As long as Red Bull and McLaren remain the teams to beat like you say, I foresee a lot of 4th places on the grid for Jenson. And as he's more likely to lose places at the start than win any, Hamilton won't be troubled by him. But that's just my vision.

Glad it was you who said that not me

I'm waiting to see actually. Jense can be pretty good on the brakes and they'll both have been studying each other's telemetry. Meanwhile things could be a little nervy in the RB garage, possible issues around sharing of setups maybe, messing about with setups to try and get an edge...

He already has. Do you not think he took the greater risk in Australian and China when he decided to change tyres? That was a greater risk for him but with it came a greater reward. If he followed everyone else's strategy then he would not have gained the positions that he did.

That quickly? Damn!

My point was that whether Button overtakes Hamilton ontrack, or with pitstops, a lot of Hamilton fans would search for reasons behind it, as they'd think Lewis can't be beaten by his teammate like this. I'm probably wrong basing that on Turkey only, but it's not like I have any other examples to base it on. And to be honest, I would be surprised as well, or Lewis clearly has to have a very bad day.

But when Hamilton overtook Button in Melbourne, you didn't see any fans of Button creating conspiracy threads.

Agree, except China was not a risk, it was common sense.

He had, he does and he has to do in the future.
I meant it generally.

Of course, the team told Button to shred his tyres , that Lewis could overtake , him easier

Please try to restrict specific analysis of the Turkey incident to the appropriate thread.

Sure, but then again you're just a Button fanboy. Let's leave it at that.

Fair enough, I think it's clear that hamilton has more fanboys than most and more bashers.

But it's frustrating to have to argue against the bashers whilst currently being undermined by 'fellow fans' who generally provoke an undeserved backlash against lewis...and then also to get bracketed with said fanboys!

But they are racing the other teams.

So whilst I agree with you I can see the logic of fuelling as low as possible...it's also one of those things where beacuse others do it you have to do it too and then you end up with no advantage.

I understand where you're coming from, but afterall, this is a fairly anonymous forum, which doesn't make it difficult to accidentally generalize, and especially feel like you're being generalized in a certain group. I'm certainly not that deluded to think in any way about Lewis fans in general, everybody is different. I'll try not mention it like this in the future, but it's difficult while hardly knowing anything about most members, besides what they've written in their posts. I can't smell who is objective and who isn't, and I'm not around here for that long either. Everybody has been judged wrong, it's part of it.

It's pretty obvious Jenson is gonna steamroll Lewis this weekend.

Yup, steamroll city, we Hammy fanboys are just gonna have to hang tough .

He might get some points don't worry.

Is Button in a monster truck next weekend?

I hope not! Imagine the conspiracy theories that would result from that!

Yes, it's much better for Button and for the people here , if he finishes behind Lewis.
I'sure he knows that, and does it

There is a thread for the turkey incident. Please use it, and not this one, to discuss the specifics of the event.

That's probably the only reason. He overtook Hamilton in Turkey and thought 'F*ck, they're not gonna like this!' and gave the place back.

In Montreal I expect the same to happen. Poor Jenson.

Its not a "Fastest lap when nobody is in the way and oh, it must be in the dry, CHAMPIONSHIP". By the way. Try Drag Racing.

Jensons driving in an intelligent Championship building way in my opinion. There is a time and a place were its worth risking say 12 points for 3 more, and Jenson proved last year his method works and in aint looking too shabby so far this year. I don't see how anyone can argue with that. 7 races down, he's still right in the mix and now apparently more comfortable in the McLaren with developments that have brought him closer to Hamilton on pace (though I suspect this weekend might be an exception to the trend). His penchant to prowl rather than pressure (e.g behind Rosberg in China and Vettel in Hungary) ultimately netted him a 1st and 2nd place, rather than, potentially, a needless retirement. The results speak for themselves. Given the value of the points on offer for the upper positions, I think anyone who is going to beat Button to the Championship over the course of this season needs to be fast and as CONSISTENT. Hamilton has it in him, I'm not sure the Red Bulls do.

Close. In an ideal world you would give Lewis his Spain points back and Button maybe a couple or something for Monaco, so yes, Hamilton leads and that seems appropriate. But you can't factor anything in for Buttons wins in China and Australia. He made the decsions they could have just as easily backfired, the others could have just as easily made the same decsion as him. He made those choices and that is life, not luck. Nobody of worthiness has described those wins in the press as lucky, as far as I know.

Well we can only take this season where the strategy pays out with the fuel rules and most people are oblivious to the fact that Button was the fastest car on track in the closing laps of Australia, China and Turkey.... I'd say it hasn't paid out yet in an emphatic way, but, there is proof that the strategy has potential.

You don't seriously believe that it is as simple as that do you? OMG!

To be honest, yes I do. I don't see Button outqualifying Hamilton. For most of the season he will have to play catch up, he'll usually start behind him in races. Ofcourse it's never as simple as it looks, F1 is full of surprises, who knows how McLaren and Red Bull will be in a couple of races.

