The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board > McLaren

undersquare

Nov 1 2009, 20:38

QUOTE (Wouter @ Nov 1 2009, 20:08)

Daimler is not a car brand (anymore) - not a German one, at least (there is/was an English Daimler, though). Daimler was the name of the person who founded what is now the Mercedes brand, and he sold his cars under his own name at first. After a car named "Mercedes" (a Spanish girls name) won a race, every paper referred to it as a "Mercedes" instead of the proper make, "Daimler". For marketing reasons, Daimler promptly named all of his cars Mercedes and after the merger with Benz this became Mercedes-Benz (though again the name Mercedes was the one that stuck). The company was still named Daimler though, then Daimler-Benz and much, much later Daimler-Chrysler. The Benz family wasn't happy their name was dropped from the company, and now it's called Daimler AG after Chrysler was cut loose again. The cars continue to be named Mercedes-Benz, though, with the obvious exception of the Smart brand.

Yes you're quite right, it seemed a bit odd that's all, normally McLaren people go out of their way to promote the Mercedes brand, kers etc., I can't remember them mentioning Daimler before.

mkay

Nov 1 2009, 20:41

QUOTE (Wouter @ Nov 1 2009, 15:14)

A relationship works both ways, that's logical (unless you want it to end soon). Both sides have to give and take.

Anyway, Mercedes won both WDC and WCC this year with Brawn. I agree that longterm McLaren offers better chances of succes, but it is not exactly "being nowhere".

I suspect/hope that the second driver will now be known soon. The uncertainty regarding Mercedes seems to have stalled things.

Problem is, I doubt they are going to have a better return on investment with Brawn.

At face value, the move looks pretty smart, but that's it. If I were Mercedes, I'd wait to see their performance in 2010 to see if 2009 was a fluke year or not.

It's easy to crown BGP, but their car was entirely produced and designed by Honda, using Honda's money. And a lot of it. Brawn's personnel tried to improve the car but they failed miserably (see Brawn's summer slump).

Fortunately for BGP, the fundamentals of the cars are great so they shouldn't suffer too much, but if McLaren/Ferrari and Renault wake up, then I wouldn't bet my money on BGP for a repeat.

ERICTOPF1

Nov 1 2009, 21:09

Regarding the team mate of LH I agree that it will be a German driver but my thought is that it will be Timo Glock.

His manager said that in a few days he will announce his new team and it will be a surprise!!!!

Ans (just joking) what better way to reward him for the last turn in Brazil in 2008

Wouter

Nov 1 2009, 23:02

QUOTE (mkay @ Nov 1 2009, 21:41)

At face value, the move looks pretty smart, but that's it. If I were Mercedes, I'd wait to see their performance in 2010 to see if 2009 was a fluke year or not.

Yes, and it looks a bit like Daimler is now indeed thinking just that, hedging its bets for the moment. If McLaren proves in 2010 they are better than Brawn, there may not be a problem anymore.

QUOTE (mkay @ Nov 1 2009, 21:41)

It's easy to crown BGP, but their car was entirely produced and designed by Honda, using Honda's money. And a lot of it. Brawn's personnel tried to improve the car but they failed miserably (see Brawn's summer slump).

Brawn's personnel = Honda's personnel though, minus the employees that had to be layed off. It's true though that the conditions that led to the 2009 supercar aren't really there for 2010, as Honda/Brawn did indeed spend lots of resources on this car that they don't have anymore. The surprise effect of the double diffuser is also gone now.

QUOTE (mkay @ Nov 1 2009, 21:41)

Fortunately for BGP, the fundamentals of the cars are great so they shouldn't suffer too much, but if McLaren/Ferrari and Renault wake up, then I wouldn't bet my money on BGP for a repeat.

Red Bull is also no fluke though, I'd say. Mclaren does not seem to take them lightly, rightly so.

