... this gets funnier and funnier.

Are they secretly warming to LH in Spain? ... those were some very cool shots of a guy who is supposed to be a hate figure.

I suppose as fans we should be happy that the haters are getting their knickers in a twist, but to be honest they are taking it way to far, really bad

Well thats an opinion to ignore in the future.. lol..

I agree. This article in pitpass.com says the whipping up of the fans and media is not good at all. http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_fea...es_art_id=41275

I'm trying to figure out who's more rattled - alonso or seanspeed

Personally I like ATM_Andy's response in the macxa thread to a psoter who remarked that alonso seemed pretty upset with what happened in valencia,

'so?'

... when asked the same question FA reportedly said "no"... FA needs to get a grip on himself. The guy was having some kind of Shakespearian meltdow complete with deranged soliloqui in the last race.... and his team and fans in Spain think that was a good thing F1 is a tough sport. Its better to be whinged about than to be the one doing the whinging.

In fairness to alonso apparently there was more to it than that.
Yellowhelmet posted in the alonso thread something along the lines that he wouldn't partner him at macca but elsewhere no problem.
I've gradually started to respect alonso a lot since 2007, particularly when he went to the mclaren garage to congratulate hamilton at brazil 2008. He's generally articulate and thoughtful (and quite funny) in interviews too, although obviously I don't have the benefit of understanding him in spanish.
However it's clear that his emotions can get the best of him and, in if 2007 is any guide, it can hurt him.
Hamilton was alongside him in 2007 and made several comments then too, he knows what he's about I think.

... serves me right for relying on Legard.

I've liked FA since 2004 when I started to pay proper attention to him - and I still like him as a driver and as a celebrity (note I dont say person as I dont claim to know him). Sometimes he comes accross as one of the most adult guys on the grid but he clearly has a problem where LH is concerned (and probably vice versa). No amount of sensible comments and gracious congratulations can mask that.

...doesnt matter to me. I watch F1 for entertainment so the more they trashtalk and hate each other the better as far as I am concerned. What's going on with FA and LH is like little girls' arguments compared to stuff that's happened in the past. Hopefully the Spanish fans see it as a bit of fun and dont take it all too seriously. As for the Tifosi, I hope the opposite - I hope they all respond like Seanspeed. Should make the Macca domination after the Silverstone upgrade even more fun.

Really? This is a competitive sport. Do you not think that it's useful to try and get the psychological edge on your competitor? Lewis was totally right to rub it in a bit and he's right, Alonso shouldn't've let it effect his concentration in the race and it DID show a weakness. I say bring it on and lets face it, it'll make the rest of the season more interesting!

And that makes him a "twat"? Mate, throwing around language like that just negates whatever it is you're trying to say, and guarantees that the next page of the thread will be taken up with the fallout from your crude and unnecessary attack rather than constructive discussion. If you're here to troll, at least be subtle about it.

I actually agree with you that Hamilton was rubbing it in, and that on the face of it that his attitude might appear to be incongruous with the massive slice of luck he enjoyed in Valencia, but you have to accept that that's just how it goes in top level sport these days. Top athletes are encouraged to press home any perceived psychological advantage they have over their competitors. Alonso opened himself up to this approach by revealing to the whole world that he's rattled, and - dare I say it - mentally virtually 'shot', for this season at least. The late mistake he made in letting Kobayashi by, taken together with the radio transmissions we all heard of him continually moaning to his engineer throughout the race about the injustice of the Safety Car outcome and his subsequent allegations that the event had been manipulated are all clear signs of a guy who is in a very fragile mental state. Hamilton was responding to already quite incendiary comments by Alonso - for which the Spaniard is lucky to not be facing a charge of bringing the sport into disrepute. Hamilton's comments by comparison amount only to teasing, but he is pushing all the right buttons he needs to push to extract every possible benefit from Alonso's disturbed psychological state. I am quite sure, just from reading your posts, that with your exemplary morality you would never stoop so low, were you in Hamilton's shoes; please bear with him as a mere mortal sportsman - who is not an angel as you are - seeking to press home his psychological advantage over a talented rival.

The sad truth for Alonso fans is that Hamilton would not be making any comments at all to the media if Alonso had not made it clear by his mediocre driving after the SC affair that he's not the same driver when he's distracted in this way. In fact it is becoming increasingly obvious to all but Alonso's die hard fans that he's not the same driver as he was during his championship years. Since he's just about to turn 29, it's obviously not a question of his being physically past his peak - and indeed, he's lost none of his speed. Rather, it seems the main difference is in his head, and Hamilton and everyone else now knows that that is where he is most vulnerable.

