Didn't bother anyone in the 1950's.

Or supporting Ferrari... Ferrari produced aircraft components Hell the prancing horse used to adorn the sides of some bF109s...

This is great!

Then the question is If Schumacher still have his GErman Passport in his pocket...

Why? You think he would officially told something without Mercedes approval? Naive boys.

Would it not be interesting if Schumacher takes the CEO role while Nick Fry remains as his right hand man?



Heidfeld to do the testing role and Schumacher to take ... ?

Well calm down and read this again. Then try another one until it transforms to donkey can fly too.

Woops a joke too far,.


Kimi is not a super man, Odvan.

Why? I see picture with Kimi and letter S on his chest - why should I think he isn't superman?

I see...


BTW do Medecedes take up the challenge to the WCC 2010? I am more and more inclined to say no, and Ross is trying to play a card to blame other courses, other than his car design division. Perhaps the team had really really small budget this year...

IBM PCs? What had IBM got to do with Adolf & Co.? IIRC the founder of pre-IBM in the 19th century was a son of a German immigrant, but that's still quite a long stretch towards support and sponsorship from Der Führer during 1933-1945.

Google.

It is alleged they produced systems that helped catalogue people through the death camps, and they knew what the systems would be used for. I suppose it's not 'support and sponsorship' by the Nazi's so much as 'aiding and abetting' by IBM. But I hope the more general point is clear that very few large corporations are free of connection with unpleasant regimes and inhuman acts of the past and that 'Silver Arrows' should not be judged any more severely for their part.

It is not really fair to rule out Heidfeld just because he is German. I'd like them to pick the best driver available. There was an outcry on this forum when someone brought in speculation about an all German team. However, drivers being excluded due to their nationality doesn't seem to be a problem.

But thats obvious (that Mercedes shouldn't be connected with nazis) for you, for me, for the most people on the board, but not so much for stupid people that will think "german team with two german drivers? hey, thats kind of nazi!", and of PR-reasons, they can think about the opinion of such people... :/

Max made the connection in an open letter only last year, sadly, and he's far from stupid.

Anybody with half a brain would know especially in that era, if your country asks you to produce something for the war effort, irrespective if you were fighting for the allies or the Nazi regime. You did what was asked, end of story! If anybody thinks the allies never committed war-crimes themselves, well they, live in cloud cuckoo land. Our bombing of Dresden is one such act. Should Rolls Royce be castigated, for providing the engines to the planes, which took part in the act? Or should Rolls Royce have said no on moral grounds, knowing there would be massive civilian casualties?

I agree. But we have already said it many times - while best players still on the market it's stupid sign someone else. But if negotiations with Kimi fail there are no doubts Nick really could get vacant seat.

Seems I've missed this. More than a bit sensationalist stuff, but it's not too outlandish to think the IBM's European subsidiaries have indeed provided what has been requested. To what extent the core enterprise was aware of the exact details of the actual use of the systems is of course debatable.

You are right in that any corporation with major involvement in the German/pro-German market under the Nazi regime must have had some affiliation with the political elite of the time - without that affiliation doing business would have been impossible. Difficult question though, as of course there has been many "levels" of affiliation both in genuinity as well as in enthusiasm, but who's to sort that out today? And is it even relavant, because the people that were in key places are long since dead anyway?

Painting everyone with the same brush (let it be white or black) is probably wrong by default as it usually is, but maybe the best thing to do in this case regardless...

This Finnish article seems to suggest Kubica would fit in well at Merc because of his friendship with Rosberg (though it could be the dodgy translation:P). Still, they are friends and I remember reading about the poker games Kubica and Rosberg have in Monaco (where they both live) and how Rosberg won 30k off Ol' Bob during one night:P:

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl...1%26tbs%3Dqdr:h

I think it's long enough ago now that you're right.

And I think that's the key thing. These are corporations, made up of hundreds of thousands of people who have all changed since any of this happened and now have no connection.

