http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL158zY6laM
This was close than i thought. Pull a bit ahead and he would have passed Massa. It was a hero or be damned but hindsight is a clever thing.
Full Version: Jenson and Lewis Scorecard 2010 [merged]
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QUOTE (Jay101 @ Sep 12 2010, 17:36) 
Since JB had high df his soft rubber would of out lasted FA's.
I thought the same, especially as it was Alonso who was running in dirty air. It was a weird decision by McLaren. A win would have been awesome, but it wasn't to be.
QUOTE (jesee @ Sep 12 2010, 16:45)
What shadow are you talking about? The guy has without circumstances driving the same car been dominated by Hamilton. Hamilton has had three DNFs which have been relatively costly as compared to JB only one in Spa and yet he is still ahead.
not to mention monaco?
QUOTE (race addicted @ Sep 12 2010, 17:46)
I said at the time when Button had I believe a 1.2 secs lead, that he should pit, 'cause Alonso really looked stronger throughout, which is why I thought they should pit when he had fallen slightly behind for some reason. Especially factoring in that McLaren had looked stronger relatively speaking, on the hards.
Pitting too early would have meant Button fell back right in traffic. I don't think there was an option to pit much quicker, and Alonso was right behind Button the laps before they pitted.
QUOTE (Lights @ Sep 12 2010, 17:49)
Pitting too early would have meant Button fell back right in traffic. I don't think there was an option to pit much quicker, and Alonso was right behind Button the laps before they pitted.
I was watching the gap to Rosberg which was 20-21 seconds, and that should've been enough.
QUOTE (Lights @ Sep 12 2010, 08:44)
Lol. Ok. In the interview with Lee he only mentions he was slower than expected and had to be very smooth, but nothing at all about flat spotting any tyre whatsoever, so I don't know where you've heard that.
Oh that. I didn't hear that I SAW it. Coming in to turn one and he locked his tyre massively fairly early on. Hence why in the press conference he was talking about vibrations.QUOTE (race addicted @ Sep 12 2010, 17:50)
I was watching the gap to Rosberg which was 20-21 seconds, and that should've been enough.
It's not enough because Button's pitstop took 22.9 seconds.
QUOTE (jesee @ Sep 12 2010, 11:45)
What shadow are you talking about? The guy has without circumstances driving the same car been dominated by Hamilton. Hamilton has had three DNFs which have been relatively costly as compared to JB only one in Spa and yet he is still ahead.
I must have not been clear or you did not understand what I posted.
QUOTE (Lights @ Sep 12 2010, 16:41)
I had the same idea, just knew it wouldn't work out at the pit stop. I didn't think he'd hold him off. But in general, he did ok. Ferrari was quicker, and he at least still beat Massa.
Button is rightly upset for Mclaren pitting him before Alonso and I dont blame him. Your 1st lap after pitting is never super quick especially at Monza, it always takes a lap or 2 to get up to speed. Mclaren didn't even need to cover off Massa, because effectively he is out of the WDC hunt, so covering Alonso was the only goal. Mclaren blinked first because Kubica was faster on the primes, but only after a few laps. Typical Mclaren strategy, blinking before the other team have shown their hand.
Jenson's so calm and clean and very consistent, most of the time. He's way better than Lewis, IMO.
QUOTE (Smile17 @ Sep 12 2010, 08:55)
Jenson's so calm and clean and very consistent, most of the time. He's way better than Lewis, IMO.
QUOTE (Ricardo F1 @ Sep 12 2010, 17:51)
Oh that. I didn't hear that I SAW it. Coming in to turn one and he locked his tyre massively fairly early on. Hence why in the press conference he was talking about vibrations.
He did not drop the word 'vibrations' in the press conference.
Drivers lock their wheels quite often. Don't get what you see in this. He wasn't forced to pit that lap because of his tyres.
QUOTE (skido @ Sep 12 2010, 15:50)
I dont think anyone would be praising LH for coming second behind a car he was a match for. I guess this is the measure of Button, praised to the hilt for doing an okay job.
