No, it's done on laps, so Buttons retirement at the start of Monaco is 70 odd laps. Whereas Ferrari were near the end, and Red-bull have had problems like Vettels brakes, but he managed to get to the end.

James Allen did an article on it.

Yes the RB6 is indeed the fastest car ATM, but it also has weaknesses, just like the 25 has its strenghs/weaknesses too. My problem with Anderson is that he fawns all over RBs strengths, but never talks about its weaknesses. When he talks about the 25, he always goes into a critical rant about all it's weaknesses, but says nothing about it's strengths, or just downplays any strength or development the 25 has. Yes the McLaren is far from perfect, but it does deserve some fair assessment of it's strengths as well. I just think he's just too biased for a so called "journo".

AMus analysis for the rest season:

Spa
Prognose: 1. Ferrari, 2. Red Bull, 3. McLaren

Monza
Prognose: 1. Ferrari, 2. McLaren, 3. Red Bull

Singapur
Prognose: 1. Red Bull, 2. Ferrari, 3. McLaren

Suzuka (Japan)
Prognose: 1. Red Bull, 2. McLaren, 3. Ferrari

Korean Valley Circuit
Prognose: 1. Red Bull und McLaren, 3. Ferrari

Interlagos ( Brazil)
Prognose: 1. McLaren, 2. Red Bull, 3. Ferrari

Abu Dhabi
Prognose: 1. Ferrari, 2. Red Bull, 3. McLaren


Gerhard Berger sees the RedBulls far ahead for the rest of the season, the car is too superior, even if they make some mistakes.
Das Auto ist einfach zu überlegen. Die können noch soviele Fehler machen, und sind trotzdem vorne", sagt der Ex-Formel-1-Pilot
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-...mm-2217559.html

Thats risky making calls like that - doesnt allow for upgrades or reliability.

How will Alonso go late season after losing his engines early on ?

The main weakness for the RB6 is the drivers.

When was the last failure due to reliability? Im not too sure.

If Mclaren are not on the podium is Spa, we best hope a 1-2 in Monza comes our way!

I dont think it'll happen unless the Ferrari wing gets banned...

If the Red Bull wing gets banned it'll still be the class of the field i think!!!

It's just a waiting game now

We'll definitely win that one

Thedrivers are our best bet. Hamilton is the best driver in the field. If it comes to the final races he will make less mistakes than Vettel, Alonso or Webber.

wow... Mind telling me who's going to the win the WDC for the next 10 years? ;-)

I wouldnt be so quick to write of Vettel and Webber, but especially Alonso.

On what basis do you judge that he will make less mistakes than Vettel, Webber or Alonso?

With regards to Alonso, he's been in this posistion for 3 seasons, 2 of which he won. Vettel will have learnt alot last year, and so far apart from Hungary or Turkey, ive seen little error for him or Mark.

Like in 2007

This year,at the first 12 races Lewis made less mistakes than Alonso , Vettel & Webber
Don't think he's going to change his attitude

Just like in 2007? Lewis is as mistake prone as any other driver!

Anyway this is the mclaren thread, not lewis vs alonso and the rest of the field thread.

Mclaren must score heavily the next 2 races, otherwise they might as well concentrate on next year.

He's only lost the one engine, the one that they replaced in Bahrain.

Red Bull will win, no doubt. However I wonder what AMuS reasoning is behind citing McLAren as the car to have in Brazil. The bumps all the way around Interlagos will possibly make it the worst track for McLaren of the seven left this season.

2007 he was a rookie. Get back into Moe's Barney and stay away from computers, sounds like you need your medicine.

They think it, because of the long straights, and the uphill passage at the start, the F-duct and the Mercedes engine could be an advantage for McLaren over Ferrari & RedBull

The bumps make me worry, too
Singapore will be very difficult

Not that I'm any expert, but some of that analysis seems a bit...odd to me
Spa - I don't see how Ferrari are definitely going to be the best at Spa. Red Bull will almost definitely be quicker than them in S2, and probably won't be too far behind on the straights. McLaren should be competitive in S1 and S3. I think this could be one of the closest races of the year.
Korea - I think Ferrari could be pretty decent there, but thats largely a hunch as no one knows how it will fall.
Interlagos - I think McLaren will be 2nd behind Red Bull as its rather bumpy, and Red Bull seemed to be the quickest car there last year even with the uphill end to the track.

