Hi, 1st post for me.
I'm trying to settle a discussion on how F1 car numbering works.
Could some kind soul please help, or maybe point me in the direction of the relevent information?

Thanks in advance,
Andy.

It's actually usually simple.

#1 goes to the world driver champion. #2 to his team-mate. Then from #3 onwards it's decided by the constructors championship places, with the exception being #13 which isn't used. Teams can assign their two numbers to their two drivers on whichever order they want. And that's it.

The last two years we did have odd situations with McLaren being given #22 and #23 in 2008 - but that was because they were disqualified from the 2007 championship; and Brawn being given #22 and #23 in 2009 - because they were deemed to be a new team so didn't inherit Honda's 2008 championship standings. Now the thing I'm curious about, is in which order will the numbers be given to the new teams this year!

Thanks very much for your help.
Andy.

I think its stupid how the number 13 isn't used, what are they men, or scared little superstitious boys?

There are also a few other things to consider. If the reigning champion isn't taking part in a season, the reigning constructor's champion takes numbers 0 and 2.

As for the new teams, I see there being three different ways we could see them numbered...
-The first three in the order they submitted their entries, with Lotus being the fourth team since they were accepted later.
-The first three in alphabetical order, with Lotus being fourth again...
-Alphabetical order for all four teams.

I believe that there wont be any 'missing' numbers this year, other than 13, since no team will have a reason to complain about a last minute number change like Force India did last year. Teams who would have had numebrs higher than Toyota and BMW will be shuffled up to fill the gaps, and if Qadbak Sauber do get onto the grid, then they will join the back of the queue in the first two scenarios.


Last year, 18 & 19 were missing since Honda had those numbers and withdrew. The FIA tried to shuffle Force India up to those numbers, but they'd already ordered their merchandise with 20 & 21 on, so it didn't happen.

Indeed. McLaren 1 & 2. Red Bull 3 & 4. I'm assuming Mercedes will take the very last numbers, being the last 'new' team in.

If Button goes to McLaren, Mercedes will get 3 & 4.

The Brawn/Honda issue was after the FIA deadline, so they got the last numbers of the grid. For example, Honda got #14 and #15 in 2006 when Honda took over BAR.

No, MGP 3 and 4, RBR 5 and 6 etc.

Oh right. Bugger me. Red Bull won't be happy.

Why would they care?

Numbers are status, aren't they? Do they also not dictate garage positions? (Not that that's a massive thing either). I dunno if I worked hard for a 3 4 and got dealt a 5 6 i'd be a little (just a little mind) peeved.

Apart from having No ONE in your car, nothing else matters... number 3 or number 17... all the same

not forgetting you can sometimes end up with 0 on your car if the previous world champ decides to do something like take a sabbatical or sod off to indycar. i think hill had 0 on his car in '94 for this reason?

on another note i used to work for an airline, and some people didn't want to sit in row 13 in case something happened to them....despite the fact that all the rows are part of the same plane. i guess lucky number 7 used to cancel it out :-p

Lotus will receive the first two numbers after the three original teams.


They do, but since the pit lane is the same length for everyone, it's not really that big of a deal. The only people the get an advantage is the team carrying the 1 and the 2 because the space immedaitely before them will always be clear.

No, pit positions are handed out according to WCC results and so is money.

Are you sure about the pit positions?

What I really wanna know is that who will be #27? Either a Lotus or Quadback driver?

And 27 and 28 won't be in the same team? That's a crime!

In the early 90s, drivers seemed to keep winning the championship with Williams and then retiring the next year, Damon Hill ended up with the number 0 on his car twice, in 1993 and in 1994 after Nigel Mansell and Alain Prost retired. I read an F1 book once that refered to him as the "zero hero".

Isn't that on WCC only?

So McLaren will be 3rd in the pitlane still not 1st?

I thought it was constructor's position that dictated position - thus why Ferrari got the #1 garage not McLaren last year.

There is advantage in having the first garage, since you can choose which end you want to be - also sometimes some garages are larger than others, usually skewed towards one end or the other.

car numbers are really fading out of existance these days...they're so small on the cars, whenever stop and go's are put up on the screen i can never tell which car it is :-p. these days you its really the drivers helmet.

