just me again
Jan 29 2010, 18:13
QUOTE (just me again @ Jan 29 2010, 11:10)
Toyota recalls 1.8mill cars in europe. AYGO, iQ, Yaris, Auris, Corolla, Verso, Avensis og RAV4. models
http://www.berlingske.dk/verden/toyota-bil...er-trukket-hjemin danish
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8487984.stmBjørn
saudoso
Jan 29 2010, 18:23
This is sounding like a Tom Clancy novel now - Debt of Honor it is. Quite prophetic in a very sad and concerning way.
imaginesix
Jan 29 2010, 19:40
QUOTE (Zoe @ Jan 29 2010, 12:37)
Well, on my co-worker's BMW, the start/stop key shuts off the engine even on a short push on the button.......
Zoe
I was referring to the 767 on reversers.
Toyota recalling cars in Europe is official, Italian ANSA reporting:
http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/ec...1678650923.htmlModels are Aygo, iQ , Yaris , Auris , Corolla, Verso , Avensis, Rav4 .
SteveCanyon
Jan 29 2010, 23:28
QUOTE (imaginesix @ Jan 30 2010, 01:22)
Couldn't they have shut down the engine? Maybe it had a START button instead of a key.
I don't know about the 767 procedures, only the 747 and I can't imagine they'd be any different - From memory the procedure is to monitor the engine once you get the reverser light indication on the forward annunciator panel and if there's no other indications then you continue normally. However .... on the 747 Classic that I flew we had the great fortune of having a Flight Engineer on-board with us and he had his own panel, and another set of diagnostic gear. If his panel showed another indication of the engine starting to go into reverse then that would be cause to shut the engine down. The bloody obvious indication was quoted as being something like the aeroplane yawing, etc!
Anyway, to shut the engine down was pretty simple - You just turn the fuel off and in about half a second you had a large lump of dead metal on the wing.
Quick story of how things can be stuffed up ....
There was a incident a few years back that caused airlines around the world to check the emergency shut-down systems (the fire handle, it's called) on their aeroplanes. We checked it on one of ours on a ground run, and when the #2 engine fire handle was pulled the #1 engine shut down! And yeah, when they pulled the #1 handle #2 engine shut down.
Brilliant.
Terry Walker
Jan 30 2010, 02:16
The ultimate finding on the 767 was that there was just a 4-second window, from the moment of deployment of the reverser, for the crew to save the plane, and they had to have shut down the engine instantly to make correct use of that 4 seconds. A 747 can deploy a reverse thruster in flight safely, and it's actually been tested in-flight. The 767, with just two very big engines quite close to the wing, had to deal with extreme yaw and roll produced by the reverser plume. Way OT though.
SteveCanyon
Jan 30 2010, 04:24
QUOTE (Terry Walker @ Jan 30 2010, 12:16)
A 747 can deploy a reverse thruster in flight safely, and it's actually been tested in-flight.
Only at idle thrust I suspect and it's most certainly
not an approved procedure or indeed possible due to the ground safety relay. (A logic switch that detects if the aeroplane is on the ground, and if it is then it'll allow a heap of things to run and if in the air, not)
FWIW at least some versions of the DC-8 were designed and allowed to use reverse thrust in-flight as speedbrakes.
Terry Walker
Jan 30 2010, 11:25
The recall has been extended still further. They can't all have the same throttle pedal, surely - but they just might have a common ECU, programmed differently for the different models, and there's a bug in the ECU.
Catalina Park
Jan 30 2010, 11:34
QUOTE (Terry Walker @ Jan 30 2010, 21:25)
The recall has been extended still further. They can't all have the same throttle pedal, surely - but they just might have a common ECU, programmed differently for the different models, and there's a bug in the ECU.
At the top end of the throttle pedal is a potentiometer and it would be the problem. It could be the same unit in many vehicles.
I have heard today that some Ford Transits may use the same part as the Toyota.
I wonder who made the one in my truck?
