No. He's not driving in F1 this year because he wanted to do rally more than F1 anyway (at least that's what all you anti-Kimi people were saying during 1-2 years ago period), Santander wanted Alonso in Ferrari, and Santander was willing to give Kimi a 19M bribe if he would not drive in another team against Alonso. But that bribe is over now so Kimi is perfectly free to come back to F1 now. The only problem (for those of us who aren't Kimi-haters) is, surprise surprise, he still doesn't seem to be as interested in F1 as he is in other things. In other words, for people like Alonso lovers who love him so much that they spend their free time in Kimi forums trying to find ways of puting down Kimi in order to make Alonso look better, lucky for them, there's hardly any reason to believe Kimi would drive F1 in 2011. Not that you didn't already know all this.

well said.

No Kimi is not driving because [ insert your favorite driver ] can have a better shot at the WDC.

He extended his contract with Ferrari deal to 2010 in 2008. He was dissapointed to end his Ferrari the way he did. This has nothing to do with being pro or anti-Kimi, these are facts.

Maybe so , but why keep stating the facts over and over? What do you want to prove?
Ferrari didn't like him - fine !! He left in less than ideal circumstances ..

Doesn't mean he is a bad driver ..
Quite the contrary, many experts have already said that he was perhaps the fastest of all including all the modern greats.

Why shouldn't I be allowed to correct silly misconceptions? Because you don't like it? That's the impression I get anyway.

I wouldn't say that they didn't like him considering all the grooming di Montezemolo gave him in 2007 and 2008. Remember lines like "the Kimi everyone fears" and "he's still sleeping"? I've certainly not heard that kind of talk from him in regards to Ferrari's current number one driver, Alonso - maybe he doesn't feel the need to do so right now?

Who actually believes that anymore? Sure he might have gotten away with being called the fastest during his McLaren days... but really there's so much actual evidence of that simply not being the case nowadays. You'd have to be severely ignorant of other drivers and/or be completely infatuated with Kimi to believe it now.

I'm not saying he's bad at all. He's better than many other drivers in F1 right now. He'd be a vast improvement over the disaster that is known as Vitaly Petrov in the Renault team, for example.

Really well said. Anyone who states the facts in this thread is considered a hater. I really love the "don't come into our club" posts and then you see those same people attacking other drivers and teams in other threads.

Fact kimi 2007 wdc

Link?

Can't believe he said something like that.

It’s a paper edition. But Kulta seems to believe it (published less than an hour ago):
http://www.ts.fi/f1/uutiset/169416.html

Hah, what are these "facts" you ol' two are on about this evening? That Santander came in and wanted Spanish pilot and not have Kimi racing against him? No one is disputing that Santander had the will and the money to pull this off. But do you have "facts" about Kimi himself? We all know Ferrari chose Kimi over Alonso in 2007. And that Kimi easily beat Alonso every season since (and that if he hadn't had far and away most unreliable engine on grid entire career at McL then he would have easily won at least two other WDCs like 03 and 05 instead of Alonso). And we sure saw a lot of crap driving out of Alonso this year much worse than seen out of Kimi any season of his entire career.

Do tell what these "facts" are. Or better yet, knock off the incessant trolling and masquerading as something other than Kimi-resenters who always in Kimi threads trying to put him down.

Oh dear. I don't speak Finnish.

And also I don't understand why RB wants again pay money for Kimi and in the same time withdrawn from rally. And why they started negotiations only today.

hmm i was thinking along the lines with what we have:
we know webber has a contract with red bull for 2011 and vettel is contracted as well, if red bull really want to replace webber with raikkonen in 2012 then wouldn't it be a better idea to let him drive maybe with Toro Rosso? I know Kimi wants to drive only if he has a race winning car, but then again no one will know if 2012 RB car will be a race winning car.

My point being that surely a year spent in F1 is better preparation than another year wasted in WRC (just for fun?).

After all Red Bull owns both teams, so why not give him a seat at Toro Rosso? :/ no? but yea its hard to think that kimi will drive with the sort of pay that buemi or algu are taking.

I also don't speak Finnish, but it looks that article says more or less the same thing about Quesnel as it's written in Autosprint, and then it tells something very strange about Dani Sordo not getting a full season by Citroën.

