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mclarensmps
QUOTE (werks prototype @ Jan 16 2010, 10:06) *
McLaren and other Brit F1 teams working on tech for British MOD military contracts. Lets hope it is a two way relationship that benefits the MP4-25 in particular. smile.gif

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/M...s=searchresults


That is depressing news down.gif
frown.gif
maverick69
QUOTE (The Big Guns @ Jan 16 2010, 17:11) *
That is depressing news down.gif
frown.gif


Why? confused.gif
Buttoneer
Because instruments of death are pretty depressing things.
jee
At least they could build the undistructable tank for Kimi now.
maverick69
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ Jan 16 2010, 17:28) *
Because instruments of death are pretty depressing things.


They sure are. But in the end, due to the nature of Human Beings, they effectively save more lives than they take. Just look at the A-Bomb for example.

Waaayyyyy offffffff topic btw smile.gif

Back on.... Anyone have any ideas on gearbox developments? I say this because the system used with KERS had to be rather "beefy" due to the extra torque being transmitted through it.
werks prototype
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ Jan 16 2010, 17:28) *
Because instruments of death are pretty depressing things.


This certainly isn't a unique situation for McLaren though. Nearly all automotive companies obviously have a history and/or future in the defence industry. Mercedes, Fiat (and specifically Ferrari), Toyota, Honda, BMW, Rolls Royce, Saab etc etc. I think it is notable because usually the tech stream flows the other way, down as it were to the motorsport industry, carbon fibre etc. It is unusual for it to work the other way.
mclarensmps
QUOTE (werks prototype @ Jan 16 2010, 09:47) *
This certainly isn't a unique situation for McLaren though. Nearly all automotive companies obviously have a history and/or future in the defence industry. Mercedes, Fiat (and specifically Ferrari), Toyota, Honda, BMW, Rolls Royce, Saab etc etc. I think it is notable because usually the tech stream flows the other way, down as it were to the motorsport industry, carbon fibre etc. It is unusual for it to work the other way.


Oh it is definitely not unique, but I am disappointed.
werks prototype
Let us hope that the McLaren MP4-25 rapidly becomes a deadly weapon in the hands of Hamilton and Button. There back on contextually sensitive topic! smile.gif To be honest I didn't think todays news warranted a seperate thread of its own, however I do lament the fact that there isn't a general McLaren thread where we can discuss McLaren, the drivers, the season, a little bit of the history, related McLaren corporate news and of course the MP4-12C development since all those topics ultimately relate to McLaren F1, as it is their entire reason for being. Ho hum.
femi
QUOTE (werks prototype @ Jan 16 2010, 19:18) *
Let us hope that the McLaren MP4-25 rapidly becomes a deadly weapon in the hands of Hamilton and Button. There back on contextually sensitive topic! smile.gif To be honest I didn't think todays news warranted a seperate thread of its own, however I do lament the fact that there isn't a general McLaren thread where we can discuss McLaren, the drivers, the season, a little bit of the history, related McLaren corporate news and of course the MP4-12C development since all those topics ultimately relate to McLaren F1, as it is their entire reason for being. Ho hum.


You can create one you know...
Owen
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Jan 16 2010, 12:52) *
This article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80927 made me think about who Mika Häkkinen is contracted to as an ambassador/PR-man, McLaren or Mercedes? It would be cool to see him and Michael together in commercials.

If I remember right, Hakk is an ambassador for Mercedes and Diageo.
argiriano
QUOTE (dabrasco @ Jan 16 2010, 17:44) *
I think Mclaren makes FI gearboxes and other things of that nature biggrin.gif

Absolutely!

