That too.

How do you relate what he said with being desperate and running scared of Alonso ?

You have to work on your reading comprehension a little. He didn't compare himself to Button.

Chill out fella i was only joking

Or have you got short man syndrome

Oi, I didn't put an order to Hamilton and Alonso!

I think somebody told Massa he needs to be assertive ahead of the Alonso thing and he's just trying to do that, occasionally quite badly.

Do you forgive him if he is a WDC and says that?
People seems ask him more questions after his accidents, don't they.

Reasonable posters:

"He wasnt disrespectful at all.. he just said what he thinks and what most people think"

"People complaining about drivers being robots, Massa says what he thinks and people are criticizing"

"What is the problem of saying someone is better than someone?"

"Would you prefer him to say those PR BS like "they are all great drivers and all great persons"

I think its more commonly known as, "clutching at straws" The phenomena is known to occur, when ones argument is weak.

Wtf. the crash messed up his brain.

Much as I respect folk's having the right to opinions and all that – and I'm not saying Massa should gag himself – only that now he's just being too free with his thoughts for his own good. Sometimes it's worth it not to say exactly what you're thinking, especially when there's nothing to gain and a potentially rude crumb of truth sits behind the statement.

what do you mean exactly when you say for his own good.. How is this going to affect him. ?


why?

I dont personally believe Massa has said anything controversial. The only reason I have been critical of his comments, is because I have to be consistent. If Hamilton said something like this, he would have been vilified from pillar to post. So I cant without losing credibility not sanction/castigate Massa for his trash-talk. Do I agree with Massa's view? Yes. Should he be causing friction and offending his fellow drivers? I'll leave that answer up to each individual.

Hey! "Penis," please! I am sensitive there!

Richard

Lewis has said very different things to what was said here..
He called the backmarkers monkeys, he's said Kimi lacked balls, he's said that he is the strongest, he's said that he's the best at his job - These are traits of arrogance.
Massa simply said Kimi,Lewis and Alonso are better than Button.. He is not even including himself in that statement.
These are two totally different things..

He should, it's too lovey dovey between the drivers, boooring

Have to say I like Massa as a person. I don't think he has fundamentally changed as a personality. The trash talk is probably just a sign that he knows Ferrari don't think of him as a true number one driver and, naturally, he is talking himself up (and others down) as a reaction to that. I'm sure Massa is more than a little nervous about Alonso coming to Ferrari. He has to know what everyone else already knows - Alonso is being brought in to LEAD the team. Massa knows he will be Number 2 if he doesn't beat Alonso out of the box in 2010. He has to be worried. I would be.

see? if you like him, it's honest opinion, if you don't like him, it's arrogant.

he's nervous about Alonso, and he reassures himself by talking up Alonso and trashing Button, how does that work?

To this juncture, Felipe has been one of the consummate sportsmen in F1. I mean really high quality, always going for it, honing his skills and never complaining. His grace in defeat vs. Lewis a couple of years ago was really big time stuff, I thought.

I hope he doesn't lose that - else Alonso will eat him for lunch!

I actually admire Lewis for this driving.. I care very little for what drivers do or say outside the track..
But if you can't see the difference there you lack some very basic comprehension skills, because Lewis is most of the time referring to himself whereas in this case Massa is having an opinion about 4 other drivers..
If Lewis says I think Button is better than Kimi for example, I would actually value that comment and would not consider it arrogant at all..

He can't trash-talk Alonso. He would be crucified by Ferrari if he did. They already made him walk back the comments he made about Alonso "knowing" what happened in Crashgate. He knows he can't trash Alonso. Any other driver is perfectly fine as a target from that POV.

Sources?

As far as the monkey comment is concerned, it was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else.

Thanks for taking stuff out of context.

First of all, there's nothing wrong with him saying whatever he wants. It's his right. I guess it all depends on how he wants to been seen.

By his 'own good' I mean in terms of reputation, both F1 fan wise and among his peers. Who do you enjoy the company of more; people who say whatever pops into their head, good or bad, or the average folks who don't necessarily lie but don't exactly tell people that they rate you below others? And before you come back with the "These are F1 drivers, they aren't friends!" line well no, they don't have to be best buddies but they are co-workers, after a sort, and lately, what with his being available to the press more than most, Massa's been a little too free with his assessments of his fellow drivers. Just my opinion but, like Massa, I'm entitled to it.

