I agree with you talking point, just because Red Bull will be full doesnt mean Kimi wont return. But then again I still dont think he will be coming back. If he does I would love to see him in a FI along with Sutil. I think Sutil needs a driver to push him and im sure that Kimi would do just that.

I think Kimi still has chance with Torro Rosso? Second Red Bull team. For first five teams only free place is maybe Petrov's.

Ahhh come one guys!!! Kimi won´t come back!! Do you really want to see him at team like Torro Rosso or Force India.

I for one think that he already made up his mind and wants to continue rallying!

Also, I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of Mercedes making a huge offer to buy Vettel out of his RedBull contract. Again, I'm not saying this will happen, but we're early into this season and there's still plenty of time for rifts to occur and all sorts to happen. Maybe RedBull won't feel they need Vettel any longer if Webber wins them the WDC? Perhaps Vettel will get disgruntled about being beaten... I'm sure Mercedes would love to have the best German in their team, especially if Schumacher continues to flop.

*Pushed "panic mode" button*

It is widely rumoured that Kubica will take Massa's Ferrari seat for '11. If that happens there may easily be two Renault seats going, and we could see Massa/Raikkonen partnership renewed.


I don't know what to make of Force India; they make two steps forward and then one step back...

For the love of God, how much more obvious does it need to be before some of you guys get the message?!?

???

I still can't believe people are expecting Kimi to return. It was evident that he was going rallying the moment he parted with Ferrari yet we had rumours flying round for months about him resigning with McLaren or Mercedes. It was never going to happen and then and isn't going to happen with Redbull now.

The whole PR Redbull thing is silly too. He's doing it for them in rallying and they have Mark and Seb in F1. Why lose the extra publicity and bring him back into F1 whilst losing out in Rallying? I don't think Redbull are interested in that. I don't think Kimi is interested in that.

Why screw up a good thing?

Mark's fan? On your position I don't see any reason for Kimi to comeback too.

Is Kimi tied into some long-term RedBull commercial agreement or something? As far as I was aware he's simply got a one year deal at the RedBull-sponsored Citroen rally team.

RedBull has been one of Kimi's sponsor for some years, but for the rally team they have a 1year contract.

These connections and Webber's bad results in some races starting the whole Kimi to RedBull F1 team. I don't see that happening.

As for some of you, you would rather over-analyze every word and hang on every word just to find a tiny possibility for keep believing that he will be back.

My advice is to start looking at the obvious....Mark's results and Horner's latest interview. Leave the speculation for those journo's who have to sell papers.

Untill you have another official statement, there no point over analyzing.



P.S. and these comes from someone who supports Kimi.

Yup, I sure am. I also believe I am unbiased and realistic. I would say the same thing if it was any other driver who had been at Redbull for 4 years, in form and who gels very well with his team and has a team mate like Seb to push and be pushed by. Putting Kimi in the other seat is going to upset what they have now. With both drivers doing very well for the past 2 seasons why do they need Kimi? Seriously.

Räikkönen's not coming back. Period. It's been painfully - or joyfully, depending on your view - clear for a while already. Why can't we just accept that? I was hoping people would finally let go now that Red Bull's off the table but apparently we've set our sights on the likes of Renault and Toro Rosso. Ha, like they'd want anything to do with him or he with them! The guy's done with F1 and F1's done with him. I don't know which came first but it doesn't really matter either way.

If someone this time last year had joined this forum and posted the topic "Michael Schumacher will return to F1 next season as a Mercedes race driver", that person would most probably have been given an instant warning (if not instant banning) for starting a stupid troll thread.
Likewise, how many people really thought Button would dump Brawn after winning the championships? Strange things happen in the F1 drivers' market... I wouldn't be too quick to rule anything out just yet.

I would currently rate Kimi's chances of a comeback at around 30%.

Here's the thing about Raikkonen (or any other truly gifted person) that most people don't understand: all the money, fame, trophies, adulation and other "perks" that come with success and which are prime motivators to the merely talented all take a back seat (excuse the pun) to the simple pursuit of the novelty of a worthy challenge. Without a worthy challenge to the keen, intense mind of such an individual, they actually get burned out from spending so much energy trying to artificially recreate the kind of intensity and motivation that normally comes easily when an interesting challenge is at hand.

