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race addicted
QUOTE (FarrokhBulsara @ May 16 2010, 17:11) *
I call for Martin Whitmarsh's resignation!! He's destroying McLaren. I would like to know who is this dumb mechanic who left that blanket lying around in the ventilator duct. He surely deserves to be punished. I see McLaren entering a major declining phase, just like the one they had after Honda pulled out at the end of 1992. No more Merc money & the mp4-12c will not hit the markets until the summer of 2012.

McLaren don't seem to care much for their fans either. Honestly I think McLaren have lost touch with reality. They don't have the desire to win multiple titles. Their last WCC was way back in 1998 & that was a one off. Other wise you would have to go back to Senna's time in 1991. They boast of having the best tech facilities,engineers, 2 recent WDC's yet they manage mega-cockups.

Pat Fry has left the team. Maybe he knows something we don't. This team is being run very very inefficiently by a BAE expatriate. Whitmarsh will do well to note that the sole money for F1 development is coming from major sponsors like Vodafone.

ATM_ANDY WE FANS DESERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!


Oh christ. ohwell.gif
raiseyourfistfor
QUOTE (Coral @ May 16 2010, 10:34) *
This was not McLaren's finest moment. Lewis did the best he could but the car is not good enough and Lewis is starting to look and sound none too happy. I can see Lewis leaving McLaren at the end of the season unless there is a considerable improvement.


Thankfully there is nowhere for Lewis to go. He is too classy to go to a **** team like Red Bull and Alonso probably has a no-Lewis clause in his contract. Merc is a huge ?? because that team has been average for its entire existence bar last year.
markshen
QUOTE (FarrokhBulsara @ May 16 2010, 16:11) *
I call for Martin Whitmarsh's resignation!! He's destroying McLaren. I would like to know who is this dumb mechanic who left that blanket lying around in the ventilator duct. He surely deserves to be punished. I see McLaren entering a major declining phase, just like the one they had after Honda pulled out at the end of 1992. No more Merc money & the mp4-12c will not hit the markets until the summer of 2012.

McLaren don't seem to care much for their fans either. Honestly I think McLaren have lost touch with reality. They don't have the desire to win multiple titles. Their last WCC was way back in 1998 & that was a one off. Other wise you would have to go back to Senna's time in 1991. They boast of having the best tech facilities,engineers, 2 recent WDC's yet they manage mega-cockups.

Pat Fry has left the team. Maybe he knows something we don't. This team is being run very very inefficiently by a BAE expatriate. Whitmarsh will do well to note that the sole money for F1 development is coming from major sponsors like Vodafone.

ATM_ANDY WE FANS DESERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!

Man, forget 2 wins in this year? Just be patient. We may don't have best cars, but we have best drivers. Don't give up.
Jay
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 16:16) *
Thankfully there is nowhere for Lewis to go. He is too classy to go to a **** team like Red Bull and Alonso probably has a no-Lewis clause in his contract. Merc is a huge ?? because that team has been average for its entire existence bar last year.


?... a **** team like Red Bull who have provided a HOT car for two years running, leading the WDC and WCC...
PNSD
It was a simple mistake. Costly, but mistakes often are. The important thing is that it doesnt happen again.

Button could have come alot worse. he turned the engine off, so my hope is he's kept it alive. Interestly the smoke was black and it wasnt exiting the exhausts. It was exiting from the gearbox cooler outlet and rear wing from what I saw ;-)!
peroa
It's a good car, in fact a very good car, just not here.

Keep it civil. After the race is before the race.
mclarensmps
Why is it that just because people hear a hot headed response from Lewis, it means they think he's going to leave the team?

You do realise that comms that we DON'T hear consists of a lot of swearing and bickering, right?

What we hear on the radio has NO BEARING on the relationship between a driver and the team.

The sport isn't as mickey mouse as people think it is, or the way it is presented to be.
raiseyourfistfor
QUOTE (Jay @ May 16 2010, 11:18) *
?... a **** team like Red Bull who have provided a HOT car for two years running, leading the WDC and WCC...


I said scummy... I don't know why it got censored
peroa
Yep!
These guys are pumped with adrenalin, not sitting on the sofa like the rest of us.
hulmerist
at least hamilton has gained on the championship lead from this, only 19 points behind as opposed to 21
raiseyourfistfor
QUOTE (markshen @ May 16 2010, 11:16) *
Man, forget 2 wins in this year? Just be patient. We may don't have best cars, but we have best drivers. Don't give up.


