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Timstr11
QUOTE (The Heel @ Mar 12 2010, 13:54) *
any changes on the car? or are they really waiting until fp3?

Get over it. The car has changed (subtly). Take a good look.
The point is not dramatic visible changes, it's about changes that actually work which may or may not be very visible.
Sakae
QUOTE (BRK @ Mar 12 2010, 07:58) *
Like I said on the FP thread,I think MS has done pretty well for a 41 year old returning to racing after three years. Not that that's going to be used as an excuse,but three years is an awfully long time-once he's back in the groove,gets used to the car and the pressures of a GP weekend,I think he'll do just fine. Testament to his abilities that he's running at the front already. smile.gif

Watch his body language in the videos,that man is on fire on the inside-I think he really,really wants to get back to being the dominant Michael Schumacher we all know and remember so well.

I think so too. It's quite respectable, despite fact that this FP is not an absolute indicator what will follow in next two days.
Galko877
Based on testing and today also Rosberg seems genuinely quicker in this car than Michael. It seems that 0.5 seconds/lap that SportBild reported wasn't very much off either. (At least on shorter stints. In longer they say they are much closer, actually pretty similar.)

Having said that I don't worry for Michael yet. Like BRK said here on the FP thread if he had come back after three years and at 41 and destroyed everybody that would paint a very sad picture of today's F1 and the young talents we have today. If he will be unable to improve over the season then I will start worrying for him. As of now, he has a challenge, but this is what he wanted and I'm sure he will work hard on himself and the car to find his comfort in it.
Timstr11
I'm actually very happy that Nico is doing quite well up.gif
(He certainly has my support around here)
F1Champion
I watched Michael and he wasn't happy with the handling of the car. He was hacksawing at the wheel an awful lot during the laps. He hasn't got enough grip and had understeer and turn in oversteer. You can see that in turn 1-2-3, Michael is hustling the car for a quick time and doing a lot of corrections.

Nico, is a lot happier with the car and is visibly calmer at the steering wheel.

Alot of setup work to be done.
anbeck
Nico leading a friday practice? Now that's something new.... rolleyes.gif

Some should look up the conclusions drawn in the past years when he was P1 on friday, and how that translated into the races.
Raincoat
Congrats Nico on being Number 1 Merc driver! clap.gif
dren
QUOTE (F1Champion @ Mar 12 2010, 08:12) *
I watched Michael and he wasn't happy with the handling of the car. He was hacksawing at the wheel an awful lot during the laps. He hasn't got enough grip and had understeer and turn in oversteer. You can see that in turn 1-2-3, Michael is hustling the car for a quick time and doing a lot of corrections.

Nico, is a lot happier with the car and is visibly calmer at the steering wheel.

Alot of setup work to be done.


I agree, MS seemed to be man handling the car where Nico was just driving it. I expect MS to make some set-up changes and improve a bit for tomorrow.
SchuOz
QUOTE (Raincoat @ Mar 13 2010, 00:18) *
Congrats Nico on being Number 1 Friday driver! clap.gif


Fixed ;)
anbeck
QUOTE (dren @ Mar 12 2010, 14:24) *
I expect MS to make some set-up changes and improve a bit for tomorrow.


I agree. I don't see Schumacher leaving the paddock tonight before he isn't 100% sure that he knows what was the problem. If he needs to, he will talk with his engineers for several hours, and it wouldn't be the first time that the car seemed to be a totally different one on saturday (or even sunday).
salamin
friday debrief
soca
QUOTE (salamin @ Mar 12 2010, 14:35) *



so Michael himself saying that he cant get the max of one lap.
rad787
Michael could be a little rusty, but I have no worries.

First, this is not the Bahrain layout that he dominated in qualifying and the races in the past. It's a new layout requiring low downforce. As we get back to the tracks in which he has already driven, I expect him to be on par if not faster than Rosberg.

The testing mileage he had during the Valencia, Jerez and Barcelona tests are insufficient for him to get back in the groove. Especially that the car has been given an aero update downforce-wise, which could have changed its handling and altered his prior understanding of the car's limits. Also, take note that this is the first time they have run the car in high temperatures.