After ten years of F1 and a WDC, you could say there was nothing new nor extremely challenging in F1 to keep his gaze from wandering elsewhere. Looking from this perspective, that McLaren or any other F1 team had trouble keeping him in F1 is understandable. He certainly doesn't need the money. As the old saying goes, "what do you get the guy who has everything?". Something he can't buy: a purpose, a passion.

So it is no surprise then that he is immensely enjoying rally. It is after all, a worthy challenge even to someone who many have called one of the most talented drivers in history. As long as it continues to be a stimulating challenge he will likely continue there.

If some clever person figures out how to entice Kimi back to F1, I guarantee it won't be with money (other than perhaps to give him equal billing to any potential new teammate). It will be the promise of some kind of new challenge or adventure along with more autonomy and control of his immediate environment while there. Is that possible? Unlikely, but never say never...

Flawless logic.

How about, firstly, Kimi's marketing value, secondly, he is probably simply better driver than Seb and Mark, could win RB both titles.

Well...your not. That's plain to see.

Mark Webber has had a sensational last 2 races and thoroughly deserves the kudos he is getting. If Briatore has already nailed down a new contract for him, then that's brilliant work from Flavio. Point is this - A genuine championship challenge is not built off 2 great weekends peppered with some average-mediocre ones. What will be the prognosis if MW gets blown off by Vettel the next two events and has very average results? The knifes will be out...that's what will happen.

We've now seen brilliance and mediocrity/stupidity from MW this year. Lets hope its more of the former and you'll be proven right. If the latter returns, you'll be wrong and if Red Bull have already signed him up, they will look stupid.

With that car, MW and SV should be aiming to win 6-8 races and win the championship. They are both still a long way off that (although SV has been robbed by mechanical issues). Nothing is proven yet and RB should be leaving their options wide open.

Probably? I guess there is one way to find out but it seems risky and pointless when the team is working so well together as it is at the moment, leading both championships.....you cant do any better than that!

I have already discussed the marketing value aspect. At the moment they have 3 high profile drivers promoting the brand. Take out Kimi from Rallying and replace Webber at in F1 and now you only have 2. Not that it would matter much anyway... are redbull really that hard up for more sales anyway? They have their fingers in a lot of pies, motorsport and extreme sports being their target markets all of which their guys are at or near the pointy end of their profession.

It just doesn't make sense and at the end of the day, Kimi has shown ZERO interest in returning. There really is no viable connection to be found except that redbull currently sponsor him...and his fans are really grasping at straws if that's enough to convince them he will return next year.

For the record, I am a Kimi fan also so I'm not trying to take anything away from him or his fans. Just keepin it real.

Well, good luck with that. I'd argue that Button (reigning champion) and Schumacher (7-time WDC) had more appeal and bargaining power than Räikkönen (fired because he couldn't hack it in F1, currently toiling away in WRC) has or will have. I'd rate his chances of coming back somewhere between those of Ralf Schumacher and Jacques Villeneuve.

quite frankly,ill agree with this...currently tied at the top with vettel,webber is in the form of his life...while 2 fcukarees dont mean we should forget all his fcukarows of the past,he has the momentum with him firmly.if he finishes with a 10 point margin of vettel,i really cant see how RB are going to fire him.

One problem however may arise if they still fail to win the WDC despite being the fastest car on the track.Horner may decide to bring a more ''known'' WDC material driver.



well put

With all respect, I do think that even Kimi does not know what he wants to do at this very moment, meaning that WRC itself is a great challenge to him. I for one shout more cover on WRC, as I do believe that a series with such complexity is worth to be known more.

Besides, F1 is in some sense very 'boring' in a sense that the public is not expecting any upsetting results, illustrated by the recent SC. deployment. There were so much questionable race results recorded in the past, and see no reason why it must be different now.

In comparison, WRC has lots of moments where driver has to perform. Now this should be a good sign. Only, great pity that it is not aired World Wide...

Well, this year they have superior car and season is not over yet. In F1 things could turn around very quickly. And no one said to change today things. But we are talking about next year. Everything could change. Kimi is a proven top driver, champion, he is younger Mark and could bring a lot of money to RB in a straight way (sponsors) and connect his fans with RB brand. His value in F1 would be much bigger than rally even w/o Webber in the team. And you don't right about zero interest. Kimi said he would return, but if he could fight for championship, and if you look couple of pages back you may find his recent interview where he said he OPEN for F1. And about his connection - he signed contract with Citroen and pre-contract with RB for 2011. That was reported by numerous sources.

If Kimi made his mind and don't want F1 - that's another story. But I wouldn't rule out RB until I read official confirmation for Mark new contract.

