No you'd pick Jenson every day. Not everyone would. 385,000 FaceBook Hamilton fans would probably choose Lewis, and 58,000 Button fans would probably choose Jenson.

But, doesn't that undermine all his previous efforts, if each race performance is so much easier to improve on...?

IMO it's another Lewis' trademark comment like "the guys did a fantastic job" or "I'm sorry". He says it by default.

Facebook is meaningless.

This board is more meaningless to be honest even if it is the most used global F1 related forum board. Not the average fans/F1 viewers are here, just the smaller fraction hardcore fans, who take F1 'too seriously', overanalyze, overcriticize unkown personalities based on subjective assumptions etc. Average fans don't give a sh*t about these things just wanna enjoy the show and many of them love that stuff what e.g. Lewis does on track, because he entertains, they are not interested to do what the F1 freaks do. They don't really know what he says and does off track, and even when they hear about some things, don't care about too much.

He does tend towards saying that a bit too much, have to agree with that.

But this time I think I agree with him. That was (IMO) one of his best races (alongside Silverstone and Hockenheim 08). I think you could make a decent claim for it be the best ever drive to a 6th placed result.

What till he becomes a full ledge member of the 'For sure' club.

Too true.

Why are we all here?
Let's all leave together.
At the same time.

Going?

Really?

See! I knew you would stay.

The fact there are as many hamilton critics on this thread as fans just goes to show, they can't live with him and they cant live without him

He is the most exciting driver in F1 by a mile. Alonso has come close in my book as he too has pulled off some audacious passes in particular round the outside of Schumacher at 130R. But for me Hamilton kept me on the edge of my seat on Sunday morning, he was simply awesome.

And no I am not a newboy to F1, thats me sitting in James Hunts Mclaren in 1976 on the left

Would you have said that if the numbers were reversed?

I'm already an F1 geek, it also comes from that I'm a qualified car mechanics (too) and follow F1 from my childhood. I love the tech side of F1 and dig deep into it. I don't consider being more interested in F1 than the average a bad thing, even if I'm in the minority of the F1 viewers/followers.

But, I seek the positive in every driver I'm not an anti of anyone, and don't do such things or behaviour what some guys do here with Hamilton. I consider it a fixation for them, a kind of mind sickness rooted in their poor personalities. I'd be ashamed of myself if I'd act the way they are.

I don't think that's true. That's why the F1 teams have PR depts. There are plenty of non-hardcore fans who see exactly what he does and says off-track, usually in a 'compressed' format. There are plenty who think him a bit of a spoilt brat, and others who think him a racing god. I enjoy what he does on-track, I think some of his driving and racing in Australia was phenomenal but... He allowed himself to get 'psyched' by the strategy choice during the latter stages of the race. I think that affected him. And his demands to know who made the decision.... sorry, but that sounds petulant. What's he going to do, get him the sack? Would he have given him a prize for choosing a strategy that helped him win a race?

If nothing else, what is his attitude doing to his reputation within the team? Do you think he's helping himself with his crew by slagging them off because they made a mistake? How would he feel if, after qualifying someone from his crew was quoted slagging him off for not making the most of the hard work they had put in to getting him a decent set-up...?

Dude you may not realise it (as you seem a bit blinkered) but the race yesteday was an instant classic. It had everything: 1) the pollman coasting to victory had a terminal mech failure. 2) the somewhat lucky winner only won because he made a seriously gutsy tire call...Full respect to him! 3) FA spins and drives from the back to 4th. 4) RK puts in one of the drives of his career. 5) MW makes an absolute plonker of himself - not just the crash but his general inept racecraft - in front of his home crowd in the best car! 6) MS, the legend, gets repassed by a guy driving a Virgin and gets stuck behind JA... death of the dream right before our eyes.

And did I mention a drying track, changeable conditions, general mayhem at the start and a safety car?


And in all this excitement which guy got the majority of airtime. Either the TV producer thought he was filming a reality show staring LH or he was the star of a race that was a classic.

... people will be talking about this race for years... and guess which driver they will be talking about.

Easy Jenson Button, his first victory in a McLaren achieved by making a great call just in time.

People tend to remember winners and not whiners who finish 6th, not saying that the boy didn't drive a very good race though.

Please tell me you didn't just...

