No, the argument isn't solely about acclimitisation. Lewis is rated as one of the best drivers in F1 - in his rookie year he matched and beat the great Alonso. He is a WDC, the youngest at that and he has been at the one team for his entire F1 career.

Button on the other hand is a journey man. Some say he lucked out in winning his WDC as his car had a significant performance advantage. He is an above avergae driver but not in the league of the Hamilton's, Alonso's etc

When you then add the new team factor and the lack of on track testing, the differnce in ability will be exacerbated by his lack of running in the car. It will be a blood bath IMO.

Then again Button could prove 99% of F1 fans out there wrong and match Lewis. Unlikely

er.. Grenada, please tell me you are being ironic.

OT: IMHO no one should be embarrassed if they support their countryman or someone sharing the same background. In fact F1 seems to be positively encouraging this these days. Have there ever been so many teams so overtly linked with countries?

I think someone people forget that Jensen CHOSE to come to Mclaren. Mclaren will no way adopt to his methods specifically. His input? Yes most likely as a driver.

I really doubt the McLaren intra-team battle will hinge on whether Button acclimatises to a new steering wheel

F1 drivers have an incredible ability to learn and adapt. I'm guessing JB's been in the simulator for weeks and weeks now. What may take a little longer is the way the car actually feels underneath him, given that you'd have to expect, to some degree, that the car was developed with Lewis' driving style. But, then again, Lewis has to adapt to way the car feels this year as well.

I don't think there are any significant advantages or disadvantages with either driver at the moment, my assumption that Lewis will end up with more points is based on my belief that he is simply the better racer.

No, I'm not being ironic. I don't like the idea that I should support something just because of the accident of my birth. There are other qualities/criteria that outweigh birth location. People should be able to support who they want for their own reasons.

Oh, I think I know why you said that now. Duh!

Didn't mean to assume nationalism on anyone. Just curious if the backing is at anyway regional. Here in the states it sometimes turns into north v south. As a yank living in the south I'm well aware of the regional battles that can insue...

It's not going to be the only differentiator, but I don't understand why you would dismiss DC's comments out of hand

So which is it? People should be allowed to support who they want but you loathe nationalism.

What if someone chooses to support Button or Hamilton because they are his/her countryman?

You are contradicting yourself. If the reason I support someone is because of nationalistic fervor, you have just said you hate that. What if I support Button over Hamilton because he´s white. Would that be OK?
Just asking.

My Prediction:

Hamilton will score more wins

Button will score more points

Hamilton will have more DNFs, Button will be consistent take less risks, bring the car home, which will give him more points

Just like how Alain Prost beat Senna in 1989

Button is not in Prost's class

Why are we so ready to take them as proof of Button's supposed disadvantage?

whoever scores more wins will most likely end up with more points with the new system. I dont see anyone having the edge in consistency... consistency will probably be hinged on things they cant control much. Car reliability, first corner shunts etc

Tire gentility? lets wait and see, I get the feeling we are in for a rude surprise

I was actually coming back to edit my first post. I dont mean to be spiky but I hate typing and sometimes blurt things out instead of saying them in a more considered way.

Can I say that having followed F1 on and off since Prost was first champ, I have tended to support drivers who are closest to me in background - and anyone signed by Macca. I just find it a natural thing to do. In fact I supported LH from before he went to F1 primarily on this basis and I would have supported him if he were Nakajima standard. For me it is an absolute bonus that he looks like he could be one of the best in the business and best of all he drives for Macca. Long may it continue. ... but that does not blind me to LH's short comings.

I have respect for great drivers like MS, FA, NM and so on over the years and today I look out for RK, FA and the Hulk and Koba but I dont feel any real connection with them beyond admiring and being greatly entertained by their work. If someone supports JB because he is a Brit and real gent in a race suit and a master of mickey taking, speaks very well and has other "good bloke" qualities I can completely understand that. ... but lets not pretend that any of that relates to how good he is at driving a racecar.

