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Peter Perfect

Oct 14 2010, 11:27

QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Oct 14 2010, 11:55)

Yeah but if a team has the intelligence to query a certain characteristic about the tyres and request info on, lets say the ideal suspension layout/settings, then everybody will get the info.

I'm not too keen on this transparency thing as some teams will be picking the brains of the more intelligent engineers and getting a free ride.

If they're intelligent they'll test their ideas and, if proven correct, keep the info to themselves. I don't think there'll be a huge number of questions put to Pirelli for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

trogggy

Oct 14 2010, 11:29

QUOTE (Peter Perfect @ Oct 14 2010, 12:27)

There might be some mischievous ones to put people on the wrong track.

Clatter

Oct 14 2010, 11:32

QUOTE (Peter Perfect @ Oct 14 2010, 11:01)

But surely the new tyres are essentially being optimised for the Toyota at the moment.

The tyre dimensions are set and won't change because of the Toyota aero. They are also testing on the GP2 cars.

trogggy

Oct 14 2010, 11:35

QUOTE (Clatter @ Oct 14 2010, 12:32)

The tyre dimensions are set and won't change because of the Toyota aero. They are also testing on the GP2 cars.

You wouldn't get away with copying the Toyota diffuser next year anyway.

Ferrari2183

Oct 14 2010, 11:43

QUOTE (Peter Perfect @ Oct 14 2010, 11:27)

I just used that as an example and testing will not occur as there is no in season testing. I don't like this transparency idea at all. There must be other ways to ensure that Ferrari don't develop a special relationship with Pirelli. They already have a mandatory weight distribution next year.

ATM_Andy

Oct 14 2010, 12:02

QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Oct 14 2010, 12:43)

They already have a mandatory weight distribution next year.

Only for Qualifying.

ATM_Andy

Oct 14 2010, 12:07

QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Oct 14 2010, 11:55)

It's going to be managed like the SECU data share works, so any development/data requests are open to all the teams. Specific Suspension/Transmission design will not be covered.

femi

Oct 14 2010, 12:58

QUOTE (Gareth @ Oct 13 2010, 10:13)

Prior to Valencia/Silverstone, this was very much the theme of the season. The McLaren had seemingly taken to its updates the best of the 3 top teams. Whilst they had started out the slowest of the 3 (close to/at Mercedes pace - and look where they went) they had moved up to second, were seemingly right on Red Bull's tail and had blown past Ferrari. The suggestion then was that McLaren's approach to pre-season, of data gathering and understanding their car overall rather than just getting the quickest setup, had seen them slowest out of box but best placed to develop.

Then the EBD came along, and came off, and came on again and all that seemed to go out of the window.

To me that suggests that either McLaren hit it luckier than their rivals with their updates early season and the general theme that built up around that was completely wrong (probably my favourite explanation) or that the EBD changed the fundamentals of the car. All that data gathered, the base line that was built up and thoroughly understood pre season, became useless.

Mclaren has also been extreemly unlucky with the weather on the weekends that are crucial to their car development testings and when that was not an issue, a driver binned the car!

Ferrari2183

Oct 14 2010, 13:01

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Oct 14 2010, 12:07)

It's going to be managed like the SECU data share works, so any development/data requests are open to all the teams. Specific Suspension/Transmission design will not be covered.

Thanks

as65p

Oct 14 2010, 13:04

QUOTE (femi @ Oct 14 2010, 14:58)

Mclaren has also been extreemly unlucky with the weather on the weekends that are crucial to their car development testings and when that was not an issue, a driver binned the car!

"a" driver? IIRC it was invariably the same driver...

Mika Mika

Oct 14 2010, 13:26

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Oct 14 2010, 13:02)

Only for Qualifying.

Really?!