This is what The Guardian think - http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug/0...its-world-title - though they are also pretty pessimistic about McLaren's chances, only picking Monza as a McLaren track, unless it rains at the other races.

So are you implying that Alonso's, Webber's and Vettel's attitudes bring mistakes :s

I dont understand what you mean there? Alonso made 0 mistakes though 05 and 06, did he suddenly change his attitude for the later years??

Also, please list the mistakes from all 4 drivers concerned. I dont think its much between them.

Do you disagree with my post about not writing off these drivers then? Seeing as though Lewis will not "change his attitude" or are you off the belief hes a shoe-in for the WDC?

Mistakes are random.

You dont know when and how they will happen, or who will suffer from them.

It's 3 months to Abu Dhabi, all the cars will be evolving so I don't see how the races can be predicted at this stage. McLaren surely will fit a flexi front wing, refine their EBD, maybe add rake, if that takes away the diffuser stalling problem they might soften the suspension as well.

I'd say the cars staying with the characteristics they have now is the least likely thing.

i'm pretty confused about the ferrari spa thing, they have a decent engine yeah, but not as good as the mclarens and their car's been suited to tracks opposite to spa :/

I completely agree with the rest of your post but I think lewis has made the least mistakes this year of those 4 and alonso has certainly made more mistakes than usual.

Mclaren will find something , they have good chance of taking both titles so can't afford no f**k ups. We need solid drives from both drivers.

I think Ferrari have made stategic mistakes more so than Alonso driving the car has made mistakes, and he's arguably suffered alot of bad luck. Valencia for example, Silverstone with the poor FIA call...

I only speak from Lewis and this year, the RedBull pilots made enough errors so far, Alonso wasn't flawless,too
I don't write any of the top 4 drivers off, but Hamilton has been the most consistent of them so far.

But ATM McLaren has only the 3rd best car, so even if the McLaren drivers won't make any mistakes and deliver on highest level for the rest of the season, it won't be enough.

Those were bad judgment, same as the back markers in Canada were poor racecraft. The ~25 will at least be better driven than the Ferraris and RB's, if the first 12 races are anything to go by.

Alonso put himself out of quali in monaco, jump started in china and lost lots of places at the start in silverstone. Also qualified badly in Turkey.

Hamilton qualified badly in Australia...and that's about it I think.

It's been widely reported that alonso has made an uncharacteristic number of errors this season. That's not a bash, it's actually a back handed compliment.

I think mclaren have had the most consistent driver (hamilton) and the most consistent driver pairing this season. I've mentioned alonso above and obviously massa's having a pretty poor season. Both vettel and webber have also made critical errors this season.

With the exception of button's qualifying (and oz and malaysia for hamilton) they've absolutely maximised the potential of the car imo.

If the cars remains on the same performance level like they are now... which I hardly believe it... except for Singapore all are looking strange to me...

I agree with you on that. The drivers have kept it together this season really well. It bodes well for Mclaren to get the WCC. Ferrari don't have a shout for that because Massa isn't strong enough this season. So the WCC I think is between Red Bull and Mclaren. The WDC. Well, that is too close to call, and I think it will be at least 4 races before any of the 5 can be ruled out.

straight line speed, relative to the top teams, comes to mind

Fair enough. I do think Monza will be a Mclaren 1-2 though. And Brasil hasnt been Mclarens strongest race for a number of seasons. Id reckon the Red bulls will spank everybody hard there.

i think its entirely open tbh

I looked at at 3 prognosis (AMuS, Guardian, Autosport and I could do my own and we'll see who was the best in guessing), and if you mix the 3 you can get a prognosis with McLaren 4 times being at 1st out of 7.

That's interesting and may show how serious you should take them.

Good luck guys... Hope that gap to RBR can be reduced somehow.

