I don't know about Button's driving style, but I was a bit surprised Rubens could be comfortably faster than Button when he found something extra in the setup. Button isn't very good at car setup, is he?

Obviously neutral is fastest and any sliding is bad.

* bolts before the engineers arrive *

personally, i think Hamilton will beat Button hands down.
should Button be competetive with Hamilton i will be pleasantly surprised, but Hamilton will definitely come out of this on top.

Put me down for Hamilton to be quicker, but I think it will be Like Vettel v Webber.

Hamilton will be the quicker driver, but Button will be close behind like Webber....he could easily end up in front of Lewis on occasion...something I can't remember Heikki doing once.

Button just needs to fix his qualifying and make sure he dosnt play second fiddle to lewis (for some reason i can see him willingly playing a supporting role for lewis) and i could see him being very competative. However if he does play "second fiddle" im thinking he could end up as one of the best if not THE best support driver on the grid with his ability to bring the car home (in the points if the cars fast) to secure that WCC. But personally i hope him and lewis are battling equally the whole season so COME ON BUTTON GET YOUR QUALIFYING RIGHT IN 2010!

i do have a few wonders IF (waiting for it to be official) button and lewis are team mates, Will the friendship between them degrade? or will the friendship between them stay? will there be any "questionable circumstances" with similaritys to alonso/hamilton?


Whatever happens DANG 2010 is looking like its going to be an incredible season i cant wait!

I'd be disappointed if JB moved to Mac. I was hoping for a LH vs KR battle and LH+KR vs FA+FM battle. LH+JB vs FA+FM just doesn't have an EPIC BATTLE ring to it. Yes he won the WDC this year, and deservedly so, but he's never been a driver that blows me away-even on his good day.
Just my opinion.

Aside from you being your typical arrogant, condescending prick self, it's obvious you haven't read much Twain. After all, there are three types of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics.

His first season with Ralf was his rookie year. Ralf had a ton more miles in a F1 car than Jenson did. That makes a huge difference. Quick drivers aren't just guys who get in the car and immediately adjust, which you seem to think they are and arrogantly demean anyone who disagree with you. (Ralf, BTW, wasn't that bad of a driver.)

You seem to have this idea that drivers are robots. They just get in the car and perform to the absolute best of their ability in every millisecond of every race they run in their lives. You seriously undervalue the human side of F1 drivers, which very much determines in part their performance levels. It was well known that Button did not apply himself adequately during his time at Benetton/Renault, i.e. when he was paired with the Italians. Button has admitted as much.

Barrichello is a damned quick F1 driver.

According to John Watson, Prost had some great things to say about

Oh, and no indication of him being a very, very quick driver? A championship indicates otherwise. You seem to have very little respect for just how hard it is to win anything in F1, even with the best car. Championships separate the best from the rest.



You're right; Barrichello did resolve his braking issues, which is why he started doing better than he had.

There was a very good technical article on the difference between Button and Barrichello. Button is a more linear, smoother braker and has a great feel for the amount of momentum that can be carried into a corner. However, because he's a smoother braker, he's also slower to put heat into the brakes, which in turn puts heat into the tires at a slower rate. Barrichello, on the other hand, is a "slammer" on brakes; he's quite abrupt and harsh in his braking. He's quicker to get heat into the tires and brakes this way, but he also runs the risk of overheating both, especially over race runs. This is exactly what he did early in the year, and Rubens himself admitted that he had issues with the rear calipers overheating.

So, the season went about as should be expected; edge to Jenson in the warm races, edge to Rubens in the cool ones. Edge to Jenson on race runs, edge to Rubens in qualifying.

And again, I reiterate; being as talented as Rubens Barrichello is not a bad thing to be. I consider him to be a very, very quick F1 driver, as well. In my view, he's been one of the best drivers in F1 for more than a decade.



I expect Hamilton to adapt. I also expect him to beat Jenson if indeed they pair up. I just don't think that Jenson is getting enough credit here.

You can have your opinion of Jenson, and that's fine. But you don't have to be such a condescending prick toward others who disagree with you. But I've almost given up trying to convince you not to be condescending and arrogant SOB and nearly come to accept that it's just in your nature.

What about against Fisichella and Trulli? I guess you couldnt think of any other excuses?




Rubens had the edge on button from silverstone in warm and cool races, and dominated him from silverstone despite bad luck at, spa, singapore and brazil. Whatever the reason, like the one you have put forward the point is rubens was too good for him once he got himself sorted, and while rubens is a quick driver, at 37, hes clearly no comparision to Hamilton, which is why I believe Hamilton will thrash him.

I'm not worried about Jense and Lewis - I'm more worried about this

Barrichello only really thrashed Button in Britain and Valencia. For the rest of the time, he was usually only one or two places ahead, and he finished behind Button in Singapore, Brazil and Abu Dhabi.

