seahawk
Jul 20 2010, 10:38
QUOTE (robefc @ Jul 20 2010, 11:14)
erm, ferrari?
So far they have never delivered. Apart from their own words, there is no reason to beleive they could beat the McLaren. And even a 5th place is better than a DNF. Especially if it really rains on friday and McLaren would not be able to test the EBD.
ashnathan
Jul 20 2010, 11:22
QUOTE (race addicted @ Jul 20 2010, 19:59)
Eh, obviously I was talking about the number of laps racked up from the two drivers combined.
What?? The MP4/25 is a "shite" car?! It's second best, or equal second best!
Typoooo haha my bad it was supposed to be ISNT
race addicted
Jul 20 2010, 11:23
TheArmchairCritic
Jul 20 2010, 11:33
QUOTE (seahawk @ Jul 20 2010, 11:38)
So far they have never delivered. Apart from their own words, there is no reason to beleive they could beat the McLaren. And even a 5th place is better than a DNF. Especially if it really rains on friday and McLaren would not be able to test the EBD.
Why not they can still tell by data whether there is an increase in downforce. The only effect rain might have is it may prevent any real representation of the effect the exhaust gases have on the components behind it i.e is it still warping the diffuser however with the data collected at Silverstone there shouldn't be any overheating problems.
OwenC93
Jul 20 2010, 11:49
I'm wondering if the Mercedes engine will be quite useful round Hockenheim.
bonjon1979
Jul 20 2010, 11:53
QUOTE (OwenC93 @ Jul 20 2010, 12:49)
I'm wondering if the Mercedes engine would be quite useful round Hockenheim.
Yes. It will be.
OwenC93
Jul 20 2010, 11:55
QUOTE (bonjon1979 @ Jul 20 2010, 12:53)
Yes. It will be.
Splendid.
teejay
Jul 20 2010, 11:57
Best engine, hopefully with the all new best chasis
Already have the best driver and team
raiseyourfistfor
Jul 20 2010, 12:19
QUOTE (OwenC93 @ Jul 20 2010, 08:49)
I'm wondering if the Mercedes engine would be quite useful round Hockenheim.
Yes it is.
Personally I don't think the EBD will cause McLaren any problems this week. The big problem was the deformation of the floor around the rear wheels. They will definitely fix that in 2 weeks time.
They won't really need the EBD in Hockenheim that much anyway though, because the only place where I can see it make a difference is in S3 at the Sachs and Sudkurve corners. (Possibly Nordkurve as well if RBR could take it flat out and the other teams have to lift)
They will need the EBD for traction...
McLaren just did a little Q&A phone in:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/20/whit...e-new-diffuser/QUOTE
One of the challenges is that whereas flaps, wings and various aerodynamic appendages are fairly quickly changed on a car, and you can do a back-to-back during a session, the blown diffuser is completely different floor, different heat management components and of course a different exhaust. Therefore it’s not possible to perform an in-session back-to-back. It’s quite difficult to do it even between sessions.
This is something I suspected, nice to see it confirmed.
OwenC93
Jul 20 2010, 13:41
Yeah, they might even pull the cars in 10 minutes early and put the out 10 minutes late. It wont be the end of the world.
OwenC93
Jul 20 2010, 13:48
From the f1 fanatic interview.
QUOTE
. Blown diffusers offer a bit of an engine management challenge, but that aside they are not too challenging.
Perhaps McLaren will have the retarded ignition??
hunnylander
Jul 20 2010, 14:02
QUOTE (OwenC93 @ Jul 20 2010, 15:48)
From the f1 fanatic interview.
Perhaps McLaren will have the retarded ignition??
That sentence doesn't necessarily refer to the ignition trick. It may refer to the engine cooling, which is more problematic with an EBD car.
teejay
Jul 20 2010, 14:15
If they arnt too challenging why did we fluff the first go?
TheArmchairCritic
Jul 20 2010, 14:24
QUOTE (teejay @ Jul 20 2010, 15:15)
If they arnt too challenging why did we fluff the first go?
"
I think both blown diffusers and F-ducts are not super-expensive to implement. So by Formula 1 standards and costs, it's within the means of any team to develop and exploit. Blown diffusers have got a bit of a heat management challenge, but that aside they're not too challenging."
He was referring more to resources than anything. Also he kind of answers your question as to why it didn't quite work out at Silverstone, let's not forget these updates were fast tracked.
QUOTE (CPR @ Jul 20 2010, 09:33)
McLaren just did a little Q&A phone in:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/20/whit...e-new-diffuser/This is something I suspected, nice to see it confirmed.
"We could end up dividing the drivers if there was a preference from one side of the garage to the other. If I can I will avoid that but we’ll do it if we think it’s the right way to perform."
With this quote I am confident LH will def run the Blown Diffuser.
undersquare
Jul 20 2010, 15:28
QUOTE (FSLIV @ Jul 20 2010, 15:37)
"We could end up dividing the drivers if there was a preference from one side of the garage to the other. If I can I will avoid that but we’ll do it if we think it’s the right way to perform."