They shouldn't praise Hamilton for coming 2nd behind a car he was a match for, because he didn't.
QUOTE (Lights @ Sep 12 2010, 17:51)
It's not enough because Button's pitstop took 22.9 seconds.
Right.
QUOTE (Smile17 @ Sep 12 2010, 16:55)
Jenson's so calm and clean and very consistent, most of the time. He's way better than Lewis, IMO.
You must have missed most of the races this year. Was this your first race?
Well, that was a bad weekend for Lewis. Pretty much the only really bad one (judging his own performance) that he's had this season though. The incident was slightly unlucky, a slightly different contact and there would have been no oversteer and no crash. But things like this can go one way or the other, so it's not an excuse.
He'll bounce back, I'm sure.
Button drove a good race.
He'll bounce back, I'm sure.
Button drove a good race.
QUOTE (Smile17 @ Sep 12 2010, 16:55)
Jenson's so calm and clean and very consistent, most of the time. He's way better than Lewis, IMO.
Wow talk about your only as good as your last race.
QUOTE (The Ragged Edge @ Sep 12 2010, 17:54)
Button is rightly upset for Mclaren pitting him before Alonso and I dont blame him. Your 1st lap after pitting is never super quick especially at Monza, it always takes a lap or 2 to get up to speed. Mclaren didn't even need to cover off Massa, because effectively he is out of the WDC hunt, so covering Alonso was the only goal. Mclaren blinked first because Kubica was faster on the primes, but only after a few laps. Typical Mclaren strategy, blinking before the other team have shown their hand.
I think it would have had potential if the tyres were the other way around, i.e. if they went from hards to softs. But on tracks like these where the tyre wear is this low, it's obvious the hard tyres won't be up to temperature immediately. From that basis alone, McLaren made the wrong call. I do feel Jenson should have known this as well though, but he obviously can't see the laptimes of others who already went to the option tyres.
QUOTE (Lights @ Sep 12 2010, 08:57)
He did not drop the word 'vibrations' in the press conference.
Drivers lock their wheels quite often. Don't get what you see in this. He wasn't forced to pit that lap because of his tyres.
I'll have to look at the transcript, right now the quotes on the front page say when he was EXITING the pits he had lots of shuddering, which makes zero sense. Drivers lock wheels, big black spots appear on them after. Button had them on the front right, it ain't going to do much for his tyres.Drivers lock their wheels quite often. Don't get what you see in this. He wasn't forced to pit that lap because of his tyres.
QUOTE (Ricardo F1 @ Sep 12 2010, 18:05)
I'll have to look at the transcript, right now the quotes on the front page say when he was EXITING the pits he had lots of shuddering, which makes zero sense. Drivers lock wheels, big black spots appear on them after. Button had them on the front right, it ain't going to do much for his tyres.
It makes zero sense as you're confusing yourself, I think.
In your first post, you said:
QUOTE (Ricardo F1 @ Sep 12 2010, 17:15)
Which is weird, in the post race interview he said he was sliding all over the place and had to come in ; probably mostly to do with his flatspotting the front right chronically early on.
Here you were talking about Jenson flatspotting his OPTION tyres, and as a result of that, 'had to come in' for a pit stop. And now you're suddenly talking about Jenson on his PRIME tyres after his pit stop, on which he had lots of shuddering. I don't see the relation between Jenson flatspotting his PRIME tyres, and Jenson having to come in for a pit stop previous to that on his OPTION tyres..
QUOTE (Simon Says @ Sep 12 2010, 16:57)
Maybe he should drive a bit more like Prost.
Yes but then Alain was called "le Professeur", he was a calculated driver and a thinking man.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
QUOTE (Smile17 @ Sep 12 2010, 16:55)
Jenson's so calm and clean and very consistent, most of the time. He's way better than Lewis, IMO.