Tony Matthews
Jan 30 2010, 11:51
QUOTE (Catalina Park @ Jan 30 2010, 11:34)
At the top end of the throttle pedal is a potentiometer and it would be the problem. It could be the same unit in many vehicles.
I have heard today that some Ford Transits may use the same part as the Toyota.
I wonder who made the one in my truck?
I have just heard that Honda are recalling the Jazz - from which build period I have yet to learn, the Child Bride's is 12 months old. Something to do with the widows - Uncontrollable Window Opening or Closing Syndrome?
I can understand your concern about the truck - with several tons of wet concrete on board it might be a case of you becoming a hardened criminal. I'll get my coat...
gruntguru
Jan 30 2010, 11:51
QUOTE (Catalina Park @ Jan 30 2010, 21:34)
At the top end of the throttle pedal is a potentiometer and it would be the problem. It could be the same unit in many vehicles.
I have heard today that some Ford Transits may use the same part as the Toyota.
I wonder who made the one in my truck?
It is not sufficient to say "oh its a faulty potentiometer". Even good potentiometers will fail. The vehicles should have fail safe systems - duplicate pot, engine shutdown or idle on conflicting inputs (WOT + brake etc)
OfficeLinebacker
Jan 30 2010, 15:47
QUOTE (Tony Matthews @ Jan 30 2010, 06:51)
Something to do with the widows
Yeah I can imagine how they would be a problem.
Tony Matthews
Jan 30 2010, 16:34
QUOTE (OfficeLinebacker @ Jan 30 2010, 15:47)
Yeah I can imagine how they would be a problem.
Thanks, OLB, I knew you'd understand! I've told her not to drive it in case a window suddenly starts to crawl open, and she inadvertantly stands on the accelerator just as Catalina Park pulls out with a full load...
Ray Bell
Jan 30 2010, 21:57
The fact remains that Toyota Australia are denying the real problem exists...
I would bet that if you went to your dealer and reported the problem, they would sit you down while they take your car away for 'inspection', give you a coffee, and then a few minutes later the Service Manager would come in and tell you it's the floor mats.
If you protest that it couldn't be, that you took note that they were nowhere near the pedal, they would call in their 'experts' from Toyota Australia's nearest capital city branch. These blokes would arrive the next day and visit you and tell you it's the floor mats.
I'd also bet that if you took the floor mats out and put them in the boot and then had the problem, they would claim you'd taken them out after the UA incident.
And it beats me why the Lexus models are excluded from this recall. Are they discreetly taking them in for changes when they come in for service and not telling the owners? After all, the Nevada incident where the family was killed was in a Lexus, wasn't it?
QUOTE (Catalina Park @ Jan 30 2010, 07:34)
At the top end of the throttle pedal is a potentiometer and it would be the problem. It could be the same unit in many vehicles.
I have heard today that some Ford Transits may use the same part as the Toyota.
I wonder who made the one in my truck?
Evidently Toyota doesn't agree with your assessment nor our collective speculation here:
QUOTE
The second recall, "Pedal," is being conducted because there is a possibility that certain accelerator pedal mechanisms may mechanically stick in a partially depressed position or return slowly to the idle position.
I poached this from the
Toyota site. FWIW the site is being updated quite frequently, the current version looks different than it did yesterday.
did toyota switch from nippondenso to bosch for these systems?
Ray Bell
Jan 31 2010, 02:21
No, Toyota don't agree with us...
But it's not 'speculation' on our behalf. We know what's going on. My sister's experience is well enough known to prove that they are simply avoiding the real issue publicly while probably working furiously behind closed doors to have a proper remedy ready. Yes, that latter bit is speculative, but logically so.
J. Edlund
Jan 31 2010, 11:49
QUOTE (gruntguru @ Jan 30 2010, 12:51)
It is not sufficient to say "oh its a faulty potentiometer". Even good potentiometers will fail. The vehicles should have fail safe systems - duplicate pot, engine shutdown or idle on conflicting inputs (WOT + brake etc)
A faulty potentiometer can't cause this sort of issue since they do have two potentiometers that detect the throttle pedal position. One main potentiometer and another one to check the function of the main potentiometer.