As far as the fan thing goes, look around. Some people are unduly angry and basically calling him a prick. If that's the character Massa's going for then so be it but, until recently, I hadn't gotten the impression that he was. Thing is, fans (and anti-fans) assign a driver or team certain traits based on media impressions and that's it, forever more so-and-so is arrogant or a jerk or a backstabber.


To be clear, I don't care one way or the other what he thinks of Button – in fact, I agree to a point – but personally, if asked about my views, I be a tad more diplomatic in my response. Call me a stickler for manners, but I believe there's a smart way and a crude way to speak your mind. I think it's obvious which category I feel Massa's been stepping into on occasion, whatever his reasons.

it's not a matter of comprehension skills, it's a matter of different opinions about what arrogance means. Some people here are absolutely convinced Massa is an asshole, and they have no comprehension problem. I think Lewis' comments are tongue in cheek and you think it's arrogance, we're both right.

He can trash talk Raikkenon, he didn't, he actually defended him.
As I said before, I've read comments by Raikkenon and Webber, they think it's the car, not Jenson. Massa is not saying these things to big himself up, he knows he's not alone in his views. He's just less diplomatic and more outspoken than the others.

Cool reply dude..
I see where you are coming from.. and what it boils down to is perception and how it varies depending on who you ask. These are personality traits, you are more the diplomatic type and prefer the politically correct responses whereas I prefer honesty on top of anything else. You asked me who do I prefer and I think I just answered that question for you.. At work I prefer people who tell me straight up what they think about my job/performance/attitude etc.. If you think Button will change his attitude towards Massa because of this comment, that just tells me something about Button but not Massa.. It simply means that he gets touched by other drivers telling him straight up that he is not as good as the other WDCs (which is true by the way). It tells me he cannot deal with criticism. .

I looked around and that is why I posted before that this thread is a way to differentiate the reasonable posters from those who are tie to emotional crap and bitterness and behave like 12 y/o.. (as you said, it is my opinion and I am also entitled to it.)... I think like Massa it seems and if I was in his shoes I can give a rat's ass about the second group and more concerned about the first (reasonable fans)..

And to your last point.. There is no reason behind for someone being blunt and for speaking their mind. That's just the way some people are, it's their character.. They don't beat around the bush., when they say something like that is not because they have an agenda, it's simply because they are being honest and being themselves.

Eh ? Button hasn't said anything.

Your mixing your tenses up.

Will they dial in oversteer to compensate for the fuel-fat understeer at the start of the race ? If they do then Hamilton will fly at the end of races.

Lots of ballyhoo talks from Massa recently.

I hope his driving can keep up with his talking. If yes, its all okay, fine and dandy. If no, better for him to shut up.

He'll say anything to get on JB's back

The interviewer didn't seem to think it was tongue in cheek, I think iirc he called it "disparaging" Since he was the one doing the interviewing, I'd suggest that he didn't take it out of context.

His first worry has to be to overcome the accident.

I dont support any of the current F1 bores but I feel certain that Hamilton will despatch Button with ease and be 2010 WDC, Massa will be faster than Alonso, believe me, and Kimi will join Merc. and challenge for the top 3.

Is this yet another case of a racing driver offending sensitive fans?

This is nothing new. From reading various forum over the years, most drivers (be they Schumacher, Montoya, Hamilton or Massa) can never say anything right in the eyes of some. Funny that those who complain the most fail to see the irony in the level of trash and bile they spit themselves!

According to the team principals, this is how they rank the current drivers:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80222

The full AUTOSPORT F1 Team Principals' top ten results for 2009 are:

1. Sebastian Vettel 76
2. Jenson Button 67
3. Lewis Hamilton 65
4. Fernando Alonso 39
5. Rubens Barrichello 35
6= Kimi Raikkonen 30
6= Mark Webber 30
8. Felipe Massa 19
9. Robert Kubica 10
10. Adrian Sutil 8

GP Week have this ranking:

http://www.gpweek.com/PDF/GP072.pdf (p. 46)

1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Sebastian Vettel
3. Jenson Button
4. Webber/Barrichello
5. Sebastien Buemi

So, maybe the opinion voiced by Massa isn't as common in F1 circles as some of the posters on here leads us to believe.

