I presume you are saying Chelsea is the best team 'cause they are top of the log. With that kind of reasoning, shouldn't you be saying Button is the best?

Do You really need to turn _every_ page of this thread into trash with your blatantly obvious Hamilton obsessed, irrelevant reasoning?

Hamilton is the most naturally talented driver ever, he's superhuman, can You leave now?

Yes. Button COMBINED with the Brawn team were the best of 2009 as are the Chelsea players COMBINED with the management, board etc.

But if we are to seperate the driver from the rest of the variables that contribute towards the final standings, I would say Hamilton is the best driver at present and is a better driver than Schumacher ever was. This happens to be my opinion and it doesnt mean i'm a fan of Lewis.

Back on topic. I can see the benefit for Mercedes to take on Schumacher from a marketing perspective, but I just don't think Schumacher would be able to mix it with the young guns. He was quite error prone in his latter years and that aspect will only have gotten worse since 2006. Of course, Schumacher may have changed as a person, maybe he wants to do it for the sheer fun of it rather than the Schumacher of old where the ends (winning) justified the means. If that is the case and Mercedes are willing to take him on - then by all means, I suggest Schumacher should go for it. But he and Mercedes would be sadly mistaken if they honestly think Schumacher pound for pound can match the likes of Hamilton and Vettel. IMO, the quality of the field in 2010 is vastly superior to the filed that Schumacher faced in his prime.

Get real, the drivers were extremely weak back then. 1994-2000 period is a joke, he was lucky Senna died. The only good driver left was Mika

JV, Hill, Frentzen, Coulthard as your WDC competitors? Give me a break. Even Mark Webber smokes these guys.

If MS raced in the 80's or now in present day with very good drivers, he'd get destroyed, just like Alonso did to him in his weak Renault car.

edit: LH & Alonso are far better than JV ofcourse. Mika was actually good, better than Kimi for sure. But he always drove crap cars that blows up all the time or are either not competitive with the exception of 1998.

You're sooo right. Whoever wants to hire MS to drive for their team is just a fool. Happy?

Shall I tell everybody here why, WHY OH WHY, Michael Schumacher will NOT drive in the Mercedes F1 car? .....

Mercedes is a RACING team, ... not a driving team, and with RACING team I mean, 2 cars, 2 drivers, 2 chances of whatever ....

While Michael is being a person who needs, 2 cars and the other car has to be his SLAVE. Slower BY CONTRACT, ... we have seen excample to many of "his" way of doing F1.... Teammate in front of Michael? Then the teammate has to apply the brake more and more and more untill the teammate is BEHIND Michael.

It's not only HIS way of doing F1, it's his ONLY way of doing F1.

And I am sorry to spoil your dream here for the fanboys, ... he never will agree on such, this way he never before partipated in F1 ...

Not saying that. He'd be a good adition for Mercedes to partner Rosberg since Rosberg is still unproven and they need a lead driver. I'm still not that confident about Kimi's ability, much rather have MS in the car.

But he's not that special compared to the top current drivers out there, especially Alonso

Hmm; so if we take your benchmark that 'Mika was better than Kimi for sure' and our knowledge that MS/MH were very similarly matched when in equal/healthy machinery then we seem to arrive at the conclusion that 'Michael is better than Kimi for sure'; a position which spectacularly contradicts your assertion that MS would 'get destroyed' by today's drivers
I might find this a problematic paradox, but then given your conviction that the 1999 & 2000 McLarens were 'not competitive' the reality dawns that I'd best let it wash over me.

If a retired Mika Salo can win a race in that Ferrari, that pretty much sums up how good that 1999 Ferrari was and Irvine almost winning the WDC. The Mclaren in 2000 sucked, so unreliable. Mercedes gave MS the title. And then when traction control got reintroduced, the Mclaren became even worse with the new electronics.

In equal machinary, Mika would certainly beat MS. When Mclaren was terrible on their day, somehow Mika was able to overcome the Mclaren's shortcoming and put it on pole or win the race. Mika was a real racer, who didn't mind going over the edge, pick up a little sand and put it on pole against all odds. I'm sorry, but MS and Kimi their driving skills were no match against him.

If Heidfeld and Massa can beat Kimi, then MS can probably beat Kimi. There is no contradiction I'm making. I'm pretty certain Alonso will beat MS easily. And Lewis probably too if Alonso can do it

I just wonder why there are so many people who blame Michael for winning races or the WDC in the best car.