ERICTOPF1; most people think Glock is bound for Renault. Which could be a surprise depending on your perspective, I suppose. Anyway, Glock is a good race driver, wouldn't be the worst guy to get though not the best either.

Arion

Nov 2 2009, 03:30

James Allen doesn't think it's a truce meeting, Mercedes will off load their 40%, and Ron and Mansour Ojjeh are looking for investors while negotiating with Mercedes on the price of the buyout. It makes sense to me. Mercedes don't need two teams in F1. The statements on partnership they put out is pretty vague, it mostly just means Mercedes will stay on as an engine supplier.

ATM_Andy

Nov 2 2009, 07:09

QUOTE (grunge @ Nov 1 2009, 19:36)

thanx
another coupla questions if yer still around

QUOTE

1.are the recent upgrades weve seen from mac going to be sunbstantial help for development of the mp4-25 considering MW mentioned it as a radical new design

Yes very much so.

QUOTE

2.the reason for narrower front is the excessive rear tire wear this year..why not for wider rears instead of narrower fronts..ive heard the reason for this is that bridgestone done have the right tools right now to build wider rears..that doesnt seem logical to me at all..could u elaborate

You'll get a far more sensible weight distribution with narrower front tyres. Going with narrower fronts, rather than wider rears, will keep corner speeds down.

QUOTE

3.the reason the movable rear wing idea has been scrapped from the regulations(yes that didnt work this year,but next year was supposed to have movable rear wings(albeit manually),automatid front wings and both their movement degrees were increased to 10 as compared to 5 degrees this year)

It was an FIA idea that was touted along with budget caps, and scrapped at the same time.

femi

Nov 2 2009, 07:39

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Nov 2 2009, 08:09)

Yes very much so.

You'll get a far more sensible weight distribution with narrower front tyres. Going with narrower fronts, rather than wider rears, will keep corner speeds down.

It was an FIA idea that was touted along with budget caps, and scrapped at the same time.

Hello Andy, I have just read James Allen views on the current Mclaren / Mercedes relationship.
He wrote the following:

QUOTE

On a business level a lot is being done here in Abu Dhabi. Mercedes has its entire board here, as does Brawn GP. The Abu Dhabi investment people have been very active and there was some suggestion that a deal might be announced regarding Aabar, which owns 9% of Mercedes, taking a controlling interest in Brawn. The deal is on and it will set Brawn up as a top team for the foreseeable future.

QUOTE

Ron Dennis is here in the paddock for the first time since the start of the year. He is raising money for his road car project and working with his partners Mansour Ojjeh and Mumtakalat to buy out Mercedes’ shares in the team. But finding a price is difficult. And the galling thing for McLaren is that once they pay the money to Mercedes it will then go straight to Brawn to but the controlling interest and make them an even more formidable competitor.

When asked why he had not said much about Mclaren producing their own F1 engines, he responded:

QUOTE

I was quiet because I want to try to get accurate information first. My sense from this weekend is that they are not going to do their own engine and that they would like to use the Mercedes until the end of the current engine formula, which is end of 2012. Contract with Merc is to end 2011…

When asked if he thought Mercedes would be producing their own F1 engines, he replied:

QUOTE

No I do not. I think they will use Mercedes until the end of 2011 and would like a little longer than that, but I cannot see them building an F1 engine at the same time as buying out Mercedes 40% shareholding and building a new road car.

He seems to have a handle of what's going on everywhere behind the scenes in F1.
My questions is; what is the general mood back at Mclaren and are there any worries?

thx.

the full details are here under "The final day of the season section" and comments

KiloWatt

Nov 2 2009, 07:41

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Nov 2 2009, 09:09)

Yes very much so.
....

You'll get a far more sensible weight distribution with narrower front tyres. Going with narrower fronts, rather than wider rears, will keep corner speeds down.
....

It was an FIA idea that was touted along with budget caps, and scrapped at the same time.
....

