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Tolyngee
Hmmm, if MS is indeed returning, and not to Ferrari (so a different challenge...), I might have to get cable again, so I can watch the races live...

MB having their own team does indeed seem the perfect set of circumstances for MS to return... Right where he should have been long ago...
Johny Bravo
QUOTE (klover @ Dec 13 2009, 22:21) *
No, he should so that you and the others who expected miracles from him this summer before he even turned a wheel (an he never did as he wisely gave up after realizing he would be made to look like a fool) can enjoy a full 2010 of misery.


Where actually have I expected miracles from him? Please don't put your obsession in my or other's mouth.
Menace
QUOTE (Johny Bravo @ Dec 13 2009, 14:00) *
Where actually have I expected miracles from him? Please don't put your obsession in my or other's mouth.


Ewww.... lol.gif
PaulD.
New post from J. Allen... Schumacher - It's the moment of Truth

QUOTE
Ever since Jenson Button made the dramatic decision to quit Brawn Mercedes and move to McLaren, Ross Brawn and his team have been looking for a response.

There is an old saying, “In F1 you are either taking pain or giving it,” and when Brawn pinched Mercedes, McLaren responded vigorously, by seducing their champion driver. He was ripe for it, as Brawn was not giving him what he wanted, having lost a bit of faith in the driver after his mid season wobbles.

One of the Brawn management figures said to me, “As one door closes, another won opens up,” and this is what has led to the evaluation of drafting in Michael Schumacher. It involved Schumacher testing his fitness and no doubt lengthy discussions with Ross Brawn; between these men there are no secrets.

This will not hit McLaren where it hurts, this is about saving face for Mercedes.

Schumacher must know that and it is odd in many ways that a seven times world champion is prepared to offer himself up to be played in that way. Schumacher always set the agenda in his career, he made people bend to his will.

The Button door had to close before the Schumacher door opened up.


He does have a point here I'd say...
JarnoA
QUOTE (lafitek @ Dec 13 2009, 20:17) *
and he will be beaten by rosberg for sure smile.gif


If Micky gets beaten by Rosberg, his reputation would be in tatters. Of course it would never happen.

The alternative to MS seems to be quick nick. In team mate comparisons, Nick beat Webber, who beat Rosberg.

So, if Rosberg beat MS, then Nick would have been the better choice.

undersquare
QUOTE (PaulD. @ Dec 13 2009, 22:36) *
New post from J. Allen... Schumacher - It's the moment of Truth


Thanks. So Allen's take is that Willi has released the story through Bild to see if Michael's personal sponsors will make a fuss over the change of car brand.
Nuvol
moron strikes back again. stoned.gif
rog
QUOTE (JarnoA @ Dec 13 2009, 23:44) *
If Micky gets beaten by Rosberg, his reputation would be in tatters. Of course it would never happen.

The alternative to MS seems to be quick nick. In team mate comparisons, Nick beat Webber, who beat Rosberg.

So, if Rosberg beat MS, then Nick would have been the better choice.



Bullshit. That was Nicos first F1 season, he improved a lot during the last years.
Captain Tightpants
QUOTE (undersquare @ Dec 14 2009, 09:47) *
Thanks. So Allen's take is that Willi has released the story through Bild to see if Michael's personal sponsors will make a fuss over the change of car brand.

That makes sense.

QUOTE (Nuvol @ Dec 14 2009, 09:55) *
moron strikes back again. stoned.gif

Maybe no - Allen was terrible as a commentator, but as a print journalist, he's actually pretty good. I suppose it is because he has time to think about what he wants to say in advance, rather than having to do it on the fly as he did in the commentary box.
beancounter
I'm very disappointed to hear Button's comments about Schumacher risking his 'reputation' by coming back to F1. Utterly disappointed to hear F1's least skilled champion view F1 as a trapeze act where you try to tiptoe along creating some sort of 'image' for yourself in the media and then leave when that 'image' is at it's peak. You watch every step you make and every comment is meant to create an image in people's heads. I'm a celebrity! Let's hope I don't crash trying to overtake this bloke. What will people think of me then!?

