Call me in 15 years.

I don't agree with "Lewis Hamilton has set a new standard". But I also don't agree with the statement above. Fact is, unless some1 has a crystal ball (that is 100% accurate), one cannot make such a statement. We don't know. He could turn out to fall very short of 'GREAT' or he could very well turn out to be a 8 times WDC. Time will tell.

off topic- what does your signature 'i am the sig' mean?

Willi weber has told German press, Bunte, that Schumacher is "fit" and "could race for victories"
Just adding fuel to the fire?

I'm not a Hamilton "fan" by any means. It's just that I cant help but be impressed by a guy that matched and beat a double world champion teammate in his first season. Alonso was until then regarded as the best, but Hamilton despite his inexperience at the top level addressed that straight away. Schumacher was a very talented driver, but lets face it, Alonso of 2007 is in a different league to Martin Brundle of 1992. Sure, Schumacher has got the records but when put into context, Lewis Hamilton is a step above. He may not win as many races and championships because he may not have a car that will be as competitive as the cars Schumacher drove for year after year, but the performances he has displayed thus far in the cars he has been dealt with have been sensational. You just get the feeling that despite the best efforts of Alonso, Vettel, Massa, Button, Kimi or whoever, they can huff and puff all they wish, but Hamilton can always do something special that the others are simply not capable of. He does it time and again, like I say, i'm not exactly a fan of his but his stand out talent is obvious to me. Some years ago I was at Zandvoort forthe Marlboro Masters or whatever its called and standing trackside, I told my friend this man (ham) will be a multiple WDC in F1 sooner rather than later. I never felt on the other hand that Schumacher had the same natural talent. It was more a case of graft and hard work and having the right people around him spending overtime with engineers and mechancis to get that extra bit of performance. Just my opinion, Sorry Schumacher fans.

Amazing how a fractured neck can heal itself at the snap of one's fingers.

"Hey, Schuey...Kimi's retiring(!), wanna come back?"

Was it fractured?

Don't ask me.. I actually missed the excus...sorry, reasons for his sudden drawback..

The fracture explanation stems from MS' ever knowing fans

Now that's an interesting NEW angle, should he decide to come out from retirement. Must be only because he doesn't have to face Kimi. Wow. I bet you that 1/3 on this BB will find similar logic as it relates to Alonso or Hamilton.

Still it cannot explain why he came out of retirement to help Ferrari in first place even he knew he had to face RodrigoL's "god" Kimi.

The guy who was already off the boil before he retired, still managed to make Massa looked like a lapdog.



Losing the WDC with a massive lead of 17 points over the WDC with 2 races to go. That must be a new standard.

man, I am not saying lewis isn't great
but saying he set a new standard....well...he has to prove it
of course there is time, but it's easy to get 1-2 titles then fade away...it's very hard to be consistent for 15 years and win 7 titles in those years.
up until now scumacher has set a standard for the others..in terms of dedication and consistency over the years.

until now lewis has got 1 wdc, won against massa with 1 huge point in the last race/turn/lap and has managed to not get another one despite having a huge lead...
the kid is great but he still has got a lot to proove over the years.
saying he is the new benchmark is over enthusiastic. he is the new benchmark for rookies, but that is about it

Nothing can explain that, because it didn't happen. And I'm glad to see finally we all know why

Er, yes, because just maybe every teammate he had was forced to be his lapdog? Eddie Irvine not being allowed to test, anyone? Herbert not having access to the telemetery, anyone? Barrichello giving way to his number 1, anyone? His career has more smudges than a scat porn video.

Hamilton as you correctly say did lose the world championship in his rookie season (shock, horror!) yet, he still finished ahead in the standings of his vastly more experienced, double world champion teammate who was ranked as the top driver at the time. Not bad for a rookie season is it?

funny you should say you are not a 'fan'. your comments say otherwise. "... has set a new standard"....LOL!

well obviously he hasnt set a new standard in terms of records ad points because he has only been in F1 for 5 minutes. But in those five minutes has has demonstrated raw speed and general all round ability that is simply unheard of in F1 having only been in the sport for as long as he has.

If opening my eyes and acknowledging talent makes me a fan, so be it! I watch races upto five days after they are broadcasted or when i can be bothered to make time to watch it from my HDD. Hardly makes me a fan for any driver!

I keep on hearing this 'every of his teammate was forced to be a lapdog'. I just don't buy this. Sorry. For your record, likewise, I don't buy Lewis' teammate was / is forced to be his lapdog. IF you are fast, no one could force to to be lapdog.



Very impressive indeed. I am not saying Lewis is not that good. I just don't buy your hype on him. IF he is as good as your hype, I don't see anything could stop him breaking MS' records. Remember, MS had wasted 4 years of his prime when he was lured into joining the struggling Ferrari in 1996 - 1999.