Hm, maybe I missed a few races since 1980, but except 86 I`ve never seen someone winning the WDC with the "second best" car - and that was only due to luck and Prost`s consistency.
In 08 Hamilton had the best overall package, no technical DNF`s, good strategys, without doubt the best car in wet conditions and a weak teammate. Not such a big difference to Michaels title in 95. You are doing like Hamilton drove in an inferior car like Senna did in 93. He didnt.

A lot of people are praising Hamiltons win in Hungaroring and Singapur this year. In my opinion, it was clear that Hamilton would be the favorite in this races. His car was maybe the best on the Grid on that race weekends, but still some people claim that Hamilton won in a crap car.

Why should Hamilton be more talented then Michael? Because he finished with the same amount of points as his teammate, the double world champion? The Alonso we saw in 2007 wasn`t the best, he struggeled alot with his tires. If I remember it right, he even had to use the worse prime compound in Q3 a few times because nothing else worked.
But to me Alonso seemed to be the faster Mclaren Pilot in the races, didn`t he finished 10 times ahead of Hamilton? I wish he would have stayed in Mclaren for 08, that would have been really interesting.

I think that Hamilton is right now the best driver on the grid, but to say that he is more talented than a 7-times WDC is utter rubbish in my eyes.
A lot of people are overhyping the current drivers due to the fact, that there is much more media presence right now. Raikkonen, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Massa and Kubica aren`t new Sennas, Prosts, Schumaches, G.Villeneuves, Fangios or Chris Amons.

Please everyone, this thread is for the discussion of Schumacher to Brawn rumours, not past history.

Its all gone rather quiet

Let me try to revive this topic then...

The longer I think about it, the more I believe that Schumacher indeed will make his comeback with Mercedes.

Remember how Montezemolo was hoping to race a 3rd Ferrari in 2010, one that would be driven by Schumacher? Now, why would Montezemolo advocate that if the didn't know whether Schumi was willing to make a comeback at all? Maybe Montezemolo knew that Schumacher was willing to make a comeback and was trying very hard to make it at least happen in a Ferrari.
We know that Schumacher was really looking forward to his short come back, replacing Massa, and how disappointed he was when it fell trough. Furthermore we have the as-good-as confirmed talks with Mercedes people at Abu Dhabi, the fact that his friend Ross Brawn is at Mercedes....

It would be strange to see Schumacher drive for another team, after 15 years at Ferrari....

I think the stumbling block is the difference between running a 3rd car at certain races and taking part in a full season. I think I recall reading the 3rd car idea was only for certain races and not for the entire season.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure Brawn did offer Schumacher a drive and not just for this year but last year too, but it will all come down to if Schumacher wants to dedicate the time required to take part in a full season of races and testing.

We know that he misses F1 (his presence at grand prixs shows that), we know that he misses racing, but does he miss spending an entire year travelling the world and training?

In theory Schumacher can race either in Ferrari or in Mercedes. He is one of the very few who has this choice. Looking at it I wonder which one should appeal as a better option for Schumacher.

Schumacher is not a one who just enjoy racing in the formula one race, rather he motivate himself to win any formula one race which he might take part in. The question is if Ferrari allows this to happen and if Schumacher accepts the work that he has to do become the championship at the Mercedes. Schumacher do know all the preparations and pushes, for which I assume he will decline to do so for any new team.

the 3 year contract with ferrari is yet to be signed, that shouldn't be a problem, his obligations to shell on the other hand..

Would be great. We got a very interesting 2010 season then. Vettel, Webber, Lewis, Jenson, Alonso and MS all in good cars.

edit: I don't think it's that silly to see MS drive for Mercedes. He has driven for Mercedes before he went to F1 But I don't think he will go to Mercedes. He's tied with Ferrari at the moment, busy with the Ferrari sportscars?

Well the day a sponsor prevents a racing driver from driving is not a good day. I imagine they'd release him if they really had to.

The would be a big IF. Anyway, I would give him a year without saying anything negative if he didn't come up to speed right away.

Schumacher - "Anything can happen"

That's blatant code for I'm not telling you yet. Ferrari and Shell I can guarantee have had a second look at the fine print.

ferrari and shell are in a difficult position if he wants to race again..because they can't offer him a drive so all they can do is release him..