Toyota have so far done two separate recalls related to this issue. The first is the mats, the second is related to the throttle pedal, more specifically a friction damper in the throttle pedal assembly which under certain conditions can get stuck preventing the pedal to be returned to idle position by the return spring.
Tony Matthews
Jan 31 2010, 12:37
Apparently the Honda Jazz window thing is a fire risk - one death so far. Not on the same scale as the Toyota throttle, I know, but still, one death... It seems not to involve Jazz' made in the UK, so perhaps British-built Japanese is best!
Am I being my usual simplistic self here, or have I missed something? I assume that if it is a potentiometer problem, the pedal will return but the vehicle will keep accelerating - if it is a mechanical, linkage problem, surely the pedal will not return. If the pedals have been sticking at full open, then surely the linkage is the most likely culprit, as Mr Edlund mentions.
Ray Bell
Jan 31 2010, 14:08
My sister's experience was that the pedal had nothing to do with it...
She went around a corner, then before she hit the pedal to accelerate the car did it all by itself. Handy, in a way, but a nuisance in that it was full throttle and she was going down a quiet suburban street. The brakes wouldn't check it, she had to turn off the ignition.
On other occasions it was the same. No movement of the pedal, but the car took off anyway.
Errr... there is no linkage...
Lee Nicolle
Jan 31 2010, 23:05
Quote me from about 1985.
The biggest enemy of electronics is dirt, heat, viabration and moisture. I am going to hate being in this industry when these cars get old and go wrong.
And i was right. Too many things go wrong for these very reasons.
Though STUPID here is still in the industry but god only knows why.
QUOTE (Lee Nicolle @ Jan 31 2010, 23:05)
The biggest enemy of electronics is dirt, heat, viabration and moisture. I am going to hate being in this industry when these cars get old and go wrong.
And i was right.
No you are wrong.
- This issue is happening on new Toyotas.
- It is not being caused by 'electronics'. First recall was for mats, this second one is for CTS pedal mechanism.
SteveCanyon
Feb 1 2010, 00:13
Hey it can't be all that bad at Toyota, look what I just got on email ...
QUOTE
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(Apologies for the distraction ....)
gruntguru
Feb 1 2010, 00:46
QUOTE (SteveCanyon @ Feb 1 2010, 10:13)
I are a winnah!
Sorry Bill you blew it - premature revelation.
"For security reasons you are advised to keep your winning information
confidential till your claims is processed"
Ray Bell
Feb 1 2010, 02:01
QUOTE
Originally posted by primerNo you are wrong.
- This issue is happening on new Toyotas.
- It is not being caused by 'electronics'. First recall was for mats, this second one is for CTS pedal mechanism.
But these are only the reasons they gave for the recalls...
Bear in mind that there have been no recalls in Australia and Toymotor are saying that the pedals used here are made by a different supplier than those overseas.
Despite that there are many instances of unintended acceleration of Toymotors in Australia where floor mats are not involved. And that the company has set in place a programme of rejecting all claims of UA, claiming as a matter of course that the problem was mats in every instance.
No matter what the customer says!
In the background they are locking each car away and the customer is not seeing what they might be changing or replacing on that car before it's returned.
Ray Bell if you have a case and evidence, now is the time to take action. Strike while the iron is hot. Contact concerned government agency, international media, blogs, forums and present your case. I am not saying that it is 'impossible' to have any issues with ECU, but until it is proven there will be no attempt at remedy from Toyota's side and people's lives will be at risk. You can do so much more than complaining to Toyota of Australia.
If you (and everyone else who has genuinely experienced an ECU problem in their Toyota) do not escalate this and roll over (boo hoo, evil Toyota just dismissed our complaint) one can only conclude that these are fantasy automobile anecdotes. Everyone has a few.