The news coming from the rallies is that Räikkönen's managers have been negotiating with Red Bull's representatives for a while now.

As for the rest of the situation, yeah, it looks very weird. Whenever there's something signed, I suppose somebody will tell us.

If it's rally we'll heard this pretty soon from Kai.

Kaj? Isn’t he supposed not to say a word till he’s allowed to?

Is there any possibility to torture him so he tells us what’s going on? I promise not to tell the press.

Quesnel says that Kimi's and Red Bull's negotiations have been progressing well and that he expects him to stay in rally and at Citroen. It's pretty obvious that they've been negotiating for quite a while now.

And for what seat they are negotiating ? F1 or WRC?

Well, with Kimi's Red Bull/Citroen rally deal all but confirmed for 2011 a return to F1 in Red Bull's colours in 2012 is yet again a possibility...

Kulta simply repeating Autosprint news or he has his own insiders? A week ago RB withdrawn from WRC. Now negotiations has started and progressing.

Guess they are keeping both options open ...
Kimi has shown interest in F1 so that is not a problem at all.

Plus its hard to see Vettel & Webber driving together again in 2011.
Vettel leaving may as well be a possibility after such a crazy season where he lost a tailor made WDC.
Webber to Ferrari rumors are also gaining ground.
Anything is possible.

@neodin
I wouldn't call Autosprint a very reliable magazine, it is possible that they published an outdated information.

Kulta is a well connected and respected journalist so I doubt he would publish a fabricated quote. And besides even an imbecil realizes that at this time of the year the negotiations must be at an advanced stage already.

I didn't hear about that earlier.

I remember they had the headline "Ferrari's first podium in 2009", following Massa's podium in Germany and totally forgetting the it was Kimi who delivered the first podium to Ferrari that year.
That's how reliable this magazine is.

And Quesnel's quotes are not necessarily fabricated. They might just be old.

Ahem, it did not.
Red Bull just stopped sponsoring the drivers of Citroen Junior team.

They're all comparable. Every team has been hunting around for long-term sponsors and tying them down to multi-year deals. The situation that Williams is in is merely how bad things can get so I don't know why you think Ferrari are any different. The difference at Williams is that sponsors have dried up. Ferrari have now got a new major sponsor, but that came as part of a package deal.


I'm afraid no one can take you seriously if you think Formula 1 isn't the hard-headed business that it is. That's why Alonso is there and why Ferrari don't seem to care about the constructors' title and the money it brings, which no other team would even contemplate. If Raikkonen had brought someone like Nokia in as a sponsor and they had changed their corporate colours to red then he would still be there and he'd have all the front suspensions he could ever dream of.

It's laughable that people don't think this is what goes on and that they're trying to draw distinctions between what goes on at a 'top team' like Ferrari and teams down the grid who are all having to make more major financial sacrifices.


A feeble attempt at a play on words, but I'm afraid drivers are still pawns as they always have been. Not rooks and certainly not queens. What goes on is not dependant on certain peoples' ideas of the quality of the pieces no matter how much they would wish it to be so.

I think we all know that Webber will not be at the team next year regardless of what contracts Massa or Webber say that they have. The back-of-the-hand jokes are already doing the rounds about Alonso and Webber having the same manager.........

There will be a large inquest into why Red Bull haven't waltzed away this season regardless of the outcome, Adrian Newey will inevitably be involved in those discussions and the issue of driver errors and consistency will come up as well as how Renault can wangle themselves more horsepower. The rival teams all have experienced race winners and World Champions on board.

First there was Renault milking Kimi, then there was Mini. Now it's Citroën doing the same thing. Seriously unprofessional to talk about hyper-sensitive, mega-secretive Kimi negotiations during the season. Prrrrr

Wow, I've just discovered another world of delusion over on this thread. Kimi the fastest of all time being just one of a number of unhinged comments!

I guess I will get bile for not worshipping at his feet but please gain some PERSPECTIVE. Kimi was fast and fragile. I liked him for his individuality and sometimes frank honesty which was hilarious. Yes he was quick but part of the job is gathering a cohesive effort around you. Kimi's attention span was generally questionable but we can look back and enjoy some terrific drives, not the least, his last win at Spa in 2009.