With this quote I am confident LH will def run the Blown Diffuser.
Yup, no way Lewis is gonna run the old car. Though I think JB will as well, otherwise whatever driver adaptation is required he'll be losing ground.
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Jul 20 2010, 15:02)
That sentence doesn't necessarily refer to the ignition trick. It may refer to the engine cooling, which is more problematic with an EBD car.
One thing we can be sure of is they are going to give it a test. I don't think we should expect Mclaren to go out will all guns blazing on Friday, they are going to be thorough and methodical and they don't have to top the time sheets for them to know whether the package as a whole is working or expected or even better than bottom expectations. If it stays dry, second half of Friday will be very interesting with some long runs thrown in. FP3 should be a bare all.
moorsey
Jul 20 2010, 18:33
I would guess that Friday will see them run a "used" engine so that any tests they make using the retarded ignition or semi-open throttle doesn't cost them for the race engine.
QUOTE (moorsey @ Jul 20 2010, 19:33)
I would guess that Friday will see them run a "used" engine so that any tests they make using the retarded ignition or semi-open throttle doesn't cost them for the race engine.
I am not too sure about the regulations with regards to old engine usage during a race weekend. One thing we can be sure of however is Mclaren and Merc would have done these in testing back at the work houses.
FranDaMan
Jul 20 2010, 19:03
Judging by Martin's comments it seems like the hardest thing about implementing an EBD is managing the heating/deforming of the actual diffuser tray. Hopefully after FP1 and 2 at Silverstone those issues are all under control. Fingers crossed!!!
Dunder
Jul 20 2010, 19:39
QUOTE (FranDaMan @ Jul 20 2010, 20:03)
Judging by Martin's comments it seems like the hardest thing about implementing an EBD is managing the heating/deforming of the actual diffuser tray. Hopefully after FP1 and 2 at Silverstone those issues are all under control. Fingers crossed!!!
Wet or dry it is going to be a nervous Friday for all of us, I think.
Add the expected problems with the tyres and we have all the ingredients for the mood swing-o-meter to be all over the place (again) this weekend.
QUOTE (FranDaMan @ Jul 20 2010, 20:03)
Judging by Martin's comments it seems like the hardest thing about implementing an EBD is managing the heating/deforming of the actual diffuser tray. Hopefully after FP1 and 2 at Silverstone those issues are all under control. Fingers crossed!!!
No, the hardest thing about it is controlling throttle sensitivity. That's why its took Newey 7 years to re-introduce the same concept after many tries and failing.
OwenC93
Jul 20 2010, 19:45
QUOTE (ZooL @ Jul 20 2010, 20:42)
No, the hardest thing about it is controlling throttle sensitivity. That's why its took Newey 7 years to re-introduce the same concept after many tries and failing.
Was there any other attempts made?
WitnessX
Jul 20 2010, 19:55
QUOTE (femi @ Jul 20 2010, 20:36)
I am not too sure about the regulations with regards to old engine usage during a race weekend...
There is no problem in recycling old engines during free practice, indeed they all do it anyway on the Friday (use old engines), however they put in the race engine for FP3 so they can check it for qualifying. Its during qualifying the stricter "parc ferme" regulations start to apply.
QUOTE (Dunder @ Jul 20 2010, 15:39)
Wet or dry it is going to be a nervous Friday for all of us, I think.
Add the expected problems with the tyres and we have all the ingredients for the mood swing-o-meter to be all over the place (again) this weekend.
+1
race addicted
Jul 20 2010, 19:58
QUOTE (ZooL @ Jul 20 2010, 21:42)
No, the hardest thing about it is controlling throttle sensitivity. That's why its took Newey 7 years to re-introduce the same concept after many tries and failing.
BS. He didn't start trying again right after they scrapped it, and it's not
that hard to implement.
QUOTE (ZooL @ Jul 20 2010, 20:42)
No, the hardest thing about it is controlling throttle sensitivity. That's why its took Newey 7 years to re-introduce the same concept after many tries and failing.
Zool, the reason it was reintroduced was because of the 18,000rpm limit. before it, the exhaust length was set by revs and exit velocity. the change in revs has allowed longer pipes i read.
The mp4-18 had an exhaust driven diffuser also.
I hope the McLaren engineers like a challenge as the conditions don't look set to help our cause:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/intr...over-german-gp/
Obi Offiah
Jul 20 2010, 20:59
QUOTE (Owen @ Jul 20 2010, 21:55)
I hope the McLaren engineers like a challenge as the conditions don't look set to help our cause:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/intr...over-german-gp/I'm not even going to say it
Obi Offiah
Jul 20 2010, 21:02
As James Allen mentioned, if the track temp is cool on Sunday, this will probably help with trying to manage the soft tyre. On the other hand teams my struggle to get tyre temp into the hard, but in the long run this my allow the teams to manage with only one stop.
undersquare
Jul 20 2010, 21:04
QUOTE (Owen @ Jul 20 2010, 21:55)
I hope the McLaren engineers like a challenge as the conditions don't look set to help our cause:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/intr...over-german-gp/QUOTE
Engineers tell me that the hard tyre, which Bridgestone call the 199, will work in marginal temperatures, but the tricky bit is getting the fronts to work.
