ivand911
Feb 22 2010, 13:39
QUOTE (rog @ Feb 22 2010, 15:25)

Is this user trustable? I see this guy has written 182 postings, is it an insider or how does he know?
I don't know. He have enough posts(he is not somebody with 1-2 posts, but even with 1 post somebody could be an insider) and he post frequently in MGP thread there. We will see on 25.02 if he really know something.
Jomyboy
Feb 22 2010, 13:45
QUOTE (soca @ Feb 22 2010, 18:30)

Hello all to you!
I have been following this forum some months now with non registered and now finally decided to register and have a word. Ive noticed that a lot of you guys are worried about the pace of the MGP but im not. I have been following the tests and the times and IMO there is no need to worry because Nico and Michael have been showing basically the same times as other teams(by other teams i mean Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren). What i found really interesting was on Wednesday when after the red flag with just 15 minutes left to the end of the session it was very interesting to follow the times of Schumi, Hamilton, Vettel and Massa. Hamilton was the fastest lapping in 1.23s and Schumi, Vettel and Massa lapping in 1.24s. Schumi was faster than Vettel and Massa in 1.24s and finally got down to 1.23s while Vettel and Massa stayed in the 1.24s and Hamilton finally dropped down to 1.24s too. i know that it was just a 15 minutes and not a lot of laps and we dont know the fuel loads but i guess they must have been on pretty similar fuel loads when they showed pretty similar lap times. And on friday Schumi and Webber showed the whole day basically the same lap times both lapping in 1.22-1.23, except Webbers short stint in 1.19s. And on Saturday the four guys Nico, Webber, Alonso and Button were running in 1.21-1.22s and in 1.23s-1.25s. i was very bored and i calculated the average of the times
Lighter car Heavier
Rosberg 21,860 24,7
Alonso 21,942 24,102
Button 21,554 25,003
Webber 22,436 24,529
For the lighter car times i took the times up to 1.22 and for the heavier car 1.23-1.25. Of course i dont know the fuel loads but anyway i did the calculations.
The only thing that im worried about is that Alonso, Massa and Button, they dont mention Mercedes in interviews when they are asked which car looks fast and they certainly know more than we here i think. But anyway i think that Mercedes hasnt just showed their cards yet and when they add the new front wing and the diff. they will be very very fast. But this is just my point of view.
thanks for your input mate
ivand911
Feb 22 2010, 17:14
Again from Raptor22 from F1technical:
The radiator cores are actually quite heavy.
Hence they are often positioned as close to the driver as possible. Remember you have upwards of 10-15kg of cooling fluid circulating through them.
Shifting that about has a marked effect on weight distribution.
Source I cannot disclose. Its not printed anywhere. Sorry but if I go naming the individual or the organisation they work for then I don't have a source anylonger, its that simple.
No, the person is not an PhD Engineer in ground vehicle aerodynamics and a well established F1 engineer, but a personal friend and an ex colleague.
Well it's only a couple of days away,so let's hope something significant is introduced.
Umpire
Feb 22 2010, 22:54
QUOTE (ivand911 @ Feb 22 2010, 19:14)

Again from Raptor22 from F1technical:
The radiator cores are actually quite heavy.
Hence they are often positioned as close to the driver as possible. Remember you have upwards of 10-15kg of cooling fluid circulating through them.
Shifting that about has a marked effect on weight distribution.
Hmm, cooling fluid? I thought F1 cars were entirely air-cooled.
aeffle
Feb 22 2010, 23:41
QUOTE (Umpire @ Feb 22 2010, 23:54)

Hmm, cooling fluid? I thought F1 cars were entirely air-cooled.

No, they are not air-cooled. I don't know exactly what kind of cooling fluid is used (water with some kind of additives?) in F1, but there definitely is one.
MikeTekRacing
Feb 23 2010, 09:01
QUOTE (Umpire @ Feb 23 2010, 00:54)

Hmm, cooling fluid? I thought F1 cars were entirely air-cooled.

I doubt such a high performance engine will work air-cooled..
I am pretty sure you've seen engine blowups and a lot of steam behind...gues where that comes from
QUOTE (Umpire @ Feb 22 2010, 23:54)

Hmm, cooling fluid? I thought F1 cars were entirely air-cooled.

Well, they are, indirectly ...
Dragonfly
Feb 23 2010, 09:52
QUOTE (peroa @ Feb 23 2010, 11:10)

Well, they are, indirectly ...