You don't have empathy toward the guy, you don't even try to imagine his situation and feelings. To race on that level and very intense, he could have benn even more rude in the heat of the moment, and I'd still understand him, because I'm a human too, I can relate with him knowinhg myself. You could see into yourself! You never say stupid or wrong things to those you like/love? Don't lie to yourself!

Martin Whitmarsh: "Lewis passionately expressed himself on the radio. I think that is how Lewis is - he is passionate, he likes to win. He likes to do everything well, he is hard on himself and he is hard on the team, and that is how Lewis Hamilton is. That is how he ticks and that is how he functions.

If Lewis didn't feel disappointed and frustrated, I'd be worried."

His drive deserved victory or at least a podium finish, he was rightly very disappointed and disheartened because of that what he got for his huge efforts and whole race fight, while others were cruising for those podium places comfortably.

I'm not a Hamilton fan but I have to say he impressed me in the race in Melbourne. His car was damaged several times and it was clear his front wing was just hanging on. It looked like a Nascar stock car after a short track race. But he still managed to set really fast laps with all that damage.

It's phenomenal isn't it. What a year we have to look forward to. This guy was hungry as hell, now he's mad as hell too. I think KL might be something magical.

The camera showed Lewis much more, than Button. People will remember the actions, and remember the background of the result. And some will forget the result, but remember what they liked in that race, the acts, like when Webber hits Lewis off the track and remember how much fight were on that 2010 Melbourne race and how great drives did some drivers, like Alonso and Hamilton.

I will remember Button overtaken and with slicks in the gravel and what he and the team thought then, 'it will end up in tears', I will remember his lucky win and that how unlicky was his teammate who entertained me the most along with Alonso and Kubica.

Please don't tell me what I think or know, or whether I lie to myself (or not...)

Have I had a go at Lewis? No, I've simply highlighted that he hasn't come out of this exactly smelling of roses, has he? I'll ask again, how do you think his reactions are going to affect his relationships in the team?

You've quoted Martin Whitmarsh and failed to notice that, even though he was quite emotional (its not just the drivers, you know) he stood by his driver. He didn't slag him off (nor have the team on any of the occasions that Lewis has made an error...) and looked to be diplomatic about his outburst.

Sorry, but "his lucky win". I'll keep that gem in mind when I'm reading any more of your posts... it all becomes so clear now (how did I miss it before....)

If Jenson's inters hadn't have gone off at the right moment, forcing him to pit for tyres, he wouldn't have been in a position to win. Or was part of his "tactical brilliance" the fact that he thrashed his inters with perfect timing?

Jenson did well to capitalise on his luck, that's what you want from a number two driver - enough talent to take best advantage of situations while not costing a lot of money. I'm not sure why we have to convert that into some kind of god-like drive. This is the kind of sycophantic hero worship that Lewis used to suffer from.

Yes Lewis drove a great race and was the principle entertainer on the day, but you shouldn't take anything away from Button as he made the early choice to change to slicks. I see people arguing that he didn't have any choice as his inters were ruined but even if so, a ruined set of inters would still be better thank good slicks on a track that was too wet. He made the choice that the track could cope with the slicks and pulled it off.

Jenson was not lucky, but you could say that Lewis was very unlucky with the pit stop delay during the change to slicks and the bad 2nd pit stop call.

You have no idea who you're talking to, or what I am talking about .

I'm not a member of Facebook, nor ever plan on being. My post is not about the fans, it's about Facebook.

Please do your research on posters before you go off running your mouth.

Edit: I also disagree that this board is useless. We clearly saw the effects this board can have on F1 based on the antics of the poster "CompositeKen" in the USF1 thread, and the way the media picked up on his posts. I predicted that to happen, too, and it did.

Anyways, as we were... this is not the thread to discuss any of this, I was just pointing out a personal observation.

Australian government minister Tim Pallas about Ham:

'

d...
Pallas

What a brilliant example being set by the government!

Jenson did a great job, I was happy for his win, because it was a fine McLaren win, I was disappointed because Lewis wasn't with him on the podium despite his incredible efforts and fighting.

Jenson's call was clever and important, but Fortuna needed to do her stuff to make it work. I remember a guy, named Vettel etc...

One thing I'll never forget from Melbourne is the conversation between Ferrari and Alonso during the race, after Lewis's second stop:

Ferrari: "Lewis 3.5 seconds"

Alonso: "I don't want to know!"