Sounds bad for Jense, on top of the learning the EBD in the wet.
QUOTE (Owen @ Jul 20 2010, 21:55)
I hope the McLaren engineers like a challenge as the conditions don't look set to help our cause:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/intr...over-german-gp/I am going to stick my neck out and say it won't rain on Friday for the duration of the FPs and if it does, it will be real light and hence not destructive to Mclaren's plans.
Obi Offiah
Jul 20 2010, 21:09
I hope you still have a head on those shoulders femi, come Friday afternoon.
QUOTE (Obi Offiah @ Jul 20 2010, 22:09)
I hope you still have a head on those shoulders femi, come Friday afternoon.
I am keeping everything crossed Obi. I know things can change, I live in Belgium and it is so freaking hot. Tomorrow is our national day and it rains always on this day and rain is predicted but the way the weather is, I don't buy it... I am just hoping it won't rain really and my gut feeling tells me it won't.
QUOTE (Obi Offiah @ Jul 20 2010, 21:59)
I'm not even going to say it
The swing-o-meter is bracing itself for the 'storm' ahead. It's going to be 'interesting' these next few days...
QUOTE (Owen @ Jul 20 2010, 22:22)
The swing-o-meter is bracing itself for the 'storm' ahead. It's going to be 'interesting' these next few days...
Over the year, the swing-o-meter has been upgraded with F-ducts, new aero parts, a shiny new lick of paint, and a new diffuser and floor.
End result? It swings even more violently than ever!
Obi Offiah
Jul 20 2010, 21:35
QUOTE (CPR @ Jul 20 2010, 22:32)
Over the year, the swing-o-meter has been upgraded with F-ducts, new aero parts, a shiny new lick of paint, and a new diffuser and floor.
End result? It swings even more violently than ever!
Too true
Bonaventura
Jul 20 2010, 22:07
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 20 2010, 16:28)
Yup, no way Lewis is gonna run the old car. Though I think JB will as well, otherwise whatever driver adaptation is required he'll be losing ground.
Or both run it (EBD) not
Well... my fellow maccateers!
Friday is drawing ever closer... I beg you all to embrace the mood swing-o-meter with force.
It's gonna happen.. you know it, I know it. That ol' pendulum will be swinging like never before once FP gets under way...
Enjoy the rest of your week, and let's have a crazy weekend in Germany.. Yah!
Here's to more ups than downs!
undersquare
Jul 20 2010, 22:30
QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Jul 20 2010, 23:07)
Or both run it (EBD) not
My reading of what MW said makes me >99% sure Lewis will run it. It's a weapon...
Bonaventura
Jul 20 2010, 23:29
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 20 2010, 22:30)
My reading of what MW said makes me >99% sure Lewis will run it. It's a weapon...
Who?
I hope it will be safe enough to run it on both cars,
that there won't appear any frictions between the "two sides" of the garage
QUOTE (Jay @ Jul 20 2010, 18:29)
Well... my fellow maccateers!
Friday is drawing ever closer... I beg you all to embrace the mood swing-o-meter with force.
It's gonna happen.. you know it, I know it. That ol' pendulum will be swinging like never before once FP gets under way...
Enjoy the rest of your week, and let's have a crazy weekend in Germany.. Yah!
Here's to more ups than downs!
I will toast to that.
Vegetableman
Jul 21 2010, 00:08
Someone who knows about these things needs to make a website with a McLaren swing-o-meter on it that can be voted on and reset after each gp. Maybe like a fuel gauge.
Full swing ahead!
QUOTE (CPR @ Jul 20 2010, 09:32)
Over the year, the swing-o-meter has been upgraded with F-ducts, new aero parts, a shiny new lick of paint, and a new diffuser and floor.
End result? It swings even more violently than ever!
Dalin80
Jul 21 2010, 06:52
I wouldnt worry too much about the weather yet folks, according to the BBC my little part of the midlands was meant to have had rain 10 days out of the past 2 weeks, a drop hasnt landed yet despite the occasional black cloud.
And if it does rain we probably have the best wet weather driver combination on the grid.
QUOTE (femi @ Jul 20 2010, 23:05)
I am going to stick my neck out...
You're known for that, aren't you?
QUOTE (Bonaventura @ Jul 20 2010, 22:07)
Or both run it (EBD) not
Or one of them run it and it's a disaster.
even that, I still hope they run it.
Just put the damn thing on the car, so that we can find out what's the problems. and fix it.
QUOTE (CPR @ Jul 20 2010, 21:32)
Over the year, the swing-o-meter has been upgraded with F-ducts, new aero parts, a shiny new lick of paint, and a new diffuser and floor.
End result? It swings even more violently than ever!
another thing, it has become self aware!!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.