I think any replies are in danger of taking the thread massively off-topic and into emotional/inflammatory areas. However, if McLaren were to turn up on the grid next year with a Merlin engine, it wouldn't be Roll-Royce's history people would be talking about.

we don't need = we're not looking specially for 2 german drivers

he doesn't dismiss the idea but it's nor a requirement to have them both from germany

That's my interpretation of that quote too.

The translation is more than dodgy, it says that they are interested to hire Kubi to be Rosbergs team mate, not that they are friends... altough they might as well be but who knows

Yeah. But Kismet said well - how Haug would sell it to German - prefers Kubica to Nick? BTW they also said Kimi is choice number one.

I believe some of the comments regarding Mercedes history is not understood in context. Whether they agreed with the Third Reich or not, they did what the what they were told to do, end of story! I've seen pictures posted on here, of old Mercedes cars with a swastika on, like I'm meant to object to them being on the grid in 2010. The war is long over, we won, Hitler lost. FFS Lewis Hamilton is a poster boy and drives for the company. So what ever association Mercedes had in the past with Hitler, is ancient history and in the past. Talk should be of F1 and their engines and bloody good ones indeed.

Good post, Ragged Edge. End of subject perhaps?

Not true. There were many people in the UK, for example my Grandparents, who would not buy a German car for many years after the war or indeed anything German made after WW1.

I was reading a book recently about the Nazi involvement in trying to win the Isle of Man TT in the late 1930's and companies like BMW, NSU and DKW produced hi-tech motorcycle designs with the help of large National Socialist funds. The sort of funding levels not available to other manufacturers.
Some of the German riders and senior management were Nazi party members and did bad things later when the war started and some of these people
were certainly working at the likes of BMW and Mercedes well into the 1970's.

At Mercedes the German Government paid for every aero engine delivered right up until the end of the war. It was these war profits helped by conscripted foreign labour that partly financed the companies racing in the 50's.

Seems some people can´t let go of the past.
Zero people working for Mercedes Benz today were even alive when the war ended. So how are they responsible for any injustices of the past?

Just as some, or rather 'very many' high profile V2 scientists made up the core of America's rocket program from 1945 well into the 1970s, including Saturn 5 and Apollo. I'm afraid life/history is awfully more complex than black/white, goodies/badies.

I didn't say they were.
My post was clearly about racing in the 1950's and the links to the 30's and 40's.

Attempt at getting this more on topic:

What drivers will MercGP be running and, importantly, in what colours? Might we see some AMG branding?

EDIT: As in, what young drivers at the test...

This is the correct view.

Judging by the branding on his shirt, they will also carry AMG branding.

I think they might run Will Stevens, as he currently is the young driver Brawn is supporting.

I like the AMG thing, they should really go for it with incorporating this into their imagery.

Would be very cool. Funny that BMW never run M branding, now that I come to think of it. I reckon, as most I suspect, that they will run silver. I'm unfamiliar with Stevens. Is he any good?

That is wrong. I know for a fact that more than zero people working for Mercedes was alive when the war ended.

Let me guess, you know a 68yo working for Merc who was 3½ when the Russians entered the Reichstag: would you like him sent to prison?

Apologies for going OT Buttoneer, but honestly ...

What would be exactly the involvement of AMG? Zero?
That wouldn't make many difference from the Lotus case, right?

Well some of the funding for the team could come out of AMG's marketing budget.

Neither am I, so I have no clue.

It raises the exciting prospect of not Silver Arrows but AMG Black

I'd prefer silver, but only if it's proper shiny bare metal/chrome look rather than the rather flat, obviously painted, look such as the C9 Le Mans car.

How about the nice BAR Honda black livery?

Not a chance.

That's very nice indeed, but it could only work with minimal advertising/other colours, etc. I fear they won't have the (fiscal) courage for either and we'll get a slightly disappointing compromise.

The only time the Silberpfeile bore the swastika flag was for the Vanderbilt Cup races in the States, incidentally. No flags in European races. The next flag to appear on a Merc was a Union Jack on Stirling's in 1955.

For sure....
I'm just so 'appy that there are more than 2 Heidfeld fans on this board...

this or matte black or just pure carbon :> they'd even save the money used for livery