Massa is good in those tracks but Alonso is pretty good in Bahrain. Victories '05 & '06.


This is how I see which driver is better in which track(if no name = equal):

1 Bahrain - Massa (Good track for both of them, but I think Massa has slight advantage)
2 Australia - Alonso (ALO 1st '06, 2nd '07, 4th '08 and 5th '09, Massa crahes most of the time)
3 Malaysian - Alonso (Alonso always does great here)
4 China -
5 Spain - Alonso (Alonso has always finished points in here except 01(Minardi) and 08(engine), Massa also is pretty good here)
6 Monaco - Alonso (Two time winner)
7 Turkey - Massa (Massa always good here)
8 Canada -
9 Valencia - Massa (Massa raced here once and won the race)
10 Britain -
11 Germany -
12 Hungary - Alonso (Pole last year, victory 03 and magnificent drive 06)
13 Belgium -
14 Italia -
15 Singapore - Alonso (Massa drove nicely '08, but Alonso has done great two times with slower car(No Singapore 2008 debate!))
16 Japan -
17 Korea - don't know
18 Brazilia - Massa (No stopping Massa in Brazil)
19 Abu Dhabi - (Alonso has advantage since he has raced here)

Feel free to post your versions

really shame you seam to forget how little money Ferrari really make and given the recent economic climate i am certain a large amount of money put under Ferrari's nose with a demand about alonso has far more to do with what happened than not.

I think having the car developed more towards him helped him a lot more. You have a agenda to push and thats praise MS, I remember some feedback MS gave to Kimi during a race and it ended up with destroying his race.

You have a agenda to push and thats Dis MS, There were no race were MS gave feedback to Kimi and which destroyed his race...kindly give examples with sources.

I'm sooo glad "the owl" won't interfere with Ferrari next season any way whatsoever. That may well turn out the biggest benefit of this whole comeback-story.

I think that both Abu Dhabi and Korea are tracks that will suit Massa to the grind, with hard braking zones, where commitment on the pedal is the most important thing. Just like Valencia and Singapore. Massa's drive on the latter track prior to the SC and the pitstop was as great as you'll ever see on a street track, so I think they'll be closely matched there. Canada is one of Massa's bogey tracks, left clueless to Michael back in 2006, and following that up by being outqualified by Kimi both in 2007 and 2008 (not many tracks Kimi managed to do that on, not even Spa). Alonso outqualified Massa there in 2008, and was running ahead in the race prior to the SC in his inferior Renault. So clear advantage for Alonso there.

As for Hungary I recall a perfect drive by Massa back in 2008 on that very track, and that makes it hard to judge who will have the upper hand there. Of course, it's among Alonso's favourites, but Massa's misfortune there defies belief. Italy should be Alonso all the way, though. He's driven magnificent races there the last three years, while Massa has yet to break into the top five, and has never qualified on the front row there. Massa hasn't driven Suzuka since 2006, but back then Alonso looked more convincing. I think he'll have the edge there once more. Before discounting Massa's chances in Monaco, remember that both of these drivers have been polesitters there. As for China, Massa has never been fast in

Bahrain = Massa
Australia = Alonso
Malaysia = Alonso (just)
China = Alonso
Spain = Even
Monaco = Alonso (just)
Turkey = Massa
Canada = Alonso (large margin)
Valencia = Massa
Britain = Alonso (just)
Germany= Even
Hungary = Even
Belgium = Even
Italy = Alonso
Singapore = Even
Japan = Alonso
Korea = Massa (just)
Brazil = Massa
Abu Dhabi = Massa

By the looks of things Alonso has an 8-6 advantage, but there are five races where the momentum really is up for grabs, and that's where Massa really has to deliver. Don't be surprised if Alonso builds up quite an advantage in the first half, because Massa has lots of favourite tracks late in the season, and there are quite a few tracks by then where they've impressed me equally previously.

That's what I expect to happen, assuming that Kimi is indeed only a tiny percentage slower than Fernando. We don't know for certain yet.

Uhhh, prepare for the backlash over that one...

As for the tracks thingy, I don't think it matters that much. The intra-team battle at Ferrari will be won or lost in the heads of the drivers.

Another factor to consider with the very limited testing now available to the teams, is that initially the advantage may be slightly more in Massa's favour than Alonso's as he will already be used to Ferrari's systems and the car is currently being developed with his race engineers input while I would assume Alonso will have had very little or minimal input into the car. So for the opening races at least there could be some small advantage on Massa's side especially if the Ferrari is a totally different prospect to drive than what Alonso is used to. It certainly is going to be an interesting year to see how they match up against each other and how it will pan out.