Those were flukes. You don't often see the leader crashing / spinning and having the 2nd place car win the race that way.
Wouter
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 17:16) *
Thankfully there is nowhere for Lewis to go. He is too classy to go to a **** team like Red Bull and Alonso probably has a no-Lewis clause in his contract. Merc is a huge ?? because that team has been average for its entire existence bar last year.

As if Hamilton would refuse to drive for the team with the best car for 2 years running because some (for unclear reasons) call it a **** team? However, he is under contract at Mclaren and since Vettel and Webber are both doing great, there is no need to rock the boat at Red Bull. They won't be letting Webber go while he drives like this, and Vettel is their protégé.
Jay
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 16:20) *
I said scummy... I don't know why it got censored


My bad.. apologies. In that case, I almost agree smile.gif

I don't think Lewis is on his way out of Mac, though. I really think he just needs to ride the rule change out and get back into the zone....

J
Wouter
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 17:22) *
Those were flukes. You don't often see the leader crashing / spinning and having the 2nd place car win the race that way.

China was not a fluke. Button was easily fastest of the group who didn't pit and Hamilton was easily fastest of those that did. Good enough for a 1-2, because Hamilton could also overtake those who did not pit except for Button. Mclaren clearly had the best car for the circumstances on that day.

Australia was a bit fluky, but only because Vettel had a problem.
Obi Offiah
I think far too much is being read into the radio communication between Lewis and Andy. Even in every day life sometimes under difficult, trying conditions people raise their voices and let there emotions show. Lewis wasn't abusive on the radio, he didn't curse Andy's mother or threaten to take his life. The world isn't coming to an end, I'm sure their relationship is just fine.
raiseyourfistfor
QUOTE (Wouter @ May 16 2010, 11:23) *
As if Hamilton would refuse to drive for the team with the best car for 2 years running because some (for unclear reasons) call it a **** team? However, he is under contract at Mclaren and since Vettel and Webber are both doing great, there is no need to rock the boat at Red Bull. They won't be letting Webber go while he drives like this, and Vettel is their protégé.


Webber drove for a while like this last year too, then had like 3 consecutive races with no points. He is as inconsistent as they come and I don't think even Horner is dumb enough to keep him on the team if Lewis is looking for work.
P123
QUOTE (The Big Guns @ May 16 2010, 16:19) *
Why is it that just because people hear a hot headed response from Lewis, it means they think he's going to leave the team?

You do realise that comms that we DON'T hear consists of a lot of swearing and bickering, right?

What we hear on the radio has NO BEARING on the relationship between a driver and the team.

The sport isn't as mickey mouse as people think it is, or the way it is presented to be.



Exactly. I think the main problem is that a lot of 'fans' are unable to cope with what the drivers say unless it's PR speak. We can all bemoan the drivers being robots but for some of the F1 public it would appear that that is what they wish for and any emotion expressed within the car, during a race with the adrenaline pumping, is unacceptable. Clearly they have never heard Montoya on the radio!
seahawk
the realist in me says that this was the worst circuit for the McLaren and for that a 5th place is ok. Too bad about the mistake with Jenson´s car. But we win as a team and we lose as a team. Everybody makes mistakes. Better in a race where he could have been 6th in best case, than at a race he could have won.
Azeem
QUOTE (ZooL @ May 16 2010, 14:02) *
It's stupid isn't isn't it? Lewis clearly does not get on with his new race engineer.

No idea why this silly team removes Lewis's engineer he's worked with for the past seasons and gives him a rookie race engineer.

This team frustrates me so much.

I blame Whitmarsh for everything.


My heart agrees with this, but my head says blame Lewis for getting rid of his father as his manager.

Anthony Hamiliton would have made demands of the team structure to ensure Lewis has what he needs to perform at 100% eg keeping Phil Prew - unfortunately he is only able to operate at 99.7% at the moment
Nobody
QUOTE (hulmerist @ May 16 2010, 15:21) *
at least hamilton has gained on the championship lead from this, only 19 points behind as opposed to 21


up.gif

it's history now, lets kick some bull in turkey!
FarrokhBulsara
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 15:16) *
Thankfully there is nowhere for Lewis to go. He is too classy to go to a **** team like Red Bull and Alonso probably has a no-Lewis clause in his contract. Merc is a huge ?? because that team has been average for its entire existence bar last year.


Why? What's wrong with Red Bull? They have Adrian Newey over there, who you can be rest assured will come up with extremely competitive cars for the next few years. And lest not forget Newey's enjoying his work at Red Bull, unlike at McLaren where he was treated like an area-51 scientist.

