Are you blind, he has the second fastest car! He has the environment,he is the center of the team

He just has to stop making rookie like mistakes and start to delivering.

my case exactly, the team can do no wrong

(btw the WDC and WCC rankings might just possibly remotely suggest the team have given him the 3rd fastest car)

not to mention doing all this AFTER the team had announced that Alonso would replace him and had abandoned the F60 to work on the F10.

How much more self-motivation do you want? And laziness? Have you seen the number of extra events he's doing in between WRC races, which are themselves pretty gruelling compared to F1? Not to mention wanting to rally in between F1 races when he was at Ferrari. How is this lazy?

Amazing what Kimi managed to achieve on his own in an abandoned car that nobody else could drive, especially once the team had to focus on him. I wonder what the results would have been if Ferrari had made it clear from the beginning that Kimi was to lead the team, the way his predecessor did; rather than allow this power struggle to develop where Massa was trying to become the lead driver (with a bit of help from the former driver whose legacy relied on Massa not getting thrashed by his replacement).

This post proves you have little to no grasp of reality, and yes Ferrari were right to replace Kimi with a better driver.

I don't know whether some Ferrari fans miss him or not. One thing I do know however. Having watched the last season and a half, as a Räikkönen fan, I most certainly don't miss Ferrari.

Of course Ferrari has every right to replace Kimi with better driver, I myself am still waiting that driver to show up...

Darn. I voted "wrong", which is right in that I wanted to say, what an idiotic thing for Ferrari to have done.
But I should have voted "right", because the entertainment value that the Ferrari/Alonso combo is giving us is priceless.
After all, it is all showbusiness......

Silly thread ... come back in 2 years, if by then they got more than 1 WDC they were right, if not they were wrong. Simple as.

The La Gazetta has organized a poll under the tifosi with the question who is to blame at Ferrari for the current situation. The majority of the voters pointing there fingers to Chris Dyer and Stefano Domenicali and not to FA of FM. Especially Dyer is accused of being not creative in his tactical plans and not learning of his earlier mistakes.

Who's to blame is simple: The "Italians" ... When Luca decided Todt was too powerful and tried to uproot Todt's Ferrari hierarchy the team lost focus. Stefano, nice a guy as he is, has an HR background ... Way too many yes men and no leader, there in lies Ferrari's problem.

Agreed on the leader front, but you can't go around blaming the Italians. There are plenty hard working, intelligent engineers at Maranello who give their all to the team.

I certainly don't. That's more up to the team than the driver.

Alonso has not set world on fire with Ferrari so far, tarher on the contrary I would say. So to declare him better is yet to be ratifyed

From the persepective of this McLaren 'fanboy' it is like Judas Iscariot joining the Taliban.
They do, indeed, deserve each other.

Would have repped Massa with him instead, but i also get the feeling Kimi would have done a better job with that Ferrari than Alonso has managed so far.

Either way, huge shame Kimi isn't in F1 this year. Him and Heidfeld losing their seats was an awful shame.

But he is beating Massa quite convincingly despite the F10 being seen as a much better car compared to last year's 'dog'.

Talkin´about Massichello..??

The one who beat Raikkonen in 08? Yes. Who else?!

Kimi would have been in the fight for the WDC. Ferrari is a top 3 car. At the moment Ferrari is better than Mclaren. Yet Alonso and Massa can't do shit again Jenson and Lewis.

I'm pretty sure Kimi would have been up there. We have seen it last year.

Big mistake of Ferrari to fire Kimi. They should have gotten rid of Massa.

Well then, we`re talking about same person. The former F1-driver..

Of course they were right.

Yea, right, when Alonso beats Massa forcefully (yeah, the Massa that lost the WDC by 1 point with the all time fav Hamilton, the Massa that beat Kimi Raikkonnen), it is because now Massa sucks and not because Alonso is performing greatly despite his mistakes/bad luck

Once he gets the luck in his side, you all are going to have to take back these words

Kimi wanted to rally anyway. I doubt Massa would have accepted the buyout.

Anyway, Ferrari wanted to be able to pass the blame for the last couple years results on driving and they could not have done that with Massa just after the best year of his career and most of all because of the accident. They were expecting to pull a Brawn this year by ditching the F60 and switching to F10 mid-season thinking if Honda could win that way then they could and if switched out Kimi then it would look like the problem previously had been their "lazy" driver rather than the team etc.

Well you've lost me.

I think Ferrari wanted someone who could convincingly beat Massa on a consistent basis - someone who could perform to same level as their salary. I think, for Ferrari, that Alonso has been better value for money.

That's why I put "italians" in quotation marks, I was referring to the directionless management style of Ferrari in the late 80s early 90s, not the nationality. If you remember back then (after Enzo died specifically) everybody made a huge hooplah about how running ferrari was different to running a "british" F1 team, aka they had to run it the "italian" way

Hahahaha, I used to rage but I see it funny now.

It's a bashing festival.