If Kimi don't get Merc seat 2010, then I hope Michael will.

The speculaton only continues after some recent words by Schumi


http://www.crash.net/f1/news/155042/1/mich...eturn_fire.html







http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...p?news_id=19903


Both Webe Wili and Michael have said the neck is fine, so Schumi isn't injured no more.
Being the best f1 driver again at race of champions and the brazil kart race again, and a decent showing in Las Vagas kart, the mercedes speculation, neck inury healing,
it all points to some sort of reawakening of the man who seemed retired and gone after 2006, the latter end of 2009 is all about Schumacher, he stole August with his comeback accouncement, and now he's taking over early winter with Mercedes, while being competitive in kart races and race of champions with younger guys, it's kinda like a mini come back already in terms of seeing his hungar for competition, like he's been hiding all year, and puff surprises everyone by trying to come back, and now leaving doors open that previously looked shut and locked for good.

I remember a quote by Michael in 2006
"Once your out, your out for good."

He hasn't seem to be using that saying in the past year.



http://www.examiner.com/x-4026-Minneapolis...-at-Jerez-Spain





Who knows

I have a feeling Schumacher will make a comeback. His recent remarks and general enthusiasm point in that direction. Logic that says otherwise is flawed, because it doesn't take into account his feelings. And all that matters to a man with all the money in the world is how he feels and how much fun he is having. And it seems like Schumacher is ready to have some fun F1 style!

To all those that think he won't cut it: Schumacher will be fast enough in his 50's never mind now. I think that he might mellow out enough to cut out some of his over-zealous and ill-advised maneouvres, which may offset him losing a tenth or two in outright speed. But his speed won't be a problem, I would put all my money on that!

People with short memories look to 2005/2006 as some sort of decline for Schumacher, but really the problems Ferrari had were more of a technical nature, and the tyre equation made things impossible to judge. Basically you had to drive the Bridgestones a totally different way than the Michelins, you could see it in the way the Michelin guys could attack a slow/mid speed corner, and contrast that with the ginger approach of a Bridgestone runner. Then you look at the high speed bits, and the Bridgestones had better stability. Bottom line, in 2007, the differences were partially exposed by Alonso's and Raikkonen's early season struggles. Even now Kimi for example does not drive the same way he could on the Michelin tyre. So under certain circumstances, the Bridgestone runners looked incapacitated, at other times they seemed to have an edge. Schumacher's performances, taken into context, were more indicative of the relative differences of the tyres at each venue. There were tracks he couldn't do much, others where he was unbeatable. I certainly didn't see any wobble in his ability to drive though. He quit because he was tired, it's really quite understandable. He won 7 races in 2006, who has won that many in a year since?

More than anything, he probably thinks that he overestimated the ability of the field when he left. Other than Lewis and Vettel, what has anybody else really proved other than they are pretty good, but not exceptional? Alonso was neutralized at McLaren(or is that neutered?) and hasn't had the car since, and Kimi's stock has dropped. Kubica is good but not yet great, Button the same, Webber is just too damned unlucky to matter, Barrichello will always be slower, Rosberg is fine but not a world beater, who else is there?

I think it would be ideal if he came back for 2 years and had an option for a 3rd. That would suit me just fine, and I don't care what team he drives for. I will take issue though if he does something stupid a la Monaco 06. In that case he needn't bother.


Cooper

What do you mean Alonso was neutralized by mclaren?
He drove great and only lost the world title by 1 point.
Out of all the drivers you listed he is the only one who proved he can beat Schumacher head to head, but you dont even list him and list vettel and Hamilton only?
Vettel could not even beat button head to head
Only driver Michael overestimated is Kimi, the guy he ran from in 2006. If he knew he was only as fast as massa he would have stayed for sure, and it would have boosted his reputation a lot.

I don't think Schumacher over estimated anybody in his life. He has respect for a few drivers of the current crop including Vettel, Button, Massa and Lewis.
He most likely respects Alonso too, but I have never heard him say so, so can't comment

only as fast as is bloody damn fast ;)
he didn't run away from anybody.

He was always very respectful about Alonso too. Even when Alonso wasn't about him....

Can you name one (besides Jos the Boss and Jean Alesi and Rolf ehm .. I mean Ralf S.) driver who actually DID had and or showed RESPECT to Schumacher ? Hahahaha, ... no you can't right? ... hahaha, weird .. how could this be? hahahaha

And you arrive at that conclusion how, exactly?