Why should a racer care what the media thinks of him? Why should it matter to him? Seriously? What is this tangible benefit Button gets from the media, a benefit so powerful it would make him not do what he loves?

Schumacher wants to race. He's a racer. So if he still wants to race and has the possibility, why refuse the chance just because some random dude might not have such a high opinion of him anymore? What the hell does it matter? Why live your life worrying what other people will think of you? confused.gif That is what I hate in drivers like Button, Massa and the rest of the mediawhore muppets. They're like politicians, whom I view as the scum of the earth.

Button's comments of carefully tiptoeing to grave with the results you have thus far gained speaks volumes when put in conjunction with his willingness to race last season after gaining a lead in the WDC. He is not a racer.
Sausage
Allan overanalyzes things sooo frickin much. And about reputations I don't think he has to worry at all or does, even if he goes q 0-18 to rosberg he will still be the legend years on. Some people said the same about Armstrong, like if he didn't win the Tour his image would be diminished or so, but that's nonsense.

People realize persons get older and everybody was just cool with it to see him riding the bike hard again 3 weeks. Schu will be the same, even his haters will love him back just for the sake of it cause face it he's a living legend
Mr M0by
If it came down to it, I guess I'm a Schumacher fan first and foremost. I started following F1 in 1991 and I've been a fan of his all along the way. I'd consider myself an avid Ferrari fan too, though the affection I had for them (due to Berger & Alesi etc) only truly strengthened when Michael went there. I support them, their drivers, buy a ton of merchandise & get to one race abroad a season to cheer them on if I can, Monza last year (okay i bought the tickets as soon as the Schuey comeback was announced!) & Valencia in 08 & Monza in 07 the more recent ones. That said, if Michael is back racing next year I'll be supporting:

1) Schumacher
2) Ferrari/Massa/Alonso














3) Vettel

In that order. smile.gif
Talisker
One factor to consider when thinking about how well MS might go, is that he'd be coming back with nothing to prove, and presumably quite relaxed. That is exactly when he puts in the best performances. His last race in Brazil, for example. I always thought his biggest flaw was how he reacted when he's under extreme pressure.
se7en_24
QUOTE (beancounter @ Dec 13 2009, 23:23) *
Button's comments of carefully tiptoeing to grave with the results you have thus far gained speaks volumes when put in conjunction with his willingness to race last season after gaining a lead in the WDC. He is not a racer.

Not a racer? I think you'll find it was qualifying that was the problem later in the season for him. In the races he qualified behind he normally caught Rubens and overtook people on the way to doing that.

Button probably did more 'racing' than anyone else on the grid due to not getting his tyres working in quali.
BiH
QUOTE (Talisker @ Dec 13 2009, 19:40) *
One factor to consider when thinking about how well MS might go, is that he'd be coming back with nothing to prove, and presumably quite relaxed. That is exactly when he puts in the best performances. His last race in Brazil, for example. I always thought his biggest flaw was how he reacted when he's under extreme pressure.



the only flaw with schumacher is that he will win at all costs and that is why he is a sore loser. so if he comes back he will be taking it extremely seriously to prove to everyone.
Johny Bravo
QUOTE (Nuvol @ Dec 13 2009, 23:55) *
moron strikes back again. stoned.gif


This idiot Allen is now in panic mode.

He predicted that the comeback won't happen. Now it looks more and more likely to become real so he'll might need to eat his words.

Now he tries to make up negative explanations as to why it still would happen. Like this "Mercedes is saving face" bullsh!t. Yepp, MB surely are deeply mourning the loss of Jenson Button so they are desperately trying to hire the most successful driver ever. A very likely scenario.

