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ImDDAA
QUOTE (teejay @ Nov 6 2010, 17:56) *
Im a McLaren fan actually, and thats a fair description of what went down.

Watching all the Button fans come across this year with the thoughts he was good enough to do Lewis over has been worth a few laughs recently.


Jenson was 'pathetic' today by being three 10ths of a second off Hamilton. Yeah, totally fair.

Hamilton is arguably the best racer on the grid, to be within three tenths isn't 'pathetic' in any way what-so-ever. Was Hamilton pathetic when he was three 10ths off Jenson earlier in the season btw?
glorius&victorius
QUOTE (ImDDAA @ Nov 6 2010, 18:59) *
Jenson was 'pathetic' today by being three 10ths of a second off Hamilton. Yeah, totally fair.

Hamilton is arguably the best racer on the grid, to be within three tenths isn't 'pathetic' in any way what-so-ever. Was Hamilton pathetic when he was three 10ths off Jenson earlier in the season btw?


was great seeing ron in the garage... i wonder what he really thinks of jenson
teejay
QUOTE (ImDDAA @ Nov 7 2010, 01:59) *
Jenson was 'pathetic' today by being three 10ths of a second off Hamilton. Yeah, totally fair.

Hamilton is arguably the best racer on the grid, to be within three tenths isn't 'pathetic' in any way what-so-ever. Was Hamilton pathetic when he was three 10ths off Jenson earlier in the season btw?


Well yes and no -

You have to say yes, because you cant say one is and other isnt - thats just biased and rude.

But the big part in all of this is context - early this season wasnt a vital near end of season title deciding quali session.

For his own hopes, for the hopes of McLaren, and for the hope he could maybe help Lewis tomorrow if things didnt suit his dwindling WDC bid, then yes, it was a pathetic result to fall out of things at Q2.

ImDDAA
Yeah, pathetic being three 10ths off Hamilton. I'm wasting my time, I'm done with you.
mlsnoopy
Slowly the difference in quality is being shown
pinkypants
QUOTE (mlsnoopy @ Nov 6 2010, 18:08) *
Slowly the difference in quality is being shown



Not just on the track, but with the quality of posting on this thread..
P123
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Nov 6 2010, 18:04) *
was great seeing ron in the garage... i wonder what he really thinks of jenson


That he's far better than Heikki?
teejay
QUOTE (ImDDAA @ Nov 7 2010, 02:07) *
Yeah, pathetic being three 10ths off Hamilton. I'm wasting my time, I'm done with you.


Ill ask you then - what do you quantify being outed in Q2 and starting 11th in the 3rd best car in the field in a vital round of the season as?

BinaryDad
QUOTE (ImDDAA @ Nov 6 2010, 18:54) *
Jesus, stop giving Hamilton fans a bad name.


He's not. He's just saying how he calls it...which is pretty close to how I view it. Jenson did better than I expected, but that's as far as it goes.
Bonaventura
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Nov 6 2010, 19:04) *
was great seeing ron in the garage... i wonder what he really thinks of jenson

at Singapore GP
Q: What do you think for the race ?
RD: We start from the clean side on the track
(Lewis P3, Button P4)
rm111
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Nov 6 2010, 18:04) *
was great seeing ron in the garage... i wonder what he really thinks of jenson

Great to see him still rocking the leather jacket lol.gif
Lights
QUOTE (teejay @ Nov 6 2010, 19:13) *
Ill ask you then - what do you quantify being outed in Q2 and starting 11th in the 3rd best car in the field in a vital round of the season as?

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2010/825/6710/
jjcale
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Nov 6 2010, 18:04) *
was great seeing ron in the garage... i wonder what he really thinks of jenson


More important is what Whitmarsh thinks... the cameras caught him shaking his head at JB in FP... again.

I really hope JB pulls it together and just follows what the engineers say re set up and goes back to the way he was at the start of the season... positive and upbeat... he should treat being at Macca like being in a relationship and realise that he has to say and do the right things and try to win the team over afresh every weekend... cut out he moaning, smile even if things dont go well. Pledge support even if he does not mean it... he needs to go back to playing the game he was playing at the start of the season.
ImDDAA
QUOTE (BinaryDad @ Nov 6 2010, 18:17) *
He's not. He's just saying how he calls it...which is pretty close to how I view it. Jenson did better than I expected, but that's as far as it goes.


