That could be the case. If it continues in the next few races, that Lewis gets called in for pitstops more often than Button, despite him managing on his tyres just as well for the same amount of pitstops as Button (see Bahrain and Malaysia), then I don't think it will just be me who is suspicious (it already isn't).

The first race (Australia) was a lucky guess by Button; China seems unclear. Hamilton said he wasn't sure whether he was called in or not so dashed in at the last moment. That seems fishy to me. Why is Button getting clear calls from his engineers and Lewis not always? And the biggest question still is why the engineer shakeup? It didn't happen at Ferrari, so why did it happen at McLaren?

You can poo poo conspiracy theories all you want, but when things continue not to add up, that is why conspiracy theories appear.

I am suspicious, but will wait until a few more races to make up my mind fully.

I know enough not to start getting nervous over this bump in the road, this..... glitch.... in the matrix. I mean look on it; people are even saying that Jenson Button is faster than Hamilton in Qualifying already... LOL.. Yeah he was faster for those rare occasions when Hamilton SCREWED UP. Other than those laps, (And I watch the live telemetry on the website) I can safely say that Hamilton is a typical 0.25 to 0.45 seconds faster than Button.

Err... not really. What has been claimed here (and you are guilty of it in this very post) is that it is an incontrovertible truth that Hamilton is faster. All that's been pointed out is that, so far that hasn't been evidenced - and not just in terms of Q3. It seems to me that (so far) there is very little between them in pace, certainly never so much that one can be described asoutright faster than the other. Just look at the conclusion you have come to; I can safely say that Hamilton is a typical 0.25 to 0.45 seconds faster than Button.... this reminds me of a gambling addict, who only ever relates how much he has won, and never acknowledges his losses. You see a 'typical' gap of "0.25 to 0.45 seconds" because you want to (the statistic doesn't even make any sense, given the discrepancies n length and make-up of circuits...).

The only claim that is really being made is that Hamilton is faster than Button; I think all that has been pointed out is that the evidence doesn't fit the perception.

What doesn't add up is the suggestion that McLaren would deliberately hinder one driver.

Look at Hamilton's calls - they have all been in line with either the majority of, or a significant number of, other teams' calls. They all made sense at the time, both to McLaren and to others. There is no conspiracy, it's just been a combination of great individual decisions from Button and a bit of bad luck for Hamilton.

Welcome aboard the Macca fans train, Pete. Its a wild ride. The strategy mess up that have been headlines this season are normal... the team relies too much on technology for calls IMO.

TBH, I prefer LH but I honeslty dont much care which of them comes out on top provided that they both "do the maximum" as FA would put it and the team backs them up with proper strategies, calls and equipment. For me LH is like Ronaldinho or Okocha in football. You would pay to watch the guy whether his team wins or loses (in fact PSG with both Ronaldinho and Okocha was mental!!). But right now, I am not sure LH is getting a fair shake, whether in terms of strategy from the team (eg both Australian and Malaysia) and he/his team are not making good calls (eg Aus and China) and LH's focus does not seem to be fully there (eg Aus in particular - he might be spreading himself too thin) and its all a bit niggling as he should be doing better.

Anyway, it could be worse - I could be an SV fan... then I would really have something serious to complain about. If what's going on with LH were an event on the track, we would have to look at it as a racing indicent and move on. MW clearly seems to have a lot invested in JB doing well and he seems willing to disadvantage LH (relative to LH's 2008 position in the team) to achieve this but it would not be accurate to say that JB is being favoured at the moment.

JB has two great and valuable wins but he also needs to pull up his socks ... dont let the wins mask the performances in the dry/normal races. If he wants to retain his title he is going to hustle his car a bit more in the races - he is not being aggressive enough - and hope that Macca can provide better machinery. Its still early days for him in the team and he is still having trouble finding the right set ups so hopefully that's all that's stopping him from turning on the style in "normal races".

You've put it more moderately than me, but this strategy disadvantage hasn't gone unnoticed. How could it?

Again...
Why do you think Mclaren would want to deliberately disadvantage Lewis Hamilton?

Well no one said it was deliberately, only you...
To me it's a consequence of the changes within the team...

Thanks. But I don't think I need to.

Why do you think Mclaren would want to sabotage Lewis Hamilton?

I actually think they are giving Button better strategies to engineer it that he comes out in front of Hamilton. They are not "sabotaging" Hamilton in the sense that they don't want him to finish a race, but they know that they can mess up with Lewis and he will still make it work to a certain degree (they obviously want to win the WCC). If this carries on for the rest of the races, it will be obvious to everyone. Even Hamilton will not be able to prevail if he is given strategies that put him 25-50 seconds less on track - that is obvious.

I am suspicious at the moment, but the strategy glitches could still be explained away. If it carries on, I will be convinced and saddened.

Look at how many people poo pooed the Singapore 2008 "conspiracy theory".