A bit more likely is that Mclaren - after Mercedes has thrown'em out in the window as they saw a 1 year old team more fit to compete with in F1- is saving face by acquiring Button (who incidentally was also dumped by Mercedes).
Johny Bravo
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 14 2009, 00:14) *
I suppose it is because he has time to think about what he wants to say in advance, rather than having to do it on the fly as he did in the commentary box.


He could use a bit more time apparently.
tkulla
I think this is a hugely risky move by Schumacher if he does it. The one problem I've always had with him is that he's had #1 status in his teams, so we never really got to see just how good he was. I suspect he was very, very good, but that makes it even worse that he was so insecure that he couldn't risk having his teammates start on even footing. That said, the strategy worked and his statistics and records will likely never be surpassed.

If he comes back and is beaten easily by Rosberg, that little tiny doubt that I have will grow, and it just might make me think that Schumacher's greatest skills were in the team politics arena and not the out on the racetrack.
Johny Bravo
QUOTE (tkulla @ Dec 14 2009, 01:55) *
If he comes back and is beaten easily by Rosberg, that little tiny doubt that I have will grow, and it just might make me think that Schumacher's greatest skills were in the team politics arena and not the out on the racetrack.


If You really think one can get 91 GP wins based mainly on team politics You have either not watched a single F1 race before 2007 or haven't watched a race at all. But why bother commenting on F1 then?...
ZZMS
QUOTE (tkulla @ Dec 13 2009, 16:55) *
The one problem I've always had with him is that he's had #1 status in his teams, so we never really got to see just how good he was.


I'm very sorry that you couldn't see how good he really was (is!) but please do not think the rest of F1 followers are blind too.
Mungo Fangio of the Year
QUOTE (ZZMS @ Dec 14 2009, 03:12) *
I'm very sorry that you couldn't see how good he really was (is!) but please do not think the rest of F1 followers are blind too.



I think everybody saw he is great, absolutely one of best, but with equal team mate we would have seen even better.
Schuting Star
QUOTE (Mungo Fangio of the Year @ Dec 14 2009, 03:18) *
I think everybody saw he is great, absolutely one of best, but with equal team mate we would have seen even better.

If there was an equal to be had kiss.gif
Mungo Fangio of the Year
QUOTE (Schuting Star @ Dec 14 2009, 03:20) *
If there was an equal to be had kiss.gif


Does't need to be equal in abilities, just equal in terms of team support.
Ian G
I know i'm not telling you guys anything but it was reported on Sydney Radio this morning that Schumacher will be announcing in the New Year that he is joining,possibly as a Driver, the Merc. F1 Team pending a release from Ferrari.
The Journo. has obviously got the Info. from a European Wire Service/Website but it was a very confidently written grab....Time will tell!

George Costanza
I think we'll know by Christmas. I hope. The suspense is getting to me a bit.

Imagine if Mercedes produces a winning car, and Schu is leading the WDC.... It would and can be the greatest racing story since Fangio's 1957 German Grand Prix, and Schu wins the title in a Mercedes, first time since Fangio in 1955 for Mercedes... He will be 41 in January 3 2010... and, Fangio won all his titles in his 40s. Fangio won his first title at age of 40. IF, I say this with a huge, huge IF, Schu can find some of the vintage quality that he is known for, (late 1990s with Ferrari) then is quite fast, and on pace.... Alain Prost won his last title at 38, Nigel Mansell won it at 39 (yes they had oustanding cars; but the Brawn was quite unbelieveable at the start of 2009, and you can bet that Mercedes is keen to keep that happening). To comeback and win? I believe he can do it.

What a epic and stunning thing this can be.... All is moot until he agrees with Mercedes.


Come on Schu, show Ferrari and Alonso what they are missing with at Mercedes/Brawn. How foolish will Ferrari look like if Brawn and Schu beat Alonso and Ferrari.