Hey Andy. As a matter of interest, do your colleagues know that you're feeding us bits of info? Hey, now that I think of it, do you send your messages from your office PC?

bogi

Nov 2 2009, 07:43

Bstone said that they have equipment for producing narrower tyers, and for bigger rears they need to buy whole new equpiment. And decision was made.

femi

Nov 2 2009, 07:50

QUOTE (KiloWatt @ Nov 2 2009, 08:41)

Hey Andy. As a matter of interest, do your colleagues know that you're feeding us bits of info? Hey, now that I think of it, do you send your messages from your office PC?

This is a stupid question and post.

Arion

Nov 2 2009, 07:51

QUOTE (bogi @ Nov 2 2009, 07:43)

Bstone said that they have equipment for producing narrower tyers, and for bigger rears they need to buy whole new equpiment. And decision was made.

I have to admit I haven't been following the regulation changes, wider rear tyres in 2011?

argiriano

Nov 2 2009, 08:00

QUOTE (ItisI @ Nov 1 2009, 17:20)

Someone mentioned it already, the revolutions / evolutions on the MP4-24 were rediculous (as in fast), every race there was something fundamentally new, diffusers / chassis / bodyworks / wings / and the list is long ... McLaren has one of the best development facilities as we seen this year, what was the 'B' version worth in secs? About 2 seconds? And still McLaren brought new parts, nothing is good enough, nothing is fast enough.

I'm proud to be a McLaren fan.

MP4-24, and hail MP4-25!

As I understand McLaren gained 2,8 seconds speed developing MP4-24, compared to 1 second from BGP001. That`s outstanding development, witch I hope the team can easily translate to MP4-25.

KiloWatt

Nov 2 2009, 08:03

QUOTE (femi @ Nov 2 2009, 09:50)

This is a stupid question and post.

What, exactly, is wrong with it? I'm just interested if they know. As in (imagine work office):

Colleague: "Hi Andy"
Andy:"Hi Jeff"
C: "Good race, hey"
A: "You bet"
C: "Those pesky forumers still hounding you for info of our invisible air box?"
A: "Hehe, they never stop, do they?"
C: "Yeah they sure don't. What'd you tell 'em"
A: "No, it's not invisible"

You see? No bad intentions.

Now, would you mind explaining to me why the hell you jumped on me like that? You can go though all my posts with a fine toothed comb. Every single one is reasonable. Talk less and think more next time.

bogi

Nov 2 2009, 08:06

QUOTE (Arion @ Nov 2 2009, 08:51)

I have to admit I haven't been following the regulation changes, wider rear tyres in 2011?

No, it was more economic to produce narrower front tyres than bigger rears. They have equpiment for easy transition. There is bstone interview on autosport.

femi

Nov 2 2009, 08:28

MP4-24 vs MP4-25

I am sure this has already been posted on the MP4-24 thread.

Here is an extract from the MW comments:

QUOTE

"Perhaps more important still is that work on next year's car is already going very encouragingly - it's already quicker than the current car.

"So there's every reason for us to be confident we'll be able to continue to develop and improve it significantly between now and the beginning of the 2010 season."

How are they able to compare the 2 cars knowing that there is no refuelling, no KERS and different front tyre widths next year?

airwise

Nov 2 2009, 08:29

I think the work done at Woking this season has been remarkable - I just hope there is less need for such urgency in 2010. Hopefully no one will get the jump that Brawn, Williams and Toyota did last year.

With the loss of KERS and engine equalisation, there seems to be a lot of work in order to catch the likes of Red Bull and even Brawn over the winter - the one bright thought being that no team on the grid has shown the ability to out develop the opposition that Mclaren has. Out of interest, who is heading up the design team for the MP4-25?

Anyway, here's to a successful and less stressful 2010 campaign. I look forward to the return of red five.

bogi

Nov 2 2009, 08:30

They probably have corrected aero parameters, and then do some comparation work. No need to worry about suspension and that stuff.

grunge

Nov 2 2009, 08:52

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Nov 2 2009, 12:09)

Yes very much so.