QUOTE
For the moment the five-year deal is for Mercedes-Benz engines, plus McLaren gearboxes and hydraulic systems and the kinetic energy recovery system (KERS) that is currently being developed by Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines and McLaren Racing. In addition Force India will "have access to the McLaren Group's network of bespoke suppliers".


full text on McLaren-ForceIndia deal
----

In last couple of days I think about the influence of Lewis to the new car - MP4-25, and how it suits Janson`s style?
I read an interview with Lewis, where he talks about the development of MP4-24, and how he understands what was wrong with the car (not until the race in Barcelona) and give to engineers concrete information, witch took to the Nurburgring upgrade. After that Lewis alone, was responsible for a single part of the car, that helps the team to be very competitive in the last couple of races, after Spa. He made a joke, that he nearly autograph that part, but the point is - if Lewis made so strong input on the MP4-25, how it suits to Janson? Is it really driving style so important, and how could Janson cope with that, because we all know, that both of McLaren drivers has different styles?
undersquare
QUOTE (argiriano @ Jan 17 2010, 09:33) *
In last couple of days I think about the influence of Lewis to the new car - MP4-25, and how it suits Janson`s style?
I read an interview with Lewis, where he talks about the development of MP4-24, and how he understands what was wrong with the car (not until the race in Barcelona) and give to engineers concrete information, witch took to the Nurburgring upgrade. After that Lewis alone, was responsible for a single part of the car, that helps the team to be very competitive in the last couple of races, after Spa. He made a joke, that he nearly autograph that part, but the point is - if Lewis made so strong input on the MP4-25, how it suits to Janson? Is it really driving style so important, and how could Janson cope with that, because we all know, that both of McLaren drivers has different styles?


I never saw that, how interesting, do you remember where you saw it?

On the car suiting each driver, I feel sure it will be OK for Jense, but if (for example) they can make it faster at the expense of some stability then they will, knowing Lewis can drive it while Jense will have to detune it a bit. Just guessing of course, what mean is that Lewis will be their main focus - as he's made sure of already - if they're considering the driver at all, but Jense will be 'included'. Jense arrived too late to affect the basic design anyway, of course, but they'll be using him in the simulator to make sure the setup window covers what he needs.
argiriano
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jan 17 2010, 12:33) *
I never saw that, how interesting, do you remember where you saw it?

Yep, it was on this month Bulgarian issue of F1 Racing, but I can`t find it on the English version, even though 90% of the content is the same. The article was named: "The Real Lewis" from Bradley Lord, where he talk about the personality of Lewis, his life, his conections with the family and the team, his work, and in particular the development of MP4-24, and the whole 2009 season.
Oh, i find some of it in here - enjoy it! wink.gif
RodrigoL
QUOTE
“I spend a lot of time with my aerodynamicists, questioning them, and I’m sure they look at me and go, ‘He’s just a driver, what’s he talking about?’” smiles Lewis. “But I have a proven understanding of the engineering of my car. This year, I was responsible for one of the upgrades that brought us three points of downforce in Spa. We didn’t really perform that weekend, but it stayed on the carfor the rest of the year and it helped. It was something I forced and got put on the car, and it was better, and it was great. You know, I was going to put my signature on it...”


Lewis, when will you learn....this quote alone has a potential 20 pages of bashing ammo. wink.gif ambivalent.gif
Anomnader
QUOTE (RodrigoL @ Jan 17 2010, 11:17) *
Lewis, when will you learn....this quote alone has a potential 20 pages of bashing ammo. wink.gif ambivalent.gif



Whereas if it was MS and Alonso saying the exact same thing those same bashers would be praising it. It says more about the bashers then it does the driver.
Galko877
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Jan 17 2010, 13:20) *
Whereas if it was MS and Alonso saying the exact same thing those same bashers would be praising it. It says more about the bashers then it does the driver.



Thing is MS would never boast like this, even if he could.

Plus he makes it sound like that particular upgrade was his engineering work, which I highly doubt since he is not an engineer. Most probably he just told his opinion about it after using it, which is all that drivers can do.

This comment is definitely up there with Alonso's 6 tenth comment.
RodrigoL
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Jan 17 2010, 11:20) *
Whereas if it was MS and Alonso saying the exact same thing those same bashers would be praising it. It says more about the bashers then it does the driver.


