Hmmmmmm....



Once upon a time, in a land far away, there lived a little..........

No maybe I should leave that fairy story for some other date, there seems to be enough fairy stories here already.

Its usually the other way around Seb can't look at Mark who is obviously pizzedoff about something,poisonous atmosphere around these two according to journos(well some).I can't see them getting thru this season and also the next without a major drama of some kind.

Daily News flash.."Webber breaks Vettels finger after missing out on Pole."
..RB will have to work long into the night to find a new way of stuffing up this GP as fans are growing tired of the "poor pit stop strategy" routine.

jeez that's a bit rough. to be honest weve all said seb was an immature brat when he acted similar to mark did today at losing out in qually. I actually cant see how seb handled webber ignoring him poorly. he made no deal out of it at all actually unless I missed something? and webber is hardly an underwear model haha.

but I swear, if I have to see him shove that finger around like a tool anymore I'm going to lose it. makes me feel like slapping him stupid.

and lets not forget webber got last run in qually this time. red bull getting a little redemption. I loved horners remark when EJ asked him how long it will be before web and vet get on again and he said "about 15 years." it must be such a relief to him that he's able to say something truthful for once

This thread is crawling with dickheads, honestly its unreadable.

and webber is hardly an underwear model haha

Blasphemer! Have a go at his driving, no problem there, but his hotness is totally not in question!



Mmmm...

...Excuse me for a couple of minutes...

He's a little confused. Vettels the one copying Webbers setup - you can hear it in past press conferences and it turns up in polite conversation when people ask why Webber has been signed so early in the season for the past 2 years.

Great job by both drivers today. Seb being better in S3 was the difference.

MW HTFU on Vettel. Gloves are off.

Its a bit of fun,i don't think many of the Posters that are F-1 fans take it too seriously,anyone with half a brain knows there is bugger all difference between them with Seb. obviously having a brighter future with RB because of his age and background.

Webber has improved his consistency from last year. Doesn't seem to have big blowouts between him and Vettel, in defeat he is always really close (barring Bahrain).

Vettel

Australians not such good losers after all?

i dunno, we've been getting almost as much practice as the english lately!

Touche - poor choice of argument ...

My ugly comment was in regards to advertising, this is where I think he is lacking, when you look at it from a sponsor's point of view; I don't blame him for it ! ;)

I used to like Seb just fine, his boyish freshness and openness, yet Turkey left a bad taste for me - I believe he acted like a spoilt brat, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway, now I just can't see that finger anymore .

As for his driving, he can be incredibly quick in qualy, and can hold any pace he needs when he's leading - but which driver can't, unless there are car issues ?
I've yet to see him handling a tight wheel-to-wheel situation well; when he attacked Lewis in Kanada after the start, his moves looked very dangerous and shaky to me, I was holding my breath, fearing the worst for Lewis safety .

Can't for the life of me think who he is alluding to!

I noticed that Mark's final Q3 lap had no green sectors at all, never mind purple. Looked to me like he was not trying.

Car problem?

No, I am not interested in hearing more rants about team bias, or clauses in his contract, or ... whatever. I just think that it did not look like a banzai quali lap from the start, and I immediately thought 'gearbox'.

So, has anyone heard anything other than the 3rd sector story?

He set his fastest lap of qually, so he *must* have set at least one green sector. Probably two given the minor S3 error (minor compared to Hammy's). IIRC I remember hearing the BBC commentators mention that Mark's and Hammy's 1st sectors were almost identical to Vettel's, and Vettel's had been a purple.

Mark's lap was less than a 10th off Vettel's. How you can say "he wasn't trying" I have no idea.

Wasn't Mark's S2 split 0.01 off Seb's? Mark clearly lost the lap in S3 as overall he was down a tenth. It was close, but Mark should have managed pole given he had the later run.

No, it was 0.001 IIRC!

I think he made a mistake at turn 20 as he ran a bit wide over the kerb it seemed so that could be what cost him pole?

Well there you go, S2 splits was EVEN closer than what I had thought.

Mark's body language post qualifying said it all. When he gets beaten and knows he max'ed out his personal performance ceiling he is absolutely fine. When he knows there was more time to extract or when he makes a mistake he gets really annoyed with himself, and it was clear for all to see that Mark was not happy with himself.

I was watching the timing, and I did not see a green for his final lap. Did anyone else? I am happy to be corrected, I want him to be driving hard in a solid car, but I did not see green.

It would not be the first time the live timing has played up, and that may be the explanation. I hope so, or maybe my age is catching up with me and my colour vision is going as well as all the other things that I know about!!

In any case I have my fingers crossed for a good result for both tonight, as long as they finish in front of the McLarens and Fazzas I will be happy.

First 2 sectors were definitely green. Don't remember about the last sector for certain though, but I think it must have been.