Greg Locock
Feb 1 2010, 02:50
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive...e-recalled-too/Above link is a teardown of the two pedals, although they are thinking about recalling Denso ones as well. The commentary is down to TTAC's usual standard. As I remarked at a party when i was 18, the funny thing about owning a car is that it instantly turns you into an expert on cars.
Heh, I am sure it will drive some much needed traffic to TTAC (now that Whitehouse has made Farago disappear
), but that tear down does not establish or reveal much anything. Even though they claim:
QUOTE (TTAC)
Here they are, both e-pedal assemblies taken apart and examined, in our quest to understand if and what the significant differences are, and how Toyota’s possible “shim” fix would work.
At best they show the innards of two different throttle pedals to people who have not seen them before. I would love to edit that text and add their trademark 'Or Not.' after that sentence.
Excerpts:
QUOTE (WSJ)
For its part, Consumer Reports examines a single model year, 2008, and finds 52 complaints against Toyota, amounting to 41% of all complaints against 22 car brands even though Toyota represented only 16% of the market.
QUOTE (WSJ)
The first thing to notice is that SUA complaints afflict all manufacturers without a cause necessarily ever being assigned. Strange things happen in small numbers when you put millions of cars on the road. Secondly, hardly certain is whether Toyota's overweighting is significant.
QUOTE (Greg Locock @ Feb 1 2010, 02:50)
As I remarked at a party when i was 18, the funny thing about owning a car is that it instantly turns you into an expert on cars.
Good lord, has it ever been different! Perhaps it is even more so when you can retain some semblance of anonymity via the written word?
Lee Nicolle
Feb 1 2010, 07:47
QUOTE (primer @ Feb 1 2010, 00:03)
No you are wrong.
- This issue is happening on new Toyotas.
- It is not being caused by 'electronics'. First recall was for mats, this second one is for CTS pedal mechanism.
The pedal is an electronic sensor and it has a recieving unit that could be a gremlin too. as is the ECU that is supposed to interpret all the info. The mats are and were a furphy.
Ray Bell
Feb 1 2010, 13:04
QUOTE
Originally posted by primer
Ray Bell if you have a case and evidence, now is the time to take action. Strike while the iron is hot. Contact concerned government agency, international media, blogs, forums and present your case. I am not saying that it is 'impossible' to have any issues with ECU, but until it is proven there will be no attempt at remedy from Toyota's side and people's lives will be at risk. You can do so much more than complaining to Toyota of Australia.
If you (and everyone else who has genuinely experienced an ECU problem in their Toyota) do not escalate this and roll over (boo hoo, evil Toyota just dismissed our complaint) one can only conclude that these are fantasy automobile anecdotes. Everyone has a few.
The problem here is that my sister was the driver...
She knows the car tried to get her, she knows the mat didn't interfere with the pedal. But after her experience with the dealer and the two hot-shots from Brisbane, she doesn't want to waste any more time on it.
She sold the car to the local dealer and bought a RAV4 which doesn't have fly by wire. As far as she's concerned, it's all over.
QUOTE (Ray Bell @ Feb 1 2010, 14:04)
She sold the car to the local dealer and bought a RAV4 which doesn't have fly by wire. As far as she's concerned, it's all over.
I do hope your sister will never experience a car taking off on her again!
However....
not having fly-by-wire is no guarantee for never experiencing a stuck pedal. Long time ago I owned a Subaru, which liked to stuff its throttle pedal under the carpet... I finally got used to the car being stuck at WOT until I finally cut out the carpet.
The mechanical throttle linkage on one of my Cadillacs also once got stuck at half throttle (no carpet interference this time), makes for some interesting driving....
Zoe
Ray Bell: that is a shame.
Zoe: Indeed if the pedal is physically held down it does not matter whether there is a mechanical or electronic throttle. Meanwhile,
McGuire
Feb 1 2010, 15:02
A mechanical throttle linkage does not eliminate the possibility of electronic failure, either. With or without ETC, cruise control has the capability to put the throttle anywhere it wants, and has been proven responsible for cases of SUA among several manufacturers. The WSJ is full of shit about a great number of things, but at least they got this right, as quoted above: "Strange things happen in small numbers when you put millions of cars on the road."