Yes, I think we can all agree that being three 10ths off arguably the best racer on the grid is pathetic, there's solid logic behind that there thinking.
Jay
QUOTE (jjcale @ Nov 6 2010, 18:25) *
More important is what Whitmarsh thinks... the cameras caught him shaking his head at JB in FP... again.

I really hope JB pulls it together and just follows what the engineers say re set up and goes back to the way he was at the start of the season... positive and upbeat... he should treat being at Macca like being in a relationship and realise that he has to say and do the right things and try to win the team over afresh every weekend... cut out he moaning, smile even if things dont go well. Pledge support even if he does not mean it... he needs to go back to playing the game he was playing at the start of the season.


You of all people should know that it is almost impossible to do that when spending a season across the garage from Lewis. It gradually eats away at drivers, to the point that Jenson is at today.
ImDDAA
QUOTE (Lights @ Nov 6 2010, 18:25) *


Come to think of it, every single driver on the grid is pathetic.
teejay
QUOTE (Lights @ Nov 7 2010, 02:25) *


Directing my attention to something all of us already know and not answering my question only leads me to believe there can be no good words said about todays result for Jenson.

And as I wrote above, you would also have to call that result pathetic by Lewis.
robefc
QUOTE (zack1994 @ Nov 6 2010, 17:44) *
not in the same class as alonso but alonso was 4 tenths behind lewis in brazil 2007 jb 2010 brazil 3 tenths behind also take into account that jb didnt get a second because of inters going he would have definatly got in with that lap look at q1 he was right with hamilton he was unlucky


Zack, you do realise jenson ha something to do with the inters going off right?
Grenada
QUOTE (Jay @ Nov 6 2010, 17:40) *
He was held by RK



He clearly was, and yet DC on the BBC sniped that he didn't understand why Hamilton was unhappy, maybe he made some mistakes in the lap. Don't these idiots watch the bleeding thing? Sick of the BBC coverage.
Grenada
QUOTE (teejay @ Nov 6 2010, 17:48) *
Jenson - flattered by a brilliant brawn chasis and mercedes engine in the first half of 09 to manage to crawl to the 2009 WDC after falling apart in the second half.

Goes to McLaren where his new found WDC has given his fans the confidence that he is just as good as every other wdc, including the one preceeding him, one Lewis Hamilton

Couple of lucky moments in Australia and China give him 2 wins in the early part of 2010, and omg look - he is better than Lewis who cant even win.

Ever since those moments, its been a steady beating by Lewis - the points mask just how much better Lewis has been for 90% of this season.

Today was pathetic. Korea was pathetic.



100% agree. Totally!!
Johnrambo
Whitmarsh must be kicking himself now that they didn't agree to Kimi's terms whatever they were and unless he really was dedicated on WRC. Button has been terrible lately.
Grenada
QUOTE (ImDDAA @ Nov 6 2010, 17:54) *
Jesus, stop giving Hamilton fans a bad name.



He's not - he's saying it like it is. I wish people would stop tippie toeing around the facts.
jjcale
QUOTE (Grenada @ Nov 6 2010, 18:38) *
He clearly was, and yet DC on the BBC sniped that he didn't understand why Hamilton was unhappy, maybe he made some mistakes in the lap. Don't these idiots watch the bleeding thing? Sick of the BBC coverage.


Its time for DC to be replaced IMO... he's got bored and lazy and adds nothing to the show. EJ is now looking like the sensible one.
Grenada
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Nov 6 2010, 18:04) *
was great seeing ron in the garage... i wonder what he really thinks of jenson



I always love seeing him there. It must give Hamilton a real boost.
Jay
QUOTE (Grenada @ Nov 6 2010, 18:38) *
He clearly was, and yet DC on the BBC sniped that he didn't understand why Hamilton was unhappy, maybe he made some mistakes in the lap. Don't these idiots watch the bleeding thing? Sick of the BBC coverage.


Jealousy can do terrible things to people.

You can see this jealousy, whenever Lewis is in the same circle as DC, Jake and Eddie. They literally look sick to the stomach with him.

