What is it with all this "too soon" and "he´s not ready"? I mean, Kimi started his career with far less experience in lower formulaes, he had to race without any major mistakes in order to keep his licence and he also needed to be fast enough at the same time to convince team bosses of his ability. He did fine. He moved to Mclaren next year and he was even younger then than LH is now.

Why would this move destroy LHs career? He isnt expected to even match Alonso in his first year, at least not by anyone with half brain. But he could learn a lot from a one of the best drivers there is, so why o why would that damage his career instead of boosting it?

And as an extra bonus, next year they can run much more laps in fridays due to new regs, that will give him a lot of time to learn unfamiliar tracks and find good set ups, unlike Rosberg this year who had to start qualification with some 20-30 laps under his belt during all free practise sessions, so it should be a lot easier for him.

When he started at Sauber he done well and had a contract with Ferrari before he went to McLaren which is what should of happened to Hamilton (Start in a lower team if you hadn't already worked out what i meant) After all Kimi,Alonso,Schumi all started at lower teams it can only be a good thing or teams wouldn't have been doing it for so many years. This is where Ron has made a compplete c*ock up off it

There are no smaller teams in F1, anymore, except for maybe Spyker but one could hardly learn anything there since they won`t test a single km instead this year because "they are focusing on the new car".

What a pathetic excuse, BTW - seems like Mol continues where Jordan and then Shnaider ended...

What so SA ,Toro Rosso, Red Bull and maybe even Williams wouldn't have been a better option than McLaren? (and yes I know they all have two drivers bar Spyker but they could have got him in before they got their drivers signed( bar a drive a testing role at McLaren would have been better as it would of got him practice in an F1 car remember they are completely different to GP2s))

I think steve_72 has a point. If Hamilton approaches the season with the wrong mindset (e.g. "I've got to beat Alonso at some point in the year") then it could well backfire. Fortunately, Ron's telling him he doesn't need to beat Alonso this year and I seem to remember him setting fairly lowish expectations too - but the danger is there that, once on track, all common sense will go out the window. I'm delighted to see that he's got the seat, but there are still worries, particularly as he's probably going to have even more press attention than Jenson got when he started at Williams: it's a big step up for him.

I think the change to Fridays is probably the reason he got the seat over Pedro, it will allow he plenty of time to practice the circuit and test set-ups (assuming the car/engine holds together).

They are also completely different than a decent front running car.

I do not understand why anyone thinks he will learn more at a backmarker team than a front running one.

Because the majority of successful drivers start from a back running. Why can't some people have a grasp of history?

Come on...

What has Rosberg learned at Williams, they couldn`t even let the boy do some running on fridays.
SA? Why would they take him? They have plenty of "own" drivers, just as TR and RB.


I agree, that they could have let him test for a year, but I "heard" a rumour somewhere that testing will be limited this year - gone are the time when you could just let someone drive and drive and drive in circles.
Tire limitation, km limitation are the keywords.

Only because a front running team won't normally give them a seat as a rookie, but just because thats the way its been in the past, does not mean it's the best way forward for a driver.

It`s nice to see that you are interested in history, but F1 has changed a lot, even since last year...

What about what he expects of himself? He thinks hes one of the best drivers in the world, so getting flogged week in week out wont be good for his confidence over an extended period of time.
It could destroy his mind.

Because its only very recent history, and distorted at that; Coulthard, Schumacher, J Villeneuve, Damon Hill for instance, all had seats in competetive cars at the very beginning of, or very early in, their F1 careers. There are few (if no) options for managers to place drivers at a Minardi, or a Jordan, or wherever, as those teams no longer exist (Spyker wants a Dutchman, and Aguri is Honda Jnr - Toro Rosso needs no explanation).

The other reason why Ron has made the right decision is that he is paying Hamilton, and would have had to pay him wherever he went - why spend half a million (or whatever) on another team, when he can learn just as well at McLaren?

There is absolutely no historical trend of drivers starting at back-marker teams and moving to the front, bar one or two from very recent years where - of course - the front running seats have been occupied by the same group of ten-twelve drivers for a very long time.

Yr wrote:

What is it with all this "too soon" and "he´s not ready"? I mean, Kimi started his career with far less experience in lower formulaes, he had to race without any major mistakes in order to keep his licence and he also needed to be fast enough at the same time to convince team bosses of his ability. He did fine. He moved to Mclaren next year and he was even younger then than LH is now.