Luca will be very worried if that happens, he will be crapping himself.....
primer
QUOTE (James Allen)
There is an old saying, “In F1 you are either taking pain or giving it,”


No there isn't.
But it is an old fact: James Allen is a cock.
tkulla
QUOTE (Johny Bravo @ Dec 14 2009, 01:08) *
If You really think one can get 91 GP wins based mainly on team politics You have either not watched a single F1 race before 2007 or haven't watched a race at all. But why bother commenting on F1 then?...


Go back and re-read my post, but without reading into it so much. I'm not attacking Schumacher. He's obviously an all-time great. But the reality is that he didn't face the best of his generation head-to-head, unlike the champions before him and since. So in my mind, I still have questions as to just how great he was. Personally I place him in the league of Prost and Senna, which is high praise indeed. But because of his team building (the best ever at this) and control he never had to face a teammate on equal terms. This leaves a doubt to me about his dominance - mainly because it shows a certain level of insecurity from the man. Unnecessary insecurity, most likely.

And for the record, I've been watching F1 since 1989 and haven't missed a race since then. So I watched the entire Schumacher era.

And I stand by my statement - this is risky for Schumacher if he does it. He and I are about the same age, and age dulls reactions around 40 just a bit. Even an athlete as well-conditioned as MS can't expect to stay at such a high level forever (think Michael Jordan's comeback to the NBA). All F1 drivers have phenomenal reactions and sensitivity. The slightest reduction in that ability and it will be hugely obvious on the track. And since F1 fans and media have very short memories the danger is that his achievements will be viewed just a little bit differently if he fails.

George Costanza
QUOTE (tkulla @ Dec 13 2009, 21:52) *
Go back and re-read my post, but without reading into it so much. I'm not attacking Schumacher. He's obviously an all-time great. But the reality is that he didn't face the best of his generation head-to-head, unlike the champions before him and since. So in my mind, I still have questions as to just how great he was. Personally I place him in the league of Prost and Senna, which is high praise indeed. But because of his team building (the best ever at this) and control he never had to face a teammate on equal terms. This leaves a doubt to me about his dominance - mainly because it shows a certain level of insecurity from the man. Unnecessary insecurity, most likely.

And for the record, I've been watching F1 since 1989 and haven't missed a race since then. So I watched the entire Schumacher era.

And I stand by my statement - this is risky for Schumacher if he does it. He and I are about the same age, and age dulls reactions around 40 just a bit. Even an athlete as well-conditioned as MS can't expect to stay at such a high level forever (think Michael Jordan's comeback to the NBA). All F1 drivers have phenomenal reactions and sensitivity. The slightest reduction in that ability and it will be hugely obvious on the track. And since F1 fans and media have very short memories the danger is that his achievements will be viewed just a little bit differently if he fails.



I think Juan Manuel Fangio would disagree with your last statement..... at age 46, he drove his greatest race of all time, the 1957 German GP. And the cars back then were a hell of a lot harder to drive.... Just ask Sir Stirling Moss.

When you hit your 50s, however, that's when your reactions start to truly slow down.
Johny Bravo
QUOTE (Mungo Fangio of the Year @ Dec 14 2009, 02:24) *
Does't need to be equal in abilities, just equal in terms of team support.


Though having equal team support doesn't guarantee one can equally exploit it. I mean, one might get the same car but could be still just plain slow compared to his/her teammate. But then one'd obviously cry for equal terms of team support.

Anyways, I reckon MS did not just defeat his teammate - who drove a 4cylinder, 46BHP FIAT Panda on worn 4 season tyres, with both hands tied back, and no lunch since race week Tuesdays - 91 times (or 7 times during whole seasons) but also had the upperhand on 18-22 (depending grid lengths) other guys as well.
Who weren't actually contractually obliged to drive slower than him...
bobqzzi
QUOTE (George Costanza @ Dec 14 2009, 03:55) *
snip And the cars back then were a hell of a lot harder to drive.... Just ask Sir Stirling Moss.

snip


Have to disagree here. No doubt the cars were ill handling compared to today, but they also had much less power and cornered and braked at a fraction of the G's of todays cars. I magine the nastiest rollercoaster turn you've ever experienced- no imagine trying to precisely guide a car while experiencing those forces in several directions.