That said, support and objective analysis have to be disentangled or you soon find yourself saying things like "the team favoured his team-mate" or "the FIA is picking on him" or like the BBC panel of 'experts' "the difference between the two will come down to who has been in the team longer".

People should be able to support who they want for their own reasons as I said above but I personally loathe nationalism which is why I support Lewis for reasons other than that he is British. I was answering the question from a personal point of view not imposing my view on other supporters.

I believe I understand what he means. You should be able to support who you choose. If you do it for no other reason than nationality that's ok, but he dislikes that. I second him in that. It's ok to but a rather shallow reason to.

If you choose for race that's your choice. Ignorant, but then there's no law on stupidity. (and I know you didn't say you did)

See reply above.

I got your back!!! Raaaawwwwwrrrr! (snarls and shows vicious fangs!) just kidding lol

Have to agree, the steering wheel thing is 100% excuse for not wanting to undermine Jense on air (fair enough as far as that goes). Jense just has to learn it, in the simulator and on his sofa in the dark like Lewis did. He's had months to do that. On top of that he can get his own wheel done AFAIK with his own layout, if he wants. But the team would expect him to just learn what they've carefully designed, barring a few tweaks.

DC was taking a lot of deveopment to RBR with his steering wheel, not just a layout. And he's a mate of Jenson...

Plus as we've pointed out none of them mentioned Fernando losing to Massa until next year because it's Massa's team

Very good point. The whole thing was a lot of guff, apart from Jordan's odd moments of genius

I have not held his words out as 'proof' of anything but as an experts view which I find interesting. I consider his view to be worthy of consideration and not without merit.

Button and Hamilton are both from the South of England. I live in the North so have no preferance due to location. And dont know off anyone in my area who does due to location It was probably slightly different when DC was racing as he was from Scotland so would (i imagine) have had the majority of the suport from Scotland rather than Button or Hamilton.

Button has already said in a in terview, that he has spent a lot of time in the simulator doing such things. Buttons car is bespoke when it comes to his brake bias and other knobs. He has basically transfered what he was used to at Honda/Brawn to Mclaren. Button will have no excuse when he loses. I don't think it will be Kovalainen size gaps to Hamilton. But I can see some races where he'll get absolutely smashed. Rubens proved Button is average. It will be a 13-6 season to Hamilton and Buttons head will drop by mid-season and the press will have a field day.

Please can we keep the Nationalism discussion (such that it is) focussed on Jenson v Lewis please.

I wonder if the press will go for the "Button in lion's den/didn't have a chance/it's Lewis's team/no equality at McLaren" tack, or "Lewis is now proved to be a better driver" tack. Presuming Hamilton beats him of course.

I can honestly say that I'm clueless about what will happen on Sunday. It's a great feeling. I've been watching F1 for over 20 years now and I've never had so little feeling for what is going to happen (which doesn't bode well for my Guess the Grid chances, does it?).

As far as Lewis and Jenson, I can't be surprised. I think there are a lot of possible outcomes that are reasonable. Lewis could prove that he really is a statistical outlier and have a big edge on Button, and Jenson could prove that he's always been top shelf and just been waiting for cars worthy of his talent by beating Lewis handily. I think it's far more likely that it will be a close battle, but I wouldn't be shocked by such outcomes.

I'm curious how some people on this board would respond if Jenson gets the upper hand. Will it be crickets chirping? Excuses flying? Will the Alonso fans flood the place to gloat? It really could get ugly around here.

My bet is the media will just stop talking about Jense, almost, like they did before. I think they're sort of planning for that by talking about him all the time now.

Let me get this right. You are saying there are a lot of stupid black people around because they support Lewis because they identify with him? Did I understand that correctly?

Of course, it's interesting.

Of course, DC knows his stuff and it has merit.

Of course, DC went to a team needing development and guidance, and yes, it deserves consideration.

Button is not in the same situation as DC was. DC's comments are more apt for someone like, say, Chandhok or Senna. Button is a seasoned pro and has had weeks, if not a couple of months, of learning in the simulator.

