Well if Mac proposed stupid contract - no blame at all - better retirement than play supporting driver. But Jenson seems one who is really greedy.

Were they? I'm interested in seeing. As far as I knew, they've only shot down rumors of driver change-up for 2010. If you have links regarding 2011 and beyond then please put them up because clarity on that would definitely be useful.

Except he isn't.

This is going to be really bad for F1 as the 2008 champ will badly expose the 2009 champ showing that 2009 was nothing but a bizarre season which shouldnt be taken that seriously

Jenson would be better to partner some cheap driver in a small team, outdrive him and blame the team for his lack of success.. but now he will show the world that he definitely doesnt belong to the elite by being badly badly outdriven by Lewis under the same conditions..

Book it

Drivers better than Raikkonen right now:

Alonso
Lewis
Vettel
Massa

I believe the keyword was "available". Though there's not that many more then 4 drivers available to begin with

Yes I said available. But aside from that, to be honest, I don't buy that that these guys are all better than Raikkonen. I think Lewis probably is. However, just as has been the case with Alonso for the last couple years (both of which Alonso did much worse than any of the others including Raikkonen), Raikkonen has basically been driving a POS since he was WCC. Beginning of 2008 he handily out-performed Massa but then they changed the front suspension and the car's been either a major under-steerer (2008) or POS (2009) ever since. So I think you have to look at the years before that, which of course indicate he is better than Massa and possibly Alonso. My personal opinion is that Vettel WILL be the best, but he doesn't finish often enough yet to be considered one of 4 drivers definitely better than Raikkonen. Frankly, I think Raikkonen is at least the 3rd best, but certainly arguably one of the top 4. For example, if one is to go by the logic that Alonso is one of the top 4 drivers because it's his results prior to the last two years (ie the years he's been driving POS) that he should be judged by, then one must apply the same logic to any other drivers that have been driving POS, and Raikkonen was the WCC at that time.

On somewhat separate note, part of why I think McLaren with Raikkonen would have been all-conquering is that Raikkonen is the total opposite driver of Massa in that Massa needs car with lots of understeer whereas Raikkonen needs oversteerer. Lewis likes the same kind of car as Raikkonen so the same car would have been excellent for both of them whereas typically one of the drivers has to more-so drive car that's fundamentally not as optimal as for the other driver.

How would you feel if you were the WDC and an uproven guy who's got 2 podiums in 70 races was on nearly double what you were offered

Pretty pissed off and miffed would be my guess

For 2010? I think that's well known, he wasn't an option for 2010 until the Santander/Ferrari/Kimi arrangement was made.

By "option", I mean somebody who can be signed because there are no barriers in the way. Alonso was always going to wind up at Ferrari, and his pre-contract seemed to guarantee that for 2011. While Ferrari were no doubt working on getting Alonso to join them for 2010, he did not become an option until such time as Raikkonen was fully released from his contract.

Feel free to disregard any news stories that disgaree with you. The Indepedent contains new information: that Mercedes will follow Brawn's advice and do everything they can.

Not idiotic just like Jenson to Williams.


The press is the press, a newspaper article is a credible source whether it is accurate or not is another matter!!!...

Im surprised you believe ferrari would be open and honest regarding their contract negotiations with a driver and bought into the nonsense that Alonso only became an option at the last minute, when its come out that they were trying to get him for 2009. Alonso is friends with members of the spanish press and thats where they got their exclusive inside info. Its clearly upset people like you who enjoyed lambasting the spanish press as idiots when infact they were right all along.

That does not mean ferrari had not planned long in advance to boot Kimi for 2010. Ferrari's explanation was just political word play. Kimi's fate was sealed a long time ago and the spanish press knew this because Alonso told them.

Start to read what you read with critical eyes. The Independent is the same story that was out all day long and the Alan Henry thing was totally new information. Alan Henry also have a lot of credibility and some say he knows everything that happens at McLaren. I'd say it is very likely Button has signed for McLaren and I find that very very surprising.

Okay, let's have a look at Henry with those same critical eyes. Not once does he mention a source, or even if he has one. The only people he directly quotes are Ross Brawn saying he hopes Button will stay and Ron Dennis talking about McLaren forging a new direction. Everything else is speculatory.

I'll believe it when it's official.