RIP Kimi, best remembered as he was, not floundering around past his use-by date like someone else is this year!

Thanks for your synopsis of Kimi's career... Everyone entitled to opinion of course. But what are you talking about with the calling the thread "world of delusion"? Some people said some particular things that indicated belief he was good F1 driver to degree that you find objectionable? Just curious. Hyperlink or post number would probably be easiest.

No quotes from your recent posts 2ms, all pretty reasonable opinion. However my ridicule is reserved for things like;

#5523 "much better attitude towards F1"
#5530 "perhaps the fastest of all including the modern greats"
#5546 "hard to see Vettel and Webber driving together again in 2011"

All three pretty unsustainable opinions under a spotlight.

You don't have to like Webber to acknowledge his extraordinary dedication to fitness. Kimi's attitude to F1 was always in question from when he announced early in his career that one WDC would be enough for him. Sorry I remember it but can't reference the quote, winning an argument isn't that important. His resistance to sponsor events is legendary and hardly displays a serious work ethic in the business of F1 as opposed to driving a racecar. Being found skunked on Vodka or whatever - hey I don't have a problem with a young man doing alcohol bingeing, but a top sportsman?

Fastest of all is absurd for anyone to accept. Ignoring the spectre of how ridiculous it is to compare eras, of his era Montoya was quick in addition to MS and FA and well up for a stoush with Kimi, never mind looking at the extraordinary talents of Ayrton, Gilles or Clark, Fangio etc. Kimi wouldn't make the front page of 100 greatest of all time for speed or attitude! In the top 5 quickest of 2000-2010, I would certainly agree today but we don't yet know how quick Kubica or Rosberg are in a really good car. Both are making very ordinary cars look quite good and one is caning a 7xWDC teammate, why we don't yet know. After graduating from Sauber where Kimi was beaten in his rookie year by his teammate he inhabited only top teams, even if the reliability and so on weren't dominant stuff. From numerous seasons he produced a range of superb and ordinary and sometimes brainless.

Third point - why did Mark Webber get his contract extended mid-season and what is sufficient to change that, particularly if he becomes 2010 WDC? Hard to see the confidence of this opinion!

If it's OK to express an opinion then a thread is more interesting than a fan club. I suspect there's rather a lot of fanning around here. My school report for K Raikonnen would read;

Great natural ability and reflexes
Could achieve more if he took things more seriously
Needs to grow up before he discovers his best years have slipped away.
Thoroughly decent fellow who is almost universally liked by his classmates.
Grade B+

Yesterday evening, the TotalRally Radio broadcast was almost completely addressed to analyse Kimi’s performances during this season (compared his pace with Ogier’s 18 months ago and Colin said Kimi is faster), what he means for the championship (media attention) and the future thing (Citroën but, who pays for it?). Colin Clark outed himself as a very big Kimi fanboy, even if Kimi stops to talk with him only once or twice each rally (has Kimi not ran over him already a couple of times? ).

If somebody is interested you can download the podcast directly from their webpage: http://www.totalrally.com/

I know there’re a couple of Solberg’s fans who usually read this thread: they also talked about his future (Citroën’s offer and so on).

Kimi's manager Steve Robertson to MTV3 today: Kimi not returning to Formula 1 http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.s...2010/10/1213675

not really suprise there.

Some more than others... alot more.


You're absolutely right, it's not as if I was talking about their financial situation at all.

Listen, Ferrari have had and STILL have Marlboro as their title sponsor and Ferrari weren't struggling at all without Santander if you look at 2007 and 2008.


Well firstly, I never denied F1 being a big business at all, and secondly what makes you think I did?


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87784

? And here I thought teams like Williams and Ferrari were exactly the same, because I know a team like Williams would've loved to have been constructors champions since their last title in '97!

Perhaps they should've done that in the first place when they (Ferrari) signed with him, because all he did was cost the team 50 million dollars a year.

*writes front suspensions down on the list*

Well I've heard that Ferrari are trying to snap up Pastor Maldonado before Williams do so they can replace Massa and get even more munnies. Just a rumour though.


Why feeble? Massa has seemingly struggled with this new Queen relative to the old Rook.

