I honestly believe RBR has the best line up of all the teams this year. Mark should push Vettel all the way this year, and as long as luck is on his side for a change he might even be able to sneak a small points win over Seb at season end. If Vettel can show the speed he did last year and cut out the errors, though, that's one darn tough ask for Mark. I'll be happy if Mark ends the season less than a win behind Vettel (so max 25 points behind) if Vettel has a stormer, and I firmly believe Mark has that in him.

As for other teams ... Button had a great year last year, and on paper McLaren have the last two WDC's. I still don't rate Button, though. Rubens consistently outperformed Button when their cars were bad, and that was across multiple seasons. Same goes for Button against other team mates in the past. He's great when everything is going well, and loses the plot a bit when things fall away. Vettel = Hamilton, Mark > Button ... in my opinion, of course.

At Merc there's an undisputed great with MS, but he's not going to be at his best until part way through the season, if at all. Still a brilliant driver, put him at the Lewis/Vettel level for now. Rosberg ... again, Mark's ahead.

Alonso and Massa. Now here's a tough one. Looks like Massa's accident last year hasn't left a big dent in his head mentally so far. Alonso at Lewis/Vettel/MS level. Massa if 100% mentally is above Jenson and Rosberg for me. Roughly equal to Mark, but the Aussie in me says Mark can do the job - but only barely. What holds back Ferrari though, is my worry that there's going to end up being disharmony between Massa and Alonso and that's going to affect them on track. Whether that be the two of them pushing too hard against each other, or Ferrari choosing one over the other, there's going to be friction that holds one of them back just that little bit.

Conversely I see Mark and Vettel working very well together, and they know each other well from last year (unlike the other three teams).

Let's just hope the RBR car is competitive on speed, and reliable. I think both Vettel and Webber are capable of taking the title that being the case.

I honestly believe RBR has the best line up of all the teams this year. Mark should push Vettel all the way this year, and as long as luck is on his side for a change he might even be able to sneak a small points win over Seb at season end. If Vettel can show the speed he did last year and cut out the errors, though, that's one darn tough ask for Mark. I'll be happy if Mark ends the season less than a win behind Vettel (so max 25 points behind) if Vettel has a stormer, and I firmly believe Mark has that in him.

As for other teams ... Button had a great year last year, and on paper McLaren have the last two WDC's. I still don't rate Button, though. Rubens consistently outperformed Button when their cars were bad, and that was across multiple seasons. Same goes for Button against other team mates in the past. He's great when everything is going well, and loses the plot a bit when things fall away. Vettel = Hamilton, Mark > Button ... in my opinion, of course.

At Merc there's an undisputed great with MS, but he's not going to be at his best until part way through the season, if at all. Still a brilliant driver, put him at the Lewis/Vettel level for now. Rosberg ... again, Mark's ahead.

Alonso and Massa. Now here's a tough one. Looks like Massa's accident last year hasn't left a big dent in his head mentally so far. Alonso at Lewis/Vettel/MS level. Massa if 100% mentally is above Jenson and Rosberg for me. Roughly equal to Mark, but the Aussie in me says Mark can do the job - but only barely. What holds back Ferrari though, is my worry that there's going to end up being disharmony between Massa and Alonso and that's going to affect them on track. Whether that be the two of them pushing too hard against each other, or Ferrari choosing one over the other, there's going to be friction that holds one of them back just that little bit.

Conversely I see Mark and Vettel working very well together, and they know each other well from last year (unlike the other three teams).

Let's just hope the RBR car is competitive on speed, and reliable. I think both Vettel and Webber are capable of taking the title that being the case.

2010 is make or break year for Mark. If he can't perform this year, then he needs to make way for someone who can.

So the year after he won 2 grands prix and managed something like 8 podiums in all, 2010 is his make or break year? Man, what is your problem? You're irrational, to put it politely. Webber did a damn good job in 2009 and, if the Red Bull is as good this year, I'd expect him to take another few wins. I don't know if he's going to win the driver's championship -- if I were a betting man I'd put money on Vettel, to be honest -- but I wish Webber all the best and hope he does well.

Why would anyone be so vindictive about a racing driver?

Very anti Webber aren't you? Quali last year was alot closer when fuel adjusted. Webber made less mistakes than Vettel last year and if not for a couple of bad races quite often things out of his control he could have been right there at the end fighting for WDC with Button and Vettel. You joking right saying he doesn't have what it takes and I'm sure you will be eating your words as the season goes on. I think it will be very close again between the two.

I suspect Seb has the raw pace, but Mark is formidable racer, so the outcome is far from certain.

THe irony is that until last year peopel said the exact opposite about Webber.