You'll get a far more sensible weight distribution with narrower front tyres. Going with narrower fronts, rather than wider rears, will keep corner speeds down.

It was an FIA idea that was touted along with budget caps, and scrapped at the same time.

thanx a bunch andy

ItisI

Nov 2 2009, 08:58

QUOTE (bogi @ Nov 2 2009, 09:06)

No, it was more economic to produce narrower front tyres than bigger rears. They have equpiment for easy transition. There is bstone interview on autosport.

Dont think it will be B-stones after 2010

, who is going to be the supplier after 2010?

The Ragged Edge

Nov 2 2009, 09:56

QUOTE (ItisI @ Nov 2 2009, 08:58)

Dont think it will be B-stones after 2010

, who is going to be the supplier after 2010?

Either Goodyear, Michelin or Pirelli.

maverick69

Nov 2 2009, 10:17

QUOTE (airwise @ Nov 2 2009, 08:29)

I think the work done at Woking this season has been remarkable - I just hope there is less need for such urgency in 2010. Hopefully no one will get the jump that Brawn, Williams and Toyota did last year.

With the loss of KERS and engine equalisation, there seems to be a lot of work in order to catch the likes of Red Bull and even Brawn over the winter - the one bright thought being that no team on the grid has shown the ability to out develop the opposition that Mclaren has. Out of interest, who is heading up the design team for the MP4-25?

Anyway, here's to a successful and less stressful 2010 campaign. I look forward to the return of red five.

I think that McLaren will be just fine. It's obvious that the aero and chassis was highly comprimised by the KERS package - it's just that McLaren somehow reduced that comprimse.

On a side note, I wonder if the 25 will be influenced by the RB5, the Brawn, or a new concept altogether?

bond

Nov 2 2009, 11:04

Whitmarsh: 2010 McLaren quicker than 2009 car

"Perhaps more important still is that work on the MP4-25 is already going very encouragingly - it's already quicker than the MP4-24 - and there's every reason for us to be confident that we'll be able to continue to develop and improve it significantly between now and the beginning of the 2010 season."

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/11/02/...-than-2009-car/

Modern Lover

Nov 2 2009, 11:16

One and a half days and already +120 posts. At this tempo it will be a part-time job keeping up with the thread

jjcale

Nov 2 2009, 13:31

QUOTE (bond @ Nov 2 2009, 11:04)

Whitmarsh: 2010 McLaren quicker than 2009 car

"Perhaps more important still is that work on the MP4-25 is already going very encouragingly - it's already quicker than the MP4-24 - and there's every reason for us to be confident that we'll be able to continue to develop and improve it significantly between now and the beginning of the 2010 season."

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/11/02/...-than-2009-car/

How can he tell??

Owen

Nov 2 2009, 13:32

QUOTE (The Ragged Edge @ Nov 2 2009, 09:56)

Either Goodyear, Michelin or Pirelli.

With the financial downturn, what about recut Hancooks?

King Six

Nov 2 2009, 13:36

You wouldn't think the '10 spec cars would be faster than the '09 spec. The cars are going to be slightly bigger, minimum weight goes from 605Kg to 620Kg (which is the main difference).

So considering that, you'd think an '09 spec with a qualy's worth of fuel would outpace a '10 spec with a qualy's worth of fuel (1 or 2 laps)

It would be quite a damn impressive achievement if the teams can make a '10 spec car with faster lap times than '09 spec. Maybe, just maybe on the low downforce circuits due to the thinner front tyres, engine improvements (how much can they change despite the engine freeze?) etc..

hunnylander

Nov 2 2009, 13:38

QUOTE (jjcale @ Nov 2 2009, 15:31)

How can he tell??

