He drove a great race in 71 in a BRM, with the cloest race in F1 history, but is it safe to assume that considering he scored only 2 points besides that victory his entire F1 career, that it was just a fluke?

Anyone got any more info on Gethin's career?

Peter spent the better part of his career being in the wrong place at the wrong time, with the only exception being that day at Monza. That day, Peter drove a very smart race for a team that was always spreading itself a little thin. One win wonder? Maybe, but the win was no fluke.

Such were the slipstreaming contests at Monza in those days, that in '71 either Gethin, Cevert, Peterson, or Hailwood could easily have crossed the line first. Ever see a picture of those cars crossing the finish line? The first three are abreast, staggered somewhat, with Hailwood a bit behind. Certainly in '67 Big John used some strategy to come beat Brabham to the line, but many of those Monza races were crap shoots.

I believe it was also '71 that Amon was in the lead group when his visor came off.

Well...I am at work now and need to do some of that soon...I don't remember much of the details of that race. It does seem that apart from this win (which I think is still the fastest GP ever), Mr. Gethin didn't achive much in either F1 or Can Am...a more thorough analysis would be interesting. Maybe later.

Dave

Peter was a famous F5000 competitor (European F5000 in 1969 and fore-runner in 1975). He won the 1973 race of Champions in a CHevron B24 Chevrolet F5000 beating all the F1 competitors (Hulme was second and Hunt third). I speak a little bit about him in the topic 1969 Madrid GP.

More about him later as I'm leaving my computer for minimum 3 days...

Peter Gethin was a great driver. He drove formula one (and proved himself in other categories in so getting there) and won a Grand Prix. Many really fine drivers never won even one GP (and for that matter many first rate drivers never made it in to a seat in a GP car). So what is the inference in asking if his win at Monza was a fluke? I must be missing something here.

There are many reasons for such to happen. Some really good drivers had lucked out when it came to choosing teams, a change of formula when they were coming good, even conflicts within a team. Surtees, surely, would have been a double champion had he not had his blue with Ferrari in 66, which would have left Brabham (a) keener than ever to beat Hulme in 67, and (b) still in the game such a long time after his last title win.
Sadly, too many have died before realising their promise.
Not forgetting that a car may have had a frailty one year that has put it our of race after race. Many reasons.

Here's the finish of the race (from left: Bonnier, Gethin, Hailwood, Peterson, Cevert, Ganley):



On the last corner Cevert was ahead and left his braking very late, so Peterson did the same and got very sideways (ie. even more than usual!!). Peterson was also trying very hard to shut out Hailwood. This let Gethin come through to win. It was BRM's second win in a row, so can hardly be called 'lucky' - 'opportunistic' is probably a better word. Amon (sporting a beard) had been leading quite a bit until he had problems with fuel vaporisation. Peterson had a broken exhaust pipe which was costing 300 rpm, and both he and Cevert were disappointed not to win.

Great finish! Bring back the slipstreaming circuits! Especially Longford...

I have to echo Mike. I always thought Gethin a pretty good driver. In 1970, he had a difficult situation thrust upon him when Gurney had to leave the McLaren team after the fuel companies couldn't agree to terms for Gurney to continue. I spoke briefly with him about it at Road Atlanta and came away impressed with him as a person.

I never considered his win a fluke. He did a great job and it was his Day.

One of my reasons for avoiding most of the comings & goings of F1 in recent years is this amazing absorption with only The Chosen and screw the rest of the folks on the grid -- they are merely scenary and disposable it seems to all the 'f1 fans.'

Without the Peter Gethins and the Ian Rabys and the Dorino Serafinis and the George Eatons of the racing world, it would be a much, much poorer place for their absence from the grids.

Perhaps it is just me, but I think it takes a lot to make the grid of a race in a major series past or present. Just as lot of folks want to and try to talk the talk, it is the walking the walk that separates the sheep and the goats.

I remember reading the wire report that Gethin had won and I was so happy for him! I only wish there had been more.

From Ronnie Peterson's point of view:

"One of my exhausts was broken and the engine did not give enough power. It was harder for me to do my slip-stream taktics, the idea being to stay in the vacuum after Lesmo down to the Parabolicca and then throw the car out for the last corner and on to the finish straight. But I was not alone with those plans, both Cevert and Gethin braked very late. Gethin tried to pass me on the inside, he came with locked brakes and with the right wheels out on the grass.
Cevert probably saw the situation in his mirrors and made an avoiding manouver. For the first time in 55 laps I took the wrong line into the corner and with less engine power that Gethin I was forced to throw my car close behind his BRM in a last attempt to use his slip-stream to pull up beside him just before the line. I almost succeded. Peter won by a 1/100 second! Had the line been 10-15 meters further forward I would had been the winner."

