I was right again.

Oh, so "Boullier's shortlist" was indeed just something you made up yourself.

At least that clarifies for me whether to take your posts as fact or opinion if they aren't backed up by a source.

I created that list from information I had and figured that it was most certainly those 5 people in contact with Renault. I found out that Sato was linked to the Renault team yesterday and this is why I put him on the 5 man list with the other 4 drivers. I did put a source in another thread somewhere to back it up.

If people think i'm bullshiting then that's their choice but i'll tell you and everyone else that I don't make things up in my head just to see what people write as a response, like some people on here might do.

Edit:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/tra...tSMg0kBfbDro7tQ



Parts in bold show 5 man list and that top two are Heidfeld and Sato, this makes me right about the list I posted earlier.

Can somebody give me at least one reason, why they even considering Sato if they can have Nick?

BTW: robracer - you forgot JV in your list.

He isn't in the list

On yours yes, but how do you knew JV isn't on Boullier's list?

Nick is their man. With Kubica and Heidfeld Renault will be a very solid team. With Sato, well we will have fun.

except racing...

I'm sorry if I came across the wrong way, but the way you stated it made me think that it was a definite fact that could be backed up by a source. If you'd had said that it was your opinion based on what you've seen, which is what it really was and we all see now after clarification, then we all would have commented on it as such (most likely saying we agree with you, because looking at it now I certainly do) rather than asking for a source.

Again, sorry if I came across the wrong way.

Nick and Kubica... what an absolute bore that would be. Like BMW for the last 3 years....

It will be good for renault to move on from the past, Kubica is a good replacement for Alonso, now it's up to their technical team to get them into the hunt. It'll be good if they are a surprise for the season.

If Nick and Kubica would be a boring pairing then we wouldn't have this endless kub-hei flamewars during the last 3 years

What about mixed tires, forgeting of putting fuel into car, blowing up engines and other reliability problems, Kubica's attempt to park car into Tulli rear? Weren't it funny? I would say that BMW was the most "special" team on the grid Certainly you couldn't saw it in McLaren.

The only thing that Sato would bring to F1 would be a rejuvination of the sport in Japan. He was the only Japanese driver they really supported.

According to GPWeek online magazine.

Well im still hoping Villeneuve gets the ride along side Kubica.
I think he has a good shot. Im sure its between Heidfeld and JV for the second seat.
I know people like to bash Jacques, but im sure without the electronic aids and with slick tires and a good car he would be a very strong competitor, better than Nick. He's fired up and worked hard on his fitness..
Villeneuve brings much more media interest too.. Nick is just... well Nick... as exciting as watching paint dry.

I think Kobayashi have the potential to make an F1-hype in Japan.

And about JV, I think that is the only alternative to Nick.

Tract1on, while I respect your enthusiasm for JV, is there anything solid which suggests Villeneuve is even being considered by Renault?

I've read nothing to say there is.

Thinking about it though, the entire time JV was uncompetitive was when he was on grooved tires, a situation he wasn't used to.

Put him on slicks and there's likely to be some difference, though I wouldn't expect the same drives from 1997.

It would take a dominant car.

That's a common perception. Others will tell you his best seasons (not point wise, performance-wise) were around 1999-2001. "best of the rest" in that p.o.s. BAR...

Still can't see him come back in 2010, no matter how much I'd like it to happen.

JV update:

http://www.confidential-renault.fr (google translate) :

Jacques Villeneuve has still not lost hope of returning to F1 in 2010, if one believes his remarks, reported by ruefrontenac.com. Reached by telephone by the Canadian press, the 1997 world champion said to have two main tracks at present.

"I work on two issues that deepened rapidly," explains, he explained. "It is certain that time is running more, but I do not despair. Things are still moving very fast and there are still a few seats. "

We think of course the second bucket free at Renault F1, and recent statements by Eric Bouiller, newly appointed Team Manager. The French want to place alongside Robert Kubica a proven, capable of pushing the Polish by offering the challenge of a strong second driver. Jacques Villeneuve could correspond to these expectations, as well as other active pilots. Moreover, the acquisition by Genii capital company with which Jacques has worked, might suggest that the new management considers it a significant candidate for next year. However, Villeneuve is not illusion, and wants things are clear: he will not play the piston.

"Sure we talk often, as we talked often before they take their seats at Renault, said Villeneuve. However, the friendship has little to do with the selection Driver and rightly so. I do not want a wheel because I know the boss. I want to be assigned because the officers and crew are also convinced me that we will go faster together. This is the only way to develop a successful team. "

Despite these findings, the pilot of 39 years does not seem adamant about the idea of starting the 2010 season with a post race driver: he seems more realistic to consider the replacement of a driver during the season (driver rookie unsatisfactory for example).