Thanks! Really not big surprise (but I, nevertheless, like that news ). The guy has been repeating to whoever wanted to listen to him since Finland that he wanted to keep on rallying.

You dont' explain how............ No sunshine. Sponsorship has been thin on the ground for all the teams and isn't getting better. The ones at the bottom are simply coming under more obvious pressure.

Oh, and the Marlboro sponsorship will run its course through 2011 and its value has become extremely limited at a time when tobacco sponsorship has become ever more marginalised. Like I said, Ferrari needed a new long-term main sponsor where you can actually see their name that has value for at least the next five years. That's it succinctly.


Because you're feebly trying to arge to the contrary because of driver fanboyism. The rest of your comment is a load of claptrap frankly where you've tried to come up with something, any, response in the hope that someone will think you know what you're talking about.

There's been umpteen of these things and frankly I've grown tired of trying to translate Finnish that doesn't seem to have any quotes in it. It really doesn't tell anyone anything at all. Nothing will be done at all until January so they have to find some way of filling in the news.

Additionally, having run it through the Google translator we get this:


This is something Robertson came up with months ago - the 'Never say never' bit. There is absolutely nothing new in here and is merely rehashed old comments that aren't new made to look new by not actually providing quotes.

even I m getting tired a little.
I guess we should all agree to lock this thread until December.

Flyer, there’s a rally in 2 weeks!

Rumours flying round Spain say that things about Sordo and Solberg will be sorted out in the next 7-10 days. Räikkönen’s future may also be included in the same package, so perhaps you don’t have to wait until December.

Actually, there are several quotes and the article reads as if they came straight from the horse's mouth in an interview situation:

Captain Obvious (played by Steve Robertson) confirms he's negotiating a rally contract for Kimi for 2011 so there'll be no F1 comeback for at least a year:
"We're no longer looking into options in F1. Kimi seems to be focused on rallying at the moment."

Reporter wants to know if this means that Kimi's F1 career is dead and buried for good so Captain Obvious admits the obvious:
"Never say never but at the moment we're not looking at F1 [as an option]."

This week we've had news that Kimi might continue at Citroën after all. Captain Obvious can't confirm so he resorts to Platitudes 101 and offers this gem:
"Nothing's been decided yet. We'll tell when we have something to tell. At the moment, nothing's been signed. We're negotiating with several teams but I can't be more specific than that [yet]."

I think the message is fairly clear; Kimi's F1 boat has sailed and he's not on it (but we already knew that). And, really, for the love of doG, it's been a year - how much more of this do we really need before we get the hint?!?

Rally we can discuss better in the WRC thread and all we do in this thread is talk Kimi's comeback.

Someone puts in a random quote ,
another translates it from somewhere ,
till someone else comes up with better translation and
then someone suggests it was out of context.
Finally we decide the quote was out of date to begin with.

A bit of a time waste IMO but fun sometimes ... I am a bit tired of this as of now. Will come back later tho.

there is three direct quotes in that news:

- we are no longer checking seats from formula 1. Kimi seems to be focused on rally at the moment, Robertson said.


and when asked will he stay permanetly out of f1 and not just next season, Robertson said the following:

- never say never but at the moment we are not looking in to Formula 1 no more.

in what team would Kimi drive in wrc next year, Robertson said:

-nothing is decided yet, we will announce when we have. at the moment nothing is signed, we are having discussion with several teams but I can't tell more about those.

So what about the teams that already have massive bucks coming to them?


It wouldn't be accurate to call the partnership between Ferrari and the Marlboro brand as a mere sponsorship deal, no, it's more of an association. Philip Morris actually benefits a great deal from being associated with Ferrari on their cigarette packets. So why isn't the Marlboro name on the car? Simple. Ferrari sell certain areas of space of their cars to Philip Morris which in turn sells the space to Ferrari's other sponsors - Santander included as we see on the rear wing which used to have Marlboro branding.

Marlboro are STILL title sponsors of Scuderia Ferrari - there is still hundreds of millions of dollars coming from the company to the Ferrari team which dwarfs the amount of sponsorship money Santander are currently giving to Ferrari.


I've been accused of all sorts... whatever.