It's plain to see how? Because I have his picture as my profile pic? c'mon.

In the past he has made mistakes, he has underperformed and he has buckled under pressure. So has every driver on the grid! Just look at Alonso's season so far, he has made some costly mistakes but would you want to replace him at Ferrari? I bloody hell wouldn't! Now there is talk that Kimi is going to replace him at Redbull. A driver who no doubt has enormous talent and would most likely be very solid in the other seat. But does he want it? Do Redbull need him? I don't think so. Definately not at the moment.

The mediocrity/stupidity may return but I don't think a couple of moments like that should define a driver just as a couple of wins shouldn't. He's done a very solid job for the past 2 years and it's a risk to replace a driver unless there's a massive talent/performance gap or there are relationship difficulties between the driver and the team. Right now everything looks peachy for the entire team.

If not Kimi, though... what are the other options and are they worth replacing Webber? Massa would be the only free driver worthy of the seat but I can't see that happening. If Redbull sign webber so early, than it's obvious to me that Kimi was never a real option, as Horner has basically suggested in his latest interview

This is Kimi thread.

The Kimi news and discussion thread. I quoted the Horner interview pointing out that the "news" that Kimi is likely to replace Webber at Redbull is highly unlikely. I felt it was relevant, but I'll go now before I start a war

No...because you said there is no reason for Red Bull to change their driver line-up. That may be true...but it isn't yet. With the car they have created, they need wins and championships to justify the effort. That means 2 top drivers, two tier 1 drivers. IMO the jury is still out on both SV and MW and, to a certain extent, I think they are lucky that both Hamilton and Alonso (as far as I know) won't be on the market anytime soon. Both SV and MW have done much to justify their standing but it needs to be sustained...for a long time. Also when they are not cruising at the front, i.e when the pressure is really on to conjure a result, they need to deliver. It's a long season still ahead.


Right now...everything is wonderful at Red Bull. 3 weeks ago...it wasn't so fantastic. Long way to go.

He's a long way ahead of Ralf Schumacher and comfortably ahead of Jacques. Raikkonen might have been fired from Ferrari but it wasn't a bloodbath in the manner that JV's split from BAR was. It's one thing to be sacked, its another to have your reputation trashed in public by senior people in the pitlane out of spite.

Having said that, Kimi would be wise to not follow Villeneuve's lead and just take any seat he can get, as JV did in 2005 upon his return. If there is a top team wanting his services, then go for it. If its Williams or Force India...forget it. He's better off enjoying life (and his fat pile of cash) in the WRC.

I suppose we'll find out soon that, if he does want to return, we'll see if the way he exited F1 affects what possible suitors KR might have. I hope it doesn't, he's a huge talent and a World Champion. We want them in competitive cars.

Kimi comes back if he wants to - the end. It isn't dependent on anything but Kimi. His desire to come back may be affected by many things, including how he goes on in Rally, what opportunities are available in Rally and F1 and any other sport he is considering, what he feels like doing and guess what - prolly like many other considerations we know absolutely nothing about, lol. Just like when Webber was doing poorly and people started saying Kimi would definitely take his seat - and Kimi replied himself, 100x's, that was hogwash because he didn't know what he was going to do, the same is true now.

The stupid part is I may as well be writing with black paint on a wall in a dark alley. Let Mark Webber have 2 horrible races in a row and all the chatter will suddenly take a 180 degree turn in the other direction. But the truth will remain the same. Kimi's career is not directly tied to Webber's or anyone else's. Any tie ins will be what they are at the point when he decides and teams make moves. Last time I checked, Red Bull Racing was not the only F1 team...

Bourbon - there is nothing wrong with what your saying. The rumours will swing back and forth depending on the situation and circumstances, your right.

The only thing I'd be careful assuming is that Raikkonen can just waltz back into F1 when he wants, how he wants and with who he wants. Maybe right now there would be a possibility but, the longer he leaves it, the harder it gets. F1 waits for no one, not even proven World Champions and crowd pleasing drivers.

The split from Ferrari was a blow but at least his reputation only took a small hit. Everything now is upto Raikkonen and the F1 teams who may have seats available.

This would be exactly why I place JV ahead of KR in the comeback queue; he doesn't discriminate against crap teams. Being picky is fine as long as KR's happy to stay in WRC but if, in a year or two, he happens to change his mind about F1, he's going to need to swallow some pride and consider teams he's so far ruled out without a second thought. Not unlike Heikki "I'm not interested in small teams like Lotus" Kovalainen who suddenly realised small teams like Lotus aren't so bad after all...

