I don't know if it warrants a thread but according to this http://ferrarif1forum.com/2009/10/29/exclu...10-f61-preview/

2010 Alonso/Massa (Alonso = #1 driver)
2011 Alonso/Kubica

is all but a formality.


Massa wasn't such a bad driver, why all the big plans to "fire" him already after he is just coming back from injury?

(Not a bash please, just this is the policy that is rumoured and is quite a big step by Ferrari as for whatever reason if they are going about turning over the whole Massa/Kimi line-up in two steps.)

It is the opinion of one blogger, it should not be taken as fact

If they wanted rid of him that'd not have re-signed him for this year.

Truth is, Massa is great value.

my prediction for 2011 would be alonso/vettel. definitely agree that massa is probably gone after his current contract is up in 2010.

If this bit is true why would he want to stay?

Conversely, if that bit is true, why would Kubica want to join?

It won't happen, this is pure speculation, I think by 2011 Nicolas Todt will be Ferrari team principal given his success managing ART and Massa is his boy so Alonso will be told that him and Massa are equal and to deal with it

Does make you wonder.

Alonso wont have the guts to face Vettel.

I still can't exactly understand why were they so desperate to get rid of Kimi...

he's about to face massa, and that takes some guts

its gonna be tough for massa as alonso will be coming in as a clear #1 with all the privileges that come with that status.

Ferrari will not put Alonso against Kubica, that's why they let Kimi go, they didn't want Kimi and Alonso.

Kubica may go to Ferrari after Alonso leave, but they'd get Vettel most probably.

Well there are only a couple of championship contending teams each year and way too much talent to fill them at the moment, hence why Kubica will be driving for a midfield team next season. With Alonso, Massa, Hamilton, Kimi, Vettel, Barichello and Button on the grid as WDC or runners up it really is a numbers game at the moment. Kubica would be wise to take a #2 seat at Ferrari, at least he'd be getting a chance for race wins.

Well, what was his alternative?

McLaren - no chance
Red Bull - filled
Brawn - not interested
Renault - another season like this?

a five-year deal with Santander. FIAT's in far worse shape than Honda, BMW, or Toyota, and there's no way di Montezemolo is going to admit that he dropped a guy who won a WDC for Ferrari in order to secure financing.

I think it was more of a fact that Alonso didn't want to go anywhere else. Hence this comments from the past year. How many offers did he get in the 09 pre season? Everyone bar Marc

wtf?

Few points, based on what I've read so far:

1. Vettel has a contract with Red Bull through the 2011 season, with an option for 2012. I don't see him leaving until after the 2011 season. He's got everything he needs at Red Bull for now: a great designer (Newey), top engineers, full support from the team, etc.. Red Bull is going nowhere but up for the foreseeable future, and that's why Vettel signed an extension.

Don't get me wrong; Ferrari is certainly going to take a run at them as soon as they get a chance. I saw a report on PlanetF1 that they, McLaren, Brawn, and Toyota already offered him a seat for 2011 before he signed the extension with Red Bull. But Vettel won't be with any other team until 2012 at the earliest.

2. Ferrari aren't going to just dump Massa. He's way too entrenched a figure at Ferrari right now. He's very popular inside the team, he has relationships with nearly everyone (including guys who work on the other driver's side of the garage), and he's beloved by the Tifosi. Just dumping him if he hasn't given them a reason to do so will risk bringing down the team. Massa's proven he can contend for a World Championship, and he'll be given the opportunity to do so alongside Alonso just as he was given the opportunity to do so alongside Kimi. Massa will only be dumped if:

a) He doesn't perform well enough to have a new contract; or

b) He and Alonso instigate a turf war within the team, and the only solution is that one of them has to go. Not resigning Massa will be easier, obviously, than buying out Alonso's multi-year (and presumably very expensive) deal.

The last option may well happen, but we'll have to wait.

3. IF Massa goes down, Kubica looks like the guy in line to take his seat. BUT he MUST perform well this year. He looked very disinterested at times this year when the car was poor, which was most of the year. Heidfeld's beaten him two of the three years they were teammates, including this year, so he needs to really step up to the plate even if he gets another dog. If the experience with Kimi is any indication, Ferrari isn't going to put up with guys who go through streaks of disinterest.