Why would this move destroy LHs career? He isnt expected to even match Alonso in his first year, at least not by anyone with half brain. But he could learn a lot from a one of the best drivers there is, so why o why would that damage his career instead of boosting it?

And as an extra bonus, next year they can run much more laps in fridays due to new regs, that will give him a lot of time to learn unfamiliar tracks and find good set ups, unlike Rosberg this year who had to start qualification with some 20-30 laps under his belt during all free practise sessions, so it should be a lot easier for him.

----------------

I hear what you’re saying about Kimi and I agree up to a point. What I would say though, is that the expectations that were placed upon Kimi when he was in a Sauber will not be the same as for Lewis in a Mclaren.

Going up against Alonso is a tall order. Didn’t Jenson say some time ago that Lewis would get quite a shock going up against Fernando? You say that nobody expects him to match Alonso, and yes you’re right. But he has to be reasonably close though, surely? If Mclaren produce a car that puts them in a position to challenge for both titles, Lewis will have to deliver the goods.

To my mind, Alonso destroyed Fisichella over their two years together at Renault – and Fisichella was a very experienced, very skilled driver who was highly regarded by many (whether he still is, is an argument I’ll leave for today). I wouldn’t want to see the same happen to Lewis.

I’m not saying that this move will “destroy” Lewis’s career. All I’m saying is that I’m concerned that it may hurt it. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable position. Nor do I think that’s arguing over semantics – there is a clear distinction between damage and destroy. After all, I’m not hoping he falls flat on his face – quite the opposite – I want to see him do well.

For all that, I understand people’s frustrations at doubters or naysayers like myself. I suppose it may simply be a differing attitude to risk. After all, the history of F1 is riddled with examples of team bosses taking chances on new young stars, whether it’s a Schumacher (Michael!), a Clark or a Stewart. And they know a hell of a lot more about it than me.

Ultimately though, Ron Dennis clearly sees something in Lewis and is confident he’ll do well. Ron doesn’t strike me as someone given to spontaneous, romantic decisions when it comes to driver selection and I’m sure a full risk assessment has been carried out...

I wish him well.

Cheers,

That's probably going a little far. I don't expect to see McLaren strapping a drooling idiot into the cockpit as the season progresses.

I wouldn't call Bennaton a competitve car Schumachers skill with mechanics is what made him a competive car. Oh and Coulthard? Howmany world championships has he won. Hill one good season.Villeneuve? one lucky season look what he has done since.


You really have just proved my point haven't you thanks in a way really

It was hardly a backmarking machine, was it? Where did they finish in the constructors in '91, Michaels first part season, and '92, his first full (which included a win!)? Hardly at the bottom, were they?



Same number as Stirling Moss, Gilles Villeneuve, Jacky Ickx, and many, many more.




Which one? the one with three victories, or the one with six? Or maybe even the one with four wins, or possibly the other one, where he won eight? Your choice....



Seeing as you;re the history expert (as in your earlier comment) i'll allow you to explain why Jacques career went the wrong way. On the other hand, judging by your knowledge of Damon Hill's career, someone else might have to help you.




You think so? You ask why people have no grasp of history and then go on to display a complete and utter lack of knowledge of it yourself?

Using your example, could it be posible that Lewis is really that good and he could do a Fisi on Alonso. That being the new inexperienced boy in the team (Alonso above, Hamilton now) beating the experienced highly skilled driver (Fisi above, Alonso now). Stranger things have happened.

This discusion is a load of nonsence really, non of us know how Lewis will do, we will just have to wait and see.

Stirling Moss failed to win a WDC because of having to give up the car and even so drove a lot of races under the influence of LSD. Not sure how many of the other drivers of the time were under the influence but still. Gilles was such a skill driver I mean the way he slid the car about, shamefully died far to early as a result of why he was so great(determination to go as fast as the car would let him) (Tryed to find some nice vids of him but a lot had clips of his fatal crash in them but if you want to find some vids of him just type his name into utube BE WARNED most contain clips of the fatal accident). Jacky Ickx don't know much about him TBH

Ickx was utterly brilliant, you should try and learn about him if you are into motor racing..

Going up against Alonso is a tall order for sure, but if LH is as good as RD seem to think he is, it´s not too tall. Could you imagine drivers like MS, KR or FA backing off as test drivers in similar situation? In next year he has a huge advantage over rookies who started this year, the extra laps he can gather in fridays will make it much easier for him to adapt than it has been ever for rookies.