Especially the team principals listing should have some credibility (at least more than my personal opinion).

... For 2009.

those are the ratings for this year only. If the team bosses rated button top 3, why isn't he driving for ferrari and was only the second choince for mclaren after kimi. ?

1. Not everybody wants to drive for Ferrari.
2. Not everybody thinks that Ferrari will be the best team next year.
3. Not everybody thinks that who ever drives for Ferrari belongs to the top 3 automatically
4. Not everybody thought that Button really wanted to leave Brawn.

Therefore your assumuption that if he's in the Top 3 he should be driving for Ferrari, and that he was second choice behind Kimi is nonsense.

Oh, of course, since it's for 2009 this voting has no significance at all...

If they vote like they did, I'm pretty sure they did so based on the performance of the driver. Since your point being that this is only relevant for 2009, you would also argue that Button have reached a level of performing that he has never done before and will never do again? Maybe so, but the fact remains. The team bosses have voted Button ahead of both Alonso and Raikkonen.

I agree that votings like this in some way reflects how well they do in the WDC standings but it still has more value than lot's of the sofa racers views. Well, they do for me at least.

Vettel was voted first, why isn't he driving for Ferrari or McLaren then? Ferrari chose their drivers when Button was not on the market (not that I think it would have made a difference as they wanted Alonso and wouldn't drop Massa after his accident). McLaren held talks with Raikkonnen at a time when Button probably was not seeking employment outside of Brawn. McLaren didn't waste much time in offering Button employment and if Raikkonnen is that superior, I'm sure they would have met his demands over sponsor days, rallying etc.

Couldn't have said it better.

very true, performance is cyclic and Ferrari are not on top at present.

Well, if you care to take a look at the other years that this list have been compiled, you could require that Button should be on top five at least commonly.

And by Massa's logic he should regularly be ahead of all of them (since he claims to be just as good, or better, than Raikkonen and Alonso).

Ever since crashgate massa has been very bitter. and i think hes just pissed off at the world at the moment cos they couldn't give him his tainted wdc that he didnt deserve in the first place.

ok, so can you honestly tell me without blinking that Button is better or as good as Kimi, Alonso and Lewis based on what you have seen from their racing careers. If your answer is yes then we can move on and I have nothing else to say .. If your answer is no, then what is the problem with Massa saying the exact same thing that you are thinking..

The boy from Brazil really shouting his mouth off since he got his knock on the head eh. Think he should let his driving do the talking next year, hes gonna have his hands full with Alonso battling for small points in the weak Ferrari. The downward spiral has started Felipe, youre not going to get another chance like 08 anytime soon

I'm not a Latino but this I assume is the logic he's trying to build. He's actually putting a lot of pressure on himself just down the road a little without realising it. He is indeed going to have his hands full of a slippery eel in Fernando and as Tenmantaylor says, in a weak Ferrari. Course the fanboys will say Ferrari will bounce back in 2010 but if F1 were that easy everyone would be having a go. It isn't and Ferrari will have to work hard to get back on level terms with their great rivals McLaren who look the team to beat next year. Felipe is looking a little errr..... impaired at the moment. The bump on the head has changed him, no question. Will he recapture his previous brilliant form - I very, very much doubt it and Fernando will become favourite son quickly if he isn't already.

Expectations of another Schumacher like era any time soon are removed from reality. Felipe should reflect on the fact he is not yet a WDC - Jenson is. The fastest driver of the time doesn't necessarily win or deserve to win the WDC else there would be few people ever win it.

Good post, i had a pop at Felipe for his comments but i actually like him

I really hope he can rediscover his form but it's going to be tough for him, he can do all the work on the simulator he wants but out on track it'll be a different matter altogether

I am stunned by Massa's comments as I have always thought of him as a fair and nice guy. However this is a rude and disrespectful comment from a man who knows how tough it is to fight for a world championship.