Lewis should have no problem to beat it, if he is as truly as great as your hype.

Praise for Lewis doesn't equate to hype. They are objective observations. The man has won everything already. Hamilton had his "1996 Ferrari" already and just look, he won races in it by the end of the season. Accept it. It is reality. He was a world champion in his second second year and beat his double world champion teammate who was at the peak of his career in the same car and whats more, completely rattled him in his first season! If Lewis in 2007 had a teammate in the same mould as Brundle, Verstappen, old Patrese, Lehto, Irvine, Barrichello, Massa etc there perhaps could be good reason to say my observations are nothing but hype. But Alonso is Alonso, a fine, fine driver, a double WDC, who beat Schumacher fair and sqaure who has proved his talent for many years now in F1. Alonso was a driver that many considered to be the finest in the sport in 2007. Schumacher despite his 15 or whatever years he had in F1 had drivers that were really not very good or special at all and they have all been treated as second class citizens in their teams.

Will you people get over it? Schumacher had 7 world titles, sometimes won in awful cars, sometimes in good cars, sometimes with the FIA against him and sometimes for him. The fact that he survived fifteen years in the sport and went out effectively on top says something. If Hamilton is WDC contention for almost every year he's in F1, then we can put him in the same boat as Schumacher. Until then, comparisons are fanciful.

Or...until Schumacher has a teammate with the quality of Alonso comparisons are fanciful.

And Schumacher won championship in awful cars?

He never had a "neck problem" in the first place, as some site reported, it was just the matter of him not digging the car and backing out.

now you're being silly.

Schumacher never won a championship in an awful car.

He did, however win races in a car that was worse than any car Lewis has won a race in.

This year is a prime example.

When the McLaren was shit, Lewis was shit. When it was good, Lewis was good.

In fact, sometimes, when the McLaren was good, Lewis was shit. (eg Monaco).

With regards to team mates, Ferrari had a clear #1 policy. McLaren had a #2 driver who was a double WDC and promised equal status, whilst the team boss even said "we are fighting Alonso".

Lewis had the #1 status against Fernando, but the difference is that Ferrari bothered to tell their #2.

The fact that Fernando managed the exact same number of points against Lewis in team Lewis is amazing. It is sort of like putting Lewis and Nelson PK Jr in PK sports in GP2 2006.

Given this scenario, who would have taken the 2006 GP2 title?

I forgot what the thread was about! Clearly fanboys of all colours rule here. Grow up.

I think the time out for Michael and his age and maybe even his injury make it unlikely of a return to the top step. But the biggie for me is to rekindle the desire to the HUGE levels of the 90s. Clearly his focus was waning towards the end of his career when Fred could beat him in a Renault. And Michael will also have a fear which will be a negative to a return full time - the fear he will fail and tarnish the memories of the glory years. Money will not be a factor at all. Maybe he could go to Mercedes if he is a patriotic German who wants to add a final chapter to his F1 career as a consultant of some sort. The Todt days at Ferrari are long gone.

I read a lot of stupid things on this BB, yet every time I look there is a new candidate for top 10

Ask Lewis if he agrees with me. I reckon he would.

The 2009 McLaren suffered in high speed corners. As such, these tracks saw him drop out of Q1.

In tracks like Monaco, the McLaren had a good chance.

Problem is, Lewis stuffed it into the wall.

Look at the Renault as an example. It was shit everywhere. Fernando still mostly put it in Q3, (albeit mostly at the back).

MS would have made more out of the shit cars than Lewis. So would Fernando.

Lewis is amazing when he has the best car, but crap when he has a crap car.

The Willams was easily better than the Benneton in 1995.

Not driven by Hill and DC it wasn't, Hamilton maybe.

Silly me, Hamilton being grafted into the best car on the grid is clearly better than a seven time WDC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_stig

How easily people forget the days of the %107 rule. Look at the spread between first and last these days and back when CGB was king. He could have a crap car that was a second off and still be mid field, add some Brawn strategy and he placed high, add some attrition and the legendary Ferrari reliability when engines went boom and he could win with a shit car.

Lewis (and others) has the rules and the development freeze hampering them in comparisons of years past. If you are off your game or if the car is not suited to the track - blammo - you see it now. How many winners this year?

in case this hasn't been posted already

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/vid...cher-interview/

Interesting,

If you see that video, and read Schumi's manager's latest quote:
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-...ould-win-races/





His manager is singing the tunes, Eddie Jordan is singing the tunes, and Schumi looks up for it, Niki Lauder's quotes may contradict, but his word is no better then anyone elses/


The speculation is being kept alive by at least one person in Mercedes camp, and one person in Schumi's camp, and Schumi himself very silent still.

