Grenada
Sep 11 2010, 10:46
QUOTE (Lazy @ Sep 11 2010, 11:41)
Dont think it does say that
They've just changed it AGAIN. In the first Practice report, they said Hamilton used the F-duct and now they have said he didn't. I saw it, just as Lights did, so we're not imagining it. It is so confusing because the reporters keep mis-reporting or getting it wrong. Now I don't know what is what.
hunnylander
Sep 11 2010, 10:46
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 12:34)
Throw in the benefit of testing that wing for singapore and the tracks coming up versus making 2 wings specifically for monza, I think you're right.
It's possible a new type of rear wing is coming for Singapore or later, and maybe for Abu Dhabi too (as an update package is planned to there, if they will be in the title fight then), and McLaren wanted to keep the RRA potential for them to introduce, so they had to make only one special Monza wing and they decided it to be completely F-ductless.
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 10:47
QUOTE (Grenada @ Sep 11 2010, 11:42)
You're right - they said one thing in the live commentary and totally another in the Practice Report. Nice to know one can rely on these media.
rely on your own eyes...
Button fanatic
Sep 11 2010, 10:48
Guys, did Button get traffic or something on his last laps? He did not improve his benchmark time at all....Struggling or because of the high DF setup?
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 10:48
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Sep 11 2010, 11:46)
It's possible a new type of rear wing is coming for Singapore or later, and maybe for Abu Dhabi too (as an update package is planned to there, if they will be in the title fight then), and McLaren wanted to keep the RRA potential for them to introduce, so they had to make only one special Monza wing and they decided it to be completely F-ductless.
Which would fit with other teams all making one specialist monza wing, it's just they went with an f duct one. We figured we'd double our options with a high downforce f duct and a monza specialist without it rather than put all the eggs in the middle solution - that makes sense to me...I think!
Clatter
Sep 11 2010, 10:49
QUOTE (Lights @ Sep 11 2010, 11:26)
Well it's what Autosport says. So either they're hungover, or they're right.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86580It doesn't say that in the article.
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 10:49
QUOTE (Grenada @ Sep 11 2010, 11:46)
They've just changed it AGAIN. In the first Practice report, they said Hamilton used the F-duct and now they have said he didn't. I saw it, just as Lights did, so we're not imagining it. It is so confusing because the reporters keep mis-reporting or getting it wrong. Now I don't know what is what.
As I said, it was essentially a typo and they've quickly corrected it, it happens because they get the story up so quickly, chill!
QUOTE (Clatter @ Sep 11 2010, 11:49)
It doesn't say that in the article.
it did, they changed it, no biggie
Clatter
Sep 11 2010, 10:51
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 11:32)
I would have thought higher track temps would benefit the lower downforce car relative to the higher downforce.
More downforce allows you to heat the tyres up more quickly but if the track is hot I think it could also lead to higher tyre degradation (relative to lower temps).
I imagine they're both best off using the car they've got used to and have found the set up for to be honest, lewis would probably be slower with the f duct than in the monza wing version and vice versa for button.
Besides which they might not even have time to switch, particularly if they didn't make the decisions immediately but had to look at data etc.
But a lower DF car will tend to slide more which can damage the tyres. It's been a long time since I can remember a team having such extreme setups and is going to be a very interesting race day.
Clatter
Sep 11 2010, 10:52
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 11:49)
As I said, it was essentially a typo and they've quickly corrected it, it happens because they get the story up so quickly, chill!
it did, they changed it, no biggie
Fair enough, didn't see the unedited version.
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 10:53
QUOTE (Clatter @ Sep 11 2010, 11:51)
But a lower DF car will tend to slide more which can damage the tyres. It's been a long time since I can remember a team having such extreme setups and is going to be a very interesting race day.
I know, my point isn't between higher and lower downforce it's the effect on both of higher track temperatures, relatively I think that will benefit lower downforce more with tyre degradation shifting further along the spectrum away from 'the slidely effect' and towards the 'blistering cos of heat' effect
Those two terms are copyrighted by the way!
hunnylander
Sep 11 2010, 10:54
QUOTE (Grenada @ Sep 11 2010, 12:46)
They've just changed it AGAIN. In the first Practice report, they said Hamilton used the F-duct and now they have said he didn't. I saw it, just as Lights did, so we're not imagining it. It is so confusing because the reporters keep mis-reporting or getting it wrong. Now I don't know what is what.
TheFifthDriver has confirmed Lewis is using the low downforce package. There's no F-duct on the low downforce package. He has posted a picture too showing Lewis in the F-ductless car. Then Lewis registered the higher top speeds, not Button.