"Everyone I spoke to told me that the beginning of the season does not mean the end of transfers and I tend to agree," says Villeneuve. "This is the beginning of a new era for the F-1 and things are very, very different from the past in the business side of sport. I am convinced that pilots start the season will not be those who finish. The lack of experience will make up some . Even if I did not drive in Bahrain, I will continue my exercises. "

The return of Michael Schumacher leaves the dreamer: "If Michael makes successful return - and I am sure he will do will be good for me. The teams believe that many new cars are very well suited to experienced drivers, but they are not convinced. With Michael, who will soon after his return, people should think of me, especially when taking into account my past encounters with him. "

I think seven and a half seasons on grooves would be more than enough to adapt.

It was Peter Sauber.

Yeah, well it's JV, who moans and criticises when he doesn't get his own way.

Mario Theissen said it, I think, and it was untrue (inspired, perhaps, by the excitement which surrounds a fast rookie, by a wish to justify the change and by an improved car).

JV was a IndyCar Champion in 1995 on slick tires. Something to remember there, plus he most certainly had his most spectacular win on slicks in formula one. He's been running cars with slick tires on them since he went out of F1 so, really, he's not that bad of a choice. He's a WDC as well, which brings some credibility to a refreshed Renault. I definitely see this happening.

Some very brief history for those that dont know:

1996, Outstanding rookie year, most wins for rookie year (record held with Hamilton) almost won first race after putting the car on pole and took the championship with his experienced team mate Hill, down to the wire.
1997 Won the Championship.. we all know that. 7 wins, a 3rd, one 4th and 2x 5th's.
1998, Renault had left Williams and the new car was a dissapointment, he got a couple of podiums and finished 5th in the Championship behind the 2 Ferrari's and the 2 McLarens. His team mate Frentzen came 7th.
1999, first year in the new BAR team. The car was a DOG. He DNF'd the first 11 races! Finished 21st in the Championship. Neither Jacques or his team mate Zonta scored any points.
2000, the car was a little better and slightly more reliable, Jacques came 7th in the standings, behind the 2 Ferrari's, 2 McLarens, Fisi in the Benetton and Ralf Schumacher in the BMW. Team mate Zonta came 14th in championship.
2001, similiar to 2000, best of the rest 7th, got a couple of podiums. Team mate Panis came 14th in the championship. Dave Richards became new team manager (disliked Jacques)
Was voted "drivers" driver in either 2000 or 2001...
2002, car wasnt very good, JV came 12th, Panis 14th in championship.
2003, the car was unreliable, JV DNF'd 9 times and sat out the last race as Dave Richards wanted Sato in the seat. Finished 16th in the championship. Team mate Button finished 9th. Was clear that Dave Richards wanted Jacques out and favoured Button, Jacques was effectively dropped at the end of the season without time to find a ride for 2004.
2004, raced last 3 races for Renault, which was a mistake, he wasnt used to the Renault car and took him a while to get to grips with it, much like the Fisichella situation at Ferrari this year.
2005, took a while to get to grips with the new Sauber car, but after that was nip and tuck with Massa all year, finished 2 points apart in the championship. Massa in 13th place, Jacques in 14th.
2006, BMW took over Sauber, although JV had a contract they wanted to get rid of him but realised it would be expensive to pay him off so kept him onboard. Nip and tuck with Heidfeld before being dropped after a crash, for the last 6 races in favour of Kubica...

He was beaten by Button in 2003 imo because he was tired and sick of the crap at BAR. Dave Richards was pushing him out and he had just run out of energy and motivation.
2005 and 2006 he was a match for both Massa and Heidfeld.
Every other year he beat his team mate.
Jacques problem was that apart from 1996 and 1997 all the others cars he's driven have been mid- field at best or at worst complete DOGS!

Heres what JV thought about grooved tires back in 1998:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT0Sp4SNBlY

Well, yeah ... but what racing is there in the middle of January?


Off all the traits of drivers I'd be willing to sign, these two probably very, very low on my shopping list. If you get a dog of a car, you do what Button and Barrichello did at Honda: you keep trying to win races, even if it's impossible. You don't do what Villeneuve did and give up.

He didnt give up.
But during the final year at BAR with David Richards trying to get rid of him at every opportunity, he definately lost some motivation and energy. Think about it, 5 years of driving the wheels off crap cars at BAR only to be pushed out... talk about a shitty deal.
If Jacques had gone to say, Ferrari in 1999 things would be have been very different im sure..