I am a bit surprised that F1 fans ask such questions ...
Matheen
Feb 23 2010, 10:48
QUOTE (MikeTekRacing @ Feb 23 2010, 09:01)

I doubt such a high performance engine will work air-cooled..
It can, but F1 engines aren't.
MikeTekRacing
Feb 23 2010, 12:06
they have problems while @idle rpm even today with liquid cooled engines.
the engines are so tightly packed that you can't have any airflow around it.
they would still need oil radiators (and oil will do part of the cooling) but I don't think they can remove even a small part of the total required energy.
Umpire
Feb 23 2010, 16:08
QUOTE (Dragonfly @ Feb 23 2010, 11:52)

I am a bit surprised that F1 fans ask such questions ...
I'm sorry. I vaguely recall reading in the 2001 Tech Regs (which I had printed at the time), that an F1 car must be air-cooled. Coupled with the fact that cars always had issues when standing still, I thought that air must have been at least the primary means of cooling. I know full well that a liquid, particularly a high-performance cooling liquid, can abduct thermal energy much better than air.
Obviously I must have been wrong about what I read in the tech regs that many years ago....perhaps confused it with the air induction issue (no forced induction).
So, do they have a regular cooling fluid radiator similar in philosophy to that of our ordinary cars?
[/end of offtopic]
P.S. Come to think of it.....I'm fairly sure I remember drivers having issues with their water temperature, at one time or another..
I must have suffered some sort of brain-fade..
Matheen
Feb 23 2010, 16:32
QUOTE (MikeTekRacing @ Feb 23 2010, 12:06)

they have problems while @idle rpm even today with liquid cooled engines.
That is because they don't have fans, but you are probably right about the packaging of modern F1 cars. I was replying to the implication in your earlier post that high-performance engines can't be air-cooled. The Porsche 917/30 had over 1100 BHP and was air-cooled.
QUOTE (Umpire @ Feb 23 2010, 11:08)

I'm sorry. I vaguely recall reading in the 2001 Tech Regs (which I had printed at the time), that an F1 car must be air-cooled. Coupled with the fact that cars always had issues when standing still, I thought that air must have been at least the primary means of cooling. I know full well that a liquid, particularly a high-performance cooling liquid, can abduct thermal energy much better than air.
Obviously I must have been wrong about what I read in the tech regs that many years ago....perhaps confused it with the air induction issue (no forced induction).
So, do they have a regular cooling fluid radiator similar in philosophy to that of our ordinary cars?
[/end of offtopic]
P.S. Come to think of it.....I'm fairly sure I remember drivers having issues with their water temperature, at one time or another..
I must have suffered some sort of brain-fade..

Current regulations, and I peruse a lot of pages over the weekend, do speak to system position, inclusion of pressure safety valves, etc., however I could not find coolant specifics. It's almost as this would be team specific (and secret) choice. I am not sure. F1 official web site in the technical detail specs is addressing the issue, but left out is its chemical profile. Implications are, it is a liquid of some kind.
Umpire
Feb 23 2010, 17:15
This must be it. I guess what I remember the rules saying is, ventilator fans are not allowed..In other words the car may be cooled using only the natural flow of the air around it.
Jedi_F1
Feb 23 2010, 21:06
For those who haven't seen it yet,
Schumi in his first Mercedes TV commercial, linked at the FORIX.com Facebook Group=
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=111194985401
anbeck
Feb 24 2010, 08:08
QUOTE (Umpire @ Feb 23 2010, 18:15)

This must be it. I guess what I remember the rules saying is, ventilator fans are not allowed..In other words the car may be cooled using only the natural flow of the air around it.
Could such a regulation be in place in order to ban any fan car designs?
http://www.autoevolution.com/images/news/g...la-1-6717_3.jpgI think they argued for a while that the fan was there to cool the engine...
And I remember Porsche's engine fans to be rather big (and visible from the outside), so I could imagine that a clever engineer would find ways to combine it with a DDD in order to gain downforce, while pretending it's all there to cool the engine...
ivand911
Feb 24 2010, 08:55
http://blog.autoplus.fr/moncet/wp-content/.../BA1_9479bd.jpg" Mercedes, this afternoon made the first 30 laps with Schumacher. It started in 1'25 "2 and stopped in 1'23" 8 His right tires, (here there are four major left turns without forgetting the 5th, the hairpin), were considerably damaged about one third of the tread (third because of the significant negative camber). Finally, he lost three rivets in the bottom right of the dock and the tip body began as a kind of flap, but Schumacher has not stopped."
Some was saying that this damage was from crash with Kobayashi. From one site is not good to lose things on a race track, but still this didn't stop him. Better cooling maybe

