It's called an opinion. You have yours too, but certainly with an attitude.

Hope this Lotus thing ends up a good thing for Renault.

Proton are minted as they have the backing of the Malaysian government. So I don't see any worries there.

Put your house on it. As someone else mentioned....BMW once had a long term plan. So did Toyota...and Jaguar...etc.

When it looks like its going to crash and burn at some point, it usually does. If Boullier is waiting for them to start challenging for titles to entice sponsors/backers....he's in for a rude shock.

I want to see them back up this years effort first. Forget making the strides to challenge for titles, that will likely take years. McLaren, Ferrari, Red Bull (Newey ain't going anywhere) won't roll over easily...and they are well in front at this stage.

There were no attitude, belive me. It's you who read it that way.

My point is how somebody can claim that company will broke, while not having any data, insight information or being specialist in such area?

Simple as that.

It's something like claiming quantum mechanics doesn't work because it seems so for you but you have no idea about it.

No offence intended.

From Lotus thread:

"ScarabsF1 on twitter:
Proton now own Lotus cars and want to enter F1, they think they own the rights to the Lotus name, they have bought 25% of RenaultF1
about 10 hours ago via web

@bartekg "is Lotus buying 25% of RenaultF1 an officially done deal or just speculation?" Done deal, no speculation
about 7 hours ago via web in reply to bartekg"

... And if they don't?

Nothing. They will still have 25% of shares, but maybe they will have to use Proton brand instead of Lotus. However, I somehow doubt it. We will see Lotus Renault F1 Team. Of couse all this if this rumour is true.

...Then they always own the rights to the 'Lotus Cars' name.

No I am not. The team is owned by PROTON, in such case!

Crystal clear is not it?

Anf if Bernie doesn't want Fernandes' team to lose the Lotus name?

I think Bernie doesn't care. And If he does, than Proton can use Proton name or Lotus Cars name. No problem.

Carlos G said in Brazil that the name of Renault will remain in one way or the other, which could mean that the team is sold, but as the engine-technology supplier the name Renault will appear more on many cars, such as Marussia-Renault (woops too early), Red Bull-Renault, Team Lotus-Renault and Proton Renault. It makes sense to me to understand it in such ways.

Renault sold the stake to Proton.

Why ? in that case 25% will belong to Renault, 25% to Proton/Lotus cars and 50% to Genii


Edit: Carlos Ghosn ALSO said that Renault stays involved in the chassis activity... maybe even 100% involved.
Viry Chatillion stays in Renault's hands anyway.

Renault sells the team stake to Proton, and keep the technology imput in the separate company. The technology company function like Red Bull Technology to two teams, and will sell more parts cheaper to many other team. The Renault is therefore the third but independent and not-directly-involved party which is free to sell parts of chassis.

Maby they could sell the technology, but how they would sell parts while not owning the factory of the parts in Ensone

why there is a no official news on any main F1 site yet ?

i'm still full of doubts !

My sauces are telling me it may be true.

Scarbs is a reliable source.




Why not... I don't mind as long as the engine and the chassis are made By Renault in Viry and Enstone.



Kubica got traffic in his last fast laps. With his best sectors Put together, he would set a 1:43.817 s lap.
But this is only FP1 : P

It'll be interesting to see what names everyone is gonna have next season. We really aren't sure what any of the new teams will be called and now Renault too!

At least all three of the new teams and Renault F1 seem to be rather secure for next season. I've said it before, F1 is looking very healthy at the moment what with exciting 4 way finales and this season in general and the future, it's good times. Better than the Schumi era and the Manufacturer era after that

Perhaps because it hasn't been announced yet by the team. Just because it's being widley-reported doesn't make it true. In fact, it shouldn't be considered true until an article appears directly quoting someone who is named within the team.

Proton plans to introduce five new cars at once, promote them by sponsoring all kinds of racing formulas and their financial backers are Malaysian tax payers. Sure, I'm no financial expert, but could you point me any other, successful company with similar business model?

What can they sell besides drive train (gearbox, engine, KERS)? I don't think any significant parts of chassis could be shared between the teams. Toro Rosso had to start their own factory.

FIA had announced during the TWG meeting that they want to supply center part of front wing and the main blade of rear, or example.