That said, I think Michael will be just fine
WebBerK
QUOTE (gio66 @ Dec 13 2009, 10:13) *
I think Schumacher could sing

Like a king without a castle
Like a queen without a throne
I'm an early morning lover
And I must be moving on

And I will go on shining
Shining like brand new
I'll never look behind me
My troubles will be few.


Sounds like the Kimi's song. tongue.gif
sephiroth
QUOTE
Maybe no - Allen was terrible as a commentator, but as a print journalist, he's actually pretty good. I suppose it is because he has time to think about what he wants to say in advance, rather than having to do it on the fly as he did in the commentary box.


QUOTE
“As one door closes, another won opens up,”


Learning english will be a good first step for Allen.
WebBerK
QUOTE (undersquare @ Dec 13 2009, 20:47) *
Thanks. So Allen's take is that Willi has released the story through Bild to see if Michael's personal sponsors will make a fuss over the change of car brand.

So Willi Wonka Weber wants to know if Shell objects Schumy moving to Mobil1 confused.gif

Shell Shock eek.gif
J2NH
QUOTE (tkulla @ Dec 14 2009, 02:52) *
And I stand by my statement - this is risky for Schumacher if he does it. He and I are about the same age, and age dulls reactions around 40 just a bit. Even an athlete as well-conditioned as MS can't expect to stay at such a high level forever (think Michael Jordan's comeback to the NBA). All F1 drivers have phenomenal reactions and sensitivity. The slightest reduction in that ability and it will be hugely obvious on the track. And since F1 fans and media have very short memories the danger is that his achievements will be viewed just a little bit differently if he fails.


Crap, better tell all the fighter jocks over 40 to turn in their wings. I won't even get into the reaction time and g forces. As for Schumacher, the guy has not exactly treated his "retirement" in the normal manner. He has not been on the porch watching the world go by, he has been racing bikes for goodness sakes. IF he comes back he will be in the shape of his life and ready for the challenge. When in his career, did he ever underestimate the challenge?

Risky? Seriously, he is a 7X world champion and nothing will change that. IF he comes back, and if he fails, it will be oh well he's been out for a while. But what is really risky, and not to Schumacher, is what happens if he comes back and succeeds? Be kind of rough on the rest of the grid wouldn't you think?
Johny Bravo
QUOTE (WebBerK @ Dec 14 2009, 04:35) *
So Willi Wonka Weber wants to know if Shell objects Schumy moving to Mobil1 confused.gif

Shell Shock eek.gif


They've surely forgot about that. Now You've outfoxed'em! up.gif
Galko877
QUOTE (tkulla @ Dec 14 2009, 03:55) *
If he comes back and is beaten easily by Rosberg, that little tiny doubt that I have will grow, and it just might make me think that Schumacher's greatest skills were in the team politics arena and not the out on the racetrack.


The haters/doubters should actually be happy about his comeback. He is taking a big risk and at 41 he is probably more vulnerable than ever. So if he gets beaten by youngsters it will give the haters/doubters at least an excuse to question his past achievments too. That's what they want to do, don't they? rolleyes.gif

I personally think he has nothing to prove any more and no matter how he performs that won't diminish his past achievements. In worst case he is not as good at 41 as he used to be, so what? Did you see Mika's lap times when he tested the McLaren after a couple of years in retirement? So it will be a big challenge for Michael too. But I love it.
DaleCooper
QUOTE (WebBerK @ Dec 14 2009, 04:23) *
Sounds like the Kimi's song. tongue.gif



Kimi's but a tramp. Michael, now he's a SUPER.... ! smoking.gif


Cooper
peroa
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Dec 14 2009, 09:03) *
The haters/doubters should actually be happy about his comeback. He is taking a big risk and at 41 he is probably more vulnerable than ever. So if he gets beaten by youngsters it will give the haters/doubters at least an excuse to question his past achievments too. That's what they want to do, don't they? rolleyes.gif

I personally think he has nothing to prove any more and no matter how he performs that won't diminish his past achievements. In worst case he is not as good at 41 as he used to be, so what? Did you see Mika's lap times when he tested the McLaren after a couple of years in retirement? So it will be a big challenge for Michael too. But I love it.