He knew what was coming, if only Webber hadn't taken Lewis out...

No-one said this board is useless, just it's used by a small minority and a special kind of F1 fans.

I agree with that, though it is frequented by a lot of influential people :\

Ok he was fortunate with Vettel, just as Lewis was fortunate to get on the podium in Bahrain. A bit of fortune does not make a win lucky. If someone down in 4th has 3 cars go out ahead them maybe they are lucky.

Don't worry I was just as disappointed about Lewis but at least we only have 1 week for the next instalment.

Firstly, your interpretation of his tyres having gone off, "forcing him to pit for tyres" is well-wide of the mark.., you would do well to read Button's remarks properly (ie in their fullness) and appreciate that he was the first to understand that his tyres were starting to go off, which meant (read it, you'll see that he says this) that the track must be drying, so he made the call to change tyres, understanding that the driver is in the best position to make that particular call.

As for "I'm not sure why we have to convert that into some kind of god-like drive."..... where did I say that? Here's the answer. I didn't. You're making this stuff up.

And as for "This is the kind of sycophantic hero worship that Lewis used to suffer from.", this is just pure BS. Generally, if you're looking for sycophantism look to those who try to undermine another's performance in order to big their own 'hero' up. This idea that Button 'lucked in' to his win in Australia, combined with the seeming assertion that Hamilton's overtaking move on Button is the defining moment of the Australian GP ...... now that is sychophantism.

yeah agreed - that says a lot about both drivers - Alonso knows what's coming, perhaps any other driver catching him, and you may not have got that reply but Alonso knows Hamilton is aggressive and what would happen

Alonso is a class act

Hamilton had an absolute storming drive, and if it were me I'd be annoyed. 15 years ago when I was Lewis's age I think I'd be a little more than annoyed, but I'm more relaxed now

hunnylander - top posts agree with many of your points, sometimes I think F1 would be easier to enjoy if I wasn't a hardcore fan

Excellent article here: http://www.forumula1.net/2010/f1/f1-news/h...te-buttons-win/

(extract)

It's brilliant.

I particularly love this bit...

Hmmm...seems Hugh Podmore is a bit...., schizophrenic ....

First he says this; "Button has long been renowned for the care with which he drives an F1 car and in Australia today it paid off in abundance. The McLaren man was effortlessly seamless into all the corners of an Albert Park track that had developed a dry line after the early rain held off. It was consequently a choice for all the teams and drivers between stopping once or twice, one which some got very wrong. Button got it right and early on, and, once the Red Bull of Vettel had departed, was a cert for the win if he could only manage his rubber. It was a task which could not have been more suited to the smoothest of them all, and Button duly did the job with aplomb."

then he says this; "The decision to pit for slick tyres that Button made, while with hindsight extremely advantageous, was essentially a risky one. His crew were not ready when he made the decision, and this is anathema to an ultra-prepared team like McLaren. When he returned to the track, let us not forget, he immediately fell off the road and was lucky to avoid the quicksand-like gravel trap. It all could have ended so soon and in such ignominy for Button, but fortunately for him his luck was in. His luck was in that it didn’t rain again; his luck was in that Alonso was mystifyingly prevented from further attack; his luck was in that Vettel broke down. He was under no threat, and as such could drive in that silky way he does, and take the win.

Hamilton’s only failing was that he, in contrast to Button and again to his own detriment, played the team game."

So, which is it Hugh? Is Button to be admired for his drive, or castigated for letting the team down, the jammy get?

Its not the first time that McLaren have messed up, when Ferrari mess up LDM isnt slow to voice his opinions, Lewis has every right to be disaapointed as are his fans, a podium finish gifted away

This is what we all saw.

Jenson comes out of it as the mature, intelligent driver while Lewis comes across as the d!ck head.

The Autosport headline quotes Hamilton as reckoning that the McLaren decision cost McL a 1-2 finish. I'm curious about this... seems to me that that's a little optimistic.

While the McLaren decision to call him in DID cost Lewis places at the finish, I think it's a little rich to say it cost him a second place - at no point in the race was he ahead of Robert Kubica - and if Hamilton couldn't pass Alonso with his new tires and going 1.8 seconds a lap faster when Alonso was on old rubber, I don't see how he thought he was going to magically vault in front of Kubica with worn rubber, when Kubica was, at the end, dropping both Massa and Alonso.

