but what the #$ is wrong in what he said?
or is there somebody around who would rank button above the other active champions (alonso and kimi)

How is your Portuguese? I think it's much easier for native English speakers to come across well in English press than it is when someone is either a) speaking english as a second (or third!) language or b) speaking in their native tongue with a different cultural context and then having that translated (by a third party) into English.

For example, listen to some Australians talk about sport and it will sound particularly, shall we say, arrogant, to English ears. Cultural context matters and it's not right applying your own context to someone else's and then making a personal judgement on that person based on it.

Assa hole

"The drivers who beat me and the guy who's going to beat me are way better than that other guy, for sure I should be world champion before him"

I agree with Massa

Erm there was one extra race last year (2008) and there was also one race with half points this year.

I don't disagree with that completely. I think they are about on the same level. Both took years to get where they are. Button was slow, but improved, Massa was error prone, but improved. With another team, both could 'die'. They are not those drivers who will drive fast and realiably almost anything straight away.

Massa is entitled to his view, but I believe he is making a rod for his own back. If the Mclaren and Ferrari are roughly equal in performance, Massa finishing behind Button will be a stick to beat him with. Massa has a set of balls making a public statement like that. I Don't understand the trash-talk from Massa recently. He should concentrate beating Alonso.

Can't agree more with Massa this time! I don't like him and usually don't like what he says (espacially since his accident), but I think it is good that drivers say what is on their mind. I wish more drivers would be outspoken like that, it would be much more fun for us fans!

Nick Fry saying that "Button needs to up his game if he wants to beat Lewis" is around the same of what Massa said, even the guy's former boss of years doubts he is Lewis level.

Indeed.

This year Button scored 95 out of a possible 165 (57.6%)

Last year Massa scored 97/180 (53.9% - equivalent to 89/165) and Hamilton 98/180 (54.4% - equivalent to 90/165).

How many mechanical/team induced retirements did Massa have last year vs Button this year?

Just curious...

mechanical dnfs
lewis his opponent in a damn fast car
a strong teamate
not having a ddd advantage for half of a season to grow a huge lead

From Alonso, Kimi, Lewis and Jenson, who's the weakest? Jenson.
It's simple. The guy barely existed after the 7th round... I can't remember the teammate of any of these to have fought in the dry for win, while the WDC elect tries to get into the points!
He was just very loyal to the team and got rewarded, but I doubt he's in the top 10 pace wise. He's very good sometimes, good in overtaking, bad in defending and always good in the wet, but no consistence or this explosive speed in qualy.

Brawn BGP 001's post that I was quoting was in response to blizzzzard who was using a comparison between points between Massa last year and Button this year.

I'm wasn't looking into other factors, but if points are going to be brought into it then they need to be normalised with relation to the number of points available.

Now Massa says: Kimi is an excellent driver.
Recently Massa says: I always beat Kimi


Hmmmm...

^

This just proves some people only read the title of the topic.

He never said he always beat Kimi.

he said he was competitive against kimi in 2007, not "always beat" (the title of that thread was wrong, bad translation or something)

He does say some nice things. All the truth but only the ones which people will argue with are generally published.
Him talking about Ham But line up when it was just a possibility
"If it happens, it will be an excellent pairing," added Massa.

This thread has reminded me of why I hate driver worshippers. Let's do a little calculation shall we? Let's see how many potentially WDC winning cars Raikkonen, Hamilton and Alonso have had and compare it to Button. Maybe then we will realise why Button had a "mediocre career".

Hamilton: Had a WDC capable car in 2007, 2008. That's 2 out of 3 years he's been in F1.
Alonso: Had a WDC capable car in 2005, 2006 and 2007. That's 3 out of 8 years he's been in F1.
Raikkonen: Had a WDC capable car in 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008. That's 4 out of 9 years he's been in F1.
Button: Had a WDC capable car in 2009. That's 1 out of 10 years he's been in F1.

And to all those who say that Button had a poor second half to the season, what about Hamilton's messy and inconsistent season last year? Not to mention that he managed very little this year before McLaren sorted out the MP4-24. Alonso? Was nowhere this year in a crap car or at the beginning of last year before Renault made the R29 come good and even then one of Alonso's wins was due to cheating. Also remember that Alonso won 6 races in the first half of 2006 but only 1 in the second. Raikkonen? Crapped out a potential WDC in 2008 and lost to... Massa, who MS destroyed in 2006.

It's very much about the car and not so much to do with the drivers (although they are a minor factor as we see due to teammate battles). Button did what he had to do this year. He won the WDC with a car that was capable of it and beat his teammate. You can't ask a driver to do any more than that. Any speculation that Hamilton, Alonso or Raikkonen would have won 14 races in this year's Brawn is just that: speculation. How do a bunch of frustrated internet fanboys know that the Brawn's handling would have suited any of those drivers?

Although I agree with Massa, I don't think he should be saying this about a fellow driver. It's disrespectful, and anyway he has a bit of a cheek considering he was one corner away from being the most undeserving WDC ever.

style? Please give me a break.. DC called montoya a monkey once

Massa is just honest. Some people in here need to get out more I can't actually believe they get offended by someone telling the truth. The furum is full of ultrasensitive people .

so he means I'm more excellent than him

Somehow, I don't think Button will be losing any sleep over these comments.