Sure, but moaning about the grooves wasn't unusual when they were introduced.

Damon Hill hated them.

That begs the question: why couldn't he find a full-time drive elsewhere? I know he did three races for Renault late in 2004, but if he's as good as you claim he is, why idn't he have a full-time drive?


Yes. And if Michael Schumacher had gone to McLaren in 1996, things wuld have been different. Or if Jenson Button went to Williams in 2006, things would have again been different. You cannot judge a driver's ability based on what might have happened if things had been different.

Plenty has been written about Jacques' brattish behaviour.

His lying to Heinz Harald Frentzen after tyre testing.

His tipped Ricardo Zonta's lunch in the garbage when he was slightly late to a meeting.

Slagging of Jenson Button before the start of the 2003 season.

And you've got to say, after Richards got rid of Villeneuve the teams got much, much better.

Jacques was apparently a much more pleasant person to be around when he returned in 2004.

But the damage was done.

Actually Peter Sauber said if he had known earlier he would have signed Jacques for the 2004 season. As it turned out on the same day or so he landed rides (signed contracts) at both Renault and Sauber.

He slagged Button off but it was justified. And rightly so he later had a huge respect for Jenson. He simply said what everyone thought, as it turned he and everyone were wrong about Button, and Jacques accepted that and later corrected himself.

Yeah they sure improved. I remember reading this article a while ago. I don't know how much it was talked about back then, but it suggests the improvements were much thanks to Villeneuves inputs.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=23418[

However, back to the topic. Villeneuves recent comments makes it hard to believe he is close to a deal with Renault.

The story about Nick getting faster after Kubica´s promotion to the racing seat is pure PR BS. Heidfeld himself said so, and everyone with a minimum undestanding of F1 race will know its not even plausible. Heidfeld also noted (and I think he´s THE one who can tell) that Robert and Jacques are "equally fast".
BMW admitted themselves that Nick and Robert were just about equal. Here´s the link, but their site is down and I couln´t find it cached anywhere.

http://www.bmw-sauber-f1.com/en/index.html%23/news/~508%7C0/

If anyone has that please post here. BTW the BMW-Sauber F1 team comparison shows a slight advantage for Nick over Robert as he scored like 3 more points than Kubica during their spell as teammates...

Yeah whatever. FACT is his replacement SATO scored ZERO points for the whole 04 season while Button got what, 35?
Jacques worked with BAR for the whole 2003 season, do you REALLY believe that the good car they had in 2004 has nothing to do with Villeneuve´s input??? Delusional!


Jacques worked for Renault for 3 races in 2004, but people just tend to forget that he worked with Renault for 3 seasons (96/7 and 98 "Mecachromme" POS) and gave them a World Title in the proccess. Even for that three races, his input and feedback was greatly appreciatted as stated by Pat Symmonds himself. I´m not saying it was a real factor on 2005 Renault, it probably wasn´t, but even a small clue about tire pressure or compounds can bring HUGE advantage. I´m just pointing to the trend.


Because, after a real struggle for the first 5 races (up until Imola if I´m not mistaken) Jacques could get the bonehead Sauber Team to listen to his preferences, he even had a BIG fallout with his race engineer, and they changed brakes (specially the engine brake systems that was very peculiar (from Ferrari), electronics, engine maps, AND THE RESULTS SHOWED IMMEDIATELY. Remeber Monaco? Yes that incident was not beautiful to watch, FACT IS JV was faster than Massa, that crash was bad management from Sauber (what could he do Massa was Ferrari´s boy) and still Jacques lead him going to the last round (brazilian GP Massa´s home Gran Prix) 9-8 points in the standings, as Massa got 5th @ Interlagos they finish the season 13th and 14th, 11-9 in Massa´s favour. And lately Massa was showing Raikkonen the way. I would say Massa "blew Kimi away" with his monstrous speed hahahahaha.


And finally BMW. They tried everything to get rid of him (management wise, his mechanics and engineers supported him all the way to the end) but JV had no place in Theissen´s team. Yeah, the same Mario who understands so much about drivers that he let Vettel go to Red Bull. BMW had an option on him and didn´t use...
Anyway just to point to a trend, what can you tell me about BMW´s cars for 07/08? What about last year? Do the math!

"When I left, F1 wasn't fun anymore," he continued. "Or rather, driving still was but the atmosphere outside was bad; you'd spend your half hour with your race engineer, after which the computer would prepare your setup and they'd tell you 'shut up and drive'. I'm the type of person that always speaks out but towards the end everything became very difficult."
"That kind of atmosphere looks boring when viewed from the outside. No-one speaks out - in my opinion, that's also what loses fans. People want to see gladiators - instead they all sound like they love each other. In reality, everyone wants to beat everyone else."