If it's not Kubica, I think Ferrari will hire a seat-filler for a year and take a run at Vettel for 2012. But they're going to have a lot of company.

Why would Ferrari let go of Massa all he did was finish 3rd 4th 2nd and help Kimi to a WDC and Ferrari win 2 WCC just like Kimi who finished 1, 3, 6 helping Ferrari win a wdc and wcc. Ferrari thinks strange! Massa is too good of value.

Compared to Rubens, Massa is not doing fine.

And latelly, Massa has being a trouble maker.
Massa is acting with Alonso just like he did with Schumy: There is no #1 think and I can finish ahead of him if I'm faster.
Time told him that he wasn't and accepted submission, becoming Schumy's little brother.

Let's see how Massa fares along Alonso.

I really like Massa and believe that he is capable of winning the WDC. If Ferrari are considering sacking him, then 2010 will be a crucial year for him. Ferrari should try and make a proper F1 car for starters and then worry about their drivers. Alonso and Massa is a good enough combination.

Massa is good, but IMO not of the skill of 5-6 other drivers in F1 right now. Massa gets results with good qualifying, but if qualifying doesnt go well he often fails to move forward.

It's just a rumour coming from the Spanish media (who else).

Ferrari would never pair someone like Vettel with Alonso-Kubica,on the other hand,is good friends with Alonso and they would get along very well-on paper,at least. Besides,with all the speculation surrounding Renault,RK may well be looking at less dodgy pastures beyond 2010..


You're right about the FM thing,however: from the looks of it,Felipe has just been given a grace year to race because Ferrari didn't want to be seen as ungrateful wretches that dropped an injured driver,which would've made them rather unpopular. (more so than they are,now? Had to ask!)

Edit: KR,RK,KK-confusing lot.

I think Alonso will stomp Massa in 2010 and I think Ferrari knows that. Massa seems a nice guy - a team player and all that, but he's just not dominant World Champion material...

Ferrari need a rough backup plan, incase massa isnt upto snuff for whatever reason, or theres a big fight with him and alonso

same old same old. i don't know how often i have read that now on this forum over the years: massa will be trounced by kimi, massa just isn't championship material etc... fact is, he would probably be champion if it weren't for singapore, fact is also he was more than a match for kimi raikkonen. felipe is STILL underrated and will be fully capable to step up to the challenge of giving alonso, who is without doubt one of the very best, a hard time. actually i believe very few on the grid are capable of matching massa.

Raikkonen was lucky to win a Championship. Massa was unlucky to not win a Championship. Neither is really World Championship material...

Massa is becoming a political problem.

Since Little Todt is the manager of Massa, Ferrari can not simply get rid of Massa.
I think the back up plan is transfering him to Toro Rosso - or other - in a deal with engines.
Or ART GP goes F1 with Ferrari support.

Massa also is organizing several Fiat based racing series in Brazil: open wheels and touring [gran punto berlina].

It's not "why do", it's "why would". Your source is extremely subjective on all topics, and it seems unfounded.

I see no reason why Massa would quit Ferrari. He has done a good job for them. Unless there is some fuss between the drivers, which is the only thing that springs to mind at the moment.

Oz and Silverstone 2007?

Montreal 2008?

Ok, so at Silverstone and Montreal, he qualified well. But he was pushed to the back and had to overtake his way through the field. He did just that in both cases and had fabulous races.

Massa definitely belongs at least in the top-6 drivers in F1. No question about that.

It'd be funny if Kubica turned out to be not as close to Alonso as Massa.

1. Massa has always been political. The whole time 2007-2009, he was getting close to the team, the engineers and mechanics, the fans, etc.. He even said he was good friends with members of Kimi's garage. He knew Kimi's weakness was that he is the "show up and drive" type who doesn't necessarily care much for relationships with anyone other than maybe the race engineer and that members of his side of the garage would be less inspired to give their all for Kimi when Massa is making them a priority. Now, he's fired the "opening salvo" to Alonso in marking his territory and questioning the legitimacy of a very proud and emotional driver's accomplishment, and he will continue to be very political with Alonso as a teammate.

Schumacher taught him well.

2. Jean is no longer with Ferrari. Thus, the Todt name will have no influence on team decisions, especially in light of the apparent power shift within Ferrari back to THE Italians.