It will be a totally new car for Massa aswell.

I think Schumacher's leaving for another team will put a final stamp of closure on an era for Ferrari. Alonso won't have him looking over his shoulder, as Kimi did, and Massa will lose his mentor.

This should work to Alonso's advantage, and encourage the whole team to rally around the future.

He does need to make a good start though.

A shame? Ok.

Anyways, be certain all you like, but you're really just guessing.

I'd say its fairly common sense that Ferrari hired Alonso for his ability, not for his money. After all, Alonso *is* one of the highest(or actual highest) rated drivers by not only the fans, but also in the paddock.

Not to forget the real Tifosi at Imola 2007 cheering for Alonso in a McLaren. Ferrari have been wanting Alonso for many years and at many different levels.

Bahrain Alonso was able to beat Massa in at least and equal car and Turkey he was able to get between Massa and Schumacher in a slower car and prevent team orders taking place.

I wouldnt give those tracks so easily to Massa, they are atleast even if you give room for characteristics suiting the tracks.

there was no race at Imola in 2007

I agree with you that Alonso was splendid at Bahrain and Turkey back in 2006, but he's been looking a bit uncomfortable on those ever since. In 2007, Hamilton thrashed him on both tracks as Massa won, and in 2008 and 2009 he was so badly handicapped by machinery that no fair assessment of his performance can be properly made.

The point is, however, that Alonso (just like Kimi) is more of a race specialist. Both Lewis and Felipe may be faster on Saturdays, but when it comes to saving tyres et cetera, Alonso is just marvellous. Looking at the stats from the last two years, Piquet and Grosjean occasionally came close in qualifying, but were more often than not a minute or so back when the race itself was done. Also in 2007, Alonso had some remarkable race performances, notably in Malaysia where he beat Lewis by 20 seconds, but also Silverstone and Nürburgring (where he hang on to Massa despite an inferior car in the dry).

That said, I'm not so sure that Alonso will have the upper hand on Felipe in qualifying, but if the tyres are so fragile that most drivers need two stops in 2010, Alonso could surely make it on one. If the tyres are harder than this year, Alonso will have an advantage in qualifying, since especially Felipe has looked dependant on the softer tyres to make a lap work out. Fernando uses to find grip on the hards as well, which could very well work out to his advantage.

One thing that is quite logical and clear is that tyres go off quicker with a heavy fuel load. Managing them during the first half of the race (on a track that's not always rubbered-in) will be key, and looking at Lewis's tyre management from wet races compared with Fernando, I'm almost sure that Fernando can afford to be closer to the ragged edge on the opening laps. Overtaking a few people every now and then in those situations wouldn't be unthinkable, even if the Ferrari wouldn't be quick enough. I guess Jenson Button could do the same.

I think he's talking about Monza, but you are right

In his dreams

But anyway... don't forget.

Alonso is the better driver. Massa can be as fast as him in 5 or 6 circuits. The real question here is IF Ferrari will give Alonso a number one status or not.

And you know this how?

Odd one from a usually reliable source in twitter - RUMORS COMING FROM SPAIN SUGGEST THAT KUBICA AGREED TO REPLACE MASSA FOR THE FIRST 3 RACES.

It's Spain's equivalent to April Fools' Day today, so it's pretty much bollocks.

ah, okay, thanks

Some other spanish source said today that NP bought 15% of Campos

Nicely put.Kimi's performances in the later half of 2008 and early 2009 as compared to Massa's performance seems to be the main reason for the sacking.The only reason Kimi is out of Ferrari is due to Massa and Massa alone.Santander were just the means to an end.Lets be honest -his performance during the above time frame were downright painful and he was a WDC as well.More was expected and not delivered.

Alonso -a pay driver

Does that mean Kimi is a pay driver as well? His rally seat is down to his personal sponsor Red Bull, is it not?

Doesn't mean it was Raikkonen's mistake, though. It's not unusual for someone to commit a mistake, and feel not satisfied with the other person. It happens with setbacks and failure. Dyer had clearly stated that it was Ferrari's mistake referring to the suspension problem that was the root cause for the whole thing. Even Schumacher accepts that much in a BBC interview. But people do want they want to do, and if they have money all the more power to them. In the end, one is better off not being at a place that is not loyal to you.