Reasonably certain. The incumbent World Champion an his/her team always gets the first pit box. And the team with the last numbers on the grid always gets the last pit box. I just assumed everyone in between filled in by order of their numbers. That was part of the problem with Jaime Alguersuari's pit stop in Abu Dhabi: Toro Rosso had the 11 and 12 while Red Bull had the 14 and 15, so they were right next to one another. Alguersuari was expecting his pit crew to be ready, but they weren't. Yet when he came in, he saw purple-clad mechanics standing by, which was exactly what he expected to see ...

In Monaco it used to be that the better placed teams got permanent spots in the pitlane whilst worse teams had to vacate the premises when practice/qualy was over. Now they have more room, I guess

But teams in the middle aren't really under question, are they. Were talking about the first two teams. What about this:








These days? It's been like this for the last 15 years or more.

Your wrong. The pits are allocated on WCC place not WDC.

You are absolutely correct, Jody Scheckter also drove 0 in '73 for McLaren at the American and Canadian GP's whilst Emerson Fittipaldi was recovering from injury.

Pit garages are based on WCC standing, not WDC standing. As has been said, Ferrari had the #1 pit garage in 2009 because they won the WCC in 2008. The second team gets the second garage etc.

At some tracks there used to be a difference in size/quality between the garages. BAR even had to use a area outside of the pit garages in their first season when they were in Monaco as there wasn't even a garage for them in the pit lane back then.

They have abandoned the # 0 now(?).

I think Damon Hill was the last to drive with #0. Neither Ferrari, Renault or McLaren have had #0 after they lost their WDC driver in recent years.

In 2007, McLaren had #1 and #2 while Renault ran with #3 and #4.
The 2006 WDC was Alonso and he carried the #1 over to McLaren for 2007.
The 2006 WCC was won by Renault with Ferrari second.

It should be said that F1 haven't had a WDC retiring immediately after winning the WDC, so I'm not 100% sure what would happen if that situation should arise. But I think that the WDC's team keeps the #1 (so should Button retire - Brawn would have #1 and #2).

And at the 1985 European Grand Prix, John Watson drove with number 1, despite not being the champion.

No, because the champion went to another team and took the number one. The zero is given to the WCC team if the previous year's WDC is not competing. If Button was to give up on F1 now, Mercedes would get 0 and 2 for next year.

You are wrong. Please read the thread again. #0 comes to play when the WDC leaves F1 not the team - this hasn't happened since 1994.

Zero is fine to use, but they could also start from 2.

Please read my post again

As well as the previous season's WCC the team at the other end of the pit lane can also have a slight advantage... if the WCC team get a direct path into their pit box the team at the other end get a direct path out of theirs.

There's nothing to say that they wouldn't. Last time they used car 0, we were on the old system where teams used to keep their numbers (unless they carried the champion driver in which case they'd swap numbers with the previous champion driver team - IE, when Prost went to Ferrari he took the 1 and 2 and McLaren took Ferrari's 27 and 28).

I have no idea whether they'd use car 0 under the current system.

Not sure about that; the number zero system is better.

Pop quiz, hot shots: without looking it up, who was the last non-reigning champion to have the number 1?

I think the current system was in use in 1994.

I was under the impression that it was John Watson, but I might be wrong.

Hamilton at Abu Dhabi?

You edited your post after my post AND you are still wrong.

No. Since 1996.

Watson.

Isn't Button an official champion starting from the official ceremony? Until that time he is unofficial!?

As constructors champions Brawn GP would have had the first pit stall. Will they still have the first pit stall now that they are Mercedes GP?

Yep, at Brands 1985, when replacing champ Niki. Ironically, McLaren was the first team to use the 0, 12 years before.

Yes. The difference is that they are a team with a signed concorde agreement whilst Brawn didn't have it signed at the turn of last year and were therefore given the last places.

Basicaly its simple WDC carries nr1 plate whether he stays with winning team or moves elsevhere (hill to arrows, alonso to MLc)

BUT thats where simplycity ends. WHAT IF WDC CHANGES teams mid season -what happenes than???. Nobody can answer that question.

In the past numbers were more less static much like nascar and there were holes also for eg no 13,17,18 and things like that. Only rule was WDC carriing nr1 plate so they just switched like when MCL switched with Ferrari before 1990 because Prost (WDC) went to ferrari. So MCL ended up with 27 and 28. Funnily enough Ferrari inherited those numbers from williams before 1981 and they stick with them for ages (god knows why, even the old man preffered 11 and 12)

exactly melandri wores it w/o any problems

piff