Alonso's 0.6s rant had terrible reception. And quite deservedly too, for belittling his own engineers' efforts.

I have to applaud Hamilton though, at least he made a good justification of his claim. up.gif
Anomnader
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Jan 17 2010, 11:24) *
Thing is MS would never boast like this, even if he could.


as I said it says more about the bashers. You see boasting, cause you want to justify your hate, I see happyness and pride that he was able to develop a part and also prove some of the engineers wrong he was just a brainless driver.
Galko877
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Jan 17 2010, 13:28) *
as I said it says more about the bashers. You see boasting, cause you want to justify your hate, I see happyness and pride that he was able to develop a part and also prove some of the engineers wrong he was just a brainless driver.



You are wrong. I don't hate Hamilton. I actually pretty like him and would like him even more if he would be a little less arrogant and boasting.
f1rules
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Jan 17 2010, 12:24) *
Thing is MS would never boast like this, even if he could.


exactly. There are the ones who feel they need tell, and there are the ones that dont feel the need. The biggest are mostly the ones that dont tell.
That said, im not a hamilton basher. His skills on track are amazing, and congrat to him if he helped develop this part.
How good hamilton is in helping with development, we will only know if he shifts team, as mclaren would never say anything bad about him.
Schumacher and alonso are more proven in this respect. They are respected up and down the paddock.
undersquare
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Jan 17 2010, 11:24) *
Thing is MS would never boast like this, even if he could.

Plus he makes it sound like that particular upgrade was his engineering work, which I highly doubt since he is not an engineer.


There are many differences between LH and MS. It's easy to pick some to suit your agenda, it would also be very easy to pick some to make Michael look bad wouldn't it? Maybe all the drivers ought to be the same? Or say nothing in public and leave us bored, like Michael?

Lewis says the part was "something that I forced", not that it was his engineering work. And you don't have to be an engineer to have ideas, there's no reason why a driver shouldn't have some insights.

Lewis says things that others only think, and he's just as open about his mistakes. Bear in mind that they all have this inner need to drive round in circles faster than anyone else lol.gif
Mackey
So, after 2 years of stupid 6 tenths "jokes", will the forum move to the new 3 points of downforce?? roflmao.gif roflmao.gif
Raziel
According to Button, De la Rosa will shake down the Mclaren

Today Jenson Button was interviewed in the Autosport International event, and was asked about the first tests of the Mclaren team. It revealed something interesting...

His words were: "I am testing on Februrary 3; the first day is Pedro, then Lewis, and myself on the third day."

Does this completely discard Pedro de la Rosa from joining Sauber? wait a bit...

No words yet from Mclaren or Pedro.

This week is set to be an announcement week, so just have some patience.

link
BunnyK
How many tenths does a point of downforce give?
race addicted
Can't wait for the 1st of February! de la Rosa, Hamilton and then Button. These days the new cars are reliable straight out of the box normally, so it should be good seeing some 80+ laps from Hamilton and Button!
jjthekid46
the only spoiler could be the weather!!! let's hope it holds up. don't want to see another wash-out like portimao last year........
undersquare
QUOTE (BunnyK @ Jan 17 2010, 12:49) *
How many tenths does a point of downforce give?


Don't actually know but I think it has to be small so they don't spend too much time talking about point something of a point lol.gif
Bonaventura
QUOTE (Raziel @ Jan 17 2010, 13:43) *
According to Button, De la Rosa will shake down the Mclaren

Today Jenson Button was interviewed in the Autosport International event, and was asked about the first tests of the Mclaren team. It revealed something interesting...

His words were: "I am testing on Februrary 3; the first day is Pedro, then Lewis, and myself on the third day."

Does this completely discard Pedro de la Rosa from joining Sauber? wait a bit...

No words yet from Mclaren or Pedro.

