I haven't heard any quotes that say the issues have been fully resolved.
They might be able to alleviate some of it by moving ballast rearward, but they might be limited in doing this when they visit tracks that require a more rearward weight bias in terms of setup.

If you look at F1 Jerez test results, the time 1.24,621 that Michael achieved with GP2 car is pretty good. He said difference between F1 and GP2 is around 6 seconds.

I wonder if there's a fundamental design error with the chassis or if they simply got the ballast totally wrong for the first day at Valencia. IIRC they said the car was already better in the final day.

In case there's in fact a problem with the CoG of the chassis I fear this will seriously limit their ability to play with the ballast when setting up the car during the season.

Very strange mistake to mak, very little in the rules have changed since 2009, the Brawn should have being a perfect platform to evolve from, there was no need to do a drastic change. Take the redbull, everyone was expecting something different, but what we got was a refined 2009 car, why change it if it wasn't broke?

Well the refueling ban is an important change. The larger fuel tanks mess a lot with the CoG of the car. Also the narrow tyres require a different weight distribution.

Didn't the front tire width change?

Yes it did, both the narrowing of the front tyres and the ban on refueling are two major changes for 2010 which mess with the weight distribution of the car.

From Schumi website, little bit different from MGP site:
"We had a good day today I must say. At the morning there was a small issue but at that time we anyway wanted to wait until the track was dry. Afterwards we were able to use our time very effectively and completed everything that we wanted. At the moment, every kilometer helps to increase our understanding of the car. It's very tough still to understand the order of the teams just yet as everyone can play so much with the fuel loads and even the weight distribution. To me, it looks as if the expected four teams - us, Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull - are upfront, but also Sauber seems to be good so far. At the end of this week's programme we can say the car looks good. But then, as usual at this period prior to the season there is still a lot to happen. Only at the start of the season we will probably know more in the end."
And also is there reason to believe that other teams don't have problem with WD or work on WD? I don't think what mr.Allen said is a big secret, this could be said for almost every team. Don't think there is a car that came with perfect WD from the box. It is usual thing to do in the tests. And also how important is driver weight for WD, because two drivers could be with different weight? They have to balance the car for every driver? Also you balance the car , but when you put new aero things ,you have to do it again?

Schumacher is fasinated by the suspense of testing, always analytical and precise even in speculation, this transfers to the track when he's searching for those extra centremetres deep into the racing line where other drivers won't always find, but where at times those extra tenths come his way. The difference between the very fast driver and too fast driver like MS is in the details, able to pick up engine hestation in the corners while driving on the limit and giving this precise feedback back to the team, it does all add up.

I honestly don't understand why optimum WD per car is so difficult to calculate in a F1 car unless we are talking in the regions of micro grams.

Because tire behavior and tire characteristics are still a bit of black art to predict and understand.
Its all about those four wheels that make contact with the track and how the dynamics of the car stress and use the tires.
Different cars have different dynamics and one of the key factors deciding the dynamics is the car's weight distribution.

michael certainly doesn't sound extremely worried
I doubt it is known to be a fundamental error in the mercedes car. They still need a lot of work to do, but I still think the car will be a front runner.

By the sound of it, I don't think it's a big issue either.

Much appreciated! Thank you!

I see you're relatively new here. Welcome!

+1

It doesn't sound like anything that can't be fixed.

I've just joined as well

Wasn't the whole goal of the design and developments of each of these cars deliberately geared towards the delivery of these dynamics or behaviour in the first instance and if so such behaviour should be predictable and if that is case, I still do not understand why WD should be taking so long to solve.

When we talk about WD, what we mean? WD in which moment(empty tank,full tank, half tank)? Car is losing up to 170 kg per race, the weight is changing with every lap. This change WD and CoG in every lap. When car need to have optimal WD? First I was thinking about WD like something constant , but it is changing all the time? I am missing something here.

Dynamics is not so easily predictable as many seem to make out. I often work in a dynamics laboratory, and trust me, it really isn't as straightforward as one would expect. Very likely, the teams use mathematical models to approximate certain vehicle behaviour. Furthermore, it's so easy to make an implicit assumption about a certain parameter, and we all know what they say about assumption.

The two facts typed in italics are of crucial importance and can make the world of difference. Let's not forget "the butterfly effect" - a very dangerous thing that. A very small approximation and/or assumption error can be magnified through iteration to a large enough extent to cause some very real problems.



When designed correctly, the centre of gravity of the fuel tank, in terms of it's longitudinal coordinates (front to back of the car), should coincide with the general centre of gravity (again in terms of it's longitudinal coordinates) of the car. So that when the fuel tank empties, the longitudinal coordinates of the centre of gravity of the car does not change. The WD of the car, is directly related to the longitudinal coordinates of the centre of gravity.

For example, let's assume the car weighs 700kg on full tanks and the WD is 60/40. Then (assuming straight driving at constant speed with neutral downforce):
Front wheels: 420kg
Rear wheels: 280kg
Thus 60/40 WD.

At the end of the race, the car may weigh (say) 600kg. If the fuel tank placing was correct:
Front wheels: 360kg
Rear wheels: 240kg
Thus WD still 60/40.