I honestly believe RBR has the best line up of all the teams this year. Mark should push Vettel all the way this year, ...

The only reason webber performed better in 2009 was bcs Vettel carried on the early development of the car. Webber only seized from Vettel's develpment skills.

Oh, yeah...

Care to explain the one year contract renew thing of Webber and RedBull ?

In my POV:
> Ferrari and McLaren = 2WDC drivers. ReBull = 0WDC.
So far Vettel only wants to push-push-push. Vettel needs to think the championship strategically to become WDC.

> Horner is a commercial partner of webber, however, Mastetshitz doesn't consider webber a WDC and offered little money to renew his contract or just one year waiting fo a better driver.

> When Webber was the first driver, he could never develop his car in a satisfatory rate to challenge the big teams.
The only reason webber performed better in 2009 was bcs Vettel carried on the early development of the car. Webber only seized from Vettel's develpment skills.

Only 3 pages and the Aussie brigade has once again derailed the thread by overreacting to one guys posts. Alfisti can you please take your trash talking elsewhere and can we focus on the drivers and how they perform. Preferably without paranoid bickering.

Only 3 pages and the Aussie brigade has once again derailed the thread by overreacting to one guys posts. Alfisti can you please take your trash talking elsewhere and can we focus on the drivers and how they perform. Preferably without paranoid bickering.

So we can assume your "point of view" is based on specific statements directly from Dietrich Mateschitz (that's how you spell his name incidentally)? Please direct us to a reliable quote from a respected media source that confirms this...

Oh, yeah...

Care to explain the one year contract renew thing of Webber and RedBull ?

In my POV:
> Ferrari and McLaren = 2WDC drivers. ReBull = 0WDC.
So far Vettel only wants to push-push-push. Vettel needs to think the championship strategically to become WDC.

> Horner is a commercial partner of webber, however, Mastetshitz doesn't consider webber a WDC and offered little money to renew his contract or just one year waiting fo a better driver.

> When Webber was the first driver, he could never develop his car in a satisfatory rate to challenge the big teams.
The only reason webber performed better in 2009 was bcs Vettel carried on the early development of the car. Webber only seized from Vettel's develpment skills.

Oh, yeah...

Care to explain the one year contract renew thing of Webber and RedBull ?

In my POV:
> Ferrari and McLaren = 2WDC drivers. ReBull = 0WDC.
So far Vettel only wants to push-push-push. Vettel needs to think the championship strategically to become WDC.

> Horner is a commercial partner of webber, however, Mastetshitz doesn't consider webber a WDC and offered little money to renew his contract or just one year waiting fo a better driver.

> When Webber was the first driver, he could never develop his car in a satisfatory rate to challenge the big teams.
The only reason webber performed better in 2009 was bcs Vettel carried on the early development of the car. Webber only seized from Vettel's develpment skills.

It has nothing to do with opinions, I was called a fanboy for defending Vettel then called a Webber fanboy ... i can be only one.

You are giving way too much credence to driver development buddy.
If your car sucks, then so do you in Formula One.

Uhmmm...

Last year Vettel demolished the Webber, King of Qualifying Mith... for good.

To prove Webber could never do a good job in car set up is a much easier one.

We know due to his outstanding job at Tororosso that Vettel can deliver.

Please, explain the one years contract renewing of Webber.

I can't read it as RedBull giving that much value for MW.

Uhmmm...

Last year Vettel demolished the Webber, King of Qualifying Mith... for good.

To prove Webber could never do a good job in car set up is a much easier one.

We know due to his outstanding job at Tororosso that Vettel can deliver.

Oh yeah - Vettel had that Torro Rosso singing in the first half of 2008...

Vettel made a pole and win for Minardi, something that Webber and even Alonso couldn't do.

Vettel made a pole and win for Minardi, something that Webber and even Alonso couldn't do.

This is supposed to be a thread about Vettel vs Webber during the coming season. Most of us are supportive of both drivers...

To have either of them maligned by ill-informed, irrational and unsubstantiated fanboy accusations simply pollutes the thread for everyone.

Maybe you should try a different thread, or preferably a different board.

Oh my mistake - I thought he was driving for Torro Rosso?

As I intimated above - obviously too subtlely for you - he was freakin' NOWHERE before they received the upgraded chassis and Ferrari engines. Then bam! - Monza.

Same small-budgeted-Ferrari-powered-Italian-Team.

Ask Gio if they share the same address... eh!

Oh my mistake - I thought he was driving for Torro Rosso?

The Red Bull backed Torro Rosso of the last few seasons does not compare to the Minardi of old - even if the team is still located at the same address.

If you support both drivers, the Versus thread is non-sense, right ?