This week is set to be an announcement week, so just have some patience.

link

It would have been a wise decison, if it's Pedro who has the first test
nobody would say they favour their test-driver wink.gif
The Ragged Edge
QUOTE (RodrigoL @ Jan 17 2010, 11:25) *
Alonso's 0.6s rant had terrible reception. And quite deservedly too, for belittling his own engineers' efforts.

I have to applaud Hamilton though, at least he made a good justification of his claim. up.gif


What Hamilton said is quite understandable. With all the Engineers, man hours and components it takes to make up car, there is a little piece on the MP4-24 that was a direct result of his input and it made a difference on the car. Alternatively; He gave some input, the ENGINEERS UNDERSTOOD, translated it into an additional piece onto the car and it made a performance difference. It is a drivers job to give direction to the engineers, because he is the one driving it. Conversely you also need good engineers/aerodynamicists, who can make a concept into a actual product. If Hamilton input was still minimal at this stage of his career, I would be worried.
Francesc
QUOTE (BunnyK @ Jan 17 2010, 13:49) *
How many tenths does a point of downforce give?


6 tenths stoned.gif
mstar
interesting button will be on the 3rd day for testing of the new car!

anyone know the weather reports? i hope its sunny all the tests! also why isn't lewis and jenson doing the first day??
f1rules
after reading the recent comments from Jenson, i must admit he is starting to grow on me. No bs, no excuses. And he has the balls to go up against Mr mclaren himself, brave. Im starting to like the guy.
race addicted
It's normal practice and 100% right. The test driver first, naturally, their known quantity in Hamilton on the second day, and the new driver on the third day, which is to ensure that any small hick-ups will have been ironed out, in order to strive for as much running as possible.
Bonaventura
QUOTE (mstar @ Jan 17 2010, 14:40) *
interesting button will be on the 3rd day for testing of the new car!

anyone know the weather reports? i hope its sunny all the tests! also why isn't lewis and jenson doing the first day??

equality, equality , equality
Neither Lewis, nor Jenson will have the first test
Orin
QUOTE (BunnyK @ Jan 17 2010, 12:49) *
How many tenths does a point of downforce give?


Probably not enough for him to think he can demand number one status for 2010. wave.gif
Mr.Fiasco
QUOTE (BunnyK @ Jan 17 2010, 14:49) *
How many tenths does a point of downforce give?


roughly 0.05 seconds
Bonaventura
QUOTE (mstar @ Jan 17 2010, 14:40) *
interesting button will be on the 3rd day for testing of the new car!

anyone know the weather reports? i hope its sunny all the tests! also why isn't lewis and jenson doing the first day??


Is it an advantage for Button to have the 3rd day ?
more rubber an the track
benchmark time
the team has more data for a better set up
Raincoat
QUOTE (f1rules @ Jan 17 2010, 13:40) *
after reading the recent comments from Jenson, i must admit he is starting to grow on me. No bs, no excuses. And he has the balls to go up against Mr mclaren himself, brave. Im starting to like the guy.



I agree, unlike Kimi who bailed out with excuses, obviously after being outclassed by Massa was not ready for another trashing by Lewis.
dhill39
QUOTE (race addicted @ Jan 17 2010, 08:43) *
It's normal practice and 100% right. The test driver first, naturally, their known quantity in Hamilton on the second day, and the new driver on the third day, which is to ensure that any small hick-ups will have been ironed out, in order to strive for as much running as possible.