Better in what way? I don't think anyone could say he's a better driver. Can you clarify in what area he IS better, to give us a better idea of what you mean?
QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 17:10)
Yes but then Alain was called "le Professeur", he was a calculated driver and a thinking man.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
There is still a long way to go in this championship. Plenty more twists and turns to come. For being such an unthinking driver Hamilton appears to be doing fine so far, sitting second in the championship in an inferior car to the Red Bull. Sure, he blew it today but he's not exactly alone in the error making stakes.
What a race by Jenson. Respect !
That was a superlative performance by him. Probably one of the best I've seen from him.
That was a superlative performance by him. Probably one of the best I've seen from him.
QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 17:10)
Yes but then Alain was called "le Professeur", he was a calculated driver and a thinking man.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
From the sit you are on, then we must conclude that Alonso since he has made mistakes nearly every race is such a poor thinker worse than Hamilton.....or so says your logic. Ferrari must be dying to get a Button like driver for his seat....fingers crossed we might see him at Ferrari next season
QUOTE (inca_roads @ Sep 12 2010, 17:01)
Well, that was a bad weekend for Lewis. Pretty much the only really bad one (judging his own performance) that he's had this season though. The incident was slightly unlucky, a slightly different contact and there would have been no oversteer and no crash. But things like this can go one way or the other, so it's not an excuse.
He'll bounce back, I'm sure.
Button drove a good race.
He'll bounce back, I'm sure.
Button drove a good race.
I hope Lewis doesn't get too discouraged by it. IMO he deserves the championship this year, having had to fight for his position with a car that was less competitive for the majority of the season. I don't feel the Red Bulls deserve it, despite the strong underdog support for Webber, because I don't think their car was legal until more stringent tests were brought in. Alonso's been artificially elevated in the WDC by clear team orders. I think Hamilton's the best man, and although it's clear to me now that in F1 the best man doesn't always win, one can always live in hope.
QUOTE (jesee @ Sep 12 2010, 17:18)
From the sit you are on, then we must conclude that Alonso since he has made mistakes nearly every race is such a poor thinker worse than Hamilton.....or so says your logic. Ferrari must be dying to get a Button like driver for his seat....fingers crossed we might see him at Ferrari next season
If that happens, and if team orders are re-legalised, then fingers crossed Hamilton finally gets a supportive co-driver.
QUOTE (Lights @ Sep 12 2010, 09:10)
Here you were talking about Jenson flatspotting his OPTION tyres, and as a result of that, 'had to come in' for a pit stop. And now you're suddenly talking about Jenson on his PRIME tyres after his pit stop, on which he had lots of shuddering. I don't see the relation between Jenson flatspotting his PRIME tyres, and Jenson having to come in for a pit stop previous to that on his OPTION tyres..
What? No the quotes on the front page say EXITING the pits, in the press conference I heard ENTERING. It makes no sense that he'd have shuddering tyres on exit - unless someone put them on wrong!QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 17:10)
Yes but then Alain was called "le Professeur", he was a calculated driver and a thinking man.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
Maybe you havnt seen the prang more than once...have another look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL158zY6laM
Youre being a bit harsh... This incident does not justify such strident comments.
There isnt much between them, is there? Before the season started, everyone said Lewis would blow Jenson away. Perhaps in some of the later races that is true, but early on Button kept Lewis pretty honest. Then there are the few instances of very lenient stewards vs the bad luck of Button, and the points difference would be even smaller without those. Perhaps its a good lesson for Lewis not to go banzai all the time. He almost did the same at the start of the Valencia race with Vettel too.
QUOTE (JackTorrance @ Sep 12 2010, 09:21)
There isnt much between them, is there? Before the season started, everyone said Lewis would blow Jenson away. Perhaps in some of the later races that is true, but early on Button kept Lewis pretty honest. Then there are the few instances of very lenient stewards vs the bad luck of Button, and the points difference would be even smaller without those.
Are you serious???? The early races that Button kept Hamilton honest were as much about good luck of Button versus the bad luck of Hamilton - without which the gap would be much larger!