I read this rather amusing snippet which was a comment following a typical Alonso boosting article in AS. I had been scrolling through expecting the usual hyper aggressive Hamilton baiting by the brainwashed Alonsomaniac hordes, but was surprised to see that there seems to have been a sea change in attitudes to the Asturian even in Spain. Whereas he was once universally held by Spanish F1 fans to be the best driver on the grid, it seems that a lot of fans are now surprisingly realistic about his abilities, and seemed to be cognizant of the fact that Hamilton has now outstripped him as the best driver in F1:

Qué mala suerte tiene Alonso! Unas veces es el compañero de equipo, otras veces el jefe, otra el coche, otra los doblados … sin embargo él nunca tiene culpa de nada, lo hace todo perfecto y aún así le salen mal las cosas, pobre !

Very free translation:

What bad luck Alonso always seems to have! If it isn't his teammate, it's the team principal; if it isn't the team principal, it's the car; if it isn't the car, it's the back markers....whatever, he's never to blame; he always does everything perfectly, but things keep turning out badly for the poor guy!

quite agree to use that word, I'm pretty disgusted. Quite frankly I amazed people are able to put themselves on such a pedastle to be so judgemental off others

Exactly... watch the Austurian TV clip earlier in this thread one more time... which driver looks like a winner (even if he does it by [allegedly] cheating) and which driver looks like a loser? That's not how you do it if you want to make LH look bad... so maybe that wasnt the plan.

Priceless

are you joking?
hamilton even complained after he was beaten fairly in monaco 2007




no change.
there were always also critical voices against alonso (what else?)
talking about changes if nothing changed

Fine. I'll to give you that one.

It's quite a stretch, but let's say Hamilton did throw the toys out of the pram after Monaco 2007.

But really, the fact that all you have is a single incident from Hamilton's rookie season, when he was up against the reigning 2xWDC just shows how weak a point you've made. He was 22 at the time; Alonso is soon-to-be 29, and as it seems, still whining and making excuses when he's beaten.

No that may be what Marca said, but in fact he just complained that he wasn't allowed to execute his strategy, being brought in early for his pitstop. Even then it was a very mild complaint.

One of many fantasies used by FA fans to explain away 2007.

Hamilton is on top of the world right now, exceptional run of results, beating his teammate constantly, deflecting every stewards investigation into meaningless reprimands or nonconsequential penalties, and so on.

And it shows, hybris rasing it's head once again, bigmouth is back, yo man!

At least twice I've seen him in this state before, what followed was a titanic cock-up in 2007 and almost a repeat one year later.

This is by no means over, the fun has just begun!

"I'm the no.2 driver" isn't mild by any stretch of the imagination.



Speaking of fantasies... What's there to explain away? In the end it was your boy who choked, throwing all that dirty hard work out of the window during the last races of the season.

Nice point of view, but I think not the right angle.

Lewis gave only an answer, IMO a correspondent to Alonsos allegations
Lewis could have been less polite

Didn't Alonso, in the exact same car, also lose the championship?

One was a rookie, the other McLaren hired to bring them a championship.

So really, who choked?

Let's just call it a different angle, okay?

We'll see in due time whose was closer to reality.

I always liked Lewis on track (minus some controversial stuff) and I think I always will, but this is too much, he have the chance to be a gentleman and he choose the opposite. And the funny thing is that Alonso is complaining about the stewards, not Hamilton.

and

gain

what?


Accusations of false "press talk", or NOTHING at all.

He's there to win a ****ing race for our amusement, not win YOUR heart.

Lewis has only had kind words to say about Alonso for years already when asked by the press for his opinion. It was met with NO response. He's played the gentleman.

It didn't work, and now there's the slightest hint that the guy might not be worth looking up to anyway any more...

What Lewis said wasn't bad at all. He said Yes to the journo, otherwise it was quite complimentary really.

One had it in the bag, safe for a meagre three points with three races to go, the other was only in with an outside shot at that time.

Hamilton wins the choking contest by a mile, I'd say. At least among the drivers, the team itself easily tops them both. As you said, hiring a WDC to bring them titles, bringing in a bright new star at the same time, only to end up with no results at all and 100 million less. An almost impossibe feat, even if one tried really hard...

2007 coming up again. Has to be a good sign .

I don't even see how how Lewis can be called "bigmouth" based on his most recent interviews. If you're referring to that "sour" article on the front page of AS, I don't even know if Lewis actually said that word as the article gave no indication of him actually saying it or anything similar in vain.

Please correct me if I'm wrong with substantial quotes/articles . Or are you another LH basher getting caught up with your own delusions?

EDIT: sorry, it's not 2007 all over again. Though I understand why you wish it to be

what Seanspeed is also forgetting is Alonso's whingin about 'race manipulation' etc were a bit of an insult to Lewis. Any sensible person knows such talk is absolute tripe and is a way to delegitimize the results.