I bring this up, because I regularly hear about what a wonderful team player Hamilton is - I've thought that was bollocks since Monaco 2007....

Now - if Lewis was REALLY a team player, I think he would simply have stated that he was disappointed in the result (and he had good reason to be - he deserved better than 6th), and let us all infer the obvious suggestion that it wasn't his call.

Instead, he's making SURE (in interviews and on the radio) that everyone knows it was NOT his call - no - it was McLarens. And now, he's upgraded himself (dubiously, I think) to a possible second place....

Like almost all GP drivers, Lewis is a team player when he's winning, or trouncing his team-mate. It's easy to be such a team player - ask Michael Schumacher.

A single race where he has poor qualifying and then, to his obvious horror, has his team-mate WIN, sees him acting with the petulance with which I associate him, and suggests that the rumours of his wonderful team spirit are just that.


And with that, I'll retire - I don't wish to force anymore people to add me to their "ignore lists" due to my usual polemics...

Just saying.

I never thought of that. I wonder how many Lewis fans spend all their time spouting bile on other driver's threads, versus how many Lewis haters spend all their time talking about Lewis. They can't get enough of him! Maybe we could save up and buy them all a poster each!

It blows me away, the amount of effort these Lewis critiques go to, to either wind up people or vent their hatred of a guy they don't actually know. (the same applies to all drivers really)

I don't particularly like a couple of drivers, but I'm not going to waste my time trying convince others and myself, that they are anything other than talented.

Then again, I like Bruce, he makes me laugh, even though he asserts things that are incorrect.

Keep up the funnies Bruce

You know he'll emerge stronger from this, and he'll be driving at 115% in Malaysia, he'll drive his heart and lungs out.

Thats because he is good,it happen to Tiger,Jordan,and to guys like Rooney.When they are that talented,you always gonna have people that hate them,or love them.

Where does he say that Button let the team down? This is the final sentence in the article.

"Particularly as Button’s win owed nearly as much to chance as it did to his undoubted talent for tyre conservation"

He wasnt given the chance to pass Kubica because McLaren pitted him and he wasnt given the chance to pass Alonso because Webber took him out

"Hamilton’s only failing was that he, in contrast to Button and again to his own detriment, played the team game."

He still doesn't say that Button let the team down. Button did not play the team game and called his own strategy. IMO to his credit and something that Lewis should have done as well. But he does not say anywhere that Button let the team down.

I think that's a wee bit interpretive....

he WAS given the chance to pass Kubica - he sat behind him for enough laps - in fact - McLaren pulled him in because it looked like (and this is probably true) Kubica was holding him up. Ask yourself - why did McLaren pull him in? To ruin his race? No - because he was being held up and couldn't (apparently) do anything about it - you think McL would have pulled him in if he had been behind Button in 2nd?

Next, he did have a chance to pass Alonso - I was really shocked - I thought the Ferrari's were going to be sitting ducks - after all - LH and MW were almost 2 seconds (!) faster - and they STILL could do bugger all about jumping FA. In normal circumstances, you'd expect a car that's 2 seconds a lap faster to dispose of the slower car in a lap or two - Hamilton sat behind FA for - what - 3 laps? 4? 5? I'd have to watch it again, but, though it was getting close at the end, it was beginning to look like there was really now WAY by. This isn't a criticism of LH - it's a criticism of the cars - he COULDN'T pass. Webber's move was WAY optimistic - but in these cars that's what it takes.

We were spoiled at the start of the race - a wet track allowed passing. By the end, we were back to the situation at Bahrain, and Ferrari's (and Renault's) decision to keep the cars out effectively scuppered LH and MW.

Watch the races in the near future - it's going to become apparent quickly that a fast car on new tyres is no advantage over a slower car on worn rubber. MB kept mentioning the McLaren's amazing straightline speed - but it wasn't apparent as soon as lewis was behind FA.

He had 7 laps behind Kubica and did nothing. That's in all probabilty one of the main factors why McLaren decided to bring him in.

PS: Arghh, Bruce typed 20 lines more and still beat me to it, I guess I should think of retirement. Or changing teams. Now wait, it wasn't my fault! My wife called me away from the keyboard at the wrong time - terrible call that was.