Drivers are competitive animals. Even the Late great Ayrton Senna left his beloved McLaren despite winning 5 races in his last year for the team in 1993. Lewis has won only two races in the past 15 months. Lewis leaving McLaren would be a tremendous blow for the team. They might never recover from that shock for a very long time.

Mclaren need a few cock up free races. Otherwise its going to be very tough to convince Lewis to stay on. Also note that Lewis' his own man now, his dad doesn't manage him anymore & Lewis apparently isn't comfortable with is new race engineer too.

P123
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 16:26) *
Lewis is looking for work.


Which he isn't as he's under contract.
Obi Offiah
QUOTE (The Big Guns @ May 16 2010, 16:19) *
Why is it that just because people hear a hot headed response from Lewis, it means they think he's going to leave the team?

You do realise that comms that we DON'T hear consists of a lot of swearing and bickering, right?

What we hear on the radio has NO BEARING on the relationship between a driver and the team.

The sport isn't as mickey mouse as people think it is, or the way it is presented to be.

In tennis this response would swiftly be followed by, Game, Set and Match, by the umpire. up.gif
raiseyourfistfor
QUOTE (P123 @ May 16 2010, 11:28) *
Which he isn't as he's under contract.


That is kinda why I said "if"
Hypnotise
Guys calm down,give the 25 some time its a good car,faster than the Ferrari but just not here in Monaco.We can be on top in Turkey again.After Turkey its Montreal where Hamilton is a bit of a specialist smile.gif
mclarensmps
QUOTE (seahawk @ May 16 2010, 11:27) *
the realist in me says that this was the worst circuit for the McLaren and for that a 5th place is ok. Too bad about the mistake with Jenson´s car. But we win as a team and we lose as a team. Everybody makes mistakes. Better in a race where he could have been 6th in best case, than at a race he could have won.


Exactly my sentiments, though I am a bit disappointed that we didn't gain at least A position in stops or at the start.
raiseyourfistfor
QUOTE (Hypnotise @ May 16 2010, 11:36) *
Guys calm down,give the 25 some time its a good car,faster than the Ferrari but just not here in Monaco.We can be on top in Turkey again.After Turkey its Montreal where Hamilton is a bit of a specialist smile.gif


He was also supposed to be a specialist at Monaco. Unless the car magically gets good traction Montreal will be the same as this weekend.
ButtonJ
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 15:41) *
He was also supposed to be a specialist at Monaco. Unless the car magically gets good traction Montreal will be the same as this weekend.


Montreal will be alot different, some very long straights and fast corners but Mclaren should go alot better there.

Braking will be an issue
ButtonJ
Im just wondering what Alonso's response would be if Ferrari did ever want to get Lewis onboard somewhere down the line.

wrexter
i think the 25 is a very good car.

The 25 is just as fast as the ferrari, if not faster now.

The only reason it doesnt come across well is that Red Bull are very dominant, but then again they are dominating all the other teams too.

I am keeping faith in McLaren to gain on Red Bull.

I hope the following 2 weeks will be a productive one.

I would put money on Lewis to end Red Bulls Reign.
Monad
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 16:41) *
He was also supposed to be a specialist at Monaco. Unless the car magically gets good traction Montreal will be the same as this weekend.


Montreal certainly isn't as tight as Monaco and Hamilton is almost a specialist everywhere if that is what we are talking about. Is there really a track where he doesn't put fire on that Mclaren ass? Specialist or not when you drive a bus around Monaco it's hard to win it. Fifth place was a very good resold and none could have done any better.
Monad
QUOTE (ButtonJ @ May 16 2010, 16:45) *
Im just wondering what Alonso's response would be if Ferrari did ever want to get Lewis onboard somewhere down the line.

velgajski1
I think McLaren can say WDC and WCC chances goodbye after this race. They did a real sloppy job with Button today, and car simply isn't fast on this kind of track so 5th was maximum Hamilton could get today. Lets not forget that Mercedes + Alonso were probably faster in ideal conditions. So, sad thing is - 5th is a really good (and a bit lucky) result for Lewis today.
Mika Mika
QUOTE (FarrokhBulsara @ May 16 2010, 16:11) *
I call for Martin Whitmarsh's resignation!! He's destroying McLaren. I would like to know who is this dumb mechanic who left that blanket lying around in the ventilator duct. He surely deserves to be punished. I see McLaren entering a major declining phase, just like the one they had after Honda pulled out at the end of 1992. No more Merc money & the mp4-12c will not hit the markets until the summer of 2012.