The same can be said for his winning streak, which was massively aided by having Bridgestone develop solely for Ferrari, you can't have it both ways. The 2006 Ferrari looked very evenly matched with the Renault over the course of the season, slightly inferior in the early stages and slightly superior in the latter - but I think Alonso struck a real blow at Suzuka in 2005, passing Schumacher on the outside of 130R, a move which tempted disaster against one of the dirtiest drivers in the sport's history, at that point Schumacher must have known he'd met someone with a rage to win equal to his own. I don't for a minute believe we'll see Schumacher back in F1, he's been beaten fair and square by Alonso and would risk something even worse at the hands of Hamilton. When he was at his peak he had everything going for him: a dream engineering team, the richest in F1, with the ear of the governing and promotional bodies - were he to return he'd be past his prime with none of those advantages, I can't see it happening no matter how tempted he might be.

You gotta love it when fans or antis of a driver project their own thoughts onto him, and make conclusions on what he might have thought, felt, believed.

For all your bluster, you know I'm right!

I'm taking that to mean 'no' then...

"McLaren's worst ever car"

"Massa only had a bump on the chin"

[not actual quotes, just making the point]

nope, only you think that

Your interpretation is fanciful at best, but you are entitled to it. But how does this in any way relate to what I said? My point was that Schumacher did not really exhibit a drop-off in speed in 2005/2006. If he drove supercars previously or was the shitiest driver of all time with the greatest amount of luck is irrelevant to the argument.

I would pay a lot of money to see Schumacher up against Alonso at Ferrari, but I am sure those that dislike Michael would just assume that whenever he outperformed Fernando it was Ferrari favouritism, so as far as anything being resolved on this bb, that's a pipe dream. Anyway, I doubt Schumacher would want to put in the energy to beat Alonso, it would take too much, and he probably doesn't want to work that hard anymore. As far as anyone beating anyone else fair and square, if you are not driving the same car, it's always apples and oranges. But fans will of course always come up with the "correct" relative metric


Cooper

On that we agree. For all the talk of Schumacher returning, indeed for all his undoubted desire to return, I can't see him matching the commitment he gave to the sport before - or enjoying the advantages (technical and otherwise) that he had with Ferrari; for those reasons we won't see him return to the sport. Schumacher fans can dream, but it's not happening.

just a little interesting thing to add to this. i work for a large elctronics firm in the UK who supply several of the F1 teams, and learned today during a conversation with one of the purchasers for the merc/brawn team that michael recently visited the factory for a look around. may be something or nothing, we shall see.

Yes because James Allen really has any right to criticize any other sporting commentator. This is the guy that publicly declared that Kubica and Rosberg take each other out so that Hamilton could win the title in 07 and "Kimi deserves a championship, just not this one"

He's a moron and its comments like that, that cost him a job at the BBC.

Maybe he doesn't want to come back, he was there just to sabotage Kimi's Merc contract.

strong point actually.........

And he succeeded! Again! He's a genius, isn't he?

good news, keep us informed

Very, very interesting.

Michael knows F1 inside out. Why else would he visit a factory unless he is interested in some sort of Merc option?
Added to the fact he is one of the all-time greatest F1 drivers, he is also rumoured to be an excellent team manager which contributed to his success.

According to autosport, Kimi is out of the picture as in the next few hours his WRC deal is going to be confirmed.

Who is Mercedes going to hire then? The best option is MS without a doubt, they need him, I don't have faith in Nico, he's unproven. But I'm expecting Nick heidfeld to be signed to be honest though

Visiting old friends? As well as working with Ross Brawn for a long time, he drove for Merc in sports cars years ago.

MS isn't and never has been an option. It will proberly be Heidfeld since he has said it would be a dream to drive for Mercedes.

Yes, I am aware of the history, but I cannot help thinking ther emay be more to it than that. Especially given the timing.

If Merc were seriously considering Kimi they would certainly want Michael more so. He has so much more to bring them.

Given Kimi in rally and Renault looking to quit, I'd say Kubica in fact has shot up the probability list.

If the largest announcement to come from this winter is MS returning to racing with Merc...

There is going to be some SERIOUS humble pie eating going on here.....



Can we put an order ino the bakery to be on standby.... !