Maybe well see cars with a seperate fuel tank to make the WD correct for quali - and when the race fuel is put in the whole WD ballance may change to be suitable for the tyres then??

equinoxuk

Oct 14 2010, 14:11

LH Q&A:
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2010/10/11385.html

JB Q&A:
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2010/10/11386.html

DanardiF1

Oct 14 2010, 15:15

QUOTE (Peter Perfect @ Oct 14 2010, 11:01)

But surely the new tyres are essentially being optimised for the Toyota at the moment.

Not really... they might not work on the Toyota at all, but the data Pirelli garner from running them, and the feedback (positive or otherwise on the actual car performance) from Toyota is more valuable than just making the car quick on them. Pirelli know they have to make an 'impartial' tyre, and pure performance data isn't going to help them as much as their own perimeters.

PNSD

Oct 14 2010, 15:16

QUOTE (ATM_Andy @ Oct 14 2010, 13:02)

Only for Qualifying.

Surely the ideal or a well designed car the WD will not change as fuel goes down. So the balance would be the same.

Then again, as the fuel weight decreases the aerodynamic balance will move around.

Ferrari2183

Oct 14 2010, 16:37

I read Bob Bell is linked with a potential move to Mclaren or Force India...

Mika Mika

Oct 14 2010, 17:09

QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Oct 14 2010, 17:37)

I read Bob Bell is linked with a potential move to Mclaren or Force India...

Replacing Pat Fry??? I think thats an upgrade for McLaren quite frankly....

Ferrari2183

Oct 14 2010, 17:19

QUOTE (Mika Mika @ Oct 14 2010, 17:09)

Replacing Pat Fry??? I think thats an upgrade for McLaren quite frankly....

Only if you consider the recent Renault's very successful.

Dunder

Oct 14 2010, 17:31

QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Oct 14 2010, 18:19)

Only if you consider the recent Renault's very successful.

Not really. Different environment, different budget constraints.
Quite aside from that, Pat Fry's last effort was the 24!

hunnylander

Oct 14 2010, 17:47

QUOTE (Mika Mika @ Oct 14 2010, 19:09)

Replacing Pat Fry??? I think thats an upgrade for McLaren quite frankly....

Bob Bell to a chief designer? He was already technical director since 2003 and managing director before the leave at Renault, not a designer. He was aerodynamicist back in the past anyway.

The managing director at McLaren is Jonathan Neale.

Current technical directors of McLaren:

Paddy Lowe - Engineering Director
Neal Oatley - Design and Development Director

I seriously doubt he would revert himself to a designer.

Regarding the AMuS news, the bigger chance is Force India for him. That team is quite gutted currently regarding technical directors.

chrisblades85

Oct 14 2010, 17:49

Could to lotus I reckon

Ferrari2183

Oct 14 2010, 18:20

QUOTE (Dunder @ Oct 14 2010, 17:31)

Not really. Different environment, different budget constraints.
Quite aside from that, Pat Fry's last effort was the 24!

True but the 24 turned out to be a race winner. Eeeeeeeventually.

Dunder

Oct 14 2010, 18:41

QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Oct 14 2010, 19:20)

True but the 24 turned out to be a race winner. Eeeeeeeventually.

As did the R28!
Offhand I don't think that Bob Bell will end up at McLaren although I believe he would be a good acquisition.

Tombstone

Oct 14 2010, 20:23

QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Oct 13 2010, 12:34)

Organise me a day pass at MTC please.

You do know what that individual actually did, don't you?!

Ferrari2183

Oct 14 2010, 20:33

QUOTE (Tombstone @ Oct 14 2010, 20:23)

You do know what that individual actually did, don't you?!

I'm a tifoso. I'll do it for the team...

klyster

Oct 15 2010, 07:31

I think you're a closet McLaren fan to be honest....well, your posting history would suggest such a possibility

Ferrari2183

Oct 15 2010, 07:39

QUOTE (klyster @ Oct 15 2010, 07:31)

I think you're a closet McLaren fan to be honest....well, your posting history would suggest such a possibility

You wash your mouth. Expletives aren't allowed on this board.