QUOTE (McGuire @ Feb 1 2010, 16:02)
A mechanical throttle linkage does not eliminate the possibility of electronic failure, either. With or without ETC, cruise control has the capability to put the throttle anywhere it wants,
Your post reminds me of how the cruise control on the late seventies GM cars is designed; if it gets stuck in open throttle position, there's not much you can do (besides killing the engine).... After reading your post I remebered that a friend of mine was very critical of the GM cruise control and he always said "if you wanna be killed by your hearse, just use the cruise control"....
Zoe
cheapracer
Feb 1 2010, 15:59
2 things on the news in China
All RAV are being recalled and sales of certain Toyota models suspended.
Some high up Japanese Guy from Toyota blaming the "we can't control every aspect of local manufacturers quality" (read made in America) for all the problems trying to save Japanese face and probably his own.
McGuire
Feb 1 2010, 17:12
QUOTE (Zoe @ Feb 2 2010, 00:16)
Your post reminds me of how the cruise control on the late seventies GM cars is designed; if it gets stuck in open throttle position, there's not much you can do (besides killing the engine).... After reading your post I remebered that a friend of mine was very critical of the GM cruise control and he always said "if you wanna be killed by your hearse, just use the cruise control"....
Zoe
That's a new one on me. I was around at the time and know that system very well, and I am not aware of a failure pattern along those lines (unless I have forgotten, which is entirely possible). Do you know what sort of failure your friend was referring to specifically? The GM/Delco-Remy system was more elaborate than most (and thus more accurate) but they all worked pretty much the same way.
Well, I never had a cruise control *fail* on me yet, so my experience is limited. What I experience(d) is that the control loop is quite rough. I guess that's partly because of the little running my cars get (so it builds up all sorts of grime and whatever), and partly of the age of the system. We're talking a 1978 build year here.
My feeling is, that the funny little ball chain, that's running through a kind of bowden tube, could get blocked, which will result in the throttle being stuck in the position it's currently in. As the bowden "cable" (it's actually a ball chain) directly links to the throttle, there's no way of overriding it mechanically by the throttle pedal (towards idle). You could of course switch the CC off, but if it's really runaway or mechanically blocked, then tough luck.
As to what failure modes my buddy referred to, I have no idea. I only remembered his Cassandra Calls about the GM cruise control. It caused me to take a closer look at it and then hoping it will never jam when on full throttle.....
Zoe
antonvrs
Feb 1 2010, 19:59
Somewhat OT but.....
In the early '70s the CA smog equipment required on Ferrari Daytonas included a microswitch actuated by the throttle linkage which would switch the ignition to a retarded set of points in each of the 2 distributors. If the nuts that locked the lever that actuated the microswitch on the throttle linkage became loose, the lever would rotate downwards and run into a cam cover nut when the throttle was pushed. If the driver pushed HARD, like when he was racing a Pontiac GTO somewhere near Lone Pine on US 395, the lever would jump over the cam cover nut and hold the linkage somewhere near full throttle. This condition became apparent when, after blowing by the GTO at 140 plus, the driver(a doctor) got off the throttle only to find that the car was still accelerating quite strongly. He then hit the brake and the clutch simultaneously causing the engine to rev to some astronomical number so he turned the ignition off thereby locking the steering. When he turned the ignition key back on the engine lit again and overrevved some more etc. etc.
He was finally able to get the car and the engine stopped and when his heart rate came down to a reasonable level he stomped on the accelerator pedal repeatedly until it popped back up to where it belonged. He then drove on to Virginia City at a reduced rate of speed.
The next day while inspecting the car as a combination Concours judge and scrutineer for the Ferrari club Virginia City Hillclimb I noticed the lever resting on the cam cover and brought it to his attention- at which point I heard the above story.