McLaren don't seem to care much for their fans either. Honestly I think McLaren have lost touch with reality. They don't have the desire to win multiple titles. Their last WCC was way back in 1998 & that was a one off. Other wise you would have to go back to Senna's time in 1991. They boast of having the best tech facilities,engineers, 2 recent WDC's yet they manage mega-cockups.

Pat Fry has left the team. Maybe he knows something we don't. This team is being run very very inefficiently by a BAE expatriate. Whitmarsh will do well to note that the sole money for F1 development is coming from major sponsors like Vodafone.

ATM_ANDY WE FANS DESERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!


The Truth - you cant Handle the truth ;) redface.gif) lol.gif
Darth Sidious
QUOTE (Jay @ May 16 2010, 15:12) *
Schumachers move was ILLEGAL

Hamiltons' engineer told him correctly.... Bad weekend for Mac, on the whole, although not too bad for Lewis.

J


Well the jury is still out on that one. Hamilton has been sold a dummy by Prew before now - Australia 2009, Silverstone 2009 when he was told to leave the strategy to the team when had they listened to him I believe he would have jumped the Heidfeld/Alonso/Kubica train, and here he could have either mugged Felipe for some bonus points or potentially could have been ass ripped by both MS and FA had he been cruising to the line. This is stuff Prew should know.

Assuming Brawn read things correctly, of course. If they didn't then I fully retract both the above paragraph and the sentence below.

If Brawn did then McLaren and Ferrari are becoming the dumb and dumber of F1, and I'm not entirely sure which is which.
jjcale
QUOTE (velgajski1 @ May 16 2010, 16:52) *
I think McLaren can say WDC and WCC chances goodbye after this race. They did a real sloppy job with Button today, and car simply isn't fast on this kind of track so 5th was maximum Hamilton could get today.


Too early to say that. Redbull failed to capitalise on their dominance in the flyaway races. They are the favourites but its still game on.... especially if the next set of upgrades are effective.
Obi Offiah
QUOTE (Mika Mika @ May 16 2010, 16:54) *
The Truth - you cant Handle the truth ;) redface.gif) lol.gif

roflmao.gif Very good.
BiH
during the radio communication what did hamilton say?. commentators were talking and didn't catch it. was he angry with the team?
Wouter
QUOTE (velgajski1 @ May 16 2010, 17:52) *
I think McLaren can say WDC and WCC chances goodbye after this race. They did a real sloppy job with Button today, and car simply isn't fast on this kind of track so 5th was maximum Hamilton could get today. Lets not forget that Mercedes + Alonso were probably faster in ideal conditions. So, sad thing is - 5th is a really good (and a bit lucky) result for Lewis today.

Mclaren is still in a good position, points-wise. Getting 5th at what is quite likely your worst track is a lot better than a DNF at one of your best tracks (Barcelona).

Canada is very different from Monaco, the long straights will play right into the hand of the f-duct and Hamilton is good on brakes. The -25 originally wasn't stable under braking but this problem seems to have been solved since Australia.
Seanspeed
QUOTE (ButtonJ @ May 16 2010, 11:43) *
Montreal will be alot different, some very long straights and fast corners but Mclaren should go alot better there.

Braking will be an issue

Its the first time we've heard about Mclaren having any problems with brakes this year.

As far as I'm concerned, it was a one-off thing, and it definitely wasn't even as bad as Vettel's in Barcelona(where there's less braking).

If this problem keeps popping up, then get worried.

I think Montreal should suit them well, but I think if Red Bull have their f-duct fucntioning by Montreal, it might not be all peaches, as Mclaren's straight-line advantage will be negated.
Henrytheeigth
QUOTE (BiH @ May 17 2010, 02:00) *
during the radio communication what did hamilton say?. commentators were talking and didn't catch it. was he angry with the team?


Eh "Its just half race and the brakes are going? You want me to race these guys or not" Or similar lol, I loved his candidness, I luv ya Lewis biggrin.gif
Jose Mourinho is Special
been 2 dismal weekends for McLaren, they screw the next one up - i think it may be out of their reach....
velgajski1
QUOTE (jjcale @ May 16 2010, 16:56) *
Too early to say that. Redbull failed to capitalise on their dominance in the flyaway races. They are the favourites but its still game on.... especially if the next set of upgrades are effective.


That's a big, big IF and it could as well be too late in season when McLaren gets to RBR level. I'm not optimistical at all about it.