Just because I don't bash Mclaren doesn't make me a fan and I thoroughly enjoy this thread.

Owen

Oct 15 2010, 07:52

QUOTE

"I was pleased with the pace we showed during the race. Jenson set the second-fastest lap, and, before my gearbox problem, I was closing down on Fernando [Alonso] and could even have made it onto the podium despite a five-place grid penalty. Given that we weren't racing all the updates we'd brought to Japan with us, I think that gives us a lot of encouragement for Korea and beyond." Lewis Hamilton

Given the way the last three races played out, is anyone remotely optimistic about how the car will perform in Korea? I have to say my expectations are fairly low now.

Ferrari2183

Oct 15 2010, 08:09

QUOTE (Owen @ Oct 15 2010, 07:52)

Given the way the last three races played out, is anyone remotely optimistic about how the car will perform in Korea? I have to say my expectations are fairly low now.

Based on Mclaren's update history since Silverstone and the unkwown factor of the track I really don't know why the team and the drivers make these statements.

I think it's silly and it sets the fans up for disappointment. The "unlocked potential" must be getting tiresome.

Clatter

Oct 15 2010, 08:19

QUOTE (Owen @ Oct 15 2010, 08:52)

Given the way the last three races played out, is anyone remotely optimistic about how the car will perform in Korea? I have to say my expectations are fairly low now.

The performance is there and they certainly should have been on the podium at the last race, so yes, I think there is plenty to be optimistic about.

Tombstone

Oct 15 2010, 08:45

QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Oct 14 2010, 21:33)

I'm a tifoso. I'll do it for the team...

I'm sure you know that said individual didn't actually seriously injure anyone around him. Made a mess of the floor and walls behind him mind.

RenArto

Oct 15 2010, 09:53

QUOTE (Owen @ Oct 15 2010, 08:52)

Given the way the last three races played out, is anyone remotely optimistic about how the car will perform in Korea? I have to say my expectations are fairly low now.

I'm quietly optimistic for Korea at least.
The track looks like it could suit the 25 and the track time in Japan on the upgrades should "hopefully" mean they work out the box.

seahawk

Oct 15 2010, 10:01

I wonder why McLaren always likes to do this. Why not say that the RBR are the favourites and be happy if you beat them. Lately they always underperformed when they were promising working upgrades and being capable to fight for the win.

Owen

Oct 15 2010, 10:32

QUOTE (seahawk @ Oct 15 2010, 11:01)

Well, MW is sounding a bit confident again. Uh oh.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87466

seahawk

Oct 15 2010, 10:43

I really do not understand this. Do they think they can keep us fans happy that way or something? In his position I would always say that the RBR is the fastest car and that their drivers are the favourites and that "our" team will be trying to challenge them but that the pressure is on them and not on "us". Kind of like what Ferrari and Alonso are doing. "RBR are favourites but if we score 3 podiums we have to decent chance... "

as65p

Oct 15 2010, 10:46

QUOTE (seahawk @ Oct 15 2010, 12:43)

Yep. It's almost as if McLaren is still living in the eighties, when they last had good reason to talk like that.

TURU

Oct 15 2010, 10:50

QUOTE (Owen @ Oct 15 2010, 12:32)

Well, MW is sounding a bit confident again. Uh oh.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87466

MW and the drivers are starting to sound very annoyingly lately. If it's their PR strategy, then it's a really bad one. If it's not, then they should return to planet Earth, because apparently they are in a different universe right now

robefc

Oct 15 2010, 11:20

QUOTE (TURU @ Oct 15 2010, 11:50)

Maybe they're trying to convince themselves

I get annoyed with all of the 'this team exists to win' 'we'll never give up fighting' 'we'll be working harder than eve' etc etc, surely all these things are a given plus isn't every other team fighting and working hard?

beckenlima

Oct 15 2010, 13:15

QUOTE (Massacrator @ Oct 13 2010, 14:26)

So, you think that if in last race they are going Alonso 1st, Hamilton 2nd and Webber 3rd, and Webber needs 2nd to win the WDC Hamilton would let him through?