Anton
Lee Nicolle
Feb 1 2010, 21:15
Having had the dealer fitted cruise on my Landcruiser accelarate the car now a couple of times and it frequently will not stay where it is set [+ or - up to 10k] that is cruise control failing.
Personally I do not like cruise but my somewhat geriatric body does, it stops my leg from aching over distance.
Ray Bell
Feb 1 2010, 21:25
That's what you pay for in a car like that... attention to detail!
With yet another recall announced, I wonder how long it will be before Toymotor Australia have to face the music?
I'm going to have to try and get onto them today...
Tony Matthews
Feb 2 2010, 00:08
QUOTE (Lee Nicolle @ Feb 1 2010, 21:15)
... it stops my leg from aching over distance.
The sole purpose of the motor vehicle in the first instance, I'd have thought!
Excerpts:
QUOTE (CNET)
More problems may be lurking for Toyota. Speaking at an event in San Francisco on Monday, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak waxed eloquent about a "very scary" problem with his 2010 Toyota Prius.
QUOTE (CNET)
"Toyota has this accelerator problem we've all heard about," Wozniak said. "Well, I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again--safely."
"This is software. It's not a bad accelerator pedal. It's very scary, but luckily for me I can hit the brakes," he said.
Apparently, Woz
posted this on /. too.
QUOTE (primer @ Feb 2 2010, 13:31)
Excerpts:
Apparently, Woz
posted this on /. too.
Seeing as he has the distance managing cruise option, he is probably signaling the car to start looking for something to take its speed cues off by repeatedly toggling the accel button. Even he admitted that all he has to do is brush the brake to stop the car from accelerating and disengage cruise control. Color me unimpressed by the danger of Prius cruise control. On top of that, this clown is as green as Al Gore. He has had 'many Prius models.' Considering the energy and materials that went into making each one, that isn't doing the environment any favors, nor is his appetite for a village worth of organic food.
Well I suppose he could argue that buy buying a bunch of Prii he is reducing the average fuel consumption of the collective fleet of rolling stock- assuming that his old cast off Prii are presumably replacing smoke belching '70s Mercurys. You're right though, buying a new car every year or two is really inherently an act of environmental sabotage. But then again being wealthy is inherently non-green. You can't enjoy the lifestyle of wealth in an environmentally conscious way- it's impossible, and even pointless trying.
Ray Bell
Feb 2 2010, 23:35
A couple of interesting comments in there:
QUOTE
I have the same problem with the cruise control on my car.
The way it works is that there are two buttons for the CC. There's this "feature" that when you brake and deactivate the cruise control, it remembers your last speed. Sooner or later you'll probably want to set it back on again. That's where the two buttons come in. While the "minus" button will set the CC to your current speed, pressing the "plus" button acelerate the car at an alarming rate up to your last speed.
It surprised me twice before I read the ****ing manual. Obviously most people won't do that.
It's rediculously dangerous for a totally bullshit and useless feature. It's not as if cruise control is new and exciting tech here.
In my opinion there should be stricter usability standards for cars. You could probably prevent thousands of accidents simply by requiring car radios to be more ergonomic and simple-tp-use. I shouldn't have to read a manual to tune in to a stupid radio station.
And:
QUOTE
Having an older Toyota truck and being someplace you can safely drive 85... I'd have to say this sounds like a misunderstanding of the cruise control. I have experienced the very same thing, and it can be scary, but it is NOT an ECU problem (at least mechanically, it could be argued to be an interface problem). It is an impatient driver problem. Using the same scenario you just describe imagine the following:
You are driving up a long gentle grade on cruise control at 80MPH, perhaps with a headwind. Unbeknownst to you, your throttle is already wide open as the cruise control maintains your set speed. You bump the cruise control up two notches, but you do not appear to speed up. You bump it up two or three times again and your car barely accelerates to 81... You bump it up another 5 times and creep up to 83. Now you are really impatient and hit it another 10 times with no apparent affect.