Consistency isn't just about staying out of trouble, it's also performing on a high level throughout the whole year. To me, Button hasn't yet proved he can do this. Perhaps 2004, but that's a long time ago. Last year his 'method', whatever you mean by that, worked because he had such a huge lead after 7 races, and his competitors were falling over each others feet trying to catch up. To beat Button in this championship, all you have to do is to be more consistent than him, because Button will have weekends in which he will be completely useless. His mechanical failure in Monaco covered up for his poor performance. That's 1 weekend, he will have more.

It's a shame that no one has been far and away more consistent than Button then.

Simples.

About Monaco, Hamiltons performance wasn't stellar either, on probably his favourite track. So it's quite safe to say that the car was lacking on that occasion.

Even Massa and Rosberg have been more consistent than Button.

Yes, the McLaren wasn't performing that well at Monaco, but that's no excuse to drive in 11th.

Oh was he, before the engine gave up? Than indeed, you're right.

Then they should be ahead of him in the WDC as speed consistency is all that is needed. Maybe they will be by the end of the year.

I hope you know there's a little bit more to it, like the car itself and decision in abnormal circumstances.

Jenson drove perfect in those circumstances and won two races. What has he shown for the rest? That sometimes he has the pace of Lewis? Doesn't do it for me, as indeed, sometimes he does not have his pace, and that's exactly what makes him inconsistent.

I have been theorising on here that Button is getting closer to Hamilton on pace, which would make sense, since he has been working to get the McLaren more to his liking (as Hamilton has too, but with less headroom I would expect). Do you dig that theory at all, or is it simply a stable gap in your opinion?

It's not stable, but it's not steadily getting closer either. He wasn't far of at the first race, closer than I expected. Since then Hamilton always had the measure of him with a couple of tenths, except of Melbourne and Shanghai. I don't see why that will change. Button can claim he starts feeling better and better in his car while McLaren is changing it to his likings, but that won't put him infront of Hamilton. So I don't completely agree with that theory, no.

I don't completely agree with it either (!) to the extent that there are many variables so it cannot be a perfect theory!!!

I think 9 times out of 10, in a dry race, the one that starts ahead will finish ahead. Its all about qualifying IMO with these rules. Button can be 3 or 4 tenths slower than Hamilton in a dry race, but if ahead on the track, I suspect that is how they'd finish (without variables such as incidents).

So qualifying ahead of Hamiton in dry conditions? Achieved in Melbourne, pretty damn close in Turkey. Got to happen sooner or later, but not Canada, I don't expect.

I still believe Jenson will catch up more and also will work to get the car more to his liking. I am sure Jenson is on fire, working on a worthy project...
If he will manage to catch up with Lewis remains to be seen....

If he does, things might get dirty. Imagine 10.000 + threads here on the BB about McLaren favoring Jenson....

on what evidence ??

Just read Mark Hughes' article on Lewis vs Jenson in this week's Autosport print.

Apart from his usual monumental hardon for Kubica, he hypothesizes that were Lewis and Jenson in the same car, but in different teams, Jenson would be beating Lewis in all the qualy/races etc. due to Lewis not being able to benefit from Jenson's set-up progression througout the weekend.... fuel corrected, at 12.47 pm and 37 seconds, with the wind blowing from the east of course.

Err, the official timing equipment.

Hopefully Jenson can get rid of his inconsistencies and pull himself up the WDC from 2nd back to 1st.

yea...there was nothing there in live timing or so that suggested Button was any closer to beating Lewis on saturday....on each of the laps from beginning of Q2, he was always at least 2 tenths down.


The recent GP where Jenson has been closest in qualy was Spain.

Wow. Sounds like the theories that flew around in 2007, that Hamilton benefitted from Alonso's set ups. He seemed to do okay in 2008 though without Alonso.

I get the feeling you don't agree with Hughes' theory?

Also, Kubica is no slouch, but that car has been developed as fast as the McLaren since Australia. It is probably on a par with the Ferrari right now if not better, Petrov has been getting some good times too, so it is not all a Kubica-miracle.

Would you like an endless debate about the definition of the word 'close'?

Not really.

Jenson is well known for getting a bit lost if he doesn't find that sweet-spot. We saw it last year towards the end of last season, and we've seen it a few times this season... and hell... Jenson even admits it himself! So I can't really see where Hughes is coming from there.

Nothing against Bob either. It's just that every other article of late seems to be Hughes whacking off furiously over him.

It depends if you want to call 3 tenths in identical cars close. Since China, Hamilton has stepped up his game a bit. He was on it around Spain, but we all know what happened. Monaco is all about qualifying, and Turkey he was quicker than Button again. If not for Buttons 2 inclement weather wins, he would be under intense pressure from the press. Not long ago, there were a few people crowing about Button leading Hamilton in race wins, qualifying and finishing ahead in the race. I get the impression the truth is beginning to dawn on them. Button is a couple of tenths slower than Hamilton.

I suppose from a journo's point of view the Lewis >>Jense story is a non-story, so to have any story at all it has to be Jense>>Lewis by whatever means/far-fetched hypothesis.