I know it sounds a bit crazy, but he brings this out in people. It's not his fault, but it is a consequence of being such a strong character and talent. He's big enough to deal with it, so you should, friend smile.gif

In the same way he draws massive positive emotion from you, he draws negative emotion in equal proportion from them.
jjcale
QUOTE (Jay @ Nov 6 2010, 18:29) *
You of all people should know that it is almost impossible to do that when spending a season across the garage from Lewis. It gradually eats away at drivers, to the point that Jenson is at today.


Earlier in the season, I said:

1 season with LH, sent FA to the midfield.
2 seasons, sent HK to the back of the grid.
If JB sees out his contract he might end up driving tin tops.

... I was only half joking.
olliek88
QUOTE (teejay @ Nov 6 2010, 17:56) *
Im a McLaren fan actually, and thats a fair description of what went down.

Watching all the Button fans come across this year with the thoughts he was good enough to do Lewis over has been worth a few laughs recently.


if your a true mclaren fan then why the negativity to one of thier drivers? 3 tenths down on lewis hamilton is not pathetic, china 2007 alonso was 6 tenths slower than LH in dry conditions, does that make him pathetic? come mate please get some perpective.
ImDDAA
QUOTE (Grenada @ Nov 6 2010, 18:41) *
He's not - he's saying it like it is. I wish people would stop tippie toeing around the facts.


You agree with him 100% - so Jenson was 'pathetic' by being three 10ths behind Lewis today? What was Lewis when he was three 10ths + off Buttons pace? Was Lewis Hamilton pathetic on those occasions?

How far off your team mate can you be and not be pathetic? Cause three 10ths of a second isn't a huge amount of time...but just enough to make you pathetic, right?

I know you're going to carry on arguing, even though clearly you have nothing to stand on, and this will just go back and forth with your wishy washy fanboyism clouding every single judgement you make so let's wrap this one up quickly with me conceding. Jenson Button is pathetic for being three 10ths of one single solitary second behind the best or second best driver on the track. Pathetic. The End.
WIC
QUOTE (Jay @ Nov 6 2010, 12:28) *
When did Whitlesss say he will be seeking out Vettel?.... Linky? smile.gif

p.s. Good morning folks.... Lookin' forward to Quali?



http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport/story/28490.html

QUOTE
"I am open and honest enough to admit it," Whitmarsh confirmed. "Sebastian is one of the great and promising talents, and we at McLaren wanted to have him. We were not able to sign him at that time."
...
"If he continues to develop so fantastically, then at the end of his contract I will try once again to get him," revealed Whitmarsh.
undersquare
I guess for Jense the devil is to say he's not as fast as Lewis and the deep blue sea is to keep blaming the tyres, setup and whatnot and building a rep as a whinger.

Kovy was amazingly tough about it I thought, just used to talk about the cornering style a little bit.

For Fernando it was a range of things all bit nebulous like atmosphere. Though brakes and tyre pressures did make a appearance.

Well it's an old problem in racing, with no real answer. Though I liked Patrese's style coping with Mansell.
Jay
QUOTE (WIC @ Nov 6 2010, 18:53) *


Thanks smile.gif up.gif up.gif up.gif up.gif
Grenada
QUOTE (Jay @ Nov 6 2010, 18:42) *
Jealousy can do terrible things to people.

You can see this jealousy, whenever Lewis is in the same circle as DC, Jake and Eddie. They literally look sick to the stomach with him.

I know it sounds a bit crazy, but he brings this out in people. It's not his fault, but it is a consequence of being such a strong character and talent. He's big enough to deal with it, so you should, friend smile.gif

In the same way he draws massive positive emotion from you, he draws negative emotion in equal proportion from them.



Very well observed. smile.gif

I'm sure LH must get sick of it sometimes, puts on a brave face, and has a good whinge to Nicole. cool.gif
Jay
QUOTE (Grenada @ Nov 6 2010, 18:56) *
and has a good whinge to Nicole. cool.gif


Not a bad prospect facing you after an interview with the Beeb... Makes putting up with them worthwhile cool.gif
Grenada
QUOTE (jjcale @ Nov 6 2010, 18:43) *
Earlier in the season, I said:

1 season with LH, sent FA to the midfield.
2 seasons, sent HK to the back of the grid.
If JB sees out his contract he might end up driving tin tops.

... I was only half joking.



lol.gif

But what do they expect. I know Alonso didn't know what to expect.