Some of you don't do JBs cause any good in this thread spouting tripe about him and his position with respect to Lewis.
However, Jenson did have the best of it today and did an excellent job keeping a clearly faster package in Alonso and The Ferrari at bay for so long. I don't think Mclaren got anything wrong with the ptistop call. They were in a no win situation with the timing: leave it late and you risk the faster Ferrai coming in a lap earlier doing a faster outlap and then when you stop a lap later being behind. Or doing as they did and stopping first and Ferrari doing a quicker lap once in free air.
What I was surprised about is that they came out very close and Jenson could have won if their pitstops were equally quick. I had assumed Alonso would have had more daylight to Jenson when he existed the pits.
So good job Jenson and bad luck to Lewis who missed a golden opportunity to strengthen his WDC hopes.
However, Jenson did have the best of it today and did an excellent job keeping a clearly faster package in Alonso and The Ferrari at bay for so long. I don't think Mclaren got anything wrong with the ptistop call. They were in a no win situation with the timing: leave it late and you risk the faster Ferrai coming in a lap earlier doing a faster outlap and then when you stop a lap later being behind. Or doing as they did and stopping first and Ferrari doing a quicker lap once in free air.
What I was surprised about is that they came out very close and Jenson could have won if their pitstops were equally quick. I had assumed Alonso would have had more daylight to Jenson when he existed the pits.
So good job Jenson and bad luck to Lewis who missed a golden opportunity to strengthen his WDC hopes.
Posts have been deleted, please keep it civil, address the post not the poster and stop the personal attacks.
QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 17:10)
Yes but then Alain was called "le Professeur", he was a calculated driver and a thinking man.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
Now Lewis has a lot of things going for him but thinking doesn't seem to be one of his qualities.
His only mission for the day was not losing points to the Red Bulls and keep as close to Alonso as possible without taking too much risk. Maybe somebody should have told him that because crashing out like that was utterly stupid and totally unnecessary.
Actually Whitmarsh's decision to get Button to the team is once more vindicated, they needed a quick experienced driver who can think on his feet, who is mature and not impressed by the hype that is hammy.
Jenson has proven again that he can out-think Lewis any day, sure on pure outright speed hammy has the advantage but champions are much more than only that.
Come on.
Hamilton's front wheels clipped Vettels back wheel in Valencia and there was no talk of Hamilton lacking brain power, because nothing happened like 90% of wheels coming together in contemporary F1. Hamilton saw a gap that wasn't really there and paid the price. Jensons race today had nothing to do with out thinking an opponent. Today was all about speed, he had it against Massa, but not with Alonso. It's a shame Button couldn't out think Alonso today? Oops, sorry it was speed that was needed today, not brain power and Button didn't have it against Alonso.
QUOTE (Ricardo F1 @ Sep 12 2010, 18:21)
What? No the quotes on the front page say EXITING the pits, in the press conference I heard ENTERING. It makes no sense that he'd have shuddering tyres on exit - unless someone put them on wrong!
Well that was still the case. It was exiting. His option tyres were fine, but on the primes he didn't get the right grip immediately in the first lap.
QUOTE (P123 @ Sep 12 2010, 18:14)
There is still a long way to go in this championship. Plenty more twists and turns to come. For being such an unthinking driver Hamilton appears to be doing fine so far, sitting second in the championship in an inferior car to the Red Bull. Sure, he blew it today but he's not exactly alone in the error making stakes.
Oh I agree the championship is far from over but the one thing he shouldn't have done today he did do and that was taking too much and unnecessary risk and crashing out.
Mistakes or bad luck can happen no problem but this was just utterly stupid and I don't think that will change with the boy, he says all the time that it will make him stronger but it only makes him better in admitting his faults and in apologizing but I don't think he'll learn and adapt.
Jenson on the other hand has proven again that he's very smart and certainly has won over many more hearts at macca.