Maybe the point is that — in terms of performance — Ferrari is most vulnerable to McLaren than Red Bull at the moment, as we saw at Japan´s qualy. Another point: I remember in the last year that McLaren was pleased to beat Ferrari when both teams had a dog of car in their hands. Maybe could be less painful see Webber than Ferrari/Fernando winning in the end...

Stormsky68

Oct 15 2010, 13:53

QUOTE (Massacrator @ Oct 13 2010, 18:26)

So, you think that if in last race they are going Alonso 1st, Hamilton 2nd and Webber 3rd, and Webber needs 2nd to win the WDC Hamilton would let him through?

I'd pay good money to see that happen

syph0nJZ05

Oct 15 2010, 14:40

QUOTE (as65p @ Oct 15 2010, 11:46)

Yep. It's almost as if McLaren is still living in the eighties, when they last had good reason to talk like that.

Or the late nineties and naughties

fabr68

Oct 15 2010, 16:02

QUOTE (Massacrator @ Oct 13 2010, 17:26)

So, you think that if in last race they are going Alonso 1st, Hamilton 2nd and Webber 3rd, and Webber needs 2nd to win the WDC Hamilton would let him through?

The question is would those two perform the move without taking each other out?

Massacrator

Oct 15 2010, 16:21

QUOTE (fabr68 @ Oct 15 2010, 18:02)

The question is would those two perform the move without taking each other out?

You just made me laugh at work.. Damn you!

fatfreddie

Oct 15 2010, 19:46

Could someone please tell me why it is necessary for Whitmarsh to warn the other title contenders not to write off the Mac drivers? Really, this guy is worse than Dennis.

DanardiF1

Oct 15 2010, 19:51

QUOTE (fatfreddie @ Oct 15 2010, 20:46)

Could someone please tell me why it is necessary for Whitmarsh to warn the other title contenders not to write off the Mac drivers? Really, this guy is worse than Dennis.

So if they win the title he can say 'told you so' and if not say 'well we tried our best but just came short..'... Often press releases aren't just for 'our' benefit, they're good for team morale too...

OwenC93

Oct 15 2010, 22:18

QUOTE (fatfreddie @ Oct 15 2010, 20:46)

Could someone please tell me why it is necessary for Whitmarsh to warn the other title contenders not to write off the Mac drivers? Really, this guy is worse than Dennis.

He wasn't talking to the other teams ;)

mclarensmps

Oct 15 2010, 23:11

QUOTE (fatfreddie @ Oct 15 2010, 15:46)

Really, this guy is worse than Dennis.

You're right, Dennis was a better team boss, without a doubt!

ashnathan

Oct 16 2010, 02:51

i miss Ron, he didnt take shit from nobody and he wasn't a goody two shoes.

DarthRonzo

Oct 16 2010, 04:32

Uhmmm... I don't know if Ron's presence is good for Lewis.

Don't know exactly when Dennis came back to follow the races in 2010, but when he was away, Lewis was more relaxed and didn't make silly mistakes.
But latelly, after Monza, Lewis is doing lots of mistakes, despite all warnings from everybody in the McLaren staff.

Lewis got rid of his father and now Ron became some kind of father figure.
Maybe Lewis has some psico restriction about being dominated.

robybobey

Oct 16 2010, 10:44

QUOTE (DarthRonzo @ Oct 16 2010, 05:32)

Uhmmm... I don't know if Ron's presence is good for Lewis.

Lol? You think all of Lewis's mistakes are due to Ron?

If I remember rightly, Ron was at Canada and Belguim, look what happened there.

I honestly don't think you can blame the mistakes by Lewis on Ron at all; Lewis has just been very unlucky.

GAZF1nut

Oct 16 2010, 10:55

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/245020/...d-suit-our-car/

I'll take this with a pinch of salt.

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