Seriously...come on....I didn't realise Hamilton was a rock ape previously when it came to his racing smarts. Ever heard that label before?

This thread will drag for the next 2 weeks.

Obi Offiah (the poster you quoted) was talking about Canada, not their overall performance gap, his data is from Canada, and 0.3 is something, certainly not "nothing" as tkulla claims.

I`m always sick and tired of hearing this: Oh give Jenson some time BS... Everything is new to him... he has to settle into the team! Excuse me????? Thats a guy who has won the first two races for McLaren this year! Me thinks he has had more that a fair deal of "getting used to a new team", in`it?

It's not a mind trick, it's a straight forward message: I could go faster
It's up to Button to decide if he could go even faster and he decided to settle
When the car behind you is gaining on you, you simply have to respond, what was he supposed to do? wait until the last lap? to show he's not afraid?

There would be no point for Button to go faster, he could already count himself lucky in 2nd after passing Alonso. Was there anyone seriously thinking he could close the gap to Hamilton and pass him with a few laps to go? I surely didn't think that.

Hamilton didn't need to respond. Even if the gap fell down to a second, what could Button do? You can't just overtake someone in the same car who has no tyre issues. Plus, why would McLaren even let them fight on a track like this?

Has anyone noticed how the pitstops always play into Buttons hands? He always seems to be the big winner from the stops and gain places and he has even gained the chance for wins from them, but for Hamilton it is the exact opposite, he always seems to be held up in the pits and lose places.
I would love to see the stats for this year, on how many places both off them have made up and lost on track due to overtaking, and how many they have won/lost due to pit stratagy, and in the pitlane its self.

Another good drive from both guys.

Thought Hamilton was superb. A phenomenal lap in qualy to give him the pole then in the race he managed an excellent balance of car preservation and aggression. Dug his team out of another poor pit stop hole with his overtake on Alonso. Put in another good move on Webber that gave him the gap to Alonso to see him safely home.

Incidentally, looks like Hamilton cost Vettel around 5/6s in their early battle. Which could have made the difference between Jenson coming 2nd rather than 4th ...


Canada may historically be a good Hamilton track, but with the extreme tyre wear issues experienced on Sunday that's got to be a race that played as much as possible to Jenson's (supposed) strength vs Hamilton on looking after his machinery and rubber. So you could equally suggest that 3 tenths is a heck of a lot when you consider that the conditions were perfect for Jenson to shine ...

What's wrong with Lewis's machinery and tyre management?

Doesn't matter what we think, Button obviously thought it's worth a go because he went faster. could he have closed that gap? he probably think he could before Hamilton banged in some fast laps and extended the lead. He knew Hamilton was cruising, but by how much? he wouldn't know until he challenged Hamilton and Hamilton responded.
Why would McLaren let their drivers race each other? because Team orders are banned I guess.
Why shouldn't Hamilton respond? Why should he wait until Button is all over his ass and sweat over defending?

No.

Ah, well that ban didn't stop them in Istanbul. Or Red Bull in Canada. A team can always decide to not let their drivers race each other.
And yeah, surely Hamilton would have it so tough with his teammate behind, right? The poor guy wouldn't stand a chance.
Please, Button was never going to pass him. He was never going to pass Alonso either if it wasn't for that backmarker.

it is interesting that when most agree pitting first is an advantage that they always seam to pit Jenson first even when Lewis is ahead on track.
The question is had Jenson's tyres started to grain slightly quicker yesterday than lewis's or is it a symptom of something else (perhaps they think Jenson needs that little bit extra more than Lewis does).

this is the kind of post that sends this thread to a downward spiral.... Jenson never had exclusive rights on intelligent driving or whatever.... Lewis has won races driving intelligently, he is a proven winner (even more than Button) so quit back-handed statements like this.

First, I will like to say like I've said b4 that Jenson drove a great race....

However, its funny to see Legard, DC n co, cooing all about Jenson's smoothness and Hamiltons "aggressiveness"...during and after the race. And struggling/failing to admit Lewis had atleast matched Jenson's tire gentility all the way.

Beating Lewis with back-handed compliments about his 'aggressiveness' is wearing thinner and thinner by the day. We've had some Jenson fans here n elsewhere on the internet talking bout how Jenson would school Lewis once the tires were more marginal. Yesterdays race was all about tires n Lewis handled it brilliantly all the way.

In reality, its not something that should be surprising. Lewis has had a very good career so far, not cos he is a one trick, raw speed destroy tires pony. What makes him so strong and as Jenson will come to realize (if he doesnt already), there is hardly any weakness to exploit...even if the current rules favor more 'Button-esque' driving than sprint racing.