3. Massa won't just be dumped. He'll have to give them a reason to dump him, either with unsatisfactory performance or participating in a turf war with Alonso.

My guess is that there will in fact be an epic turf war. Ferrari will just not resign Massa in the end to save lots of money.

It would be even funnier if Massa beats Alonso, which I think is a real possibility.

Maybe this is what Massa has to do to finally earn the respect he deserves.

A championship is a championship. You either win it or you don't.

Championships don't just happen to drivers. F1 is the toughest challenge for a driver in the world. One must have pre-requisite level of skill as a driver to win one, even in the best car with the best of luck. Anyone who wins a championship thoroughly deserves it and proves that he is championship material.

For sure.

Massa has always been very quick. He just made a lot of errors early in his career. He's corrected those and worked very hard to round himself as a driver.

Before his injury, I would actually say that he was the driver of the year up to that point. He did a great job with a F60 that really wasn't very up to it.

This is Ferrari,however: they can dump their drivers and then come up with a reason,if they had to. IMO,Massa loses out whatever happens at Ferrari: if he doesn't manage to beat Alonso,they'll use that as an excuse to dump him for Kubica (a driver they've already flirted with this year-clearly he's at the top of their list); if Massa does indeed beat Alonso,the Spaniard will start moaning again and FM will be dumped to appease him.


The only way out is if Massa becomes the champion,next season.

As for Todt,Raikkonen was his choice-not Alonso. Even if there's any truth to the FIArrari nonsense,this time Ferrari are in for a rude shock.

"After the disappointing 2009 season Ferrari is willing to re-install a system that is similar to that of the Schumacher era a policy Ferrari have been both loved and criticized for – both for leaving and implementing. Everything will be built around one superstar. Will let you debate on who that is going to be but it’s not hard to imagine. "

It's actually good that Kimi was fired from Ferrari with Santander's money. Because Kimi would have been a lapdog for Alonso.

Poor Massa, he's going to have to play 2nd fiddle to Alonso

Massa can't become champion, Ferrari will 100% focus on Alonso next year.

Why should they want to dump Massa? And why should they want to have Kubi instead. Doubt that he is a better driver.

Besiedes Massa is the perfect Ferrari driver and he loved by the mechanics and the rest of the team. They won´t dumb him

IMO Ferrari smallest problem are it´s drivers. This apllied for this year (okay if you look at Kimi and Massa and not at Fisico and Badoar ) and will also count for last year. (if there are no personal problems)

Isn't it obvious? They sacked Kimi for not being better than Massa and what else can you do with a driver that is quite on the level with a sacked driver.

You guys are forgetting that Massa might never drive F1 race again. He has a carbon plate intalled in his skull, for christ sakes a carbon plate!!!

Actually AFCA is helping Astro1, so it is not just some blogger.

I am thinking that Ferrari is fearing that Massa is indeed not getting back to grips and are already making preperations for it. However, i strongly doubt it will be Kubica.

I am expecting Vettel to come in 2011 or 2012.

The thing I love about Ferrari is all this holding hands, we are all a big family, blah blah, love-in type stuff that constantly got spewed forth this year every time one of the drivers, including MS, opened their mouth.
Next thing Kimi is shown the door with a, don´t let it hit you on the way out, and now now Massa?
What´s that all about?
Are they really that shallow in Maranello?

I doubt there is any truth in this at the moment. maybe if massa can't recover from his accident we will see some talks...at the moment I think nobody is trying to dump him

i doubt they can easily find a driver that quick and as consistent as he has been in the last 2 years

For sure Massa is fast.
But he will NEVER be a WDC. He just havent got what it takes. Always whining about something,he is too fragile.
AND HE HAS NEVER WIN A RACE IF NOT LEADING IN THE FIRST CORNER,what a true racer, eh

Missed the 2008 season then, did you?

I don't see Ferrari wanting to dump Massa.

If he performs, he'll keep his seat. But in case he doesn't Ferrari are just exploring alternatives, a natural thing to do.

Hell, the same goes for Alonso. Not that I think it will happen, but if he doesn't meet the expectations we could see a Massa / Kubica line-up in 2011

For sure he was fast in Malaysia 2008

90% of the world pop wanted him out of Ferrari after that race