From "Ronnie!" by Ronnie Peterson. (1971) (My free translation)

Recently saw an interview with Howden Ganley, in which he said that Chris Amon tried to pull a tear-off strip off, but accidentally pulled the whole visor off, and had to retire.

He also said that at Monza, in that race, he only had to brake at two places (Parrabolica and Lezmo 2, I think), and he could take the rest of Monza pretty much flat out. How amazing is that? It's almost like a CART race!

Raymond: I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if any of those folks on the Readers Commnents forum who were bellyaching about the "meaningless" passes at the last CART race know about the slipstreaming battles at Monza and Hockenheim during this period.

Probably not.

At the Coy's Festival in 1999, I took my Nigel Roebuck/Michael Turner book of F1 paintings in the hope of getting some signatures on relevant pages.
I was lucky! I got Moss on the '61 Monaco picture; Beltoise on the '72 Monaco picture; Brooks on a Vanwall; Brabham winning in Portugal, but where, I thought will I get Peter Gethin to sign?

There was no reproduction of Monza '71 in the book. Thinking quickly, I found a lovely picture of Ronnie, opposite-locking the ugly March 711 through the Casino Square at Monaco. I held the book in front of Peter, saying "You are not actually in this book, but you beat him at Monza, so I think this would be a good place for you to sign, please."
He thought that very funny and signed with good grace. A thouroughly nice man, and very deserving his win that day in Italy, I believe. Anyone COULD have won, but Peter did!

What a lovely story. I never knew too much about Gethin but I am fairly sure there is no such thing as a fluke win in F1. What terrible irony in the account from Peterson's perspective. Little did he know that 10 or 15 meters...and seven years...up the road he would meet his maker. All of the drivers in the picture were truly heroic and each deserved to be there.

Mo

Here's some excellent footage unearthed by 'nmansellfan'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3TrU4xe_ic

Stunning footage. Real motor racing on a great circuit.

Does anybody have the Motor Sport report of the race? If memory serves me right, DSJ made succinct character descriptions of the participants

I think Peter Gethin was a great driver.
He won F1, F2, F5000, CanAm, SP2L (in this class at the SPWC).
How many drivers have such a "curriculum" ?
He was always fast !

André Acker.

Gethin also won the Race of Champions in a F5000 Chevron, beating the few F1 cars in the race

OT and FAO of Alan Cox. The picture on the cover of the October 1971 Motor Sport is of the Ed Swart/John Burton Canon Chevron B19

Thanks Alan - not bad remembering from nearly 40 years ago. Shame I can't remember yesterday nearly as well!

DSJ's report is interesting of course (weren't they all?), but I was surprised to see Pete Gethin described as 'a Londoner'. Pete was born in Ewell in Surrey, how can I be sure about this? Easy, a relative lived just down the road. I agree with most of what's been said about PG, near the top of the second rank in my opinion, and a good bloke as well, but similar to Denny in that he was at his best in powerful cars like the M8. Impossible to be certain, but looking at the dates, it's just possible that he could have been sitting in one of 'my' seats on that day at Monza.

I concur with your rating. Gethin was undoubtedly underestimated by the others at Monza and his achievements not properly credited today. He held off Fittipaldi to win the shortened Victory Race at Brands, also in 1971, was a frequent winner in the Chevron F5000 (Church Farm Racing?) and, as already mentioned, won a later Race of Champions at Brands in the Chevron by outlasting the F1 cars.

Monza 1971 was our first foreign GP and we were at the exit of the Parabolica onto the start/ finish straight. The pandemonium following the race and the rush for the coach back to the UK meant that we didn't know that Gethin had won until we bought a L'Equipe in France on the Monday morning.

Peter's father was a successful jockey, so one could argue that timing a sprint to the line from a squabbling pack was inbred in him


PAR

Of course, if Amon's visor had not come off, Peter would have had a dandy distant second place.

Yes, and Pete was built like a jockey himself. You'd have got pretty good odds on him before the race.

Here is a picture of Peter a few years ago at a Ferrari Track Day held at the scene of his 1971 victory......