I just can't see it having an influence on the driver battle, because I don't think there is any disadvantage to Button.

Very poor, as one of my teachers used to say (frequently). Must try harder.

In that scenario, they won't. Alonso could not beat Hamilton, it would be a disaster if Button could, right?

dont be naive .....they would say its evidence Hamilton was favored in 07 and RD tampered with FA's car

Gents, this thread is not about Lewis vs Fernando, that was so 2007.

If Lewis wins this head to head, which many people suspect he will (for a variety of different reasons) then Button has the luxury of having come in to Hamilton's den and all the excuses that go with it. I do happen to think that there is some merit to the suggestion that he will need a year to 100% become acclimatised despite what he says to the papers. As DC said in the BBC preview, things in the car have to become instinctive; and unless McLaren have 100% tailored his cockpit to him completely differently to the way Hamilton's is*, I'm not sure it will be instinctive

If Button wins the head to head then Lewis has no such luxury. His reputation would take a massive hit.

As it is, I don't expect the latter to happen.

* Is this a plausible thing that would be done or would he be expected to learn new arrangements?

For me, Button gets 3 races to get up to speed. I don't think he should be expected to match Lewis in the first few, but I think half a season or a full season as some are making out is way, way too generous. I wouldn't expect Hamilton to be trailing Button for half a season if he'd joined him at Brawn.

Faster reactions obviously help. So, if Jenson doesn't know the steering wheel as well as Lewis that will cost him. However, that's not necessarily something you will often see in qualifying or during normal parts of the race. After all, for the main controls he would already be used to them otherwise he wouldn't be able to drive the car. It would be the more rarely used controls where he would have more of a problem... but if such a situation doesn't come up in a race, then it doesn't matter.

For DC's move to RB, we don't know how good RB's simulator was at the time. We don't know how flexible they are mentally - DC wore his "lucky pants" until they became worn out, but JB doesn't seem like that. We also don't know the relative quality and depth of the wheels, though at the time I suspect going from McLaren's steering wheel to RB's felt like a downgrade to DC. Going from Brawn's to McLaren's steering wheel might feel like an upgrade to Jenson... though it's probably more complex too - McLaren almost certainly have more "knobs" to play with in terms of tuning the car, so Jenson might have to get ready to new concepts, not just a new layout. I would say new concepts are a lot harder to learn than a different layout.

However, McLaren have a very good simulator, and in just about every interview with Jenson I remember him talking about having just used the simulator or going back to use the simulator shortly. He may well have driven many many more virtual miles than real ones and I would think McLaren have put him through a specific training programme to "acclimatise".

Certainly I think a lot of commentators go over-board on how McLaren is "Lewis's team" and how he's been there for so long. He's only been with the F1 racing team 3 years though - it's not like they're the same people he'd have worked with from the start. I think Lewis is just that bit faster than Jenson but most commentators don't want to say that too much, so they focus on other things. Well anyway, it will be up to Jenson to make use of what McLaren can do for him - if he just sits back and waits for them to hand things to him on a silver platter, then he's going to lose - like with driving, you need to be aggressive in preparation too, within reason.

edit I should also add that it's also a matter of McLaren getting used to Jenson as well.

True but then it is also said of Button that he, far more than Hamilton, needs things to be 'just right' before he can get the most out of himself. Hamilton will drive around problems. So if the roles were reversed and it was Hamilton joining MGP then he probably wouldn't need as much time because he's not quite as particular. That's not a criticism of Button btw, it's just what anyone and everyone who knows him inside F1 has been saying about him.

Button should not be given any time, be it 3 or 10 races, to get up to speed. He should simply be up to speed at the start of the season. If he isn't, I doubt he's gonna improve.

This vast wave of expectation from the media and fans is one good reason why I hope Button beats Hamilton. Woo hoo the underdog! Button is rated inexplicably low by the majority, given what he has shown he is capable of. I don't know if the 'boy band' related slump in form earlier in his career or the fact that he suffered under pressure in the second half of his WDC winning season has anything to do with it, but it seems odd to rank someone based on their lowest achievements, when he has some high points matched by very few. I don't think there will be a lot in it.