And in any case, wasn't Brawn himself clear in stating that he expects Michael to be competitive but not totally adapted to the driving until after a couple of races?
merschu
QUOTE (Raincoat @ Mar 12 2010, 18:48) *
Congrats Nico on being Number 1 Merc driver! clap.gif



You are feeling that Nico is Merc no.1 driver and therefore you are clapping!.. So I hope when you feel that Michael is Merc No.1 driver you will keep clapping in the same way and won't start accusing him of preferential treatment..!!
Sakae
QUOTE (soca @ Mar 12 2010, 08:41) *
so Michael himself saying that he cant get the max of one lap.

At least he accepts responsibility for his performance, instead finger pointing his car.
Timstr11
Let's not make this a Michael thread or a Michael vs Rosberg thread.
This thread is primarily about Mercedes in general, let's keep it that way.
soca
QUOTE (MiPe @ Mar 12 2010, 14:34) *
At least he accepts responsibility for his performance, instead finger pointing his car.



absolutely, im his big fan and always supporting and i like that he always says that its his fault not cars.
MikeTekRacing
let's talk about the car.
michael will deliver, no worry on that
UPRC
QUOTE (MiPe @ Mar 12 2010, 10:34) *
At least he accepts responsibility for his performance, instead finger pointing his car.

The best aspect of Michael the racer, in my opinion. Good that he's always been honest about performance and can point the finger at himself. up.gif
min12
Btw did Mercedes bring the super diffusor that German sources whispered about?
Sakae
QUOTE (min12 @ Mar 12 2010, 10:10) *
Btw did Mercedes bring the super diffusor that German sources whispered about?

That is mystery, but considering how little we read about it on front pages of F1 media (which is zero), then I am not sure if we see it tommorrow at all.
salamin
from motorsport-magazin

Rosberg:

- different programs for both drivers (regarding short stints) >> his conclusion, wait for quali
- Mclaren was probably on similar program on the long run, but there is a possibility they were heavier then them
- Ferrari looks strong
- RB didn't looked as strong today as they thought
- tiny problems with balance >> should be fixed during the night >> his conclusion: more pace to come
Kompressor
I've never been a Schumacher fan, so I am happy to see him struggling slightly to keep pace with Rosberg at the moment. I'll be satisfied if both drivers can pull the maximum performance out of the car. I'm more happy to see that the car is looking competitive.
anakin
After analyzing the lap times of the long stints and taking into account that McLaren and Mercedes were on the same program (as heard on the pit radio), I believe we're on par if not a little bit faster than McLaren.

Ferrari and Red Bull on the other hand were super fast, thus I believe it is possible that the current pecking order is:

Ferrari
Red Bull
Mercedes/McLaren

This is only free practice of the very first race, we obviously cannot draw any serious conclusions yet, but my guess is that we are the third fastest car in race trim matching McLaren. Taking into account that Red Bull may struggle with some reliability issues and that McLaren is harder on the tyres than us it's not looking that bad...
Sakae
If the car is in imbalance (oversteer/understeer), I expect in the race high tire degradation, and that may be a killer for any hopes ending the race, nevermind in high speed.
Buttoneer
QUOTE (Timstr11 @ Mar 12 2010, 14:38) *
Let's not make this a Michael thread or a Michael vs Rosberg thread.
This thread is primarily about Mercedes in general, let's keep it that way.

It's actually about the car.
Kooper
What is the blacked out area (looks like it was done with a magic marker) right under the Mercedes logo?

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/13246538
salamin
QUOTE (Kooper @ Mar 12 2010, 17:52) *
What is the blacked out area (looks like it was done with a magic marker) right under the Mercedes logo?