He deserved WDC more than Hamilton did

I'm not a fan of Massa or Button, really, but I think the fundamental comment is accurate: there can be little doubt that Hamilton, Alonso and Raikkonen are more gifted racing drivers than Button, which is not to say he's not a very strong driver himself. He's probably more consistent than the other three but shows less flair and raw talent (unless he's in a significantly better car, of course).
As for Felipe - I'm all for drivers speaking their minds but Massa always manages to sound a bit desperate. I don't know how much of an effect his accident and subsequently missing half a season has had, but I certainly think he's running scared now that Fernando's coming to crash his homecoming party. Massa may be loved at Ferrari but I think Alonso will be their golden boy in 2010....and I think Felipe thinks that too.
As some others have said, I doubt Button will be losing any sleep over this. This kind of comment, along with the overwhelming consensus that he's going to get whooped by Lewis next season, may just serve to make him more determined and ultimately a better driver. Only time will tell.

Its one of the side effects to frontal lobe damage... disinhibition.

It's going to be more entertaining hearing what Felipe has to say next year than watching the racing

I must disagree with Massa. I think of the four champions in F1, Hamilton is the weakest. His winning margin of 1 point over a driver who has never won a championship clearly demonstrates this.
Champions in order of superiority.
1) Alonso - 2 titles
2) Button - won title with a race to spare.
3) Kimi - beat a driver who would win the championship the following year.
4) Hamilton - could only beat a non champion (to date) by 1 point, also with less wins than the second placed driver. In addition he scored less wins than Kimi in his championship year.

Stop boffing glue mate, it's bad for your health

Okay okay, everyone knows JB is the weakest link. So why tell it to the whole world as if its the undiscovered truth? Whats Massa's intention actually? Must be getting itchy for Assa.

You're talking out of your arse

Massa was a envious jerk by saying those things. Period.

This year:

People think Button, Hamilton,Kimi, Alonso and even Massa are on equal terms or very close!


Next year:

it will go back to Alonso & Hamilton are miles away from the rest



Massa baby stop talking about other peoples talent, thats just lame.

We all know all F1 drivers think they are better than everyone else, if they didnt they wouldnt be F1 drivers.


Massa baby there is one rule you dont break, YOU DONT SAY IT IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA, keep it to yourself

He's being interviewed?? he's answering questions??

envious because he says alonso, kimi and lewis are better
great logic you have
period

You get the impression Massa is a very insecure person who needs to be heard

Why am I not surprised.

This post falls on its own logic.
Hamilton was more than a match, in his rookie season, to the driver you placed 1st. The next season took the title, albeit by one point, but remeber the massive lead he almost gave away due to nervy mistakes. He drove brilliantly up to the last three races.
He also had some brilliant drives this year.

I have Hamilton 1st, Alonso 2nd, Kimi 3rd, and Button on a respectable 4th.

That freaked the shit out of me

I hate cats

Rofl and your persona is Jose Mourinho?!! :-)

Massas comments aren't that controversial, many would think that Alonso and Hamilton are better than Button.

The only one I'd question is Kimi. Its good for Massa to say that Kimi is better than Button, since Massa has shown himself to be as good as Kimi. So I suspect some self-interest is at play here.

or that we have a lot of people around that just wait for every word he says recently and start a topic on this
how many of these topics do we have now?

I agree with Rinehart, Alonso>Hamilton>Jenson>Kimi

Where did Vettel finish in the championship in your little dream world?

One minute most of the guys on here complain that drivers are too sterile and corp like... Then when a driver actually speaks his mind he gets hounded.

So what he doesn't rate button? Its his opinion and he is entitled to it and I think many would agree with him. Lets see what happens next year.



I can't wait for Felipe to take on Alonso... I say bring it on! Ron must be so happy for Luca at the moment.
How long before Alonso loses his cool with Felipe and its gloves off at the Scuderia?

Some posters are quite like that, they're easy to spot though, they invariably use a surfeit of bold type.

on a possitive note, this thread serves a very good purpose which is to separate the reasonable posters from the boys and bitter ones.

WTF? Speaking as a guy not much taller than Massa, I take offense a the "short arsed" and height insults being thrown around. Makes me want Massa to somehow sweep Alonso - but then, I'm Alonso's height, and outside of F1 most of those guys would be considered "short arsed" so WTF?


Massa has been in public outside of F1 more than any other driver lately, so he's going to get quoted more. He's also got to be pretty restless after sitting around so long. An "uninhibited" Massa will be fun to watch drive, maybe not as much as an "uninhibited" Sato - but "fun"... but we won't know until next year, will we?

Did any of your histrionic rolling pin wielding housewife/drama queens actually stop to consider for one second that this is actually the off season in f1, and as such there is very little news and what there is often gets taken out of context of the situation it was mentioned in to make a story out of it? (not like it has never happened before is it?).

Just thought I'd slip that in there while your lighting your torches and gathering your pitchforks for a march on Maranello.