Read the post I was replying to Rob, I was just pointing out that it is possible for a driver to influence a gearbox breakage. Nothing more, nothing less.

Neither, it says something bad about the flawed strategy of having a long first stint.. or do you expect JB to do equivalent or better lap times than Lewis with tyres that have 26 more laps of tyre degradation?

.. not only that the tyre degradation was worse because was done during the "heavy" part of the race.

Its boring engineering maths, not magic or X is better than Y (sorry!)

The long/short stint does not work as well as the short/long even if you have the same tyres because on the long/short the degradation of the tyres (and therefore lap times) is related to the weight of the car and the long stint at the beginning is done from a full fuel tank. On the short/long when you put on the second set of tyres, which normally are brand new, you not only have the advantage of the new tyres and so will do quicker lap times, you also have the advantage of starting the tyres on a car which has less fuel than your competitor had for their long run (and therefore will degrade less during your long stint).

After Lewis's stop, (25/26) we see he was able to do a couple of very quick laps, you have to bear in mind that that on brand new tyres you have more grip over the first couple of laps and then it settles down, this is normal. Unfortunately some "extrapolate" this and do ridiculous statistics against it to appear favourable of their supported driver, but in effect is only as a direct result of new tyres.

I've seen some posts which put forward the theory that Lewis was "held up" on the first stint. Strangely enough looking at the FIA data, and re-watching the race there was at no point did Lewis put any pressure on Jenson and showed no signs of catching him. I think its obligatory to demonstrate to the other driver that you can go faster before they let you go through have traction problems.

..Also, how much of the "horrendous weekend" was self-inflicted, and did the other drivers have a much better weekend?...

Agreed but on the basis of the rest of his F1 career I find alternative explanations a lot more likely.

Credit where its due, but looking at whole career statistics massively advantages Hamilton and any other driver who has started their F1 career in the bullet-proof-reliability-era of the last few years.

But I wonder if Hamiltons DNF record would have been quite so rosy had he the misfortune to have driven the McLaren Peugeot or dare I say it, the early McMercs? And lets not get into BAR Honda's! Come on, in that all time DNF list, Hamilton is above Alberto Ascari! Hands up who thinks that says more about the drivers than, err, perhaps 4 decades of science!

The bottom line is comparing 2 teammates provides a comparable barometer.

No need, no neeeeed!

You've misunderstood me.

I'm comparing hamilton's record in 2010 to his record 2007-2009 and concluding it's unlikely he is particularly harsh on gearboxes and he's just been unfortunate this year.

Amazing how some people think a certain driver is entitled to the fastest car every year.

I think you're forgetting the actual scores then.

You better check those 'facts' before you try and defend this post.

Didn't he finish ahead of RB in 5 races out of the last 9?
There, saved you a job.

In 2006? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight


Or do you mean 2009? I dunno what your definition of "largely" is, but certainly it's not close to mine:

How Jenson 5-4 Rubens is largely?

I never looked

Apart from the 2 wins of Rubens he beat Jenson 4-3

It amazes me how some people still take this sub-stat out of context, refusing to acknoweledge that Button himself was driving to seal a Championship which he duly did. What was he supposed to do - drive flat out like Hamilton did in 2007?

Oh..

Credit where its due, but looking at whole career statistics massively advantages Hamilton and any other driver who has started their F1 career in the bullet-proof-reliability-era of the last few years.

But I wonder if Hamiltons DNF record would have been quite so rosy had he the misfortune to have driven the McLaren Peugeot or dare I say it, the early McMercs? And lets not get into BAR Honda's! Come on, in that all time DNF list, Hamilton is above Alberto Ascari! Hands up who thinks that says more about the drivers than, err, perhaps 4 decades of science!

The bottom line is comparing 2 teammates provides a comparable barometer.

So is Jenson still not driving flat out?

...and Lewis seems to be about 2 to 3 tenths quicker

You, sir, are a very bad man.