Simulations and wind tunnel data.

teejay

Nov 2 2009, 13:40

Lets just hope its faster then everyone elses 2010 cars and forget this year

Owen

Nov 2 2009, 13:41

QUOTE (jjcale @ Nov 2 2009, 13:31)

How can he tell??

Based on simulations (computer models) I guess.

meddo

Nov 2 2009, 13:42

Current estimate is that the cars will be slower primarily at cornering speed due to thinner fronts. But, the real question is by how much can any given team improve aerodinamically, thus negating effect of thinner tyres. And my guess is that Martin Whitmarsh has taken into account next year¨s regulations, and via CFD, tunnel testing and this year testing at the latter part of the season he can with certainity say that 25 is faster than Silver Donkey. Which means that aero department has done fine job, and they are not stopping there, like last year.

jjcale

Nov 2 2009, 13:43

QUOTE (hunnylander @ Nov 2 2009, 13:38)

Simulations and wind tunnel data.

Was the problem with the car this year due to incorrect simulations and wind tunnel data or did others simply do a better job of generating downforce within the 09 rules?

...if it is the former you will understand why I am a bit sceptical.

kar

Nov 2 2009, 13:47

QUOTE (jjcale @ Nov 2 2009, 13:43)

Was the problem with the car this year due to incorrect simulations and wind tunnel data or did others simply do a better job of generating downforce within the 09 rules?

...if it is the former you will understand why I am a bit sceptical.

I think the problems with the 2009 car were down to a fundamentally stuffed up aero philosophy.

Made worse by the diffuser nonsense and having to lug KERS ballast around. Another thing to remember too, McLaren are a highly data driven company. When they made the move from Michelin to Bridgestone they had reams of data to pump into their simulators and modelling tools.

For 2009, they didn't have that backlog of data, and I think that really hurt them compared to other teams who have a slightly less sophisticated if not maybe more flexible approach.

I expect then, for McLaren to produce a pretty mighty car for 2010. Unless they have to excessively gimp their engine.

hunnylander

Nov 2 2009, 13:51

QUOTE (jjcale @ Nov 2 2009, 15:43)

Was the problem with the car this year due to incorrect simulations and wind tunnel data

That was only layman's speculation, bullshit.

The car was underdeveloped and slow.

The Ragged Edge

Nov 2 2009, 13:54

QUOTE (jjcale @ Nov 2 2009, 13:31)

How can he tell??

Aero downforce is measured in points, and the numbers coming back from the windtunnel and the CFD programs, is tell him so.

ItisI

Nov 2 2009, 13:56

QUOTE (jjcale @ Nov 2 2009, 14:31)

How can he tell??

I guess the computer simulations are with this years data, for example ‘flow vis’ , adjusted and 'fine tweaked'.

teewoods

Nov 2 2009, 15:20

QUOTE (hunnylander @ Nov 2 2009, 13:38)

Simulations and wind tunnel data.

The same method he proclaimed about the MP4-24.

I'd rather MW just keep quiet. I like the guy but he seems to love his own voice and cant keep quite for a second.

TheArmchairCritic

Nov 2 2009, 17:15

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Nov 1 2009, 19:23)

Traditionally it's whoever wins the McLaren Autosport BRDC award.

Don' t teams have 3 days of testing? So presumably Sims, Di Resta and Paffett will drive. Are there any regulations as to what car they are allowed to use?

ItisI

Nov 2 2009, 18:15

QUOTE (teewoods @ Nov 2 2009, 16:20)

The same method he proclaimed about the MP4-24.

I'd rather MW just keep quiet. I like the guy but he seems to love his own voice and cant keep quite for a second.

Do you know what McLaren still has up its sleeve? Do you know wether McLaren had shown all its jokers in its last race? ... No you dont, so you no clue what so ever.

grunge

Nov 2 2009, 20:26

RB confident of an even stronger 2010

"If you reflect on the season for us, the damage was done in the first third," Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner told AUTOSPORT.