I think this new will make us not that worry about the car issue.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/2...ason-programme/

Why would that get rid of anyones doubts? That's a typical, tells you nothing, statement.

KiloWatt thank you for explanation.

Thanks for the effort.
Don't you think they are able to monitor the shift of the car's CoG while in motion or over a series of short but consecutive runs? I think they can and such measurements will point them in the direction to go and if so, I still don't think it should be an issue that should take that long to deal with. Of course if the solution demands a major structural changes of the car, then it is a different story.

Once again, thanks for your input.

A post on james allens blog, not heard anything myself.

But not an issue for Mac?

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/2...close-up-again/
Schumi:
"I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship; where we are exactly is hard to say - that is especially true for me as I don't have the data from last year's car."

Hmmmm....shift in the car's CoG while in motion? I suspect it will be very difficult to measure directly. If one simply measure the load on the suspesion and deduce CoG from that, it will be affected by non-steady state driving like cornering and accelerating (the resulting weight transfer will bias your results). Furthermore, aerodynamic loads (downforce and drag) will also influence suspension loads. Also, I'm not exactly sure how one will handle the unsprung weight of the car. I'll have to think about that one.

Although, by doing some runs and noting specific differences in car reaction from one fuel load to the next, one will very likely be able to make certain observations of the change in CoG. Offcourse, the fuel loads should be far enough apart to actually tell a difference. And enough laps on a certain fuel load will have to be done to get a reasonable sample size, if I can call it that.

This is assuming that the driver is consistent in his racing lines, entry speeds, exit speeds, etc. So you do need a very consistent driver to manage this.

this part they've got covered...about the rest...I don't know..it sounds very difficult to do.
also keep in mind that the little testing available can't all be used for weight distribution tests..you have to do tyre testing, engine testing etc...

check this out

Although it addresses the method for air planes, it might be possible to adapt it to a F1 car

and possibly this one as well

There are quite a number of articles and or white papers describing how this can be done.

That's possibly the strangest thing I've heard him say. Both parts of the sentence contradict each other.

Although, admittedly, I didn't read through all of it (after a day like the one I've just had, I'm not really feeling up to it), I'm not surprised that there are ways of doing it. One thing I've learnt is that "If there's a will there's a way". So I'm not surprised someone figured out how to do it.

But thanks for the articles! The bits I read seem very interesting and I'd love to read them as soon as I get some sleep!!!

http://f1news.cz/pictures/photo/2010/02/12...5968808-hdd.jpg

Not worth a new thread
Fry out of Mercedes?

I have no idea if thats good news or bad news, looks like the new owners are cleaning shop and replacing with their own members, only time will tell if it was the correct move in terms of results.

If true, Fry has likely cashed in on his shares and is laughing his way to the bank.

I for one am happy we don´t have to see Fry anymore - remember his ridiculous welcoming of Michael Schumacher that was posted on YouTube? "You made it through the rain, hahaha!"
It´s amazing how long he managed to stay in F1, and this royal payout will make it sweeter for him.

Remains to be seen if these structural changes will have any effect on the operations effectiveness - Mercedes bringing in quite a change....

Not really. He believes that the car will be fast enough to fight for the WDC but he isn't sure if Merc will be chasing Ferrari/Mclaren or whether they will be chasing Merc.

I can't help but think that any disruption that a management change brings will be negated by having Fry out. I always had the impression that Honda's success was stunted by Fry, not encouraged.

Edit: That is if the story is true. Sylt is hardly what I would call reliable or a journalist, much less a reliable journalist.

I just noticed that the front wing in this pictures really does not connect well with the nose. May be the nose is designed for the so called new wing that being hidden from other teams? Looks like there is a different 2010 wing after all, Cool!

+1

I hope Ross doesn't call it a day either. Without him, sad to say, I don't have THAT much confidence in the team anymore. He's crucial.

I wonder if they were fired or resigned.

Agreed. Was DR's understudy @ Prodrive, he then left and pinched Richard's role @ BAR where he oversaw a severe drop in performance. As a 'sporting' director @ Honda his biggest success was hiring Ross Brawn as his own replacement! He failed to secure any sponsorship for two seasons in a row, saw them leave the team hanging dry and at the end of it all Honda outright told him to a buyout would not happen with him as a partner and bypassed him going directly to RB.

The team wasn't really the envy of the grid as BAR and Honda,so a management reshuffle can only be a good thing. I don't think Ross intends to leave considering he's been a major factor in wooing MS out of retirement and NR from Williams (maybe the latter was a given).

If he does,however,it'd probably be the end of it and I hope Michael gets the hell out of there!

People resigning from key positions was natural, happens with every take over of a company. New people come in from the company taking over. They may still be employed by the team however, just in alternative roles.

Schumacher says the W01 is capable of fighting for the championship: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81530

That sounds promising.

Any details regarding Fry's decision?

Apparently Mercedes denies Fry will no longer be CEO.
Pispass was a bit to eager for this to happen.

Lookie likie article was pulled.

From what I know about Mr. Fry from his statements and interviews, I bet he has had a "friendly" word with PitPass.
When will PitPass learn if indeed that "news" was someone's fig of imagination.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp...57719&FS=F1