Excuse me, but what parallel universe are you in?

Like i said it was an impression that towards the end of the season Rubens was a little bit stronger, he won 2 races and finished with slightly more points

That's the bottom line. In 2 seasons fighting at the front for a Championship, Button has DNF's once through mechanical failure (Monaco - highly dubious) and twice through accidents where he was shunted out. He has not made a single race ending or race costing mistake and not one mechanical failure through what could even be inferred as driver related. THAT is pretty good going. Alright, he's not as quick or as brave as Hamilton - but he sure knows how to harvest points. And that is the name of the game at the end of the day. He's a top driver from that point of view. As is Hamilton from the other. Its not difficult to argue McLaren have the BEST possible driver line up in the respect that they have all the bases covered.

What made you think that he was talking about 2010?

What made you think that he was talking about lap times?

So much for being a freaking WUM

And was still beaten by Vettel.
Reality > your impressions

It seems to me whether Jenson is either leading or chasing a WDC he drives the same, the 2 to 3 tenths is the reason that most of the time Jenson finds himself behind Lewis, is the strategy of Lewis messing up more often than not a winnable one?

Well the fact is in the last 7 races Rubens won 2, Jenson won none, Rubens finished ahead of Jenson 4-3, Rubens scored more points than Jenson 32-29, so i think reality.

Well the fact is in the last 7 races Rubens won 2, Jenson won none, Rubens finished ahead of Jenson 4-3, Rubens scored more points than Jenson 32-29, so i think reality.

...and Lewis seems to be about 2 to 3 tenths quicker

You do make me laugh with your obsession with Mitchibata.

I think Nicole is way more attractive and talented but your devotion to her is impressive.

untill he crashes

(couldnt resist, I know my comments BS, sorry!)

And was still beaten by Vettel, when he could easily be a first runner up.
Reality > your impressions

In the final 9 races Rubens outscored Button on points, outqualified him more often than not and won 2 races to Button's zero, so your reaction to Yorkie's assertion that Rubens was a "little bit stronger" in that period is somewhat out of place. It would seem a fair summary, but apparently not. But that's what this topic is all about- fanboy madness!

You can only beat a WUM with a Counter-WUM, right?

Wind
Up
Merchant

Apparently.

Wind
Up
Merchant

Apparently.

I get how you assess the former (although for myself I can't separate them and will have to spend much more time 'studying' pictures and vids to make my mind up ) but how an earth did you decide on the latter?!

Jess's ability as a model v nicole's as a singer or...?!

^

Care to explain how exactly is it relevant to the question you quoted?




Seriously, Nicole prettier than Michibata?
Yeah, I think she would be quite pretty, without the fake solarium tan.

So is Jenson still not driving flat out?

Amen!

Last 7 races? I thought half of the season was 9 races? Nevermind the dominance of Brawns ending after the 7th race?

I'm sorry, but your bias towards Lewis Hamilton is amazing.
Have you watched Brazil 2009? Bahrein 2006? Monza 2010? Great Britain 2010? hell, first couple of laps in Spa this year?
I wonder if you watch how anyone drives apart from you precious "hero"....

I think it had more to do with his qualifying problems, no? In the races Button was excellent at moving up from lowly grid spots. I doubt he wanted to make his championship that difficult for himself!

Wow - just think in a little under 5 weeks time we will have the answer to this thread.

What will you all do overthe winter......probably lots of gloating on whoever wins.

For me Hamilton has had the edge all season. He was faster than Button this weekend as he has been many others.

Button may just pip him in the points total though as Hamilton does have a tendency to bin it. I think the wreck on friday morning shows us all what kind of racing driver he is. He had crashed out the last two races, anyone else would have taken it easy - not Lewis first flying lap fastest by half a second - second flyer smash into the wall. he just doesnt know how to do it any differently. Personally thats why I support him.