....... also pictured is another single race GP winner and me ( Who was of course quick enough to win numerous GPs but never got the chance )

I get the chance to appear on TNF as it is my 2,000 post


PAR

Jochen Mass.

Blimey you've all got hair

No. Something else would have gone wrong - because it always did.

There isn't a lot underneath Pete's cap.

That's most unfair of you Rob! Peter is quite an intelligent chap, I'll have you know!

Note the Stanleys on the rostrum when the silver was being handed over to Peter Gethin in that Youtube clip.

Fluke! Anyone who steers a tub of fuel around Monza at 150-160 mph for two hours or so fighting wheel to wheel with his peers and beats them all to the chequered flag is a hero in my book. To describe this as a fluke is an insult to Gethin and all those who have passed the flag first.

To win, first you must finish.

I have vivid memories of the Stanleys wandering around the Oulton pits at a couple of F1 meetings They conducted themselves like royalty, and I was surprised that they were never run over; it was more luck than judgement I can tell you! They reminded me of characters off Spitting Image!!!

Retriever, I couldn't agree more; this was a superb performance from a very good driver. This newly unearthed YouTube clip goes someway to showing how impressive Gethin was that day, although we miss the period when, well-behind the squabbling leaders, he gradually reels them in. I wasn't particularly trying to revive the title of this thread, rather looking for a home for 'Mansellfan''s find that people would see. Yes, I noticed the Stanleys climbing up - they looked just as imposing when I saw them nearly thirty years later at the BRM celebration in Bourne.
After Gethin crosses the line, can I hear the voice of Anthony Marsh in the background? Oh, and whatever DSJ thought, I didn't see Gethin's last corner move particularly as particularly unruly...and I'm sure Clay Regazzoni didn't mean to jump the start either!

I'm not sure where I read this story, and I may not be remembering it quite correctly, but it goes something like this:

After the post-race party Peter and the Stanleys were driving back to their hotel when one of the tyres went flat. Dealing with such a problem was obviously beneath the Stanleys' dignity, so Gethin, the hero of the hour, had to get out (in the rain?) and do all the work changing the wheel himself, while the Stanleys sat in regal splendour watching their hireling earn his keep.

Tim quite correct...... when Peter tells the story he of course has a young lady waiting for him back at the hotel


PAR

I agree with Dons sentiment. There is such a dreadfull falacy about 'bad drivers' who are 'not worthy to win'. You can be of the opinion that Button isn't as good as Hamilton, or that Gethin was not as good as Hulme or Peterson... but to call these victories a fluke... The car defines so much of your possibilities in motorracing, you must be and very good and very lucky to end up in Formula 1, let alone end up in car that is worthy of winning.

And beyond that: didn't Gethin BEAT those drivers all swarming around them? He did not inherit the win because four cars in front of him crashed in the Parabolica, did he?

Many thanks to Mansellfan for the link - amazing! As far as I'm concerned anyone who won that race would have been a 'worthy' winner.

Thanks for the confirmation, Phil - I suspect he had a young lady in every hotel, didn't he?

Too many present-day fans just study the Formula 1 World Championship record book and draw duff conclusions from its very blinkered view of racing. An example of that is today's F1 returnees feature on the 'Autosport' home page...

Peter Gethin's Monza win was absolutely NOT a fluke. It was deserved. Interestingly, his team-mate Howden Ganley reckons he had that race sewn-up until his luck ran out. A win for him wouldn't have been a fluke, either. Vittorio Brambilla's Austrian GP win in the March? Maybe that would come closer to qualifying as "a fluke".

DCN

Even twins in some instances...

The only race I can think of that I would consider to even remotely be a 'fluke' would be Revson's 73 Canadian GP win, and then only because of the wet/dry timing mess. To this day I don't think that anyone really knows just who won that one. Brambilla may have lucked into his one win, but he proved several times that year he was quick in a car that wasn't exactly the class of the field.

I think we can all agree that to win any race, you have to put yourself in the best position to take advantage of any thing that happens to the other front runners.

I can think of better candidates. Sandro Nannini's victory in Japan 1989 (by disqualification of racewinner Senna) and Elio de Angelis, Imola 1985 (by disqualification of Prost). Ofcourse they had to be THERE in the right spot as well, but they had no chance to win untill luck decided otherwise. In that respect: perhaps you can find a lot flukes when you watch all the Grand Prix that Chris Amon led... and lost by bad luck.