Alonso destroyed Fisi, alright. But lets just wait and see how much of that destroing was an "Alonso-factor", how much of it was "Briatore´s favourite"- factor. It might very easily turn out that Alonso will have no such an edge over his teammate when he has left Renault, no matter who his teammate is.

Funny that not even Alonso could predict when he was able to fight for the championship, not to say become world champion and has been mocking and questioning by mostly McLaren supporters when he is hoping next year car will be competitive and now it is a reasonable objective that an unproven F1 driver comments he is targeting to win the championship in three years.

Seems to be lots of people questioning the wisdom of putting Hamilton in the McLaren alongside Alonso. For years now i have been comparing Hamilton to Schumacher and Alonso, and I see no reason why he should not be able to make the same sort of impact.
Schumi had one shot at it, after a single test session, should he not have risked his carreer?

If Hamilton has what it takes to become champion, and I believe he has, then he'll be able to deliver right from the start. If he has only got the talent to be a journeyman, then there is a risk involved, but that risk would be there in any team. Now he is in one of the very few teams where he doesn't have to beat his team-mate for a while.

The difference of a Jordan F1 to a Sauber GT is smaller than the difference of a McLaren to a GP2 due to the complexity of electronics gizmos.

And that MS might have no tomorrow in F1, while LH has the chance of Friday driving a whole season before facing Alonso.

Its a good decision from McLaren IMO.

Ron regards him extremely highly and having just watched GP2 race 2 at Turkey I have to say I agree- one of the most impressive drives Ive seen in any formula ever. A pure racer!

I agree with persovik- the pressure is on Hamilton to do well but unlike Fisi who was expected to be right up with FA most of the time, all Hamilton has to do IMO is finish his first few races and start finishing within a couple of places of FA as the year goes on.

Alonso has set such a high benchmark that in a way it takes alot of pressure off of Hamilton to deliver results compaired to his team mate in the first season.

I think Schumacher is the exception here and even he didn't land a racing drive in a top team the first time out. Coulthard and Hill were groomed in a testing role prior to landing race drives and Villeneuve was already a very seasoned open wheel racer when he landed with Williams.

I'm interested in seeing how Hamilton and McLaren handle his first couple of years. I would say that most of the rookies in the last 10 years have needed some time to come into their own - particularly those that started their F1 racing careers very young.

But, as the other thread showed - of the last 20 years only 3 of the World Drivers Champions have spent more than half a season in a low ranked team - and 3 never drove for one at all - net result, it doesn't make any difference. If he's good enough, it'll work fine, if he's not it won't but there'll be no difference if he's in an MP rather than anywhere else. No matter how badly he does, he can't look BAD next to Alonso, but even failing to slaughter Monteiro would raise questions.

It's a bit like Toro Rosso, both SS & VL look all over the place - but looking at their CV's the car may be horrendous with them driving at the top of their game. Hamilton's job won't be harder at McLaren than anywhere else.

Thats genius. Thats simply the funniest thng i've read in years.



Spyker, you're incessant attempts to be clever, when covering up your obvious lack of knowledge, are very irritating. I don;t need to look for videos, I was there. For Gilles talent, look no further than Spain and Monaco '81, where him NOT sliding a car that really, really wanted to slide gave an indication of serious brilliance.



Therefore, I rest my case.

Predicting and having something as a target is two completely different things. I'm really astonished if Alonso isn't targeting to win his third next season. He's probably isn't going to predict he's going to get it however.

I'm also pretty sure that Alonso believes McLaren has potential to give him a wdc winning car. Why shouldn't Hamilton believe that McLaren has the same potential in three years? Hamilton has to believe in his own abilities to have wdc as an objective in such circumstances.

Every drivers objective should be:
1. to impress to get a seat in a top team
2. to win when you get there.

Not really it was even funnier when he annonced it himself. Also it would have been quite hard for me to have been at or to have seen the races at the time as it was 10 years before i was born

No, he didn't. In fact, had you read said interview(s) you would understand full well that he was not talking about LSD (which would, I must add, make driving competetively an impossibility!)





Then do not accuse others of not having a grasp of history, thats all.

Reading the news story off the front page you just get smacked repeatedly in the face by just how polished he is. God McLaren are going to love this guy if he proves to have even an iota of talent in F1s for real...because everything that seems to come out of his mouth is gold.