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 17:28)
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
We don't know it was the wrong decision. It may have worked out perfectly. But it would have been nice to have had the chance to find out.
QUOTE (The Ragged Edge @ Sep 12 2010, 18:25)
Come on. Hamilton's front wheels clipped Vettels back wheel in Valencia and there was no talk of Hamilton lacking brain power, because nothing happened like 90% of wheels coming together in contemporary F1. Hamilton saw a gap that wasn't really there and paid the price. Jensons race today had nothing to do with out thinking an opponent. Today was all about speed, he had it against Massa, but not with Alonso. It's a shame Button couldn't out think Alonso today? Oops, sorry it was speed that was needed today, not brain power and Button didn't have it against Alonso.
Hamilton's front wheels clipped Vettels back wheel in Valencia and there was no talk of Hamilton lacking brain power, because nothing happened like 90% of wheels coming together in contemporary F1. Hamilton saw a gap that wasn't really there and paid the price. Jensons race today had nothing to do with out thinking an opponent. Today was all about speed, he had it against Massa, but not with Alonso. It's a shame Button couldn't out think Alonso today? Oops, sorry it was speed that was needed today, not brain power and Button didn't have it against Alonso.That somebody says something untrue about Hamilton doesn't mean a dig at Jenson is required in your response. Button did everything he could, but he did not have a pit crew able to change his tyres under 4 seconds.
QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 17:28)
Oh I agree the championship is far from over but the one thing he shouldn't have done today he did do and that was taking too much and unnecessary risk and crashing out.
Mistakes or bad luck can happen no problem but this was just utterly stupid and I don't think that will change with the boy, he says all the time that it will make him stronger but it only makes him better in admitting his faults and in apologizing but I don't think he'll learn and adapt.
Jenson on the other hand has proven again that he's very smart and certainly has won over many more hearts at macca.
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
Mistakes or bad luck can happen no problem but this was just utterly stupid and I don't think that will change with the boy, he says all the time that it will make him stronger but it only makes him better in admitting his faults and in apologizing but I don't think he'll learn and adapt.
Jenson on the other hand has proven again that he's very smart and certainly has won over many more hearts at macca.
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
To call it "utterly stupid" is a little strong. It's racing. Yes, he risked too much, but the sport would be rather boring if we had a grid full of risk averse drivers. Each have their different styles. More often than not Hamilton's agression (not stupidity) works in his favour.
QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 17:28)
Oh I agree the championship is far from over but the one thing he shouldn't have done today he did do and that was taking too much and unnecessary risk and crashing out.
Mistakes or bad luck can happen no problem but this was just utterly stupid and I don't think that will change with the boy, he says all the time that it will make him stronger but it only makes him better in admitting his faults and in apologizing but I don't think he'll learn and adapt.
Jenson on the other hand has proven again that he's very smart and certainly has won over many more hearts at macca.
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
Mistakes or bad luck can happen no problem but this was just utterly stupid and I don't think that will change with the boy, he says all the time that it will make him stronger but it only makes him better in admitting his faults and in apologizing but I don't think he'll learn and adapt.
Jenson on the other hand has proven again that he's very smart and certainly has won over many more hearts at macca.
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
So does this rule also apply to Alonso and Vettel because they must then by your logic the daftest drivers in the paddock? This is the only major mistake and iam even stretching it looking at here......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL158zY6laM
.....to call it a mistake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL158zY6laM
I don't even know why Lewis blamed himself for that really. That was racing.
I don't even know why Lewis blamed himself for that really. That was racing.
QUOTE (Ricardo F1 @ Sep 12 2010, 17:21)
What? No the quotes on the front page say EXITING the pits, in the press conference I heard ENTERING. It makes no sense that he'd have shuddering tyres on exit - unless someone put them on wrong!
I don't know why you are confused. Jenson said the primes were shuddering which told him that they were too cold.
I think if Jenson stayed out longer, Ferrari would have pitted Massa first, who would have gotten the jump over Jenson later, so it was a no-win situation for MClaren.