Otherwise, McLaren could just be using Henry for leaking.

It would be a shame for me, as I really wanted to see Kimi back at McLaren. But I'll be happy with Jenson, too.

If I may ask, what happened to the Kimi has 200 pages of Mac contract to get through? Is everybody just going to jump on to the 'JB to Mac wagon' and forget everything that has tranpired till now (or should I say 'forget all rumours concocted thus far')?

That's generally what people do.

I just find it perculiar that people are so sporadic in their opinions. Yes a wise man, in the face of new 'evidence' should be able to change his mind. But now it just seems any new rumour has people in a spin. The JB to Mac story could very well be 100% spot on, but if the discussions that have been going on the last few weeks are anything to go by then JB, KR, NH and HK will be alternating seats next year.

Resigns, or re-signs?

They mean the exact opposite, and I think you meant the latter!

When you're calling others idiots, you might want to be clearer in what you're saying...

i was referring to starting a thread named ''jenson button has joined mclaren'' based on that one article alone as being idiotic while there have been various other articles in the recent days stating the same with kimi or heidfeld.
going by that routine,we should have ''kimi has joined mclaren'',''kimi has joined redbull'',''trulli has joined nascar'',''lewis has joined brawn'',''heidfeld has joined mclaren'',''kimi has taken a sabbatical'',''hamilton vetoes kimi'' etc etc threads as well..

as i said earlier most probably jenson will resign with brawn soon enough and that thread with that title is going to look even more stupid.

It's re-sign... Resign as in resignation, to quit... re-sign as in sign again...

RE-SIGN...

Band wagons are so much fun though! Jump on enough of them and you eventually end up in some strange places.


Oh and umm Tolyngee

if u cant even figure out what ''resign'' im referring to,u probably fit in that category as well

Lol Kimi fans boys and their excuses

Heck they might as well form 'Team Finland' with Kimi and Heikki - it's still possible...

I remember when Biritsh fans jumped off the SS Button at the beginning of 2007 and made straight for the good ship Hamilton. And then in 2009, when the Hamilton was in danger and the Button was the strongest of the lot, all the fans came crawling back and acted like they'd never left.

Aye i noticed that too! But that being said can't blame them i think lewis has had more press time on his "journey" to F1 then most other drivers. Me personally i have to admit i havent been as big of a f1 fan as i have been this year ive been more of the catch a few races here and there supporting button and being a bit bored of the schumy reign till this year when there was nothing to watch on tv so i threw on the australia GP saw button winning and became immersed for the whole season. (I only caught 2 races last year lol) GOD im such a fanboy lol

Mikko, Jari and Kimi - Ford Focus WRC 2007 (with 09 headlight decals ) - the 3-car superteam!

Sorry, there's only one resign... Resign and sign/re-sign are two completely different words...

I'll at least extend you some credit that at least all three terms are verbs...

Some here have English as their second (or third even) language, and while I assume it's your first and only tongue, it tends to confuse those who have English as a secondary language when they see words that are obviously the exact opposite of what was meant, as they tend to incorrectly believe that those who speak in only that one language probably get it right for the most part...

I mention that all three are verbs as people tend to get affect/effect wrong all the time (one's a verb, one's a noun), and if you think it's confusing to people who only know English, how do you think others who English is a secondary language feel reading a noun when someone meant a verb?

perhaps by reading the whole post and not just one word ''resign''?..if u read my post,ull see there is only ''re-sign'' i can possibly refer to..

strictly speaking,your right.i agree the word ''resign'' without the ''-'' in b/w gives the exact opposite meaning,but posting on an internet forum in what little spare time i have,i(or anyone for that matter) could hardly care less about those things..relating it with the rest of the post,it becomes obvious im using re-sign here.

This was written in haste, so obviously I mean the opposite...

Wasnt McLaren alive and kicking the last races of 2009? IIRC Lewis / Mclaren scored the most points in the last 7 races.

What knowledge does Mercedes have exactly? They have KERS (which won't be running until 2012 at least) and their engines. The rest was/is all McLaren (braking, chassis, aero, gearbox, ECU, etc.). I don't see why people think that McLaren will suddenly sink while Brawn will become a super team.