But surely Heikki did, and Button did? They can't have expected him to be less competitive with them as teammates.
ImDDAA
QUOTE (undersquare @ Nov 6 2010, 18:54) *
I guess for Jense the devil is to say he's not as fast as Lewis and the deep blue sea is to keep blaming the tyres, setup and whatnot and building a rep as a whinger.

Kovy was amazingly tough about it I thought, just used to talk about the cornering style a little bit.

For Fernando it was a range of things all bit nebulous like atmosphere. Though brakes and tyre pressures did make a appearance.

Well it's an old problem in racing, with no real answer. Though I liked Patrese's style coping with Mansell.


I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that Jenson is anyway near as quick or good as Lewis, to do so is to ignore the truth - but what we have here is people going off the deep end because Jenson doesn't perform to Lewis' standards. Jenson has scored 189 points in arguably the third best car this year, he currently sits 5th in the drivers championship. I'd call that pretty solid.
simplyfast
heres a question that no one seams to be asking of Jenson and his performance.
11 years in F1 9 years does not do much at all.
One year the boy does good.
Next year he is back to the performance of the first 9 years.
So why do some people think the one year is the rule not the exception?
Is the real fact, Jenson is performing to his limits this year and last year he over performed to what is his normal standard?

Please note this is not a dig but simply asking a question.
IMHO i think this is as good as Jenson really is and that last year a combination of luck, a car that was perfect for him and the red bulls destroying their chances flattered Jenson.


But i still think he is the best team mate to Lewis for McLaren right now, and i still say he is a worthy WDC.
zack1994
QUOTE (robefc @ Nov 6 2010, 18:35) *
Zack, you do realise jenson ha something to do with the inters going off right?

i know that but the overeaction on this thread is astonishing alonso 4 tenths behind 2007 jb 3 tenths behind 2010 i dont get it it will be a great race though
ImDDAA
QUOTE (simplyfast @ Nov 6 2010, 19:05) *
heres a question that no one seams to be asking of Jenson and his performance.
11 years in F1 9 years does not do much at all.
One year the boy does good.
Next year he is back to the performance of the first 9 years.
So why do some people think the one year is the rule not the exception?
Is the real fact, Jenson is performing to his limits this year and last year he over performed to what is his normal standard?

Please note this is not a dig but simply asking a question.
IMHO i think this is as good as Jenson really is and that last year a combination of luck, a car that was perfect for him and the red bulls destroying their chances flattered Jenson.


But i still think he is the best team mate to Lewis for McLaren right now, and i still say he is a worthy WDC.


He's 21 points behind Hamilton, it's not that bad! I think Jenson finally got a good car last year, that's the real exception. It's widely considered that he's not in the same class as Alonso and Hamilton but he's certainly near the top, I think he has proven that this year.
BinaryDad
QUOTE (ImDDAA @ Nov 6 2010, 19:27) *
Yes, I think we can all agree that being three 10ths off arguably the best racer on the grid is pathetic, there's solid logic behind that there thinking.


Three tenths is an absolute ice-age when it comes to being in the same machinery at ideal fuel levels and with clean air ahead of you. If it were something like .05 seconds difference then I would agree with your point here, but it's not.


bauss
I fully understand the tendency to gloat considering some of what has been written here in the past months.... and considering, you still have some who keep blindly insisting there is very little to choose btw both drivers...

but I think on the face of it, relative to the competition...Jenson has had a decent season. He has scored decent points all year and deserves credit for hanging in the WDC race til 2 races to go in a 3rd best car. That is not a pathetic performance on its own merits... when the season is over, Jens would likely be in my top 5 performers of the season.

Do not be surprised if he scores decent points tmrw....

what I find funny though is how BBC presenters/pundits always keep repeating Jens excuses verbatim, I've yet to see them say what it is...that Lewis is just faster driver. They may grudgingly allude to that in some obtuse way about how Lewis can driver round a car problems...but never directly say it.

Compared to their commentary of the RedBull or Ferrari drivers...they are quick to say Alonso is quicker than Massa, n Vettel is quicker than Webber, even though the average margin of Vettel over Webber is much smaller than Lewis over Jenson...
ImDDAA
QUOTE (BinaryDad @ Nov 6 2010, 19:18) *
Three tenths is an absolute ice-age when it comes to being in the same machinery at ideal fuel levels and with clean air ahead of you. If it were something like .05 seconds difference then I would agree with your point here, but it's not.