Who knows? There may be a reason why no one from Ferrari can openly state that it was Raikkonen's mistake that the results were not good during mid-season in 2008. Bizarre, isn't it? The Robertsons and Raikkonen would probably sue the hell out of Ferrari, since the involved parties would clearly know whose mistake it was. Raikkonen clearly says that much. Perhaps, Ferrari would not have been able to stop Kimi driving for them in 2010 unless Kimi himself accepts to do so.

i am sure we seen this but it makes me laugh this does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjknmNdvrM

alonso and massa argument -these two have "history" lolz

If SD inisists on no team favourites/status, why did he talk Alonso being able to beat Schumi, and not Massa? Me thinks Alonso is already moulding the team. The number of times the words "Alonso" and "No1" appear in all media these days is interesting. Massa needs a PR plan, and one that doesn't make him look stupid.

He was talking about Alonso beating Schumacher in 2006 in a slower car. Massa has not beaten Schumacher, but he was a defunct #2 driver supporting Schumacher in 2006, so he never had the chance.

Yeah ok, but he is referring to Alonso's chances this year too.

Yawn

If he signed Alonso is because he expects him to be better than Massa or any other title contender. One thing is expecting Alonso to beat Massa and another one is helping him to achieve that.

newbie in autosport forum here...so please forgive if not really following the threads...
just wanted to say that in my opinion there will be kind of war here:
-Alonso is one of the best drivers of the past decade, he's fast, intelligent, a fighter, gets everything of his car and more and delivers when it's needed...
-Massa was kind of next Kimi when he started...then was a bit disapointing...then grew to almost match (and sometimes be better) than MS...then comparison to kimi is 1/1...so he's kind of as fast as 2 World championip leaders...even in a very good car (except 2009)...

So we have 2 fast very talented (and hot latinos) drivers there for next year...so what will happen...they both think they're number ?
a) alonso is clearly better, gets the team behind and proves that last experiences (Last Renault and McLaren) were not sucessful not because of him
b) massa is clearly betterand then many judgements have to be revised
c) they are kind of even and we get back to the Hamilton/Alonso situation there is no better driver...at least in the team...and they eat themselves...there is no new MS or AS ...SV wins and will stay for long...
d) Ferrari continues to be worse and worse...both drivers drive for new 2010 entering teams in 2011...

Anyhow it clearly appears that from the last pictures I've seen FA is presented as new MS and that FM does not like it...will be interesting play ... I guess...

What is this "thing" Alonso speaks of that happened between him and Massa in 2007? i cant remember.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjknmNdvrM

A little public spat after their incident at Nürburgring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egWx6rbtO-8...feature=related

heh, oh yea i forgot about that, its nothing, funny tho

Massa 2 x Alonso 0

Felipe Can't wait till the race hits youtube.

Lobato says that in the kart race Alonso was in front of Massa until the clutch failed.

And the results from the ski:

1- Fisichella 37s
2.- Alonso 40s
3.- Massa 45s

Does ski counts? 2 x 1 if so.

Does a Fiat Panda count?

Of course it counts!

After that, clutch failure:

Nice pass! Reminds me of Germany 2007

The first race, in Panda 4x4 cars, was won by Felipe Massa and the Brazilian was joined on the podium by Ducati Marlboro MotoGP stars Casey Stoner and Nicky Hayden, with Fernando Alonso crossing the line fourth ahead of Giancarlo Fisichella.

The second was a go-kart race dominated from start to finish by Hayden, who shared the podium champagne with Massa and Stoner, with Alonso unable to make the finish after crashing into the protective barriers.

source: motogp


oh dear poor fernando the "best driver in the world" didn't quite work this time...

i know it is stupid to argue about this, but man, some people here really hate Alonso.
FYI the "best driver in the world" started the race 3rd and was running 1st until the clutch failed

"Things have started extremely well," said Massa. "We've already started to speak a lot about the car and what to do to have a competitive car.

"I've spoken more to Fernando now than in three years with Kimi.

"Perhaps this is not difficult because Kimi, of course, did not like to speak much. But I also worked extremely well with Kimi, even without speaking.

"I think we can have a very good relationship and we can work extremely well together. We need to work well together otherwise it will not be positive for either of us or for the team. So I really don't think there will be a fire.




I think Massa is being kind to Kimi by saying he did not speak much. Kimi did not even contact Massa after his accident. I think Kimi was aloof and arrogant. Contrary to what many think, Massa and Alonso would get on super.

To be entirely fair to Kimi I understand that it is just his personality that he is quiet and introverted, I don't think it has anything to do with arrogance. Some people are just naturally like that. I do think having someone a bit more loquacious and forward will be a good thing though, someone who is not afraid to say what they think and push the team hard...

If I was a team-mate to someone who crashed really badly, I'd at least go to hospital to say hello to his family and just show my support. Unfortuantely, neither Irvine or Räikkönen seem to have to big empathy for other people...

He just spun and crashed. It's going to be a long season for Alonso's fans and the spanish press.