You mean the race where he got a grid penalty for changing his gearbox? (Singapore)
Or the one where he got a puncture and had to take an unscheduled pit stop? (Brazil)
Or maybe the race his front wing was damaged in the first turn and his car suffered from understeer all race long? (Abu Dhabi)

Guess who qualified in front of who during those three races. Cmon! Guess.

Back to your condescending prick tone, calling my counterarguments "excuses" for a driver rather than respect them as legitimate arguments. You really are an arrogant prat, you know that?

I gave an explanation for Fisi and Trulli when I discussed his performance against "the Italians." Reading is a fundamental skill for success in human society; you should master it.

It's not an excuse that Button was a lazy prat and playboy who was not committing himself enough for success in F1 early in his career. Button had a fantastic opportunity to come to F1 at an early age, and for the most part he wasted it. He was damned lucky to get the seat with BAR, and he finally made the most of that opportunity in whooping JV in his own team.



Rubens had the edge in qualifying in warm races. Button had the edge in race pace in warm races. The exception would be Valencia, but that's really down to Jenson just not having a great weekend rather than part of a larger trend. The last time I checked, points are awarded for race finishes.

I don't think Rubens is that far behind Lewis. McLaren must not, either, as they apparently approached him. Based on what I've read, I think he's the best driver on the grid at setting up and developing a car, which is definitely an advantage.

The drivers as a whole aren't that far off; most experts say the separation from top-to-bottom driver in natural driving pace is about three-tenths of a second. (Exceptions being guys like Nakajima, who I've read Williams sources says is a couple of tenths off being a legitimate F1 driver) Personally, I think guys like Nico Rosberg and Anthony Davidson know much more of what they're talking about than you when they say that. They've certainly done more to earn the right to be condescending pricks toward F1 fans about the topic, which you haven't done yet insist on being one instead.

I hate calling you out personally like this, and I don't do it to anyone else. You are the only person on here I've encountered who is needlessly condescending, arrogant, and vile toward other posters on here who disagree with you. I disagree with you often, but I don't demean your intelligence or the legitimacy of your argument when you make them; I just state my counterargument. I'm calling you out personally because of the way you treat other posters.

Here's to hoping maybe you can be more respectful in the future of others with another opinion, but I'm sure you won't be.

So it's being reported widely as a done deal now, but not officially announced just yet... Maybe later today. Who'd have thought eh? Many said it wouldn't happen because there would be too much risk for Jense. I don't know though. We'll actually get to see and that does excite me, like Alonso/Massa at Ferrari.

I do think that 2 Brits together is the one scenario where you can have 2 champs and no volatility.

Yes, he prefers it. It's rear-end stability that Jenson likes whilst Lewis prefers oversteer.

Sorry to be pedantic, but Ralf. And It's McLaren too while I'm at it. You're worse than Gordon Brown (A reference that possibly only the Brits will get)

Button had some problems with qualy, but his race pace was always excellent in 2009. Exactly opposite to Heikki, who had no race pace.

Still started ahead of JB and was slower in the race.

He had mechanical problems with the car, the brakes were very problematic for Rubens very early in the race.

I still don't believe it. I'll only believe it untill Mclaren comes with an official statement or if Brawn GP/Mercedes comes with official news about it's driver line-up next season.

I personally think that Jenson wanted his 6 million paycheck and a 3 years contract and Mclaren said that his demands are attractive enough to warrent him a seat possibly. But they are still waiting on Kimi if he is able to make reasonable demands that Mclaren finds acceptable.

This news is more suprising then Toyota leaving F1 to be honest if he does end up at Mclaren

Exactly the reason he looks like he´s driving on ice all the time.

You just completely forgot Rubens' gearbox change, and his usual fuel rig problem in the box.

Button and Barrichello eventually were in equal strategic position in Monza, and who won that race? In fact, Rubens was better in 7 out of the last 10 races.

Is the pit lane big enough for that many hanger-ons!

In seriousness I think its gonna be great. Lewis is the best qualifier and wheel to wheel racer and Jenson is the most consistent at optimising his race strategy but needs to improve qual. They will be a great driving line up and all British in a British team Put this up against the all German drivers at Mercedes and the all Latino drivers at Ferrari and we are in for an awesome season! Like I said in a thread a few weeks ago, a great version of A1GP!

However, Ive got this niggling feeling that Jenson will become the new DC at McHamilton. I really want both drivers to do as well as possible and if both drivers are in contention for wins from the start of next season Im sure McLaren will take their first WCC since 98. Jenson and McLaren in particular will be extra motivated to beat their former colleagues over at MGP.

On equal strategies I call it about 13-6 to Lewis in Q and 10-9 to Lewis in races.

But none of them can have been particularly good since Ross seem quite uninterested in keeping them.

Put it simply Jense should be faster than Heikki no doubt, but as fast as Lewis is a fair stretch.