He marginally broke the rules. It wasnt anything as blatant as Alonso, Ferrari and co would like you to believe...we see it from the pictures. He served the penalty. That the penalty didnt affect too much in the result is the coincidence of Kob. backing everyone else + Ham pulling in some fast laps b4 the drive thru. We already know the stewards are hardly ever speedy dishing out penalties even with blatant rule breaking so that was nothing new.

This is something that almost always happens when there is a safety car in F1, some gain some lose.... apart from Alonso's over-emotional outburst and red mist (pun intended), this was just one of those races. And you would feel for those that lose out normally...I feel for Massa.

Lewis has every right to respond to an apparent unhealthy obsession with him.
If he made no comment when continually asked by the media, rather than come across gentlemanly, it would come across more as validating Alonso's silly insinuations of 'manipulation' and 'conspiracy'...like Alonso was unto something.


When was the last time in F1 that we saw driver A totally lose it over what driver B is doing??... and they weren't teammates or in the deep end of a title race?

I'm really curious to know, I dont think its normal at all.

Both chokers

Alonso: Geez, my teammate is faster than me! Choked
Lewis: Shit, people actually expect me to win this thing? Choked.

In all honesty do you think lewis choked? Genuine question

I'd put his start in brazil down to pressure but the decision to leave him out on tyres was a combined mistake of a team who should have known better and a rookie who perhaps didn't have the confidence to make his own call.

And I don't think the mechanical problem was his fault...

I think that is unnecessary and unkind. You know, Hamilton cheated and he got the deserved penalty, end of the story. This is Ferrari vs Stewards not Hamilton vs Alonso. I wonder if someone told Hamilton "this & that" and he think that Alonso attacked him after the race, something that is not true.

Not really. He had an entire pitstop in hand over FA in China but the team wasted it. In Brazil there was a gearbox reset they hadn't practiced, a bad choice of cooling package, and a bad strategy call.

What I want to know is what some of the more extreme Alonso fans will do if Hamilton wins this year's WDC by a handfull of points from FA? Is it possible to melt down, explode and implode all at the same time?

I know. but it doesn't matter even the error was entire his own, he's a rookie.

I just hope 1% of the stress, angst, terror, anger, bitterness etc shown by alonso's fans in this thread is actually harboured by alonso himself.

Because he is screwed if thats the case.

Well the journos were egging him on, for sure. But for Hammy to say it's not like Fernando to be overtaken by a Sauber is quite complimentary I think. Then saying he must have been distracted for it to happen. Not too bad.

is this alonso or Hamilton thread?

I find it deliciously ironic that it is Alonso and now Briatore complaining of race manipulation. Although they are probably the experts so maybe they do know!

It is so very very very funny

Alonso embarrassed himSELF by being overtaken by the Sauber rookie. Hamilton pointed out that this happening was unusual for someone like Alonso, who he held in high regard.

You serious??

Maybe choking isn't the optimum term, but close enough. I'm not only looking at the races but also the surrounding interviews, etc. ("We're not racing Kimi" still stands out! ). Arrogance, over-confidence, call it what you want. The team may have played it's part in the bald tyre affair, but it was Hamilton who apparently thought it beneath him to just bring home the title safely and instead tried to show off. Same again when he felt the need to attack Alonso on the back straight in Brazil. And the "magnetic glitch"... better not go there again. Let's just say it remains one of the great mysteries of F1.

According to the BBC, Briatore has said he should be blackflagged.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8772353.stm

Briatore knows all about race fixing!!! FACT ;)

People do seem to forget that 2007 was his ROOKIE season and still stands as the most successfull in the history of the sport so far. Did he win the championship? No, but do we really care three years on? No.

He's a WDC and is looking on course for another shot, so what matters is now.

no, apparently, he just hadn't learned how to play the championship game yet. your contempt for him is just...unbelievable.

http://en.espnf1.com/europe/motorsport/story/21780.html

He also says Ferrari are not on the level of Red Bull and McLaren

It was great from Koba, but by no means the wonder pass of the century. The Sauber had good race pace all day and fresh options with massive grip at that time. His lines and braking points even before the pass should make that obvious to everyone.

Except for those who'd like to revell in sentences like "Alonso embarrassed himSELF by being overtaken by the Sauber rookie". Which is fair enough from a Hamilton fan, or someone who just doesn't like Alonso, everyone has a right to enjoy his moment in the sun.

The only thing is that Hamilton has lowered himself to the same level with his snide remarks. He, of all people, should know how it goes sometimes. Not so long ago he was overtaken by Petrov in a Renault and needed a funny waltz down the straight and all the goodwill of the stewards to keep him behind.

That is the funniest thing I've read all week. Who's next to give evidence? Is Tony Blair going to present a dossier to the FIA?

With friends like this....

petrov didnt pass hamilton you are making things up

Jesus christ.

Maradona will be complaining about someone beating Argentina with a goal scored with a handball next.