Also they have some "special" wheel nuts?
Bump to get it back in time for tomorrow. Long time to go but what the hell.
Talryyn
Feb 24 2010, 18:32
Not long before everyone on the grid has those spinner shaped wheel nuts, they make sense.
MadYarpen
Feb 24 2010, 18:56
QUOTE (ivand911 @ Feb 24 2010, 09:55)

being able to read BREMBO is just great!
ivand911
Feb 24 2010, 19:18
BREMBO is used by Ferrari and Schumi and Ross know them well. Maybe tomorrow we will see fourth MGP car. First was in Stuttgart, second in Malaysia , third on the tests. I am sure there will be new aero package and even bodywork changes. MGP can't be the only team without changes. Schumi will be not accepted to drive for such team.
sephiroth
Feb 25 2010, 07:43
A bump so people can talk a bit about any new changes to the car.
merschu
Feb 25 2010, 08:18
NobleF1 on twitter was saying:
Mercedes GP were doing some practice pit stops early this morning - and are using some interesting quick release jacks
Waiting for the first pics to trickle in so we know if there's a new aero package on the car already.
f1rules
Feb 25 2010, 09:16
huge dissapointment

, not very ambitious to use same wing as last year
LuckyStrike1
Feb 25 2010, 09:17
QUOTE (f1rules @ Feb 25 2010, 10:16)

huge dissapointment

, not very ambitious to use same wing as last year
Well if it works ...
athlon
Feb 25 2010, 09:21
Well, the most interesting question if they are running with the new diffuser?
I wouldn't start the pity party just yet.
Surely, they will get a baseline first with the old aero package before putting the new kit on?
Why would they go belting around with all the new stuff if they didn't at least know how fast the old stuff was around the circuit first?
f1rules
Feb 25 2010, 09:22
QUOTE (LuckyStrike1 @ Feb 25 2010, 10:17)

Well if it works ...
i know and i hope it works, but a famous saying, standstill = going backward,s and in my opinion this fits perfect for F1, a part can always get better, and to start the season with last years fw design is not ambitious enough for me
FlashMaster
Feb 25 2010, 09:47
johnmhinds
Feb 25 2010, 09:48
No, nobody is going to be running any new parts on the first day.
FlashMaster
Feb 25 2010, 10:13
QUOTE (johnmhinds @ Feb 25 2010, 10:48)

No, nobody is going to be running any new parts on the first day.
Yup you're right
@NobleF1
I understand Mercedes GP is to bring some aerodynamic updates to its car for the second day of the test - although unsure yet exactly what
damn you were faster than me

, i just wanted to post this, lets see tomorrow then
Gilles4Ever
Feb 25 2010, 10:18
They will run today in "old config", get a baseline, bolt on the new stuff tomorrow and see what the changes are.
merschu
Feb 25 2010, 10:31
Sorry.. Flash Master already posted what i was gonna post...
QUOTE (Gilles4Ever @ Feb 25 2010, 10:18)

They will run today in "old config", get a baseline, bolt on the new stuff tomorrow and see what the changes are.
And tomorrow we will be saying that they will bolt on the new stuff on saturday as Schumacher needs to get a baseline!
FlashMaster
Feb 25 2010, 10:48
QUOTE (eoin @ Feb 25 2010, 11:46)

And tomorrow we will be saying that they will bolt on the new stuff on saturday as Schumacher needs to get a baseline!

We didn't say , it was Mr. Noble who is at Barca
I wasn't expecting new parts until tomorrow or Saturday.
Matt Somers
Feb 25 2010, 12:10
I would imagine Saturday for the new parts so both drivers can get their baseline.
salamin
Feb 25 2010, 12:11
the short stints from rosberg looked kinda shitty (1 sec off RB pace)
but on the longer runs, he was even a bit better than alonso
Matt Somers
Feb 25 2010, 12:15
So difficult for us to compare anything though when you don't know fuel loads or what tyre compound they are using or even if they have too much ballast on....
KiloWatt
Feb 25 2010, 12:54
I didn't follow this morning's times that closely, but it seem pretty OK so far (despite some of the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth going on in here of late). I gather from some of the posts around here and elsewhere that the longish runs look pretty decent. And we all know that Barca seperates the men from the pus...sorry...the men from the boys.
At least were not finding ourselves 2.5secs of the pace like Macca last year...
Lets see what happens, but it's looking cautiously promising.
RedBaron
Feb 25 2010, 13:05
James Allen's latest post mentions Ferrari and McLaren as having major new packages for this test but mentions nothing of Mercedes. Not saying they along with the rest of the pack will have no updates, but if they were going to be hugely significant would he not have included the Mercedes name along side McLaren and Ferrari?
No mention of Mercedes - or anyt other team except these two in the entire article
QUOTE
For this week a wide range of new aerodynamic upgrades is expected. Teams like McLaren and Ferrari have produced significant packages of top body, floor, engine cover and so on, primarily aerodynamic steps as it seems from talking to the engineers that aero is still the big area of growth potential, despite all the cut backs. These steps should be worth significant chunks of lap time.
Teams 'like' Ferrari and McLaren so it surely can include others, I just found it odd to leave out the current champions when listing 'top' teams.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.