Sound familiar? Now think about what you have done, you have set the cruise control from 80 to 100, but your engine is maxed out maintaining 80-ish. As you start to crest the grade your engine has more available power and the vehicle takes off to reach the new speed you set the cruise control at, 100. As you accelerate thru 85, then 87, then 89, you bump the cruise control down and then again and again, but your set at 97 now so you continue to accelerate.
This is not a problem of the ECU "going crazy" and taking off... this is the driver losing track of what they have told the ECU to maintain. The solution is simple, pull down on the cruise control lever as many times as you pushed up. Or. more preferably, pull back on the cruise control lever to immediately cancel the set speed. Or, step on the clutch to immediately cancel the set speed. Or, step on the brake to immediately cancel the set speed.
Having a 10 year old 2WD Tacoma truck with a vacuum-actuated cruise control throttle, this can be even more fun. With the throttle wide open the actuator is at full vacuum and can take a couple seconds to release when cruise control is canceled. Having new Prius with "drive-by-wire", the cancel effect should be almost instantaneous.
Neither my Toyota truck nor the Prius are speed demons. Yes you can get them both up past 100MPH (OK.. so Ive only had mine to 97), but neither has the power to maintain that speed up grade. You can always ask the vehicle to do more than possible at the moment, it will happily oblige when the power later becomes available.
SteveCanyon
Feb 3 2010, 13:31
It might be contagious ...
QUOTE
Peugeot follows Toyota in car recall
Peugeot Citroen, Europe's second-biggest carmaker, is recalling some cars made with Toyota in Europe.
"For Peugeot 107s and Citroen C1s, we are going to carry out an identical campaign as Toyota," a spokesman said.
The Japanese car giant has now recalled millions of cars worldwide with faulty pedals.
Both models are made in a Czech plant, a joint venture with Toyota that assembles around 200,000 Peugeot and Citroen cars every year.
Peugeot said "under 100,000" cars will be recalled. It did not say when the recall would begin.
Safety concerns
Toyota is recalling up to 1.8 million cars across Europe, including about 220,000 in the UK, following an accelerator problem.
Rival carmaker Honda has also announced the recall of 646,000 cars globally to fix a switch defect that could cause a fire.
The Japanese carmaker said on Friday that it was not aware of any accidents resulting from the issue and that only a limited number of incidents involving accelerator pedals had been reported in Europe.
Both Peugeot models are made in Kolin, east of Prague, and are made for the the European market mainly, the Peugeot spokesman said.
The plant also makes the Toyota Aygo.
The Peugeot 107, Citroen C1 and the Aygo are essentially the same car with different styling and fittings.
The French carmaker has no other joint ventures with Toyota.
"We understand that the current situation is creating concerns and we deeply regret it," said Tadashi Arashima, the chief executive of Toyota Motor Europe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8489079.stmThey're not very clear as to what the problem is with the Peugeots though.
McGuire
Feb 3 2010, 13:50
QUOTE (Todd @ Feb 3 2010, 04:27)
Seeing as he has the distance managing cruise option, he is probably signaling the car to start looking for something to take its speed cues off by repeatedly toggling the accel button. Even he admitted that all he has to do is brush the brake to stop the car from accelerating and disengage cruise control. Color me unimpressed by the danger of Prius cruise control. On top of that, this clown is as green as Al Gore. He has had 'many Prius models.' Considering the energy and materials that went into making each one, that isn't doing the environment any favors, nor is his appetite for a village worth of organic food.
I didn't realize you were one of those class warfare types. I think it's perfectly normal for folks of his station to buy a new car every year. If he bought Lamborghinis or Veyrons like his peers, that would be ok in your estimation?
J. Edlund
Feb 3 2010, 15:51
QUOTE (Lee Nicolle @ Feb 1 2010, 08:47)
The pedal is an electronic sensor and it has a recieving unit that could be a gremlin too. as is the ECU that is supposed to interpret all the info. The mats are and were a furphy.
The pedal has two electronic sensors which are directly connected to the ECU. It is very unlikely that both sensors fail in such a way that the car run away.
The mats have been confirmed as the cause in at least one lethal accident.
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