Lewis was able to switch quite seamlessly btw pure pace in qualifying (traditional Lewis), decisive overtakes (Alonso n Webber) and tyre management (Jensons perceived advantage) this weekend. He did similar in Spain n Turkey.

Basically Lewis is able to channel his 'inner Jenson' when needed. Going forward, Jenson will need to channel his 'inner Lewis' more to turn the tide in the team mate battle. I think Jenson is already working hard at this though.

But as far as the pairing is compared to the rest of the grid, best pairing easily. That they respect each other and get on well is a bonus. Though this is gonna be up to lots of scrutiny as the WDC fight heats up.

Jenson is showing like I suspected that he belongs to the top-tier of drivers. Mclaren really suits him, their sensors-are-us meticulousness has made sure the car is always solid set-up wise or whatever for Jenson in qualy n the race.

As for Lewis, I dont think pundits like Brundle n co can make statements like 'Alonso is the most complete driver on the grid...' without putting an arguably atleast. Not with Lewis still racing...he's hardly put any foot wrong (except team strategy) so far n is two laps n a wheel blowout away from a commanding 21 point lead without having the best car in what should be one of the most competitive seasons ever.

I'm enjoying the season

Yes.
Button before the pistop P5
Lewis P1
3 other cars between them

After pistop Button right behind Lewis
Lewis lost time and positions (again)

Button was again the first of both called to the pits except Lewis was the the driver in front, and qualified ahead (he should have the first "call")
but Button was first who got new tyres

In Malaysia , Australia, China, Turkey, Canada Button benefits from "pits-plotics".

Come on, you know Lewis did it before without Button (Hungary 2009, Malaysia 2009, Brazil 2008....)

You underestimate Buttons competitive nature, he did say he tried to go for it but then realized he had no tires left. He said he was driving flat out at the end of the race.

Whitmarsh said it's misunderstanding. I bet Red Bull regretted Turkey, it's freaking PR disaster.

I don't know what you're on about, why should Hamilton make life difficult for himself? Why should he be complacent?

This.
Lewis soft tyres weren't better than Buttons yesterday, but he was able to keep Vettel behind him who was a lot faster
while Button was overtaken by Webber.
I think ,they think Lewis could help himself.

At Australia GP it was reported, that Lewis "crew" told Lewis after he qualiefied only 11.
"don't worry about P11, we know how strong you are"

Great post.

Eventually people will realise that there is no "LH style" beyond a particular oversteerly driving style. He is not "aggressive". He is not "instinctive" or "driven by emotion". He is actually very very controlled and if he needs to look after tyres, he will. If he needs to overtake he will gave a go. And if he needs just bring the car home, he can.

Sadly a lot of the descriptions that have attached to LH are stereotyical and that means they will be harder to shake... and some old buffers like Legard will always see him as "instinctive and natually talented" and JB as "smooth and intelligent".... but dont worry about Legard, he's just a hack playing at being an F1 commentator. I wouldnt be too hard on Brundle he is also a bit stuck in the past but at least he understands racing and like DC he is beginning to drop the stereotyping when it comes to LH.

BTW FA was amazing yesterday.

I wouldn't say afraid, just aware of what happened in Turkey and made the effort to avoid that happening again.

That's a lot of time between teammates.

I think Jenson was trying and it was a real difference in pace/tyre management, being only 2s behind with a lot of laps to go; it's a Lewis track, that's JB's main hope for the future.

Looks to me like after all the questioning Martin Whitmarsh has really abandoned team orders. Hope that doesn't bite him on the butt later on.

I dont agree with you, but that's not why I quoted you.

This conventional view that JB is better than others at looking after tyres, fuel and the car in general ... when did it begin exactly? Can we trace it back before 09?

Any input from JB fans would be welcome.

I think he was just letting Jenson know that this time round he was going to let him get close.

Funny analysis that.

The message over the team radio was telling:
Lewis, gap is over 3 sec now, please look after your tyres

(=He can't catch you, no need to drive faster)

I noticed it. Some of me says he is favoured by the team.

Obviously he did not see how close FA was to JB at the end of the race.... unless of course he thinks the Ferrari is about equal to the Macca (and I think he knows better than that).

I disagree completely. JB needs more help that's all. LH can more or less take care of himself on track as we have seen. From the team perspective, it is to be expected that the weakest link be strengthened - that is how teams function or should function. Does anyone trully believe that if the team have to make a choice between letting LH or JB go, they will keep JB at the expense of LH? the answer is no brainer.

The truth of the matter is even when JB was leading the championship and LH was 6th, RB stated that they considered LH to be there main threat. There was no mention of JB!
I have nothing against JB but I simply find it ridiculous the attempt to pair him in the same class as LH as a driver.