You could go on... like F-Duct R&D works or any other up and coming technology development. It should suit bill for smaller teams to HELP them go forward.

It looks that here is some misunderstanding considering rights to Lotus name.
1) Proton has all the rights to Lotus brand, because they owe it.
2) Fernandes presumably has rights to Team Lotus brand. That one is in court.
3) Lotus Racing, 2010 Fernandes team is Lotus cars brand, the one Proton owes!! And Fernandes won't have the right to this brand in 2011!

Therefore if we shell have Lotus Renault F1 team (Genii) and Team Lotus Renault (Fernandes), then Fernandes will the one who comes in with the same name that already exist on the grid. It will be his problem.
In 2010 we have Lotus cars brand on the grid not Team Lotus, and the owner of Lotus cars is now shareholder in Renault F1.
And Bernie and Lopes seems to be quite close.
Therefore I am sure there will be Lotus Renault F1 Team next year, but not so sure about name of 2010 Lotus Racing.

I advise you to visit Lotus thread and read what David Hunt has said.

This discussion goes in two separate threads, could you quote him? you aren't expecting us to go trough whole Lotus thread, are you?

sorry, havn't got time for this.

Most of us know that, Gbain



+1

Here, the interesting interview... :

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/...out-team-lotus/

shouldn't we merge those two threads about lotus and renault teams?

One -- but who owns Enstone? Without Enston Renault have only Viry, where they build engines, so how they can build wings etc. ?

It seems that Lotus Group bought out Renault's 25% shares of Renault F1 Team, which means this team is in hands Genii and Lotus Group.

So, now Renault becomes title sponsor by providing free engines to the team. Renault has nothing to do with Enstone factory.

The team is now Genii's nad Lotus'.

But just better wait for official statement.

They are still building the car (until now)... but under Genii's control. Genii's takes the manager role and finances Enstone.

Yeah but like don't take as Gospel one side of the story.

Anyway it's clear that Group Lotus is coming onboard for RF1, they own Lotus Cars, they licensed the name to Fernandes and have now terminated that licence and they are to all effects 'Lotus'. Fernandes should just call it a day with the 'Team Lotus' talk now, it's a losing battle IMO.

Is there a source for the Renault 25% buy out? I think it's a bit of an assumption otherwise?

Scarbs on previous page

Yeah but he doesn't specifically say it's Renault's 25% that they bought (not saying it isn't, but certainly it's yet to be confirmed that Renault sold their 25%).

Scarbs says Proton bought 25% from Renault F1 team
Renault is said to own 25% from Renault F1 Team
Korzeniow thinks Proton bought that 25% stake from Renault.

We won't go further with constructive discussion without official statement

Exactly, for all we know it could be Renault 25%, Proton 25%, Genii 50%. Of course the 25% number does suggest it a strong possibiliy Renault got brought out, but until they annouce that it's still speculation.

On a separate issue, has Eric Boullier mentioned WHEN the 2nd driver decision would be announced?
Settling back to watch FP2, looking to see trouble free and encouraging set up runs by Robert and Vitaly, a strong end to the year would help winter pass quickly:clap:

IIRC Boulier said they have whole winter for decide on that, and that there is no rush

Proton is profitable. Q1 results If i remember correctly, Lotus Group only broke even recently.

Proton is no. 2 in terms of market share in Malaysia(They lost top spot years ago). They are behind Perodua which remakes Daihatsu models with Toyota engines. Both companies play under the same rules in this highly protected industry. Proton has negligible exports. They've been trying for years, who knows when it'll succeed. Their manufaturing plants are severly underutilized.


http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...mp;sec=business

I'm very sceptical that all this could actually revive the lotus unit. I also don't know where this extra money for sponsorship is coming from. They're always complaining about R&D being expensive and they're in the process of developing a hybrid....

We are loosing in 3rd sector

Capitan Obvious strikes back...

Obviously your sauces need a pinch of salt...

thanks for your contribution

Petrov surprisingly did very well today

I read that as David Hunt bought "rights to the name of Team Lotus" 16 years ago, and has been trying to sell it for silly money since then. If he named a sensible price, Group Lotus would have bought it years ago.

Hunt finally sold the rights to Fernandes, who announced it, and then got thumped by the Malaysians, so wants out of the deal with Hunt.

None of this has any relevance to the Proton-Renault-Genii deal.