“I'm a racing driver and I always will be, that's why I'm looking about myself for F1” said the former F1 champion in an interview for Autosprint, as reported by autosport.com.
The F1 competition became appealing again to Villeneuve with the introduction of new regulations such as racing on slick tires and banning electronics. Looking at a Formula One which puts emphasis on the drivers skills again is something that interests Villeneuve a lot, as he openly admitted he aims for the Triple Crown of Motorsport before retiring.
“In my opinion today's cars are better to watch and they will be even more so next year. They will be more fun driving them, especially with the fuel-stop ban. You can see them sliding more, without electronic aids: this way the show is better” said Jacques Villeneuve. “I've been saying it ten years: ban pitstops, get back to slick tires and get rid of electronics. I'm only sorry that compulsory pitstops for tire changes are staying, because that takes away some of the action coming from the fuel factor” continued the driver.
Villeneuve also mentioned that, because of the test ban, he believes that teams are interested in more experienced drivers: “driving is the only thing that interests me and all the mess that's happened helps me: with the test ban, we experienced drivers are handy. I can't say what will happen, but I'm giving it a go”.

Thats totally true and everybody knows Jenson turned out to be the biggest playboy in the world, his yatch would rival Piquet´s and Briatore´s at Monaco, it was during his Benneton spell (01-02). Hence the "boy band" comment. They´re good mates nowadays and respect each other to the highest level. Button himself got away from that lifestyle to focus on his carreer (he might just not have one otherwise). Jacques did good to him...

Nick 'I'm better then my teammate' Heidfeld said many stupid things. I belive Peter Sauber...

That's a hell of a case you make for Jacques, Tract1on. Just for your sake alone, I really hope you are right and he gets the Renault seat.
Hairpin or Senna grandstand?

Pffff its wasn´t even Peter who said that, it was Mario, Sauber didn´t take part in 06 at all, no involvement with the team except as an Embassador for them.
Every single driver (racer) must think as himself as better than his teammate, why should one bother competing otherwise?
I can´t remember any of "many stupid things" that Nick said, to me he seems to be very reserved, down to earth, honest guy. Low profile, which I think is his main deficit to be successful in a poisoned environment like F1.

Renault's website has been closed for an awfully long time.

Hopefully, Boullier's web team are far through the design.

Not sure the website is at the top of their priorities though. Especially as they don't appear to have a big sponsor to please.

But isn't that exactly the point? Villeneuve didn't go to Ferrari or stay at Williams or accept any decent offer he got during his BAR days.

He decided to accept a shit load of money and take up the challenge of building his own team. And he failed at that, proving he wasn't worth that much money and wasn't that good as a team leader. Which is why Richards canned him.

Not because they didn't get along.

Villeneuve was a good driver. However, he wasn't very good at the (technical and leadership) aspects outside of the cockpit and he burned all his bridges in F1, for example by pissing off his sponsors by changing his hair constantly. That kind of childish behaviour shows you just aren't serious in your chosen job and pretty soon people won't take you seriously anymore. There were simply other drivers out there who were more attractive to teams.

And he is not some "lost" talent like his dad or Bellof. Villeneuve has had ample opportunity to have a glittering career. He certainly spent enough seasons in F1. He did very well in the Williams but failed in the BAR and was only so-so in the Renault, Sauber and BMW and thus his career came to an end. It's as simple as that.

True, but having a team specific website makes it easier to find the original news story on the internet.

Lets look at their average points per race eliminating races not finished due to mechanical failure. Then you'll get the real picture.

Well, it is a well known fact that drivers often need the pressure of a fast(er) teammate to dig deep themselves. At Ferrari, Schumacher would go ballistic if Barrichello was faster and if the data did not provide a reason, he would take Barrichello's chassis on the basis that the chassis must be faster.

And at McLaren, Senna got an unwelcome jolt when Hakkinen appeared and was promptly faster. Team members say they never saw Senna try that hard in qualifying all year....

If Senna needed a fast team mate to get the best out of him (and he practically wrote the book on commitment), then I can believe that Heidfeld suddenly sat up and took notice with the arrival of a new guy after comfortably matching Villeneuve.

I don't know if Nick got faster after Kubica or not but I think such things are possible because I believe Lewis who said that in 2007. Exactly he was referring to Sutil. He said he hoped his friend would push his teammate and get him faster as much as Robert did that to Nick in BMW. I don't care if it was true or not in Nick's case...

It was Sauber (on TV).