Singapore is a Red Bull track, I don't think our guys will match'em there - I hope I'm wrong.
Singapore is a Red Bull track, I don't think our guys will match'em there - I hope I'm wrong.
QUOTE (P123 @ Sep 12 2010, 18:35)
To call it "utterly stupid" is a little strong. It's racing. Yes, he risked too much, but the sport would be rather boring if we had a grid full of risk averse drivers. Each have their different styles. More often than not Hamilton's agression (not stupidity) works in his favour.
Of course the "utterly stupid" is a personal interpretation but during his career there have been several of these "red mist" situations and he seems not to learn from them.
I agree that his aggressiveness is an asset but by pairing it with a brain he could do so much better and frankly I don't see that happening any time soon.
Anyway you're right it wasn't boring
QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 17:28)
Oh I agree the championship is far from over but the one thing he shouldn't have done today he did do and that was taking too much and unnecessary risk and crashing out.
Mistakes or bad luck can happen no problem but this was just utterly stupid and I don't think that will change with the boy, he says all the time that it will make him stronger but it only makes him better in admitting his faults and in apologizing but I don't think he'll learn and adapt.
Jenson on the other hand has proven again that he's very smart and certainly has won over many more hearts at macca.
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
Mistakes or bad luck can happen no problem but this was just utterly stupid and I don't think that will change with the boy, he says all the time that it will make him stronger but it only makes him better in admitting his faults and in apologizing but I don't think he'll learn and adapt.
Jenson on the other hand has proven again that he's very smart and certainly has won over many more hearts at macca.
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
This is where you are going wrong... this was just a racing incident. This type of thing happens in pretty much every race. Just because LH is involved does not make it "utterly stupid". [Edit: nor was it a "red mist" situation... this was pretty normal first lap racing].
and...The main reason why he is still in the WDC fight this seasonis his consistency (and therefore his risk assessment abilities), which has been compensating for the Macca's relative lack of speed.
If you look at the season as whole rather than this weekend in isolation, none of what you are saying is justified.
QUOTE (inca_roads @ Sep 12 2010, 17:01)
Well, that was a bad weekend for Lewis. Pretty much the only really bad one (judging his own performance) that he's had this season though. The incident was slightly unlucky, a slightly different contact and there would have been no oversteer and no crash. But things like this can go one way or the other, so it's not an excuse.
He'll bounce back, I'm sure.
Button drove a good race.
He'll bounce back, I'm sure.
Button drove a good race.
QUOTE (Smile17 @ Sep 12 2010, 16:55)
Jenson's so calm and clean and very consistent, most of the time. He's way better than Lewis, IMO.
WOW! Its always surprises my to see what a selective or short memory people have.
Is this the first race you ever watched?
I have been watching formula one for nearly 35 years now. Lewis is a gifted driver and i have seen many drivers. He is in his fourth season. Jenson has been here since 2000 that is six years more. Drivers make mistake all the times and you learn all the time. To call Hamilton stupid for a racing incident, a very minor mistake if you might call it is stretching it.
I like his driving and i admire Button for taking him head on and staying in touch. Why can't we just love the fact we have two back to back WDC in the title hunt?
I like his driving and i admire Button for taking him head on and staying in touch. Why can't we just love the fact we have two back to back WDC in the title hunt?
QUOTE (BillBald @ Sep 12 2010, 09:45)
I don't know why you are confused. Jenson said the primes were shuddering which told him that they were too cold.
My bad, just misheard.QUOTE (JPW @ Sep 12 2010, 09:28)
How would you feel sitting on Lewis' side of the garage, knowing that your man already took the wrong decision to go without F-duct then seeing him crash out foolishly only to see the other side of the garage fight for the win?
Um, how do you know that it was the wrong decision to go without the F-duct?? For qualifying, perhaps, we never saw the whole race play out. Can you just drop your hatred postings of Hamilton, they are SO boring.This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.