Yeeeeeeeeeeeeessss!!!
smoking.gif
Galko877
Michael already drives a Mercedes (pic from yesterday): http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/motorsport/f...au-besiegt.html
peroa
lol, he got beaten by a girl ...
undersquare
Well if Michael does make a comeback I'll be quite impressed. He'd only do it for the love of racing, and every chance he'll be beaten, so it'll be quite a classy thing to do.

Just hope I like him a bit more this time round, last time F1 was hugely improved for me when he retired. Maybe with a bit less intensity he will be more likeable.
WorldChampion
I only sterted to like him in 2006, too bad

I want him back. And Kimi left huge void, it needs to be filled
Arion
I don't want a likeable Schumacher, I want the "win at all cost" Schumacher. If he makes a come back, I think he means business, it's not just for fun. And I want to see him find out he's way past it tongue.gif
Frans
QUOTE
lol, he got beaten by a girl ...


A Dutch gorl, to be precise .......... lol.gif
slideways
I want a likable, open Schumacher who comes back and wins anyway.

Some of the interviews where he's opened up have shown a supremely nice guy.

Who knows, maybe a new team and a return could allow him to be a different person and not bottle all of that up like he did at the red team.
undersquare
QUOTE (slideways @ Dec 14 2009, 09:46) *
I want a likable, open Schumacher who comes back and wins anyway.

Some of the interviews where he's opened up have shown a supremely nice guy.

Who knows, maybe a new team and a return could allow him to be a different person and not bottle all of that up like he did at the red team.


Yeah, all the people who actually know him like him. For me some of it was that he was part of the dishonest FIA-Ferrari thing that made the whole competition biased and unfair - hoping that's gone with Max but we'll have to see. Anyway with MS at Mercedes Todt will be pulled both ways lol.gif .
Spa95
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Dec 14 2009, 10:06) *
Michael already drives a Mercedes (pic from yesterday): http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/motorsport/f...au-besiegt.html

I find it curious that he would arrive there in a Mercedes already; it's still 2009 after all! That and the latest James Allen blog made me wonder somewhat....
Galko877
QUOTE (Spa95 @ Dec 14 2009, 11:57) *
I find it curious that he would arrive there in a Mercedes already; it's still 2009 after all! That and the latest James Allen blog made me wonder somewhat....



Wonder about what?
Spa95
What James Allen said, maybe it's done to spark some kind of reaction (or fait accompli as he put it) by Ferrari or his existing sponsors.
Galko877
QUOTE (Spa95 @ Dec 14 2009, 13:04) *
What James Allen said, maybe it's done to spark some kind of reaction by Ferrari or his existing sponsors.


And what kind of reaction it would be? He was paid handsomly by Ferrari and those sponsors so far, so I doubt it's about being unsatisfied with the money.

I think he just wants to race: as simple as that. But people always want to see something else behind everything.

Ferrari has always treated him well and I'm sure he is grateful for that for ever. But there's one thing that Ferrari can't give him right now: a race seat. They tried (Luca's three car proposal), but they can't. So this is Michael's only choice if he wants to race. And apparently he wants very much.

As for his sponsors, I think only Shell is a problem as they are contratced to Ferrari too. But Michael can take all other personal sponsors to Mercedes (Deutsche Vermögensberatung (insurance company), Rosbacher (mineral water), Omega (watches)) - I don't see a conflict of interest there.
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