No one has had guaranteed big bucks coming to them as their current deals have wound down. That's why teams have tried to align themselves with major sponsors and get them on multi-year deals because they know how difficult it is to get new ones in. It doesn't seem to be sinking in that no one has been immune.


Errrrrrrrrrrrrr, no. Tobacco advertising is banned in a great many countries and why the barcode stuff had to go the journey earlier this season and really why the deal is simply winding down. That's why they're not to be found on the car these days. They have designated areas on the car assigned to them that they could sell on but haven't, which is why you see areas like the engine cover empty. That ludicrous situation obviously cannot continue.


Like I said, that will end conclusively in 2011 as it has been winding down over the past few years because of the tobacco advertising situation. Santander are the future of Ferrari sponsorship in the years to come as the Marlboro era ends. Ferrari must keep them happy. That central point doesn't seem to be sinking in.....................


You're trying every which way but loose to try and say that Santander are not central to Ferrari's sponsorship future, and by association, that Alonso wasn't signed as part of a commercial deal and we've gone around a lot of houses in a desperate attempt to say that wasn't so and that they don't really need Santander. That clearly isn't the case.

I'm sorry, but there are no quotes whatsoever from Robertson in that article. Its a bullet pointed list of things rehashed from the past few months. I have no idea why you're trying to quote these phrases because there are no quote marks in the article.


There is nothing there about 2011. That's simply been a standard line used by many over the past few months. I even think it might have come from Christian Horner or someone because having your manager say "...seems to be focused on rallying at the moment" is a pretty odd thing to say. But then, Robertson is not directly quoted in that article.


Like I said, this 'Never say never' comment is a rehashed Robertson quote that is months old:

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/19144.html


That's where this comes from. That's from 2nd June in an article that doesn't rule out Formula 1.

The article is extremely questionable even translated from Finnish. There's nothing there, sorry. Seriously, do people not actually do any reading?

And some are obviously more immune to others, like Williams who has four sponsors leaving them at the end of the season which individually didn't contribute a whole lot but together they did.

You're not being funny at all so stop it.

We saw Lucky Strike leave Honda after 2006, West left McLaren after 2005, Mild Seven left Renault after 2006, and then we have Marlboro which is still title sponsor for Ferrari. Spot the difference. Ferrari have been getting away with recieving tobacco money for years now, let's not pretend this is anything new.

Like I said, the association of Ferrari F1 cars on Marlboro cigarette packets is enough to justify the Altria-Philip Morris group giving out 280-something million dollars to Ferrari every year which makes Santader's money look like peanuts in comparison. Do you think Santander will be able to replace the sheer amount of cash Ferrari are currently recieving from tobacco money? Unlike what was speculated last year, Santander has NOT become title sponsor for Ferrari and the deal was signed last year so we can only assume that the current level of money Ferrari are recieving from the bank will continue to 2014. Marlboro has not dissapeared, cigarettes will not dissapear.


It's sad how you believe Raikkonen was signed for his talent alone by Ferrari yet you can't muster the courage to admit the same with Alonso with or without Santander. You compare a team and a brand which is in a perfectly healthy financial situation to one that simply isn't and is looking to be forced to sign a mediocre GP2 driver who's had very little results to show but has major sponsorship backing.

You are using google translator? As a native Finnish speaker I think that article is quite clear -> no more F1 and that's it. Unless sky is falling down.

With all due respect, are you for real? You seriously want to imply that your understanding of a language you admit you don't even speak is so much better than ours (us being a bunch of native speakers) that you feel comfortable ridiculing our reading comprehension skills? Seriously?!? Those bullet points are quotes! That's a stylistic convention used in journalism, literature etc. here. I made a point of adding the quotation marks (") because I wanted to make sure everyone was clear that they really are quotes. Because they are! You will not find a Finnish speaker who will tell you otherwise. MTV3 as a source may be a bit suspect at times but they do not routinely make up entire interviews and that piece of news makes it very clear they spoke directly to Steve Robertson - and not months ago either. I know you don't want it to be true but that doesn't change what the article says.

But it's a fact and there's nothing joyful or sad about it. Kimi brought zero sponsors with him. Alonso brought Santander and Santander money is the reason Kimi is not driving this season.