Your right. I can't argue with that, its well said. I guess for the drivers, its upto them just how much they want to be part of F1. Obviously in JV's case, he felt (and still does) he had unfinished business in F1 but he was never going to achieve anything at Sauber. However he was in a losing situation from the beginning because his reputation had been fatally smashed, he was never going to get a top seat based on that.

From a long time fans perspective (selfish I know ) I wish Villeneuve had never returned to F1. It's painful watching a fast, competitive champion in poor equipment year after year and I'm not sure Raikkonen's fanbase would cope with that.

In the end, its KR's decision. He may decide a small, uncompetitive team is his only way back and join them. I just query whether its really worth it for him at this point of his career.

So then be careful in your assumptions. You are the one making assumptions, not me. That is what I have been trying to point out.



There is your example. You assume that there is a possibility right now; you assume the longer he leaves the harder it gets, you assume F1 waits for no one, etc. Why? None of this matters at all. Kimi hasn't even hinted as to what he is thinking - so why are you saying this?

.

There is your next example. You assume it was a blow and his reputation took a small hit - but to whom? To you? Why would that matter to anyone but you? It had neither affect on me, so your assumption is wrong on the whole because it discludes at least one person for sure - me. And you cannot assume that teams, drivers, other fans, etc., agree with you or me on that. So I have no idea why you make this type of statement at all.



Which has been my only point from the start. I agree completely with this. Everything else said is a bunch of hogwash and can only be relegated to assumptions and opinions, because we don't know nothin'.

How many ways can a person say the same thing? What if Jenson wins the lottery and quits F1 to go off with his honey on an around the world journey for a life of meditation? Then there is a seat at McLaren - not just for consideration of and for Raikkonen, but every driver on the grid. What if Webber is invited to Ferrari? What if Merc pays off the breaking of Sebastian's contract and snatches him up for their team next year? What if Kimi loves the upcoming endurance race so much, he decides to become an endurance racer on a moto? So not only do we know nothin', at this point, teams don't know everything either. The funny part is that Kimi himself has said all of this; he's just ignored.



Are you friggen kidding me? His fanbased DID watch that for years - for a hell of a lot of his career, he had great cars in name only and drove the hell out of them anyway. Look at Alonso and Massa this year - that car has given them a hell of a time so far and it's labeled Ferrari.

We (the fans) make assumptions and maybe we are all wrong. Maybe all the F1 teams think completely differently....maybe Raikkonen will be able to dictate whatever he wants. I'm not claiming I know what their thinking but (IMO) there is a fair chance that ith every day which passes, the F1 teams think less and less of Kimi Raikkonen as an option.

Problem is Bourbon...your forgetting that other drivers have been in similar positions before. F1 has a way of dealing with certain situations, that's where fans make their assumptions. Also your not taking into account the way KR left F1. If he had left F1 winning the World title last year and beating Massa easily, I have no doubt he'd waltz back into F1 next year with anyone. If he wanted to...

Problem is - he didn't. He didn't win the title, nor did he beat Massa in the last 2 seasons. It changes things...and you'd be foolish to think otherwise.

If you think Raikkonen had bad cars to deal with, you have not watched much F1. Try watching every year Villeneuve competed for BAR then come back to me.

You wouldn't cope. Nor would many KR fans IMO. There is a difference between the McLaren and Ferrari's Raikkone raced and racing a Lotus, HRT or Virgin this year. A world of difference. Even a Williams or Force India. KR has never been lumped with such equipment and I doubt he'd ever want to be.

So in your opinion alonso had the same renault to work with in 05/06 and 08/09. The problem was alonso and as a result, ferrari took him? Kimi's mclaren was a great car and he couldn't win in it - his fault - and ferrari took him for 40 mil? You think even less of Ferrari than I do I guess - they clearly take any old hacks to drive their cars and pay them tons of money to drive.

And u think their fans enjoyed watching the reliability and poor car performances they suffered? Your intimation that others (Villeneuve) had it worse don't matter at all. That has no bearing on the fact that Kimi's performance was hampered by his car. The fact that it wasn't AS hampered is meaningless.

I have been reading this forum for a while already and noticed that almost everybody here is assuming Räikkönen wants to go back to F1.

The main problem is, though, that no one of us is inside his head.