Yes, point wise - this is not bad at all, but performance wise - I'm really dissapointed.
Wouter
QUOTE (Darth Sidious @ May 16 2010, 17:55) *
Well the jury is still out on that one. Hamilton has been sold a dummy by Prew before now - Australia 2009, Silverstone 2009 when he was told to leave the strategy to the team when had they listened to him I believe he would have jumped the Heidfeld/Alonso/Kubica train, and here he could have either mugged Felipe for some bonus points or potentially could have been ass ripped by both MS and FA had he been cruising to the line. This is stuff Prew should know.

Assuming Brawn read things correctly, of course. If they didn't then I fully retract both the above paragraph and the sentence below.

If Brawn did then McLaren and Ferrari are becoming the dumb and dumber of F1, and I'm not entirely sure which is which.

Good points on the earlier tensions between Lewis and his former race engineer - and that worked out pretty well anyway, most of the time!

Regarding dumb and dumber: to be fair, the FIA rules are very convoluted as usual. The problem is, when is a race considered to have finished under SC? What if the SC is expressly called in on the very last lap? I think Brawn is right but it is confusing enough!
ButtonJ
Major Upgrade will be at Silverstone.

Apart from that just minor stuff probably mad.gif
Darth Sidious
QUOTE (Wouter @ May 16 2010, 17:04) *
Good points on the earlier tensions between Lewis and his former race engineer - and that worked out pretty well anyway, most of the time!

Regarding dumb and dumber: to be fair, the FIA rules are very convoluted as usual. The problem is, when is a race considered to have finished under SC? What if the SC is expressly called in on the very last lap? I think Brawn is right but it is confusing enough!


Yeah, you're probably right. I should be less critical of the team over that, though I stand by the point if you consider Button's engine woes today.

Lights
I still like to believe Monaco suited the Renault engine over the Mercedes one, and didn't particularly suit McLaren in general, whether because of the wheelbase or not. In Turkey I expect Red Bull to be dominating again (not that they didn't in Monaco, but I think they will have a larger advantage even, like Spain), but hopefully McLaren will the 2nd strongest again. Red Bull is going to walk away with the title if they can keep current results up while Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Renault are falling over each other.
Wouter
QUOTE (FarrokhBulsara @ May 16 2010, 17:28) *
Why? What's wrong with Red Bull? They have Adrian Newey over there, who you can be rest assured will come up with extremely competitive cars for the next few years. And lest not forget Newey's enjoying his work at Red Bull, unlike at McLaren where he was treated like an area-51 scientist.

What do you mean with "treated like an area-51 scientist"? I know Mclaren doesn't have a great reputation as employer with their image of sterility, demanding perfection, uniformity and so on, but exactly what do you think caused Newey to leave?

Since Newey leaving obviously was a Bad Thing ™ for Mclaren, I'm interested in exactly what was his motivation and if maybe Dennis is partially to blame for that.
Coral
QUOTE (raiseyourfistfor @ May 16 2010, 16:16) *
Thankfully there is nowhere for Lewis to go. He is too classy to go to a **** team like Red Bull and Alonso probably has a no-Lewis clause in his contract. Merc is a huge ?? because that team has been average for its entire existence bar last year.


I so want Lewis to go to Mercedes. Brawn is sure to eventually make that team one of the best and I just have the feeling that Lewis will be happier there. He is wasting his time now at McLaren, IMHO.
raiseyourfistfor
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ May 16 2010, 12:01) *
Its the first time we've heard about Mclaren having any problems with brakes this year.

As far as I'm concerned, it was a one-off thing, and it definitely wasn't even as bad as Vettel's in Barcelona(where there's less braking).

If this problem keeps popping up, then get worried.

I think Montreal should suit them well, but I think if Red Bull have their f-duct fucntioning by Montreal, it might not be all peaches, as Mclaren's straight-line advantage will be negated.


the RB6 will never have the same straight line speed as the Mclaren, their chassis only works with high downforce levels.

QUOTE (Lights @ May 16 2010, 12:08) *
I still like to believe Monaco suited the Renault engine over the Mercedes one, and didn't particularly suit McLaren in general, whether because of the wheelbase or not. In Turkey I expect Red Bull to be dominating again (not that they didn't in Monaco, but I think they will have a larger advantage even, like Spain), but hopefully McLaren will the 2nd strongest again. Red Bull is going to walk away with the title if they can keep current results up while Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Renault are falling over each other.


I think Lewis has a decent chance to win in Turkey because that long straight is not what Red Bull need. Also it will be hot so the tires should work better.
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