I don't think you realise what it takes to hook a lap up and how the subtle differences in the choices you make can effect your lap time, to claim these subtle factors somehow constitute a person being pathetic or a performance being pathetic is hyperbolic nonsense. It's only an ice age on the qualifying table due to the closeness in the machinery, in reality it's a couple blinks of the eye.
ImDDAA
QUOTE (bauss @ Nov 6 2010, 19:25) *
I fully understand the tendency to gloat considering some of what has been written here in the past months.... and considering, you still have some who keep blindly insisting there is very little to choose btw both drivers...

but I think on the face of it, relative to the competition...Jenson has had a decent season. He has scored decent points all year and deserves credit for hanging in the WDC race til 2 races to go in a 3rd best car. That is not a pathetic performance on its own merits... when the season is over, Jens would likely be in my top 5 performers of the season.

Do not be surprised if he scores decent points tmrw....


Your common sense is burning my eyes.
trogggy
QUOTE (BinaryDad @ Nov 6 2010, 20:18) *
Three tenths is an absolute ice-age when it comes to being in the same machinery at ideal fuel levels and with clean air ahead of you. If it were something like .05 seconds difference then I would agree with your point here, but it's not.

Only 3 teams have smaller gaps in quali between team-mates this year than Mclaren - Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Lotus.
Link.
So assuming LH is as fast as most people seem to think there must be some truly pathetic drivers in F1.
I'd put the true gap between them at a bit more than three tenths today though.
Bonaventura
As long as Lewis beats Button, I'm happy
I don't care about xy ths
JackTorrance
Im a big fan of Button but THIS PERFORMANCE IS NOT HOW A WORLD CHAMPION SHOULD BE!!!!!! These last 2 races are -NOT- acceptable. He needs to sit down with Whitmarsh and the rest of the team to get on top of these howlers of performance. Even Heikki, tied down and all by Anthony & co, did a better job vs Lewis in qualifying. Im very disapointed.

No more trips to Japan, no more vacation time, no more private jet relaxation...just hard labour, 20 hours a day and earn that 8 million pounds a year.
robefc
QUOTE (trogggy @ Nov 6 2010, 19:28) *
Only 3 teams have smaller gaps in quali between team-mates this year than Mclaren - Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Lotus.
Link.
So assuming LH is as fast as most people seem to think there must be some truly pathetic drivers in F1.
I'd put the true gap between them at a bit more than three tenths today though.


Averages can be distorted by outliers, I imagine a median gap would be larger, the head to head is pretty convincing as well.

Frankly though the gap/head to head should be worse for button, I think lewis had the pace in china and he span in malaysia, monza was a bit of a strange q3 or lewis although I'm not saying he'd have qualified ahead.

None of which makes jenson pathetic, he's just generaly a tad slower over one lap than lewis.
trogggy
QUOTE (robefc @ Nov 6 2010, 20:35) *
Averages can be distorted by outliers, I imagine a median gap would be larger, the head to head is pretty convincing as well.

Frankly though the gap/head to head should be worse for button, I think lewis had the pace in china and he span in malaysia, monza was a bit of a strange q3 or lewis although I'm not saying he'd have qualified ahead.

None of which makes jenson pathetic, he's just generaly a tad slower over one lap than lewis.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. The 'pathetic' comments make for an easy way to categorize posters, so I'm all for them. biggrin.gif
marcoferrari
QUOTE (Jay @ Nov 6 2010, 17:54) *
Go wash your mouth out.

Jenson "smooth as silk" Button has never destroyed a set of tyres in his driving life..... bleh to you!



roflmao.gif lol.gif up.gif
marcoferrari
Button s pace looks better in qualifying this year... The gap is about 2 tenths to Hamilton... But in race it is over 4 tenths in average after 17 races so far... Similar situation is between Massa and Alonso...
Lights
QUOTE (teejay @ Nov 6 2010, 19:30) *
Directing my attention to something all of us already know and not answering my question only leads me to believe there can be no good words said about todays result for Jenson.

And as I wrote above, you would also have to call that result pathetic by Lewis.

Luckily for me I wasn't trying to answer any question. And no, I wouldn't call any result like that pathetic.
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