It should be clear, in FP3 LH was using the low profile F-ductless rear wing and a non shark-fin engine cover. Don't mind what the news editors wrote. Sometimes they're clueless. It's easy to confuse for a layman, when the F-duct is strongly affiliated with high top speed. But it was never so simple, the F-duct is a d/f and drag switching device, not neccesarily an exceptional top speed achieving device.
Button fanatic
Sep 11 2010, 10:55
Guys, why did button did not improve his time? TRAFFIC?
Lights
Sep 11 2010, 10:56
QUOTE (Button fanatic @ Sep 11 2010, 12:55)
Guys, why did button did not improve his time? TRAFFIC?
He wasn't quick enough.
Clatter
Sep 11 2010, 10:56
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 11:53)
I know, my point isn't between higher and lower downforce it's the effect on both of higher track temperatures, relatively I think that will benefit lower downforce more with tyre degradation shifting further along the spectrum away from 'the slidely effect' and towards the 'blistering cos of heat' effect
Those two terms are copyrighted by the way!
Do the BS's blister? Been a long time since I can remember a driver complaining of blistered tyres.
Button fanatic
Sep 11 2010, 10:57
Does this confirms that we are now having more Downforce compared to red bull? As Button was the quickest through sector 2....
Grenada
Sep 11 2010, 10:58
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 11:47)
rely on your own eyes...
I didn't see it.
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 10:59
QUOTE (Clatter @ Sep 11 2010, 11:56)
Do the BS's blister? Been a long time since I can remember a driver complaining of blistered tyres.
No clue but I'm assuming tyre degradation this year has not been solely down to sliding over the surface...(I could be wrong, I'm no expert on this).
Button fanatic
Sep 11 2010, 10:59
It makes me wonder would Button be on pole with his high downforce setup....It will be more useful in the race though thats 4 sure.....
QUOTE (Button fanatic @ Sep 11 2010, 10:57)
Does this confirms that we are now having more Downforce compared to red bull? As Button was the quickest through sector 2....
Yes, with a high downforce rearwing, McLaren were exactly 9 thousands of a second faster than Red Bull with a medium to low downforce rearwing
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 11:00
QUOTE (Grenada @ Sep 11 2010, 11:58)
I didn't see it.
rely on 'posters in macca thread on autosports' eyes...
Grenada
Sep 11 2010, 11:00
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Sep 11 2010, 11:54)
TheFifthDriver has confirmed Lewis is using the low downforce package. There's no F-duct on the low downforce package. He has posted a picture too showing Lewis in the F-ductless car. Then Lewis registered the higher top speeds, not Button.
It should be clear, in FP3 LH was using the low profile F-ductless rear wing and a non shark-fin engine cover. Don't mind what the news editors wrote. Sometimes they're clueless. It's easy to confuse for a layman, when the F-duct is strongly affiliated with high top speed. But it was never so simple, the F-duct is a d/f and drag switching device, not neccesarily an exceptional top speed achieving device.
Thanks for the explanation.
Lights
Sep 11 2010, 11:01
QUOTE (Clatter @ Sep 11 2010, 12:49)
It doesn't say that in the article.
Alright then! Well, it
used to say it.
I'm glad it's clear now.
Grenada
Sep 11 2010, 11:01
hotstickyslick
Sep 11 2010, 11:01
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 11:59)
No clue but I'm assuming tyre degradation this year has not been solely down to sliding over the surface...(I could be wrong, I'm no expert on this).
It's the most prominent form of degredation this year with Canada being the best example.
Clatter
Sep 11 2010, 11:03
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 11:59)
No clue but I'm assuming tyre degradation this year has not been solely down to sliding over the surface...(I could be wrong, I'm no expert on this).
I'm sure it's not just down to sliding, but I can't remember any comments on blistering. I don't think the BS's suffer from it.
Lights
Sep 11 2010, 11:04
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 13:00)
rely on 'posters in macca thread on autosports' eyes...
I'm sorry I had it wrong, it's just what it said in the report.. and it did have a picture with Hamilton running an f-duct but ofcourse that could've been from yesterday.
Grenada
Sep 11 2010, 11:09
I still think they don't know what to do for qualifying, whether they want 2 different cars or stick with one set up.
http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/news/...TO_Italian.html
Kimiraikkonen
Sep 11 2010, 11:11
We are in very good shape to pole or catch first row.
I´m very nervous, i hope Hamilton can win here and gets some valuable points for WDC.
Problem for Webber is great news for mclaren, but he could take the pole. Vettel is very strong here.
I think Ferrari is a bit step behind us, would be great idea if they stolen points to red Bull.