Ok, I missed that statement. Although I do recall he said something about using a lot of his tyres in his hunt for Alonso.

What do you mean by that exactly?

If both are limited by tyres neither can show what they can do.

At this track, LH seems to have a big advantage over every other driver for some reasons.... I would be very surprised if JB was equal in pace to him at any stage of the race.

I think you are misunderstanding pace dictated by tyre management for outright pace.

We saw outright pace in Quali and JB himself admitted he had no answer.

Whether the situation will be the same at other tracks is another question.

Well said, Femi

Well to avoid that from happening again, all he needed to do is set normal laptimes, and not cruise like he has a 20 sec lead like he did in sector 2 of lap 48 in Turkey.

Great post.

Some of it's just the luck of the draw, but in general I think the team know what they're looking at and take Lewis for granted much more, while Jense needs support. I thought in the pc some of Jenson's confident smile had gone missing. Well maybe some of that was the Turkey embarrassment, but the eyes had lost something I thought.

The team will be putting a lot of effort into sustaining Jense, anyway, to make sure he doesn't go the way of Heikki and leave the team with 1.5 drivers. It's not Whitmarsh preferring JB, I feel sure.

He has to say that for goodness sake. How could anyone expect him to say something different? RB, Ferrari and Mercedes would say the same thing about their driver pairings.
Actually when it comes to driver pairings, I believe the Mclarens have the best pair of the field. I suspect Weber might be a better driver than JB but in terms of delivery - which is what counts - JB is better and based on that, I put JB ahead of Weber.

I still laugh at this favouring JB crap

Lewis comes in in 07, almost wins them the WDC
Goes through the trials and shames of spy gate with them to come in to 2008 to win the title.
Helps them drag one of the worst cars they have ever built to race wins in 2009

So why would they have any reason to want to favour others to push him away?

On both cases you didn't get it. McLaren used team orders after the fight to make sure Button wouldn't get anywhere near Hamilton again (fuel is critical messages etc.), and Red Bull told both drivers to slow down at the end of the race in Montreal because apparently Vettel had some car problems while Webber was closing in. These things aren't banned because it doesn't affect the race outcome, or whatever the rule is. McLaren could have easily used that in Montreal as well.


There's nothing difficult about it really. He just had to drive, think it's fairly normal for him since he's doing it that much.

Because some people can't believe Button is so close to Hamilton they like to think it's partially because he's favoured by the team.

When it's actually just because he's good... very good in fact

If not for the wheel rim failure in Barcelona, it would be a 21 point gap.
If not for the extra unnecessary pitstop in Australia, it would be a 31 point gap.
He has been driving exceptionally, and if not for bad luck and poor team strategies, his points would show it more.

I know but there are people on here who are deluded enought to believe him.... next thing you know someone will be quoting it like it is proof of something.

BTW There is no way, MW is better than JB. The last half of 2009 proved that.

You'll perhaps note the "supposed" in brackets ...

Who told you that? you imagination?
They told both drivers to save fuel. It's the standard practice when you have a 1-2, why risk it? Got nothing to do with preventing Button from challenging Hamilton.



and he did just that, he drove just as fast as he thought he needed to.

Yes but you've got to take the rough with the smooth.

If not for bad luck, SV would be leading the WDC table.... so LH isnt even lead the bad luck/team errors table.

Jeez, if he puts his foot down, you say that's not necessarily, it's not like Jenson is going to overtake him anyway. If he goes into fuel save mode, you say hello, there's still race going on......

he's told to save fuel, not "normal laptimes"

What is abudantly clear now is Hamilton has dethroned the Red Bulls
Button has been put firmly in his position as a rear gunner

Hamilton is now only racing agaisnt Whitmarsh and his hopelessly incompetent
pit crew, i mean what is so freakin difficult about changing tyres, do they not practice
these things ? They botched it for three consecutive races

Button 's lucky streak has come to an end and now Whitmarsh is manufacturing wins
for him since he is so good at 'manufacturing drivers' and not cars.

I just mean in general. I really expected Lewis to romp away at the front from the start, but he couldn't even get in the lead comfortably until the 2nd half of the race. Considering where Button started, its surprising that Button was ever as close as he was for me.

Haha good answer. I have noticed though that McLaren seem to lose out in pitstops compared to other teams. They definitely need to tighten that up, if you see a replay the guy on the front right wheel takes an extra second to change the tyre than the guy on the front left.

So you make your conclusion on something 'supposed' that you yourself don't even agree with?

Yes, Red Bull is usually quicker, and at this instance Ferrari aswell. They need to step it up a bit. On tracks where overtaking is possible, like Montreal, it's not that crucial, but in Valencia it can decide races.