Brawn will have more resources, that's for sure, but they have as much chance of ending up like Toyota (big budget, lots of resources, no results) than of ending up like Ferrari (big budget, lots of resources and results). However, their competitive advantage, which effectively gave them both 2009 titles, will not be a factor in 2010. That's gotta be a big worry for them at this point.

Is this for sure??? Because I find Button idiot if he will do this. Lewis will eat him....
Button is just not fast as kimi and he will finish being Hamilton dog....

McLaren have the best engineers and best facilities in F1. They're also the most corporate-friendly team in F1 and have more money behind them as a team than any other in F1 (aside from maybe Ferrari), even with Mercedes' pullout. They could have more if they asked Mumtalakat for it.

I wouldn't even say that Mercedes will put more resources behind their team than McLaren will have.

This is nowhere near the death of McLaren. Macca will still build championship-contending cars, and they'll be powered still by championship engines. People who are saying this is the end of McLaren are foolish, naive, or both.

was about to post the same thing..when people talk about merc passing on ''vital'' imformation onto brawn,ive no idea what theyre talking about..merc are engine suppliers....brawn ofcourse will have a huge boost next year in terms of resources,funding available.Good for them,but this doesnt mean mclaren are going to be handicapped in anyway.

its the start of a long journey towards complete independency for mac that was inevitable sooner or later

I can see both McLaren and Mercedes being top teams next year, so in that sense I guess it makes more sense for Button to stay with the team he knows. But the main issue may well be contract length. This is Buttons big chance to get a top car for a good few years so he's got to go with whichever team is offering the longer contract. No doubt Hamilton will be a fast teammate and I can see Button struggling against him a little in qualifying, but during the race Button's shown this year that his speed is not in question.

In the end, I think Button will be back with Mercedes. Surely, Merc want to have the #1 on their car for their first year.

Henry is just a leak plant for McLaren. This report is surely something to take seriously from McLaren's end, but as what- an actual deal with Jenson, or a signal to Kimi- is completely up to interpretation.

That's the way I see it. MAC can easily win the WCC with these two drivers. I now want Button to join MAC because he's already won a WDC, so now let's have some fun.

I trust Alan Henry, but I'm surprised Button didn't sign for the same salary as Hamilton. Shame about Kimi though.

Er... you got all that from the article?

Lately all those rumours in F1 tend to become true. So I believe in that story.

Shame about Kimi

The part about speculation, yes. Henry uses words like "expected to" and "will" and opposed to "has".

As for th parts about Alonso and Ferrari, no. I got that from the reactions of people to the "news".

If it were just about anyone but Henry I would be very sceptical. McLaren wouldn't use Henry lightly as contract baiting, he has too much history with them. Still it's possible....

Kimi leaving the sport, even for a year, would be a great shame. He has looked serious race winning form in the last few GPs and it's been a while since we have had 4 WDCs on the grid.

Jenson knows that he would have a big fight on his hands at McLaren against Hamilton who is well established there, and bloody quick. That would make his decision if true, a strange one.

That's fine Captain, some F1 followers just place greater faith on old insiders like Alan Henry than some of the general media hacks who submit stories which usually prove to be sheer guesswork. When you read in depth material from the likes of Nigel Roebuck it instantly rings of truth and balance and years of trust built up with the real decision makers inside teams.

Of course it's possible Henry has been suckered by his unquoted source but I think it less likely than it being a deal being officially embargoed prior to personal sponsors etc being fully informed of the detail. Just as certain things had to be finalised with the Alonso to Ferrari deal which was a poorly guarded secret.

We could all be suckers couldn't we?

I don't think Kimi cares. He still gets a full salary pay for doing nothing! Kimi has the best job in the world next year, getting paid 12 million pounds and he doesn't have to spend 1 day at work.

He's so lucky

Off topic but that's the worst motivation for a sportsperson to win, and quite sad if true. I had been coming to the conclusion prior to Felipe's injury that Kimi didn't much care any more but then his performances picked up noticeably.

I still find it very hard to believe. Jenson is not signed yet. Maybe Mclaren are having some fun with Kimi at the moment to try scare him and his managers to give in their demands or else they will sign Jenson.

I reckon Kimi and his managers will now lower their demands after these rumours that Mclaren finds acceptable. I'm going to be very suprised if Jenson doesn't end up with Brawn GP/Mercedes next year.