Good to know they're back. Wish we knew exactly what they're doing!

I would bet anyway parts will be arriving at Spa over the race weekend...

http://www.planet-f1.com/news/18227/631708...a-will-be-tough

Even though, I still think red bull will win it, or be a very close second.

They use to underestimate to overdeliver, because it's better than to overestimate to underdeliver.

I think McLaren will claw back the performance they lost with the switch between the major development pathes.

Luckily 2 medium-low downforce and low drag needing power tracks are coming next, which in theory would help to grab some big points and in the meantime they can get their EBD concept car to work properly and start to skim the performance benefit of it combined with other planned updates. I'm convinced the new EBD car didn't work properly in Hockenheim, neither in Hungary. It was a kind of setback or frozing in performance level for a couple of races, but they'll get over it. 'Normal service will be resumed.'

I think Hungary already was a step forward by comparison to Ferrari because Hamilton was not that much slower than Alonso.

But Koyayashi was just as fast as Jenson. Even MS was pulling a gap over Jenson.

So it could have simply be down to Lewis doing all the work.

The cars are evolving yes, so it's impossible to say where Mclaren will be at the end of the season.

But so far, Mclaren has never been the car to beat.

That's not true - In Turkey, Canada and arguably China it's been the car to beat!

Canada was more down to Lewis.

Only Lewis was able to challenge the Red Bull at Turkey.

Jenson had problems keeping up with Nico in the wet, so the car wasn't that quick in China.

He couldn't have done it if the car wouldn't do it

Do you think the reigning world champion is a crap driver, who sinificantly underdeliver of the car's capabilities? Do you think the Red Bull and Ferrari drivers can extract the 100% of their cars's capabilities? Rubbish!

The Hungaroring is a very technical, hard to drive driver's track. Driver performances can differ more there than on average tracks. Lewis loves the track. It's no surprise he put JB into shame on it. JB did with the MP4-25, what an average driver could do with it on this track. LH did, what the track-specialists can do with that car.

Generally, considering team performances, the McLaren was shamefully bad on the track, being a title contender. The car wasn't Top3 tech there.

And Hamilton was driving the MP4-25 hence it was the car to beat???


And Hamilton was driving the MP4-25 hence it was the car to beat???


Not really he maintained a gap and passed when Nico made an error... Hamilton was alos Very Very fast - infact the MP4-25 has been very fast in the wet - maybe the stiffer wing is not affected so badly by wet conditions.

Exactly - a few pages back Andy said that there is no such thing as getting more than 100% out of the car...

http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/350061/..._win_the_title/

Whitmarsh wants mclaren to be creative

f-ducts on the wheels!

the point is, if we have two world champions in the team...and only one is able to challenge the front, with the most recent WDC unable to make a serious impression in speed... then yes, the car is not good enough. Unless, you want to argue its Jenson that is massively underperforming.... which I will thoroughly disagree with though I aint his biggest fan.

If the car has any speed close to the Red Bulls, I believe our drivers...are capable of locking out the front row with regularity.

As it is, Jenson never started in the front row, his best Q performance has been 4th. Some Lewis fans might demean Jenson all they like...but in the top 3 teams, the only other driver Id pick over dude is Fred.

So yes, while you cant scientifically get more than 100% out of a car, you can extract a higher percentage of performance from your car than your closest competitors are getting from their cars...atleast, it can seem that way...and this is why people use the term 110% etc etc. It isn't meant to be taken literally.

In general the car hasnt being good enough...its been decent but our drivers getting more out their car than esp. Red Bulls on race day is the only thing masking the performance deficiency.

But after the last 2 races, if we dont find something quick in the car, the drivers will be helpless.

Reminds me of the mass damper affair. First every effort is made to copy any performance enhancing concept, then if it's not working on your own car, bitch about it until it's banned.

Only that this season the other teams were prepared to stop bitching about the f-duct, instead they bogged down and develope their own versions, none of which workings as effectively as McLarens, some not at all. Yet apparently McLaren isn't prepared to return the favour over the flexi wings.