In the tight stuff and in esses then to be able to steer the back end means you can get the car pointing down the track earlier and get on the power sooner. Also Lewis uses that to load the rears more in-line and less laterally, under acceleration, and that's apparently the thing Kovy hasn't been able to match so his rears wear faster.

Obviously oversteer can be overdone .

And because it's inherently less stable then the extent to which it can be controlled to really deliver the extra speed varies from one driver to another. Lewis is pretty much at an extreme, Jense more in the middle probably.

A few degrees of slip on the tyre is the fastest way to corner. Ergo - oversteer rules.

I've got to say I'm disappointed with the information coming out at the moment. I would prefer to have Lewis and Kimi at McLaren to be honest. I hope it still happens, however Kimi stated/hinted that he wasn't really going to be swayed on his offer.

Sorry but 'lazy play boy' is a really pathetic and unsubstantiated excuse. Button was fighting for his career so that excuse doesnt hold water. In 2003 David richards ran a very public campaign to get rid of the over paid JV, so button had number 1 status and even still he barely beat jv.



Its no use having a race pace advantage when you consistently qualify well behind your team mate. Points are awarded for race finishes and rubens beat button in points from silverstone onwards. If a 37 year old rubens was too good for him, how will he not be crushed by hamilton?




You say the drivers as a whole are not far off, yet look at the gap in performance between Alonso and Hamiltons team mates. There clearly is a sizeable gap between some drivers, regardless of what you think davidson and rosberg said.


This forum is full of that type of behaviour and im often on the receiving end of it. You might not be but thats because your playing with the home team here. I only dish what i recieve.

That's my take too, but i'm happy to be proved wrong

And then compare Alonso to Lewis?

Why then can't we compare Button to Barrichello, then both Barichello and Massa to MS, then Kimi to Massa...

Could it be because that way of doing things doesn't suit you, despite it being more recent evidence?

Tire management would be interesting.

problem i see if this is true, is how can JB get the team to develop the car to his liking? Hamilton has the mclaren car honed to his liking and all in-season developments are to maximise his driving preference. Then there will be things like getting used to the systems/brakes etc etc which will be all new to JB and if we remember rightly it took rubens a over 1 season to get used to hondas brakes etc. I really fear for JB

I wouldn't underestimate Button. If McLaren make a good car next year, and chances are quite good of that, than Button could shine. He is very good when he has a good machinery, as seen by the first half of the season.

Indeed and that's what we'll all be watching come the first race at Bahrain which i'm assuming will be super-hot; however I believe over the years Lewis has improved on the balance between tyre-shredding speed and tyre-saving pace as evidenced by a few of his races this season and even last.

For sure, next year will be one to watch and I for one can't wait!

well one thing in JB's favour is his experience and technically he is good too. Problem with that is that hammy just drives around the problems and ends up just as quick. Alonso thought he have the edge in set-up etc etc but got shocked how hammy can be just as quick even without a optimum set-up

Can't wait!

His wins in Hungary and Singapore displayed that.

Fixed.

I'll be impressed if JB can come close to LH. But I fear this is a career ending move for JB. Let's see what happens.

I expect a gap for the first few races as they get their respective setups worked out. As we know Jense drives very different style to Lewis. Once they're in the overall groove of their cars, info will be shared. I expect it will be close. One driver actually I think would like to keep the other reasonably close.

It'll be interesting.

I remember 2007 and people were saying Alonso was going to destroy Lewis, metally devastate him and end his career before it had even started.

Nothing of the sort happened, so.... I think its unwise to make predictions.

I honestly don't think either driver will be keen to "destroy" the other. It's just not their style...

Exactly, it's got a funny way of coming back and biting you on the arse

I want to agree with you especially when Massa held his own against Raikkonen, but I just cant see it. Hamilton is praised by his engineers of being able to drive around the problems/deficit of a car and this was noted in his 1st season against Alonso. Button on the other hand appears to need a car what does what it says on the tin. Any deviation from that and Button is mediocre.

And don't forget that KR was going to destroy FM.

True.

So I prefer not to jinx things

My initial view was that Hamilton would would win this fairly convincingly, but there are other issues to consider - one of which is the new set of regs for next year, primarily the lack of refuelling. The Mclaren design theme over the last few years has favoured drivers how like to drive aggressively with the front of the car, which is the antithesis of Button's smooth style. Hamilton has managed to devastatingly effective with this paradigm, but next years regs may allow Button to claw back some of that, since the car will be much heavier and hence place much more emphasis on tyre management. I suspect we'll see Hamilton destroy Button in qualifying, with the gap closing during the race. I still reckon Hamilton will prove the quicker overall though.

Of course, there is a fairly high, almost certain, probability, that I am wrong.

Thing is.... I'm not sure Lewis will like No2 on his car so much...

I don't think he'll give a shit TBH....