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/13246538


camera
Alonzo
QUOTE (min12 @ Mar 12 2010, 12:10) *
Btw did Mercedes bring the super diffusor that German sources whispered about?

yeah, it looks impressive, at least visually. biggrin.gif
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gallery...1mar/103wri.jpg
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gallery...1mar/104wri.jpg
korzeniow
QUOTE (Alonzo @ Mar 12 2010, 18:52) *


firstly - it's old diffusor
secondly - how it's impressive? it looks like it's one of the smallest diffusors, moreover it looks slimilar to last year version
salamin
QUOTE (korzeniow @ Mar 12 2010, 19:11) *
firstly - it's old diffusor
secondly - how it's impressive? it looks like it's one of the smallest diffusors, moreover it looks slimilar to last year version


1. It's the new diffuser, the upper part is extended.
2. The size of the diffuser is not directly proportional with it's effectiveness
3. I think he was being ironic
korzeniow
QUOTE (salamin @ Mar 12 2010, 19:16) *
1. It's the new diffuser, the upper part is extended.
2. The size of the diffuser is not directly proportional with it's effectiveness
3. I think he was being ironic


1. I don't knew, maby it's new. At a glance it looks like old one.
2. I understand that. But we are talking about "impressive" and "super" diffusors smile.gif
salamin
according to observations on F1technical, mercedes have the following updates:

- the diffusor top vent is larger
- the sidepods are a subtley different shape on top and the undercut is slightly larger.
- the mirrors are different
- the exhause covers are different.
Rambazamba
Ross confirmed to AMuS that the new package is a step forward but the time gain is not as big as the engineers expected
salamin
QUOTE (Rambazamba @ Mar 12 2010, 19:34) *
Ross confirmed to AMuS that the new package is a step forward but the time gain is not as big as the engineers expected


could you provide a link please, can't find it
Rambazamba
"Am Nachmittag bestimmten die Mercedes GP das Tempo. Das neue Aerodynamikpaket brachte einen Fortschritt, doch laut Ross Brawn noch nicht den, den die Ingenieure prognostiziert hatten. "wir sind noch ein bisschen von seiner Marschtabelle weg."

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-...-2-1783541.html
Sausage
QUOTE (Rambazamba @ Mar 12 2010, 19:34) *
Ross confirmed to AMuS that the new package is a step forward but the time gain is not as big as the engineers expected


That must be Ross-speak for "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF" lol.gif
Sakae
QUOTE (Rambazamba @ Mar 12 2010, 13:34) *
Ross confirmed to AMuS that the new package is a step forward but the time gain is not as big as the engineers expected

I wonder if Michael would reconsider his newly acquired position on testing volume; I am of course reffering to a statement attributed to him (from I think last week), that these days they do not require as much testing as in old days. That had startled me, because being from an old school, I would like to discuss with him how you can get feel for the car without riding it on the tarmack in relevant speeds. I still like him to pile in 12'000 km in pre-season testing, and several days between races.
dren
QUOTE (Rambazamba @ Mar 12 2010, 13:34) *
Ross confirmed to AMuS that the new package is a step forward but the time gain is not as big as the engineers expected


I think there is still a bit to be brought out of the car performance wise with the new package from what Nico is saying. How much, I have no idea. I'm guessing they gained a few tenths and maybe can wring another few tenths out of the package.
korzeniow
QUOTE (anakin @ Mar 12 2010, 17:31) *
After analyzing the lap times of the long stints and taking into account that McLaren and Mercedes were on the same program (as heard on the pit radio), I believe we're on par if not a little bit faster than McLaren.

Ferrari and Red Bull on the other hand were super fast, thus I believe it is possible that the current pecking order is:

Ferrari
Red Bull
Mercedes/McLaren

This is only free practice of the very first race, we obviously cannot draw any serious conclusions yet, but my guess is that we are the third fastest car in race trim matching McLaren. Taking into account that Red Bull may struggle with some reliability issues and that McLaren is harder on the tyres than us it's not looking that bad...



Q: Fifth fastest with that brake failure. Do you feel that is where you are or do you think it should be better?