Mclaren has been letting pedro be the first to test the car for a long time.
Owen
QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Jan 17 2010, 13:15) *
It would have been a wise decison, if it's Pedro who has the first test
nobody would say they favour their test-driver ;)

Yes. True. The first test is just a shake down to check all the systems work as they should. The reality is that it's long, hard, monotonous work. So I don't think they will be too envious.
Pingu Pi
QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Jan 17 2010, 17:01) *
Is it an advantage for Button to have the 3rd day ?
more rubber an the track
benchmark time
the team has more data for a better set up


in a way yes, but i doubt its about the rubber on the track i think its more that button can see how its done in mclaren by watchnig the other 2 aswell as any first or 2nd day test problems should be cleared up by 3rd day so he can get a good full running in which is what is best for the team so he can adjust quicker.

the data will also help for setups but i believe its purely down to the faults section as the 3rd day is more likely to have more laps. lewis doesnt need this as much as button as he'll have a general feel for a mclaren car, and the way the garage works.

i think also prefer having pedro go first, see what time he puts down and then see how hamilton and button fair next.

not long now, 12 days till we see the beast biggrin.gif
femi
QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Jan 17 2010, 18:01) *
Is it an advantage for Button to have the 3rd day ?
more rubber an the track
benchmark time
the team has more data for a better set up


I don't think people should read too much into the results or perfomance of the car or cars and drivers during the first 3-day test.
It is a brand new car and I think it would be spent mostly validating the various solutions implemented in the machine. There is going to be a lot of component evaluation, tyre management, fuel consuumption optimazation and some other data acquisition.

It is going to be a steep learning curve for the test team and drivers.

I think we should expect to see some more serious perfromance stuff towards the end of the 2nd test or later.
Owen
If you're a Mac or Button fan, this is worth a watch:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80942
Anomnader
On the launch day last year didn't Pedro do a solo test away from the other teams just to work out any glitches, are they doing anything similar this year?

With the previous years, there has being low fuel runs and heavy runs with the speed of the car being determined on the forum by its long run consistancys. With the refueling changes I'm presuming there will be less low fuels.
femi
QUOTE (Owen @ Jan 17 2010, 23:18) *
If you're a Mac or Button fan, this is worth a watch:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80942


Very positive attitude from JB, it will augur well for the team as both he and LH will be pusing the team hard and if last year is anything to go by, the team will respond.
I just hope that he will maintain this frame of mind if things get hard and over the course of the season, he will encounter these.
Owen
QUOTE (femi @ Jan 17 2010, 22:27) *
Very positive attitude from JB, it will augur well for the team as both he and LH will be pusing the team hard and if last year is anything to go by, the team will respond.
I just hope that he will maintain this frame of mind if things get hard and over the course of the season, he will encounter these.

up.gif Agreed. Hopefully he won't allow his head to drop.
bl-f1
QUOTE (Owen @ Jan 17 2010, 23:18) *
If you're a Mac or Button fan, this is worth a watch:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80942



Even if you are not a Button or Mac fan it is worth a watch. Jenson comes across as an authentic, humble and positive individual.
argiriano
QUOTE (femi @ Jan 18 2010, 00:16) *
I don't think people should read too much into the results or perfomance of the car or cars and drivers during the first 3-day test.
It is a brand new car and I think it would be spent mostly validating the various solutions implemented in the machine. There is going to be a lot of component evaluation, tyre management, fuel consuumption optimazation and some other data acquisition.

It is going to be a steep learning curve for the test team and drivers.

I think we should expect to see some more serious perfromance stuff towards the end of the 2nd test or later.

You`re right, but I think from second test at Jeres, most teams will do a race distances, because of the new rules with no refueling. They have to check tyre management above all, and observe the limits of the their cars. Maybe they`ll not do race distances, but they will definitely do long runs with full fuel tanks. If any team will do some quali runs, we will be well aware of that, because there will be huge difference in times - qualification this year will be on fumes if someone forgot that.
THE "driverider"
People forget, Jenson, Lewis, Pedro and Gary are a team. Just because Jenson is doing the third day doesn't mean they favour Lewis or vice versa.
SAFC09
Alonso has his say on Jenson's move to McLaren

''Jenson decided he wanted a new challenge, he was not absolutely happy with the new contract from Brawn, and he is going to a very competitive team. Definitely he is happy, and for sure it is not a mistake.''
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