I would say hats off to Button. I'll possibly say it was an anomaly and see what happens next year. If Button put the manners on Hamilton 2 years in a row. I would say "The King is dead, long live the King" I've always lived by this mantra, "When the facts change I change my mind" Button beating Hamilton would be such a scenario and I would have to drastically change my view and opinion of Button. Conversely if Button gets smashed by Hambone, I hope most of Buttons supporters will take off their hats and admit Lewis is better than they thought and genuinely the real deal.

IMO it's one of those times when the majority is correct - Jenson is very good, Lewis is once-in-a-decade special as SFW said.

Watching the bits of testing video it seemed quite odd watching a McLaren being tiptoed into corners with Jense, even Kovy was more positive with it. If I were a JB fan I'd be very nervous about what's about to happen.

My reading of it is this - and I'll preface it by saying I don't entirely agree with the people who hold the view.

I think people see what you call his 'lowest achievements' as being the actual Jenson Button i.e. the one who isn't winning rings around him. They see the Button who won 6 of the first 7 races in '09 as doing so off the back of a ridiculously good car that no-one else could get near, as evidenced by Barrichello managing to come 2nd three times in the same period. Over his career, it is the first half of '09 that is the anomoly, not the other 163 races.

Personally I think Button is a very good driver, not quite top drawer, but very good and what he did in '09 should not be belittled. It doesn't matter how you do it; the way he started '09 took something special. But I think when people are rating him, taking everything into account I get the impression that a career is not made in half a season.

It'll certainly put him in the record books though and that's probably all he cares about

All this BS about getting used to the car. Nobody ever spoke about it until the young guns with zero F1 experience started to race.

Drivers don't need time to get used to their cars. Time might give them more insight to extract a tenth or more two over a season but otherwise it makes no difference. All good F1 drivers can dive into another car and make it happen.

Mark my words, Jenson will equal or even beat Hamilton this year. He is extremely underrated. I like the comparison to Prost made earlier, I do think this is especially apt. Button is much more calculating than Hamilton, he is still JUST part of the older gentlemen racer generation (that doesn't mean he's a pushover).

On the other hand, Hamilton is the kind of guy who would have failed big time in times gone by. He relies totally on his team to do everything for him except drive. He has no ability to think for himself during a race (Dave Ryan incident) whereas the radio conversations for Button indicate otherwise.

Added to that, Hamilton may be fast but I feel that he is a bit like Kimi - i.e. born for McLaren. I think his driving style is too dependent on McLaren. That is not to say that the car is built around him. As Alonso and Raikkonen have shown, any good driver can drive the pants off that McLaren.

Beware of Jenson. He has the driving ability. He has the head. And he can handle the pressure (knowing he was not wanted at Brawn and surviving several years of a crap Honda car).
Hamilton? He has race pace (at the expense of tyres - not good for this season). He has shown repeatedly that he cannot handle pressure.

btw as for national trends. Hamilton and Button are both pretty well-educated, they are hardly like Wayne Rooney. But to me, Hamilton represents the younger generation who in the year 2010 are devoid of much moral fibre, all they know is consumerism. Perhaps this is why Hamilton is such a corporate wh0re. On the other hand, Button is a much more measured, relaxed guy. Sure he partied a few years ago but he has always been of another generation. I would love to see him get that second WDC.......and then move to Ferrari!

You read my mind, fed up.

Not so.

The same can be said about the comparison between Hammy and Senna. Lewis in senna's class??

timba is that you

Ugh, you had to quote him didn't you :\

Just wanted to say one thing,

Those who say Button will struggle in qualy against Hamilton will be in for a big surprise.

The same thing goes for those who say Hamilton will damage his tires more than Button.

Button is so gentlemanly! Like the way he went behind Honda's back and signed with Williams! Great way to treat your team eh?