People taking advantage to bash Kimi, Alonso, Massa. I know there are not support threads, but I just mean it's funny. And some throw the knifes so freely that is so funny. I'm starting to get the humourous part of this forum.


But Kimi must be so good that people bring him out even when he retired.

And Alonso must be so good, that he makes some mistakes (not that many) and has some bad luck, and turns to the worst driver ever at Ferrari according to many here. If you review it and count them, he didn't make that many mistakes. Jumping the starting, the Kubica incident, and maybe two mistakes more. Maybe because the car's quality got down until recently that even the Renaults were quicker some people is missunderstanding (pourposely IMO).

I do ask myself what will people say when Alonso comes back to his usual form, that means, without making mistakes and showing among other things why many rank him as the best driver of the grid.

Oh, yeah, they'll say Ferrari is the fastest ever car.

That same Massa who got the help of Kimi pulling aside for Massa because Massa was too slow and help from the FIA and still couldn't win the WDC. And many drivers have beaten Massa, even Fisi.

Beating Massa nowadays is not a big thing, he has not been the same since Hungary... and yes F10 is much better than its predecessor, and it should have had more podiums than it has had...

Same shit again Look:

http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=376839&FS=F1

But yeah, i know, you know better than Massa.

I have to laugh at this quote from your link what Alonso said.

"Felipe is the toughest teammate I have had"

It's no secret that Raikkonen was the highest paid driver in F1 when he was at Ferrari.


What gives you the right to judge how Massa is? He has had even worse races before his accident. Massa is still the same as he has been. Wishful thinking m'fraid. With this logic is Alonso the same as he was when he was winning at Renault? He was so consistent as a Renault driver. Come on, they're both the same drivers as they have always been - Massa especially has had the best medical treatment in the world and there have been so signs that his accident has affected his driving in anyway.

But isn't the gap between team mates supposed to be smaller the better the car is? Maybe the F10 isn't so good after all because it's in the same position as the F60 was last year.

Desperation from Mr.Liuggi.

Certainly not one year in advance, with all the compensations to Kimi. Otherwise time will tell.

A bit off topic: but beware, Alonso "in terms of talent" leaves some doubt that Hamilton- at least I think that's why he mentions "one of best"- might be a bit more talented. BUT of course 2007 was- in Alonso's mind- problematic because of the McLaren team in general (he claims that Hamilton was not a problem), and you can see he thinks that Hamilton in his rookie year was so talented only because he knew the tyres so well. to Fernando

On topic: Yes, of course Ferrari made the right decision- it is not about who is the better driver, Alonso or Kimi, not about Alonso's bad luck and stupid mistakes this year at all... Kimi- a great driver he is- was not really motivated. Lack of motivation should not be praised by giving another chance... Firing Kimi in a way helped him, also helped Alonso. No it is time for Fernando to prove once again what he can do- because that's what racing is about.

Ferrari's problem was not in the drivers, they kept making team blunders since the gold team left the show
straetegic mistakes, development mistakes, unclear roles, spying scandal from inside the team..you name it...
the drivers were doing the job always
if you can't extract everything from Kimi, Alonso and Felipe you've got a problem with the team. These guys are not good but extremely good.
In Ferrari's view it was kimi's fault for not adapting despite being fast..it's felipe's fault for not adapting to the tyres this year, it's fernando's fault for making so many mistakes this year (together with the team)

Never Ferrari's fault, only drivers can't extract everything. F1 is a team sport and to be able to deliver you need more than "almost a quick car".
McLaren are 10 classes above Ferrari at this (and about 15 above Red Bull)

Some says that Kimi is the highest payd F1 driver even in 2010


Well what gives us all right to debate here? My opinnion is that Massa has not been the same after Hungary 2009, and you can see it by looking the stats from the start of the season. The reason might be the crash or the tyres or sunspots or what ever, but he has not been fast after his comeback...

The reason of Felipe problems is defined by Ferrari: the tyres. But this is unpopular here, because here most of people don't like Alonso. Problem with the tyres means that Massa is just not as good as Alonso, because as we know Alonso has the same car with the same tyres.

So instead of this, people want to see it otherwise: problem is of course the accident which means that Alonso is not better than Massa and he looks fast only because of his luck (Massa accident). But this is not true.

It's so obvious...

There is also some weird logic:

Hamilton faster than Button => Hamilton is awesome driver.
Alonso faster than Massa => Massa is bad driver.

Everyone hailed Hamilton qualy in Silverstone. In Q2 he was almost 6 tenths faster than Button.
But Alonso was almost 7 tenths faster than Massa in Q3 in Silverstone and what? Everyone said that Massa is just bad.

It's fair? I mean really, fair or not?


Interesting: before the season a lot of people predicted that Alonso will have problems with Massa, because Felipe is simply a fast driver. Now Alonso is faster and the same people say that Alonso still is not fast. I imagine what will happen when for instance Alonso and...maybe Vettel would be in one team and Alonso still would be slighty faster. Excuses? Ferrari favour Alonso? Alonso is faster because of invisible Vettel's problems (which obviously exist)? Because of dwarfs who constantly damaging Vettel's car?