Why this thread should have a different nature of
Alonso vs Massa
and
Hamilton vs Button
?

I'm debating why Webber had his contract renewed for one year only.
If MW is so good, why one year ?
Is it a paradigm breaker ?
Is RedBull offering too little for Webber and he refused a long term ?
Is RedBull waiting for a better option in the long term ? Ricciardo for example.
Is webber waiting for a better team next year ?
If Webber is actually not righ rated in RedBull, is it due to Horner or Dieter M oppinion ?

Why can't I have this debate in this board

Is this debate still going on?....Vettel was far from his best last year(or he would be champion right now) and still he beat Webber easily as expected. Who thinks anything will change this year when Vettel is more settled into RBR. Webber will get his ass kicked.

Webber only silver lining is that Merc want Vettel so he will have to only face him till 2012.

Is this debate still going on?....Vettel was far from his best last year(or he would be champion right now) and still he beat Webber easily as expected. Who thinks anything will change this year when Vettel is more settled into RBR. Webber will get his ass kicked.

Webber only silver lining is that Merc want Vettel so he will have to only face him till 2012.

Vettel was 'far from his best' in the year in which he won 4 GPs and was thought by many to be the star driver of the year -- eh? Wouldn't 2009, Vettel's most successful year, be by definition, his best? He just fell short of the driver's championship because of some errors and poor luck. OK -- well, that happens, especially for young guys like him.

2010 will be a fascinating year for many reasons, not the least of which is in seeing how a young up-and-comer like Vettel will fare in comparison to the returning great veteran Schumacher -- and -- in the middle of all this, how someone like Webber, experienced, seasoned campaigner that he is, will follow up his best year ever. Will he improve, will he falter? Who knows -- NO ONE knows. That's the whole reason why he watch with such anticipation.

I would never be foolish enough to make such bold declarations like 'Webber will get his ass kicked' -- maybe, maybe not. Maybe Vettel will crack under the pressure of expectation? It's happened to many a young sportsman before and it could happen to him too. I won't know -- and neither will you -- until the cars are racing.

Vettel beat Webber last year so i'd go with Vettel again. I know that Webber had physical difficulties to overcome in the first part of the season but even at seasons end more often than not Vettel seemed to have the beating of Webber. Also factor it that Vettel after last seasons experience should be even better prepared whilst Webber really isn't going to get any better then definitely Vettel

I think you will find that Weber still has some improving in him.
Not just the benefit of a full winter program, but as we all saw..
MW dropped the ball last year.

The middle of the season was his, he was faster and more consistent than Vettel (with the exception of his poor qualifying)
After his win it all went to hell.

That (in my unqualified and unprofessional opinion) was the result of letting go after so much pressure (from himself and others) to get his first F1 win.

I expect his qualifying to improve, as many (not just his fans) have noted he was much slower in Q3 than Q2 and this is not consistent with MWs performance over the years.
He was also way to slow on out laps, often taking 2-4 laps to get back in the swing.
I think this is the same issue that was effecting his Q3s

As for Vettel, he had already improved.
By the end of the year he was not making the same mistakes he made in the beginning.

It will be close again this year as it was in 09, anyone saying it was not close is choosing to ignore the races that went into the final result.

P.S. to the Vettel supporters here claiming MW is not that good and should move over for younger drivers....
seriously think about what that makes SV,
if all he can do is shade out a driver you consider sub par and not even worthy of a seat.

I'm not one of those that says Webber is over the hill but its clear Vettel had the better season, of course Webber could turn it around this coming season like Massa did relative to Kimi, but Vettel giving he has more room for improvement has to be favourite

Vettel was 'far from his best' in the year in which he won 4 GPs and was thought by many to be the star driver of the year -- eh? Wouldn't 2009, Vettel's most successful year, be by definition, his best? He just fell short of the driver's championship because of some errors and poor luck. OK -- well, that happens, especially for young guys like him.

2010 will be a fascinating year for many reasons, not the least of which is in seeing how a young up-and-comer like Vettel will fare in comparison to the returning great veteran Schumacher -- and -- in the middle of all this, how someone like Webber, experienced, seasoned campaigner that he is, will follow up his best year ever. Will he improve, will he falter? Who knows -- NO ONE knows. That's the whole reason why we watch with such anticipation.

I would never be foolish enough to make such bold declarations like 'Webber will get his ass kicked' -- maybe, maybe not. Maybe Vettel will crack under the pressure of expectation? It's happened to many a young sportsman before and it could happen to him too. I won't know -- and neither will you -- until the cars are racing.

... I´d say Vettel lost more points due to his own errors, while Webber lost points due to bad luck with the car and strategic calls...

Really? I must have seen a different movie then.