It's interesting.

Thanks BMW_F1

Not sure how to break this too you but you are a Hamilton fan, not by any means, by all means.
Your post is totally one sided.

The truth is Lewis Hamilton is a mistake prone big mouth that has a 50:50 WDC winning ratio when enjoying both #1 car and #1 status in the team. The championship he did win was a total fluke, worse then any in recent memory including Button's and Villeneuve's. In fact statistically Hamilton is the next Jacques Villeneuve.

Schumacher is a seven time champion who exhibited such total domination for so many YEARS that things came to the point that many where calling on Max to some how hobble the unbeatable champion.

Nuff said!

I'm more inclined to believe Lauda. I don't think he's up for a full season and the pressure of a championship battle any more.

"very silent" aka "refusing to talk about F1 in any context", as stated in the text below the video...

...but also towards SPIEGEL ONLINE, who had an interview with him aswell.

I would of believed Lauda before the August of this year, no one really ever thought Michael would come back or attempt too like he did in August, it was such a shock, and it was such a surprise even after his own manager denied he'll come back, it shows, no matter what anyone is saying, you can't rule it out, if you see Schumi's words this year:

For a brief moment I felt alive again,
In response to coming back:
Not right now,
Never say never

Why is Michael inviting more speculation, and why is his manager not denying it, and why is Eddie Jordan convinced.


Let's say Michael does not come back, I think he may have tried too or considered the mercedes seat, and if that is so, Michael will let us know about it in the future, like he let us know he didn't go to Mclaren Mercedes because of Ron Dennis, Schumacher will let us know the real truth in time.


In terms of speculation, Niki Lauder's opinion is nothing, I'm more inclined to believe Ross Brawn then Niki, Brawn thinks Michael won't come back, and I kinda believe Brawn because Brawn's been with Schumi for a long time, but maybe Brawn is keeping a lid on it because Schumi has told him to do so until a final deal is done////
People in formula one know how to keep a secret away from the public, look at Flavio and the renault drama, no one would of known anything about it hadn't a certain ex driver wanted to avenge himself.

So much stuff behind the scenes is done behind closed doors, that's why Eddie Jordan sniffed this Mercedes talk with Schumi, Jordan must of thought it was a deep enough discussion to convince him.

i know who the stig is, i didn't know what 'i am the sig' meant.
i'm still confused, but that's coz i'm not in the mood to read the whole thing.

anyway...

Schumacher is still worthy of a GP drive if he is fit enough and wants to. I certainly think he would be capable of points scoring finishes. I just dont see him being anywhere near the pace of a Lewis Hamilton in the same car. My point being, Schumacher never seemed to be a driver happy to make up the numbers, but if he returned, I think he would be doing just that. Despite that, I hope he does return but I think it will be more Alan Jones than Niki Lauda. The driver field today has a lot more quality than the mid to late 1990's when Schumacher was up against Hill, Coulthard, Barrichello, Irvine, an old Berger, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Ralf etc.

With regards to the slightly off topic comments that I seemed to have triggered, i'll wrap up with the following:

In MY opinion (as we merely seem to be going in circles) I believe in the following:

For a period, Schumacher was probably the best overall driver in F1. Perhaps Hakkinen was his only match before the new generation came in. The rest of the field in those days was pretty poor quality.

Schumacher has had pretty medicore teammates throughout his career. An old Patrese, Brundle, Verstappen, Lehto, Irvine and Barrichello....that is low quality stuff when you consider what Lewis dealt with from day 1.

Schumacher also has always had an obsurd amount of preferential treatment when at Ferrari and Benetton.

Schumacher made an increasing number of silly mistakes towards the latter part of his career

Schumacher looked a bit past it at times when up against Alonso.

Lewis Hamilton is more talented than Schumacher was at his peak.

Lewis Hamilton beat a current double world champion in equal cars in his first season of F1.

Lewis Hamilton is more of a known quantity than Schumacher was because he raced against the previous best in F1 (Alonso) in the same team and beat him.

Lewis Hamilton in his rookie season beat Fernando Alonso over a season when Alonso was considered the best of the lot.

Schumacher is capable of doing a decent job if he does return to F1 and can score points and perhaps podiums in the right situation.

Schumacher had to beat the likes of Hill and Villeneuve then. But now he would be dealling with something completley different. A younger, fitter, and I think one of the fastest drivers ever to grace GP racing, Lewis Hamilton. I dont think Schumacher would have dealt with him at his peak, and there is certainly no way in hell he could get anywhere near Lewis hamilton at the age of 40!

I hope Schumacher does return. I just dont know why he would be happy to make up the numbers and why he doesnt try something new and challenege himself in a more refreshing way.

He won't return BEHIND the wheel on competition level .... not in F1.