Well, looking at all the race's timing available, hamilton has been faster than button:

JB
Race 6:34.50.602
FP1 00:06.36.434
FP2 00:06.32.283
FP3 00:06.30.255
Q1 00:06.48.945
Q2 00:04.55.142 Minus Q2 Malaysia
Q3 00:03.30.651 Only Bahrain and China


LH
Race 6:34.45.302 -5.300secs
FP1 00:06.36.652 +0.218secs
FP2 00:06.31.047 -0.236secs
FP3 00:06.30.491 +0.236secs
Q1 00:06.49.078 +0.133secs
Q2 00:04.54.819 -0.323secs
Q3 00:03.30.251 -.400secs

I actually think they are giving Button better strategies to engineer it that he comes out in front of Hamilton. They are not "sabotaging" Hamilton in the sense that they don't want him to finish a race, but they know that they can mess up with Lewis and he will still make it work to a certain degree (they obviously want to win the WCC). If this carries on for the rest of the races, it will be obvious to everyone. Even Hamilton will not be able to prevail if he is given strategies that put him 25-50 seconds less on track - that is obvious.

I am suspicious at the moment, but the strategy glitches could still be explained away. If it carries on, I will be convinced and saddened.

Look at how many people poo pooed the Singapore 2008 "conspiracy theory".

2007: no way, they wouldn't do that to Alonso
2008: no way, they wouldn't do that to Heikki
2009: as above
2010: erm, actually...

2007: no way, they wouldn't do that to Alonso
2008: no way, they wouldn't do that to Heikki
2009: as above
2010: erm, actually...

Again, you're picking out statistics that support your 'addiction'. The idea that you can add up the times and they somehow makes sense is ludicrous. The fact is (to use an alternative statistic) that Button, when it has counted(Q3), has three times out of four been outright faster than Hamilton. Does that mean that I think that Button is outright faster than Hamilton? No. What it means is, I don't think there's anything to choose between them on speed. I think the differentials are so small that its a meaningless argument.

Let's take a couple of different examples, to highlight what I mean. Rosberg vs Schumacher: Its quite clear that one driver is faster than the other. Kubica vs Petrov: same thing.

In this instance, any claim to one driver being outright faster than the other is nothing more than a perception, one that certain among the Hamilton fans will look for 'evidence' to perpetuate - in the same way that a gambling addict will cling on to 'evidence' that he is winning.

So i can't use the numbers to backup what i think but you can?
So let me spread the numbers you like(Q3) when they both were there:

Bahrain
LH
1:55.217 -0.455Sec
JB
1:55.672

China
LH
1:35.034
JB
1:34.979 -0.055Secs

So there you have it when they both compete in Q3 lewis was faster in Bahrain and button was faster in China...
And if you want to check Q2 you'll see that lewis is faster 2 races to 1...

LOL This is getting preposterous -- comparing practice times? Jenson and Lewis are laughing at this thread.

lewis was faster

So if Jenson beats Lewis or is close to him there's a conspiracy.
If Lewis thrashes Jenson then everything's fair and above board.
And you'll decide after the next few races.

Wow.

You still haven't said why you think Mclaren might want to disadvantage Lewis Hamilton btw.

It surprised me, but Button's been faster overall in quali according to Yorkie.
Here.

Take it up with him if you don't like the figures.

You've put it more moderately than me, but this strategy disadvantage hasn't gone unnoticed. How could it?

I've already post the Q1,Q2,Q3 figures up, you may want to take a look....
Lewis has been slower in Q1, faster in Q2 and Q3 when both are on track...

My personal view is that LH is going to bugger off to Merc at some point (I have been saying so for over a year - long before JB arrived and LH fell off his perch - its about money at the end of the day) and fraustration at having to share equal billing with JB may well provide a trigger/excuse for this move.... but this is pure speculation on my part.

I've already post the Q1,Q2,Q3 figures up, you may want to take a look....
Lewis has been slower in Q1, faster in Q2 and Q3 when both are on track...

I have said it in my post above. Read it again. It's the bit underlined.

I actually think they are giving Button better strategies to engineer it that he comes out in front of Hamilton.

And no, you have read it totally wrong. If Jenson beats Lewis say when they are both on a one stopper and nothing untoward has happened like mechanical failure or super long pitstop for Lewis, etc, no I won't think there is a conspiracy. I will unhappily, reluctantly say Button did a better job.

But if Lewis is beaten by Button because he has had 1 or 2 more pitstops, and it continues throughout the season, when we can all see that Lewis can manage on the same no. of pitstops as Button (see Bahrain and Malaysia), then I will think increasingly that there is something fishy going on.

Unless Bridgestone are correct in what they said about his tyres.

They were preferable, but only in hindsight.

Rosberg was on the same strategy as Button, and he said it really was hit and miss during the crucial laps near the beginning. It could very easily have rained a bit more, and then Hamilton could have won on his strategy.

There's no foul play.