"I think in reality, probably the double diffuser had a big impact on that. Brawn GP made hay while the sun shone and also had great consistency and reliability – and we lost too much ground in the first phase of the championship.

"I think since Istanbul, we have outscored every team. As I say, the damage was done early on. We've developed the car continually through the season, and every member of the team in Milton Keynes can be very proud of what they have achieved this year

One of Red Bull Racing's first priorities in the next few days will be finalising its engine deal for next year – as it continues to chase a Mercedes-Benz tie-up.

If that does not happen, though, the team could yet remain with current suppliers Renault or switch to Cosworth.

"We really need to come to a conclusion, which I am sure will be done imminently," he said. "We need to start optimising the car around a specific power plant, but we will certainly not be ignoring the success we have achieved with Renault."

TheArmchairCritic

Nov 2 2009, 20:27

QUOTE (grunge @ Nov 2 2009, 20:26)

RB confident of an even stronger 2010

"If you reflect on the season for us, the damage was done in the first third," Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner told AUTOSPORT.

"I think in reality, probably the double diffuser had a big impact on that. Brawn GP made hay while the sun shone and also had great consistency and reliability – and we lost too much ground in the first phase of the championship.

"I think since Istanbul, we have outscored every team. As I say, the damage was done early on. We've developed the car continually through the season, and every member of the team in Milton Keynes can be very proud of what they have achieved this year

One of Red Bull Racing's first priorities in the next few days will be finalising its engine deal for next year – as it continues to chase a Mercedes-Benz tie-up.

If that does not happen, though, the team could yet remain with current suppliers Renault or switch to Cosworth.

"We really need to come to a conclusion, which I am sure will be done imminently," he said. "We need to start optimising the car around a specific power plant, but we will certainly not be ignoring the success we have achieved with Renault."

AMuS reckons they have agreed a 1 year deal with Renault.

Edit for Source:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/tra...0rr3Wf_2PsprFjg

grunge

Nov 2 2009, 20:34

domenicalli while replying to a question

Well, the confidence comes from the fact that we don't see any loophole in the regulation that can be considered, I would say, legal. Now things are legal full stop. No discussions and we can look ahead always.

We also did the choice that Ross [Brawn] did with Honda two years ago, to concentrate all the efforts into the new project.I think we did something different to McLaren was because our car was structured so as to not to develop the double diffuser. It was blocked, and that is why we said we don't have to do work here, because it will not carry on next year. That is why, looking at the numbers we have in the wind tunnel, I am positive now. With my feet on the ground - but for sure positive.

and how is that different from mac?.mclaren didnt start off with a DD either.

Obi Offiah

Nov 2 2009, 20:42

QUOTE (grunge @ Nov 2 2009, 21:34)

domenicalli while replying to a question

Well, the confidence comes from the fact that we don't see any loophole in the regulation that can be considered, I would say, legal. Now things are legal full stop. No discussions and we can look ahead always.

We also did the choice that Ross [Brawn] did with Honda two years ago, to concentrate all the efforts into the new project.I think we did something different to McLaren was because our car was structured so as to not to develop the double diffuser. It was blocked, and that is why we said we don't have to do work here, because it will not carry on next year. That is why, looking at the numbers we have in the wind tunnel, I am positive now. With my feet on the ground - but for sure positive.

and how is that different from mac?.mclaren didnt start off with a DD either.

I think Stefano is basically saying that the design of the MP4-24 aero philosophy at the rear, was such that it more easily allowed the adoption of the DD whereas the F60 didn't. Testing limits probably prevented them creating a totally new chassis.

MaxFan1

Nov 2 2009, 20:48

I am just shocked that McLaren is letting go of KERS. People just assume you can't have good aero AND KERS at the same time. McLaren has shown how competitive you can be when you have both. Hamilton was 0.5 second faster at Abu Dabhi FUEL CORRECTED.