And he doesn't come across as being bland either, when he talks you get the impression he's saying exactly what he thinks, even if the words seem to have come from a pr spokeperson's copy book.

Wonder how he'll cope though being asked the same questions 5000 million times though

He seems like a good grounded kid so far. Reasonable and humble so hes got the right attitude it seems.

Can anybody remind me a complete debutant in f1 history alongside reigning double world champion, still very young, may be even not at the peak of his powers and potentially one of the greatests in history and in a top-3 team?
That is the point for Hamilton. Not to lose a lot next year, which would be ok, but what about 2008 and 2009 if Lewis stays at Mclaren? Alonso will be 28 y/o in 3 years and he will progress further from now as a driver which is clear after 2004-2005-2006.
So Lewis will be losing to Alonso a lot not just next year but all three years long. Hamilton looks like a great talent but it takes at least 3 years to start shining brightly and for the purpose Hamilton should have debuted in any other team but not at Mclaren with Alonso.

Some days after the news and almost 400 later ...

Does someone know the length of the contract of LH by McLaren?

I think it has not been said. Again a lack of transparency from McLaren in the Lewis topic?

FERNANDO ALONSO

1984 3 years The First Career in Go-cart.

1988 go-cart Infantile category:
Champion of Asturias , he gains 8 of 8 careers

1989 Go-cart Infantile category:
Champion of Asturias
Champion of Galicia

1990 Go-cart category Cadet:
Champion of Asturias
Champion of the Pais Vasco

1991 Go-cart category Cadet:
Sub-champion of Spain

1993 Go-cart category Junior:
Champion of Spain

1994 Go-cart category Junior:
Champion of Spain

1995 Distinguished like sports of High Level in Spain and Go-cart category Junior:
Champion of Spain
3 º Classified Championship of the World

1996 go-cart category Junior:
Champion of the World
1 º Classified Trophy Festival (Italy)
1 º Calsificado Marlboro Grand Prix

1997 Go-cart category Inter-A:
Champion of Spain
Champion of Italy
Pole Position + 9 Victories
Europa's Championship

1998 Go-cart category Inter-A:
Champion of Spain
1 º Classified Trophy Paris Berçi
1 º Classified Trophy of the Industry (Italy)
1 º Classified Trophy Open Ford

1999 Euro-Open Movistar by Nissan.
Champion Euro Open Movistar 1999 in his first participation in cars of careerswith changes of march
9 Poles Position , 6 Victories , 8 rapid returns

2000 Participation in the Formula 3000.
2 º classified GP of Hungary.
1 º classified GP of Belgium
4º Classified in the Championship

Staying always ahead of his team mates , with more age and with more experience that he

WHERE BRIATORE WAS THERE? BRIATORE WHO?

2001 makes début in the Formula 1 of Minardi's hand, though he is a pilot of Benetton-Renault.

2002 pilot Renault's probador

2003 Official Pilot of Renault
3 º Classified GP of Malaysia
3 º Classified GP of Brazil
2 º Classified GP of Spain
1 º Classified GP of Hungary
Pole Position: 2

2004 Official Pilot of Renault
3 º Classified GP of Australia
2 º Classified GP of France
3 º Classified GP of Germany
3 º Classified GP of Hungary
Pole Position: 1

2005 Renault F1
3 º Classified GP of Australia
1 º Classified GP of Malaysia
1 º Classified GP of Bahrain
1 º Classified GP of San Marino
2 º Classified GP of Spain
1 º Classified GP of Europe
1 º Classified GP of France
2 º Classified GP of G. Brittany
1 º Classified GP of Germany
2 º Classified GP of Turkey
2 º Classified GP of Italy
2 º Classified GP of Belgium
3 º Classified GP of Brazil
CHAMPION OF THE WORLD OF FORMULA 1.
3 º Classified GP of Japan
1 º Classified GP of China
Pole Position: 6

2006 Renault F1
1 º Classified GP of Bahrain
2 º Classified GP of Malaysia
1 º Classified GP of Australia
2 º Classified GP of San Marino
2 º Classified GP of Europe
1 º Classified GP of Spain
1 º Classified GP of Monaco
1 º Classified GP of G. Brittany
1 º Classified GP of Canada
2 º Classified GP of France
2 º Classified GP of Turkey
2 º Classified GP of China
1 º Classified GP of Japan
2 º Classified GP of Brazil
CHAMPION OF THE WORLD OF FORMULA 1.
Pole Position: 6