Of course his mistakes is another story but even with this mistakes he has still 31 points more than Massa. Bigger margin than Hamilton vs Button.


Yeah, I'm an Alonso fan and now you can say that i'm blatant troll, i don't care

(Sorry for my english, i hope you understand me )

There is more evidence in the way of the accident not affecting his current driving than there is vice versa. Ferrari have re-signed him for another two years and the world's best medical experts giving him the OK to race again - what is there to doubt? Is Alonso not the same driver now as he was in 2005 and 2006 because of his inconsistency and mistakes?


James Allen has shared his view on the matter, for anyone interested:

Q. "James, would you say that Fernando has been a worthy replacement for Raikkonen?"

A. "Yes. But I don't want to start a tirade from Kimi fans."

Now it`s official. The mighty Allen has said it. The thread can be closed..

if this is what you understand from "problem with tyres" then my friend you are waisting your time with f1..might as well watch something you're capable of understanding

18.3% blames drivers and 36 % blames Dyer and pitwall actions and 17 % blames F10 development.

So you prefer Alonso keeps winning Massa, instead of winning WDC
Well, then you don´t have to worry,everything is looking good for you.

If you said that you should explain me more, right? Give some arguments.

I fully understand that F1 is a complex sport, but i still think that Massa is most responsible for that. Engineers surely told Massa what the problem really is, right? Remember Heidfeld 2008? He had the same problem. In Monaco 2008 Theissen said that Nick has problems with the tyres. They explained it pretty well and said thay they exactly know what the problem really is (warming tyres). And they sorted out this before the end of that season.

Alonso and Massa have both the same car and Massa has problem with warming. Logic says that they should look at Alonso driving style, right? If one driver has an aggresive style (Kubica 2008) and the other more smooth (Heidfeld 2008) and the first was a lot faster, so it's all about driving style, right? Because that was Theissen explanation. If driver is very good, then he can switch his driving style pretty fast. If not, he has a more problems. Logic says that, right?

But i'm waiting for you explanation because you surely know this technical things a lot better I'm not technical and I only use basic logic, which is difficult without base of knowledge.

Well at least I know one person who was interested!

to answer the thread question:
that was the smartest move maybe in the history of ferrari!
they have the best driver in the team during the restructuring phase of ferrari.
They know to win titles, they have just to get the restructuring together and the driver will deliver!

restructuring from what? 2 WCCs and 1 WDC? :S
Ferrari had 1 bad year, 2009, results wise. And 2009 was squarely down to the car, a car they abandoned in June to start work on the F10.

As a Raikkonen fan, I would say they were to right to replace him with Alonso because I wouldn't want Kimi to be in the kind of team Ferrari are becoming.
Ferrari are making too many mistakes at the pitwall.
I know the question deals with "what's better for Ferrari", but I've answered it from the perspective of "what's better for Kimi.

Yeah sure, hiring the combo Schumi - Brawn - Byrne which won 5 WDC and 6 WCC + dozens of races is nothing compared to ditching your last WDC to replace him with a primadona who botches every two other start and spend more time complaining/whining about what's happening during the race than leading it.

It's just not as straightforward as that. Some drivers might have the ability to adjust better than others, yes. But then, some drivers can be extremely fast if they can use their unique particular styles, and maybe not so good if they have to drive a different way. That doesn't mean one is better than the other, they're just different.

I don't know what you do for a living, but, lets say you're a secretary, and a very good one, and you can type very, very fast. Suddenly they brought you a new computer but the keyboard has the "F" key where the "U" used to be. Well, you might get used to it, but then, u might not ever type as fast as you did before. You might lose that edge that made you great, but you will still be very good. Or lets say for example that you own a business that sells apples and oranges, and this one sales rep (your employee) is really great at selling apples, but not so hot at selling oranges. You move him over to the oranges diivsion and he's still going to be a great sales rep, but, not as effective as he was at selling apples.

It's not as simple as that either, but you get the point, that's only not adding to it the technical aspects of WHY exactly they can't get the tires to work with their particular styles, set ups, or preferences.

Getting Kimi was the greatest move in Ferrari history due to the fact he brought them back the WDC immediately which is something only one other driver has done (Fangio) and that was over 50 years ago. If he had not had to drive during Ferrari's "restructuring phase" then he would have won every WDC that he drove at Ferrari (based on "extrapolation" and the "fact" that Sir James Allen himself declared that Kimi did the best driving of anyone in F1 last season).

See? Goofy statements like this are dime a dozen across the board. Bottom line is Alonso needs to drive like a madman now just like Kimi did in 2007. There's no point in making excuses for him because all anyone remembers are the championships not the reasons for how things he wasn't in control of made it impossible. See the Kimster himself for countless examples of this such as 2003, 2005, 2008, 2009.