Maybe, he is much more motivated by the possibility of being the first driver ever to win both a F1 and a rally championship.

Or maybe, he just wants to stay at home with his family and friends away from the media.

Or maybe, he is right now chewing his nails in despair inside his boat because he wanted to go back to F1 in a RB, I don’t have the smallest clue!

But I do believe that, if Red Bull has suddenly decided to go to the media and say they want to keep Webber, so soon in the season, not even considering the young guys of Toro Rosso, they must have good reasons for that.

I must admit though, I find it strange that they have gone to the media first to say they would like to talk to Webber soon. Are they trying to increase his cachet?!

Has Massa renewed his Ferrari contract yet?

Kimi did say that Ferrari would be his last team. Perhaps he agreed to go rallying in order to get Massa's seat in 2011.

I would've wanted a single farewell season in decent machinery - one last opportunity to show that his three miserable years at Ferrari weren't the full picture, one little reminder of just how good we once thought he could be and why we thought it, a confirmation that it wasn't all just a figment of his fans' imaginations and that the reputation he used to have was based on something real. Or one last "Up yours!" gesture before he pissed off to WRC, if that sounds better.

Maybe he would've failed and I wouldn't have got my Disney moment, but I would've felt better seeing it. I get that I'm probably just grasping at straws here but it's really quite difficult to accept that the McLaren years were a fluke while the Ferrari ones were a true reflection of the man's ability (or, rather, the lack of it). I would've liked one more reference point, and then, either he would've failed at Mercedes/Toyota/wherever, too, and I could've got my 'closure' - or he wouldn't have failed but could've left the sport on his own terms and everyone would've lived happily everafter.

Rationally, I understand why he left and why he's happy in WRC. I understand he doesn't care what people think of him, and usually I admire that quality in him. Irrationally, though, I can't help wishing that he'd chosen a different course of action. I know it's silly but still.

I have got one word to say to this discussion: HYSTERIA

Nah, I'm just bored.

Kismet, your posts are highly entertaining. I mean in good sense - brilliant stuff.

It could be fun to hear you in the F1 press conferences commenting on how your race went!

3 miserable years at Ferrari? Can I have some of what you are drinkin'? Were you watching in 2007 when he won 6 GPs, had numerous reliabilility issues and won the WDC? I'm pretty sure Raikkonen would beg to differ that 2007 was a miserable year in F1 for him - he's said as much.



Rationally, you are putting a negative spin on it and so you are the architect of your own "not feeling better" about it. If all fans felt similarly negative about it all, I could understand your perspective on the whole - but the fact is, they don't - I don't. So clearly you don't have to put the negative spin on it if you don't want to.

Kimi backin ferrari car, Stefano Domenicalli has said something about Kimi being anyways welcome to F1 some time ago.

Man, the moment the drivers think,act,choose as their fans "know better" the world will be a better place...

I'm still surprised as how many think they know better what he should do instead of the man himself.
Many of you still think that he has more to prove, but he clearly stated the he hasn't and the way he finished 2009 influenced more some of his fans that I guess feel a little bit "vulnerable" when dealing with other fans in some discussions here.

He's 30...been in F1 for 10years and suddlently after achieving a Word Championship (one of his dreams), he has a chance to have a go at another "challenge".
As someone else posted earlier, you have to understand how much a different challenge can attract a person who loves to seek a new adventure after many years doing the same.
When he left F1, he knew exactly what he was doing and planning ahead.

Heh, imagine if my incurably sarcastic self had fans. Poor bastards wouldn't last long on the internet. "Oh, I'm sure she was just misquoted." Yeah, you wish!

that's disturbing ...

this is all very subjective..personally i can relate with kismet on this as those three years are not my fondest memories of him ,WDC or not.the struggles with tyres in qualifying,trapped behind slower cars in races,those fastest laps showing his pace was still there,having to play second fiddle(end of 08) to a driver that i consider very very average,commitment struggles,and then finally getting fired(yes the santander deal had its role but its still what it is)...all in all his stint at ferrari didnt yield anywhere near the results it was supposed to.he was brought in as MS's replacement.

ill take the 05 season over his 07 WDC anyday.

But Kimi wouldn't, and that is what really counts in terms of how he sees his career and future, doesn't it?

Btw, you don't have to take one season over the other - you have them both. It is very simple. That perspective is glass is half empty, mine is half full - there is no meeting of the minds here. Those that see it half empty get to be miserable, I get to be happy. I can only share, not force you from your misery.