2007 Official Pilot of McLaren


Champion (x2) of the youngest world of the history
Fernando Alonso: 24 years, 1 month and 27 days
Emerson Fittipaldi: 25 years, 8 months and 22 days

Younger victors of a Great Prize
Fernando Alonso: 22 years and 26 days (Hungary ' 03)
Bruce McLaren: 22 years, 3 months and 12 days (USA ' 59)
Jacky Ickx: 23 years, 6 months and 6 days (France ' 68)
Michael Schumacher: 23 years, 7 months and 27 days (Belgium ' 92)

Podium younger
Fernando Alonso: 21 years, 7 months and 22 days (Malaysia ' 03)
Elio de Angelis -ITA: 21 years, 10 months and 7 days (Brazil ' 80)
Rubens Barrichello -BRA: 21 years, 10 months and 24 days (Pácifico ' 94)

'Pole' mas young man
Fernando Alonso: 21 years, 7 months and 21 days (Malaysia ' 03)
Rubens Barrichello: 22 years, 3 months and 5 days (Belgium ' 94)
Andrea de Cesaris: 22 years, 10 months and 4 days (USA-W ' 82)

IM-PRESIONANTE And only he is 25 years old

My point was that it seems that an unproven F1 driver has more credibility than a double back-to-back champion in this BB.

maybe your post was not the right one to pick up, though.

3 years

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5923-2470439,00.html

On DCs oppinion of Hamilton being too young for his first full season:

Barrichello and Button were 20 when they started F1. Barrichello was on for a podium finish (2nd!) in his third race (Donington 93) before retiring. Button scored points and beat Ralf Schumacher on a few occasions in his first season.

To say Lewis is too young at 21 is rubbish.

More significantly, look at Alonso's yougests, as listed above...

It's not Lewis too young, it's DC too old

Well, I dont care about pre-F1 career so lets skip that, alright? So what do we have left? One year as a Minardi driver beating a nobody, one year as a test driver for Renault, then two years about equal with Trulli! in Renault, then two years total domination of Fisi.

Hmmm. Doesnt that kind of cv sound a bit weird? I mean, equal (sort of) with Trulli for two years and then destroing Fisi?

Whats weird about it? It could simply indicate that Trulli's a lot better than you're giving him credit for.

And maybe there's an acclimatization period in F1.

It could, true. But being in your 3rd or 4th year in F1 you dont end up being matched by someone like Trulli if you are "head and shoulders above the rest" as some seem to think he is.

Trulli might very well be underrated by most people but then again, if you look his career at Toyota with Ralf, then...

Your being delusional if you think he was matched by Trulli. He clearly destroyed Trulli over 2 two years despite being unexperienced. Apart from a 3 or 4 races period in early 2004, it wasnt much different than Fisi. Domination.

Very true, Trulli will always be flattered because of his astonishing single lap pace. You can't call him slow, because i genuinely beleive if you put him in a car with ANYONE as a teammate he'd out qualy them, that said races are simply not the same game.

I´m sorry but using words "destroy" and "domination" is nothing but fan-boy talk. You can debate who was better, Trulli or Alonso, but nobody dominated or destroid the other. Especially in 2004, Trulli had still few points more than Alonso when he was sacked, I know that Alonso was faster in most races but the thing is he did more mistakes which cost him in points. That mean you can say for example that "Alonso showed more potential" or something like that, but you cant say he beat JT let alone destroid or dominated.

Alonso was significanty quicker than Trulli in 90% of races over two years. How is that not domination? Points table can be deceptive in a season where a car is not competitive and breaks down a lot. In 1992 Senna beat berger by only 1 point, so I guess Berger was as good as Senna?

I'm surprised to hear you say that as you'd have been wearing your JPM goggles at the time and so I doubt Renault would even have registered. I'd call them about equal in both years, with Jarno having an advantage in the second year when qualifying well really paid dividends.

In 2003, Fernando scored 55 points and a victory; Jarno scored 33 points with a best finish of third. In 2004, Jarno had an advantage for a while (roughly Spain to the USA), but then the season swung back to Alonso.
Jarno did well (when he is at his best he's as good as almost anyone) but I don't think they were about equal.