Regards
Mc_Silver
Sep 11 2010, 11:19
QUOTE
McLaren confirm Lewis Hamilton - the fastest man in P3 - will race the rest of the weekend without the F-duct while Button sticks with it. It's all about driver preference. Button prefers balance of the higher-angled wing & F-duct combo while Lewis is happy to grapple with car
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 11:22
QUOTE (hotstickyslick @ Sep 11 2010, 12:01)
It's the most prominent form of degredation this year with Canada being the best example.
Canada's an awful example isn't it, I thought tyre degredation there was unique due to the type of asphalt?
In anycase, I'm not saying tyre degredation would be better on lower than higher downforce, I'm saying higher temps will reduce the advantage in this area of higher downforce, anyone agree, disagree?
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 11:24
QUOTE (Lights @ Sep 11 2010, 12:04)
I'm sorry I had it wrong, it's just what it said in the report.. and it did have a picture with Hamilton running an f-duct but ofcourse that could've been from yesterday.
No need for apologies mate, now lets look forward to the racing!
hunnylander
Sep 11 2010, 11:26
That's the way it is. The best decision they could have done. To practice the driving is very important for Monza to get the feel for good lap times, regardless of the package.
It would be too late for whichever driver to swith to a pachage what they didn't practice enough and don't feel it.
Anomnader
Sep 11 2010, 11:38
I hope we get pole, but I hope more then that to be ahead of Ferrari here.
Hypnotise
Sep 11 2010, 11:39
Why do we lose out in S3?
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 11:42
QUOTE (Hypnotise @ Sep 11 2010, 12:39)
Why do we lose out in S3?
Parabolica?
race addicted
Sep 11 2010, 11:42
For Hamilton's part it's because his car slides just a little, which is enough to lose him a few hundreths, or a tenth. For Button I think it's just the lack of top speed coming in.
Kimiraikkonen
Sep 11 2010, 11:43
Has Mclaren time in the pocket?
In 18 minutes will see...
Watched RTL.
Jenson runs F.
Lewis does'nt.
jjcale
Sep 11 2010, 11:57
... Just logged in and read the thread... havnt had a chance to watch FP today.
.. just seen that they have split between FDuct and no FDuct. Even with the jungle drums signaling this last night (And all the logic that you guys explained to me last night) I am still quite surprised. Hope it works out...
Grenada
Sep 11 2010, 12:02
QUOTE (jjcale @ Sep 11 2010, 12:57)
... Just logged in and read the thread... havnt had a chance to watch FP today.
.. just seen that they have split between FDuct and no FDuct. Even with the jungle drums signaling this last night (And all the logic that you guys explained to me last night) I am still quite surprised. Hope it works out...
I am surprised and nervous.
BinaryDad
Sep 11 2010, 12:03
QUOTE (robefc @ Sep 11 2010, 13:22)
Canada's an awful example isn't it, I thought tyre degredation there was unique due to the type of asphalt?
In anycase, I'm not saying tyre degredation would be better on lower than higher downforce, I'm saying higher temps will reduce the advantage in this area of higher downforce, anyone agree, disagree?
I tend to agree; with higher downforce you have the danger of too much heat. This might not be such a big deal straight away on the prime, but the option tires might suffer a bit.
But then, the tires have looked pretty bullet proof this year. I'm willing to bet that another wheel rim will failure long before we see one down to the canvas or blistering
ashnathan
Sep 11 2010, 12:07
lewis first lap ruined by traffic ! BAH!
Button fanatic
Sep 11 2010, 12:09
Any streams?
Why does the ferrari seem faster :S
Cmon mclaren...
BinaryDad
Sep 11 2010, 12:41
Have the Mclaren's been running their engine setting for retarded ignition during quali, so far? Given that we have an Italian director, we haven't had much on board from Macca so it's hard to tell
Mind you...lots of on board footage from Ferrari ;)
Grenada
Sep 11 2010, 13:02
Lewis got it completely wrong with his choice. I knew he did and he will make it harder for himself in the race. I'm really annoyed.
robefc
Sep 11 2010, 13:02
I'm speechless, lewis is over 2/10ths down on his q2 time which was set right at the beginning of the session...
ShadowMountain
Sep 11 2010, 13:03
QUOTE (Grenada @ Sep 11 2010, 14:02)
Lewis got it completely wrong with his choice. I knew he did and he will make it harder for himself in the race. I'm really annoyed.
Not that - Mclaren shoved him right behind a webber - rosberg train. So annoyed at them right now
Hamilton is the fastest of the top drivers down the straights. Button had to qualify ahead because he can't overtake with that car like Hamilton can.
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