Well there seemed to be nothing wrong with his tyres when he was all over Kubica like a scolded cat, clearly his tyres were better than Kubica's, Kubica remained on the same tyres and finished 2nd. Luckily for McLaren Jenson has managed to give then a couple of get out of jail wins, because they were very much Jenson's wins and not McLaren's wins, Lewis is perhaps realising now he needs to stand on his own two feet a bit more because he can't over rely on the team getting things right as we have seen numerous times in previous seasons as well.

It surprised me, but Button's been faster overall in quali according to Yorkie.
Here.

Take it up with him if you don't like the figures.

Yorkie is not a Button fan. I reckon he checked the figures at least twice when he saw them.
As I said, take it up with him.

Well actually Lewis is 0.01s quicker ;)

I don't know whether Bridgestone are right in what they said about LH's tyres in Malaysia.
Ditto for the report on practice (China).

I do remember, though, that Hamilton fans weren't arguing with the supposed comments from Bridgestone in testing, which suggested that Jenson was actually rougher on tyres than Lewis.
I don't remember a single LH fan then saying 'Hang on...'; I do remember a few shouting it out (and why not).
Now, when Bridgestone are saying something different (and apparently saying it officially rather than through the rumour mill) they're not to be trusted.

Lewis is a great driver. He's fast, he's aggressive, he's a brilliant overtaker. That doesn't mean he's better at everything than everyone else. Maybe tyre use will turn out to be his achille's heel this year, maybe not. I don't think any of us know for sure.

Sorry but that discussion is just worthless. In races like the last 3, qualifying doesn't mean anything or matter at all. It has been about decisions, racepace and racecraft.

Agreed on the rest but why would he leave McLaren for Mercedes? Money? He will always get more at McLaren than at Mercedes. And nothing is pointing at equal billing with JB.

You have to remember though that everyone's tyres had gone at the end of the race, Lewis caught the Ferrari's at 2 seconds a lap, but they still made it to the end of the race, the over riding arguement is that Lewis hasnt been helped with many calls so far this season whilst Jenson has judged it beautifully.

Not when you add Malaysia. They both set their times in the same conditions, remember...

LH even said at the '25 launch that if there was ever only one set of new parts these would be given to JB first. At the time I thought he was just being magnanimous but maybe he got the memo

The data is too see who is out and out quicker, if one driver spins off or is held up on the only lap he's able to set because of the conditions it gives me meaningless data, i do this in an unbiased way otherwise its pointless me doing it in the first place.

I do remember, though, that Hamilton fans weren't arguing with the supposed comments from Bridgestone in testing, which suggested that Jenson was actually rougher on tyres than Lewis.
I don't remember a single LH fan then saying 'Hang on...'; I do remember a few shouting it out (and why not).

Dont discount money - is almost always trumps loyalty. Merc can afford to pay LH a lot more than Macca ever will. They could easily justify doubling LH's package by putting him at the head of a global advertising campaign. Merc has been looking to lower the age profile of its customers for some years now and once the economy turns round they will be able to splash the cash again. Macca will always be a tight ship as it is first and foremost a raceteam.

Also LH's relationship with Merc is as well developed as his relationship with Macca. They have a lot of time for him. If MS moves on and SV stays put at Redbull or prefers to go to Ferrari they will need a proven top tier driver on board to justify the expense of running a race team. I like NR but I dont think he is top class.

As for equal billing with JB, that is a subjective matter and in the eye of the beholder. If you see things differently from me there is little point in arguing. Its pretty obvious from my point of view and if anything JB gets slightly higher billing by being reigning WDC. LH even said at the '25 launch that if there was ever only one set of new parts these would be given to JB first. At the time I thought he was just being magnanimous but maybe he got the memo . At the moment, the standard wording over at Macca is "Jenson and Lewis" not "Lewis and Jenson". It used to be "Lewis and Heikki" not "Heikki and Lewis".

This?

That says what you think they might be doing. It doesn't say why you think they might want to do that.
Again, then...
Why do you think Mclaren might want to make sure Lewis finishes behind Jenson?


Tyre wear wasn't a factor for anyone in Bahrain.
Bridgestone said that he needed to pit in Malaysia.
Bridgestone said that Hamilton was much harder on his tyres in practice (not the race, nothing to do with overtaking or strategy calls) in China.

What if they're right?
How do you know they're not?

Of course it doesn't. But there are three whole weeks to go...

Edit: Actually I'm not sure you're right. The point of quali is that it may / will be more important in upcoming races. If they follow the pattern of Bahrain quali performance will be crucial.

I don't know why - they want to take Lewis down a peg or two? But why? He should be rewarded (as jjcale said) for his performance in the previous 3 years. Could be a more sinister reason. Will we ever know? But if it carries on this way, for whatever reason, this is what I suspect they are doing.

In Malaysia, he pitted once and managed to the end of the race (as did Button), so not sure what you are on about there.

And they pit LH before JB for the second set of inters so there was nothing much to complain about in China. LH and his team need to sharpen up, though.

The only thing that can be complained about was the second tyre change in Aus.... but one incident cannot form a pattern (obviously).