SV: I think today is still very difficult to read. Sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is a bit more difficult, but if you really want to say precisely where everyone is I think at this stage it is still a bit too early. From what I have seen in the session it is no secret that this afternoon Ferrari seemed to run a bit heavier whereas Mercedes tried with a little bit less fuel in the beginning and then put some fuel back into the car for the rest of it. I think at this stage we are in decent shape. I would have loved to run a lot more and get more laps and more data, but at this stage I think Ferrari and McLaren look extremely competitive.
99cent
New Mercedes Snorkel....Similar to the mclaren snorkel shown below

It is located on the top Right of side of front suspension. It seems hiden in comparison with the mclaren snorkel



this was taken before...As you can see the snorkel does not exist in this picture


Mclaren have chosen to place on the top of the nose




If you don't know what the snorkel does, here is an excellent explanation of it http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/235/
RedBaron
Awesome spot biggrin.gif What a great first post!

Edit: I have checked photos and as far as I can see Schumacher was not running this snorkel. It was only Rosberg.
Anomnader
QUOTE (RedBaron @ Mar 12 2010, 23:05) *
Awesome spot biggrin.gif



well, 3 possibilities spring to mind.

1. It is a Snorkel

2. Its something totally different

3. At the moment its nothing, but they stuck it on so that it can be homologated and developed in future.
RedBaron
Can someone please briefly explain this homologated stuff for me, I don't fully understand it all.
99cent
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Mar 12 2010, 15:08) *
well, 3 possibilities spring to mind.

1. It is a Snorkel

2. Its something totally different

3. At the moment its nothing, but they stuck it on so that it can be homologated and developed in future.


It does not seem to have the same function as the Mclaren's device. It may redistribute air to the rear diffuser. It's impossible to know right now with a few pictures.

I couldn't see it on schumachers car or on either car in the friday morning practice.

Must of have been introduced for rosberg's car only in the afternoon practice as an experiment.
korzeniow
QUOTE (99cent @ Mar 13 2010, 00:16) *
It does not seem to have the same function as the Mclaren's device.


It can't have the same function because simply Mercedes doesn't have sharkfin drunk.gif
Captain Tightpants
QUOTE (RedBaron @ Mar 13 2010, 10:11) *
Can someone please briefly explain this homologated stuff for me, I don't fully understand it all.

Homologation is a process is an approval process. It used to happen a lot in rallying: in order to be accepted as an entrant, a manufacturer had to make a certain number of road cars in the space of a year. During the time of Group A, I think this was set at 25,000. If the team wanted to make any major changes to the actual car - not the addition or subtraction of prupose-built racing parts - then they would have to make another quota of 25,000. This was a problem in the Group B era, because the homologation level was set to something like 2,000 models, and if teams wanted to make an update, then they only needed to change a certain percentage - something like 20% of the full number- do get changes approved.

The reason I'm saying this is because it's the best example of homologation there is. It essentially sets the basic model of the car in stone. In the context of Formula 1, certain parts of the car need to be homologated, including the survival cell. If a team wishes to make changes to any part that is homologated, then they need to undergo crash testing again, and the FIA will only allow changes on the basis of safety. The idea is to make it extraordinarily difficult for team to go changing certain parts of the car. You can see how homologation may be applied to other areas of the car, like the diffuser. It's clear the FIA wants to direct the development of cars by influencing what they can and cannot change, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I honeslty believe that parts like the diffuser should be a spec piece because a spec piece would make it easier to overtake.

However, I very much doubt that the so-called "snorkel" on the W01 is the same as McLaren's at all. The MP/4-25 specifically directs the airflow onto the rear wing through the shark fin, and the W01 is missing a fin of its own. Plus, they would have to plot a route through the car, which is not something they'd be able to do overnight and given that it runs trough the survival cell, they'd have to re-homologate the car.
arknor
QUOTE (korzeniow @ Mar 12 2010, 23:23) *
It can't have the same function because simply Mercedes doesn't have sharkfin drunk.gif

rosberg was some 3mph faster at the speed trap ?
eREr
QUOTE (RedBaron @ Mar 13 2010, 00:05) *
Awesome spot biggrin.gif What a great first post!

Edit: I have checked photos and as far as I can see Schumacher was not running this snorkel. It was only Rosberg.


Same happened today at Renault. Kubica's car had a new small inlet in front of the cockpit (top center of the nosecone), while Petrov's hadn't. So same here at Merc camp, and everybody just guessing about the function of these new snorkels.wink.gif
99cent
Also ......a new cable operated front wing pully system...not sure if this is new either

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