If button does pip him in the points battle then that would be great too. Button has really shown his mettle these last couple of years. he may not have the outright pace but hes there or there abouts.

Its been a fascinating season.

just to add this thread needs more pics of jensons girlfriend. Dont ask why. it just does ok!

Thanks. Some people will think that Buttons record of ZERO at-fault retirements in 2 years is incredible, whilst others will flipantly think 'well of course he won't make as many mistakes or break the car if he is not as aggressive'. To which I would chuckle to myself and think: "That is the whole point of the plan"!

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?show...p;#entry4222131

I'm still waiting in anticipation for this to happn

Your correct that his less aggressive approach is key to him finishing races and scoring points, but its not going to win him a championship. Look at what happened at the start between him and Alonso and the same between him and Lewis in Singapore.

The usual suspects who are objective and don't have his poster on our wall and follow what he does and what his girlfriend does every moment of their lives.;)

Excellent singer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQvU9MCUr0Q
Excellent comedy actress: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT-9DaCCgPY
Excellent dancer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKDaNyaAaiU
Excellent judge: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthr...ole+scherzinger

You asked.

She's quarter Russian, quarter Hawaiian and half Filipino - hence don't think she needs any enhancements to her tan.

I think the difference for Hamilton is that he will try to overtake the car infront WHENEVER he can. Hats off to him for that. And for Button it is whenever he feels he has the pace and the strategy to mitigate enough risk to make it worth it. E.g. overtaking Alonso at Canada.

Anyone trying to paint a picture that its 100% for Hamilton and 0% for Button who ALWAYS just sits there waiting for things to happen is just not to be taken seriously. Hamilton is better and more agressive in this area definately. Button has a seriously high success rate when he does go for it, which is impressive nonetheless. 2 different styles. When oh when are people going to get that.

I have posted a quotation that I have either seen on a post-race quick TV interview or read today and that has called my attention.
Threads move on and hours later a reply may not get noticed by the poster it was intended for, hence the PM.
If I find the source then I will be happy to PM you as well.

BrawnGP was a peculiar team last year. They got it right straight out of the box, but then their developments brought the car out of the sweet spot Button was enjoying in dominating the first half of the season. I contend that Ross put a lot of effort into helping Rubens come to terms with the car. Then he determined (correctly) that Button's point advantage would hold up and they didn't seem to make much of an effort to solve Button's tyre warmup problem. It could have been a money issue as well. This was a key to Button leaving the team IMO.

The fact that Jenson couldnt keep up with Alonso is a sure sign that Jenson was holding up Lewis, wasnt Lewis catching Alonso up to his gearbox problem?

I get how you assess the former (although for myself I can't separate them and will have to spend much more time 'studying' pictures and vids to make my mind up ) but how an earth did you decide on the latter?!

Jess's ability as a model v nicole's as a singer or...?!

I always felt that Ross tried to let Rubens "catch up" to Jenson, since the Brawn cars were so dominate anyway. Considering their history at Ferrari together, I wondered if Brawn felt he should try to give Rubens a shot at the title. Unless something crazy happens, it was Rubens "last chance". This would go a long way to explaining Jenson's slightly paranoid attitude last year, even though he was heading for a title. No wonder he moved to McLaren and I bet his contract has a VERY tight equal status clause that lasts at least TWO years.

Excellent singer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQvU9MCUr0Q
Excellent comedy actress: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT-9DaCCgPY
Excellent dancer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKDaNyaAaiU
Excellent judge: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthr...ole+scherzinger

You asked.

lh and jb pace was close all weekend jb went for the wrong strategy it was the slower tyre thats why lewis was all over the back of him was because jb was on the slower tyre if he was on the softs it would have been a different story

lh and jb pace was close all weekend jb went for the wrong strategy it was the slower tyre thats why lewis was all over the back of him was because jb was on the slower tyre if he was on the softs it would have been a different story

I worry about you.