McLaren have gone too soft. F1 is a dog eat dog world where you want to extract the maximum from the regulations. Somehow I don't think Ron would have capitulated so easily had he been around.

f1rules

Nov 2 2009, 20:50

QUOTE (grunge @ Nov 2 2009, 21:34)

domenicalli while replying to a question

Well, the confidence comes from the fact that we don't see any loophole in the regulation that can be considered, I would say, legal. Now things are legal full stop. No discussions and we can look ahead always.

We also did the choice that Ross [Brawn] did with Honda two years ago, to concentrate all the efforts into the new project.I think we did something different to McLaren was because our car was structured so as to not to develop the double diffuser. It was blocked, and that is why we said we don't have to do work here, because it will not carry on next year. That is why, looking at the numbers we have in the wind tunnel, I am positive now. With my feet on the ground - but for sure positive.

and how is that different from mac?.mclaren didnt start off with a DD either.

its probably about, rear crashstructure, and gearbox design

grunge

Nov 2 2009, 21:01

QUOTE (Obi Offiah @ Nov 3 2009, 01:42)

I think Stefano is basically saying that the design of the MP4-24 aero philosophy at the rear, was such that it more easily allowed the adoption of the DD whereas the F60 didn't. Testing limits probably prevented them creating a totally new chassis.

no i know thats what hes referring to..i was making the point that iwhile we know very little about the complexities involved in both their aero designs,i dont think mclaren had an easier job integrating the dd into the car as compared to ferrari...
ferrari simply made a decision and stopped the development there..mclaren carried on

TheArmchairCritic

Nov 2 2009, 21:08

QUOTE (MaxFan1 @ Nov 2 2009, 20:48)

I am just shocked that McLaren is letting go of KERS. People just assume you can't have good aero AND KERS at the same time. McLaren has shown how competitive you can be when you have both. Hamilton was 0.5 second faster at Abu Dabhi FUEL CORRECTED.

McLaren have gone too soft. F1 is a dog eat dog world where you want to extract the maximum from the regulations. Somehow I don't think Ron would have capitulated so easily had he been around.

KERS with twice as much fuel would surely result in a too rearward weight distribution. I mean 150kg(perhaps more) of fuel, 25kg of KERS not to mention the Weight of the engine all behind the driver. At the start of a race that would be a nightmare.

MaxFan1

Nov 2 2009, 22:21

QUOTE (TheArmchairCritic @ Nov 2 2009, 21:08)

KERS with twice as much fuel would surely result in a too rearward weight distribution. I mean 150kg(perhaps more) of fuel, 25kg of KERS not to mention the Weight of the engine all behind the driver. At the start of a race that would be a nightmare.

Rearward distribution is an advantage during starts. McLaren are too quick to give up the advantage they have. I am almost hoping that they don't have a good car next season just to make them realise how useful KERS is and how it has been made a escape goat.

ashnathan

Nov 3 2009, 06:11

QUOTE (MaxFan1 @ Nov 3 2009, 08:21)

Rearward distribution is an advantage during starts. McLaren are too quick to give up the advantage they have. I am almost hoping that they don't have a good car next season just to make them realise how useful KERS is and how it has been made a escape goat.

You are seriously the most clueless person on this board. And im disgusted you actually support mclaren. jesus.

TurboF1

Nov 3 2009, 06:38

QUOTE (MaxFan1 @ Nov 2 2009, 17:21)

Rearward distribution is an advantage during starts. McLaren are too quick to give up the advantage they have. I am almost hoping that they don't have a good car next season just to make them realise how useful KERS is and how it has been made a escape goat.

Owen

Nov 3 2009, 07:00

QUOTE (f1rules @ Nov 2 2009, 20:50)

its probably about, rear crashstructure, and gearbox design

It was about the positioning of the gearbox. Putting a proper DDD in the Ferrari involved fundamental (and therefore time consuming and expensive) changes to the back end of the car, it could not be integrated easily given how the gearbox was situated.