He can't .... He wants it maybe, oh sure, let him dream like his fans.... a nice dream bubble what will be popped next GP Season, no matter what. Time goes on, but Schumacher won't drive on the tracks in F1 anymore.

Not for Ferrari at least .... and if he would do it or Mercedes then the German brand would loose face. because if Schumacher won't win, it's the CAR, the Mercedes what is causing this. And if he wins, it's HIM, instead of the Mercedes car. So any way, they will not maximise they're wishes and/or goals they probably have set in they're 1st season in F1 since ... (whoaa..... long loooong time).

what they however would LOVE to do, (and pay mucho's money for as well) is to ave Michael Schumcher as brand-ambassador. In a job he had last years at Ferrari. Standing at the pitwall, and just being a part of the brand Mercedes.... And so now and then he has to stand next to a car and say something like : "I love Mercedes because ...blahblahblahblah"... and that's it.
Great advertising for a German Brand? No? A German 7 time worldchampion who advocates the Mercedes engine/car/brand .... how more bieutifull can you get it as a German Brand?

It all seems to look to go that way ... his Ferrari contract is changing, Alonso doesn't want Michael do the Kimi-trick on him, he wanst him out-of-there asap. (blame the guy, eh, Michael finally got Kimi out of Ferrari so his 'personal mission' there is over. Done, ready, basta).

AND, if I in the end was WRONG, and Michael still get's into a cockpit of a Mercedes in 2010, then...then... I will have a big ass laughing time, watching a old man, trying very hard, but won't succeed in his wishes..... But rest assured, it won't come to that. The powers that be in F1, are juicing every piece of juice that the brand-Schumcher still has. The man is done for, over, finito, FIN, the End....

Oh, and the main reason why I think he won't race in 2010? His wife. If he would race again in F1, she would get a divorce from him.

Now..... I don't see him getting a divorse for this.

Ferrari had the best car, Massa earned got alot of free points from the FIA, Kimi had to pull over for Massa a couple of races so he didn't loose out too much on Lewis and still lost. While Lewis had no help from his teammate or the FIA what so ever.

Even the FIA went to visit the Mclaren garage during the weekends to make sure Lewis was no #1 driver at the times with Alonso. And he was just a rookie back then. In the meantime, Martin Brundle was kicking MS his butt in his 2nd year in F1

MS can't do shit in a weak car, he can only win if nobody else is driving lol. Lewis won 2 races and some poles in a weaker car then the Red Bulls and the Brawn without everybody pulling out of the race

MS has been cracking so many times under pressure, I don't even know where to start and this was an experienced MS, not a rookie

edit: Kimi almost beat him in his shitty Mclaren and Alonso beat MS driving his weak Renault which was totally nerfed by the FIA

yes schumacher strongest teamate in the paper was triple world champion dady ( in his 39) Piquet Sr. ...in 5 races (1991) in the same team/car Piquet Sr. beat him by 0.5 point poor michael he has never beat world champion in the same car

By reading some of the posts here one gets the feeling Schumacher was such a sh*t driver. It must have been difficult to be an anti-Schumacher in all those years if people still couldn't get over the fact he was a great driver whether they liked him or not.

OFF (just because a lot of posts are off before me)

Everybody has a different standard for greatness. To me Hamilton won't be in the same league as Schumacher until he goes to another team (a struggling team preferably) and shows he can build up something there. He is a great natural talent but you also have to admit his career has been pampered like no other driver's before. That helped him to do what he did in his first two seasons. I think it's a bit unfair to compare drivers in 2007 and in 1992, since not only F1 was technically a totally different beast back then, but drivers way to F1 was a lot different, less polished and less calculated. And Lewis' career was the most calculated of them all, since he was 13. Granted he needed to put in his talent, but you still can't get rid of the "fed with a silver spoon" feeling.

Lewis is great at driving the car, actually I like his style and mentality - and I think it reminds a lot of Schumacher (also the fact that their style and mentality is somewhat error-prone). But he has still a lot to prove IMO before putting him among all time greats.

BTW, Schumacher and Hamilton did race against each other once: in 2001 in the final race of the World Kart Championships. Schumacher beat Hamilton easily. Just saying.

Anyway what does Hamilton do in a Schumacher-comeback thread?

well he couldn't, he was reigning WDC more than half of his career:D

LOL Hamilton was 16 and Schumi 32 years old. Nice comparison

I Agree!

Bambers cartoon is funny.

to race with world champion in the same team first you must have a C.O.J.O.N.E.S...this is something Schumi has never had

haha, zing!

Yeah, cowardly sod would never do something like partner a 3X WDC in his second ever race!

Also to everyone who says Schumi never faced any "greats" in his era. The reason that there were no other great drivers was --- schumi