I think jez is right about post-quali.

Webber wasnt happy with him self,but its just bad luck.

Vettel has made mistakes in qualy in the past and Webber gained an advantage from that,it just goes to show how good you have to be to get pole.

Anything less than perfect and you pay the price.

Im a Webber fan but i really admire Vettels ability to put down a flying lap when it counts.His pole lap In Australia was brilliant,best lap of the year so far along with Webbers Monaco pole lap.

They are great adversaries and its something that us fans can all sit back and enjoy as the season unfolds.

For such a smart bloke is there any reason you just just get such a ****ing hate on for certain things? **** off honestly.

Yea. I'm not registered here for a long time but i'm already sick of the culture on this forum. Fanboyism, conspiracy theories, driver bashing etc. It's worse to read then a video game forum.

What an epic clusterfuck. WDC challenge terminated, that was horrible driving right from turn one.

Slightly OT, when Mark starts I see his car jump quickly and you think "sweet, good start" but he always gets gobbled up over the first 100 or so metres. Weird.

Mark Webber's red mist returns in a MAJOR way.

Dreadful start. One of his worst driving weaknesses manifests itself at a critical point in the championship. How do you lose 7 places jousting at the first few turns!?

The way this season has gone I wouldn't write off the WDC yet - but that was a shambles. The only good thing to come out of it is that he walked away from that huge shunt.

Exactly the reason why Mark won't become WDC. He simply cannot keep his head when he needs to.

I think he overestimated the braking ability of the Lotus. The accident happened around the 100m mark but watching the leaders braking for the same corner, they seem to brake a bit later than that. No fault of Heikki's though...

Seems like Heikki made a second move to get back on the racing line at the same time Mark went to take the racing line. Heikki caught Mark by surprise and braked earlier.

Tough incident to call blame for I think, although Heikki did change his line twice and when you do that with a car in your slipstream you can invite trouble. Very lucky no one was hurt.

The incident itself is not really the issue because it appears a simple misunderstanding, these things happen. It's the drop from P2 to P9 that kills me.

What a difference a tenth makes, i said that a few races back when Webber nabbed pola nd won and Vettel had a shocker ..... man that tenth is priceless.

Its more than just the tenth in qualifying though.

Mark had a disgraceful start, and then went on to an even more disgraceful set of first few corners, then got frustrated behind the Williams due to his error at the beginning. Things got a little worse with the left front issue during the pitstop but at that stage he should have kept his head, give the early strategy a chance to try and salvage some points but he saw red and lost it running into the back of a Lotus.

This is the reason he cannot mount a WDC challenge. He needs to limit the damage when things dont work out but it more than often just goes the other way when he loses the plot.

Pretty obvious the blinkers you have on when you use a word like "disgraceful" to describe his start. Bad, yes. They still haven't shown what happened with him and Button though.

And Kova moved twice then braked suddenly, hardly straightforward Mark's fault.

Dropping from 2nd to 9th in the space of a few corners is disgraceful. Looked like Mark was just too timid during that crucial jousting phase, as we have seen him do all too often the past.



100% Mark's fault for running into the back of Kova. Mark was clearly frustrated with his launch, then losing those places, then getting stuck behind Hulkenberg, then the bad pitstop, but that does not absolve him from responsibility of using a car in front as a catapult during a botched overtake manouevre.

Wow, it was a bad start on the dirty side of the track, he got caught off line and wound up 5th. Been far worse starts made before. Clearly something happened with Button because he suddenly went from 5th to 9th having after having looked like he'd settled into 5th. Calling it "disgraceful" is just overdramatic in an attempt to overemphasise your point that Webber is a bad dangerous driver.

The funny thing is if Mark had defended aggressivly, which he wasn't in much of a position to do, and had wound up in an incident you probably would've wound up saying "Oh there Makr is, causing another collision". Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.



Already explained this one, Heikki moved twice then braked very early, the replay very clearly states this. Obviously Mark is the one who ran into Heikki but considering Heikki's behaviour, you can understand why Mark was confused.

I had high hopes after qualy but unfortunately it seems that Mark never goes well at Valencia...

Weekend goes to Seb

Decent qualy from Mark but a race that he will want to forget...

Seb wins the point.

Very poor effort in pretending to have scored a world cup winning goal for South Africa in South Africa, a true sporting shock win to bring on emotion or something? Why not a simple thumbs up.

Onwards towards a Webber WDC

Id also like to know what happened between turn 2 where Webber was 5th and several corners later where he turned up in 9th. Shocking, awful start.

The funny thing is that if he hadn't got airborne those hard tires may have taken him to the end. May have made up a fair few places...

Then there would be no safety car ;) and it wouldn't get much gain, maybe a place or two.

They should of course pit to cover him off, if the strategists aren't taking a siesta.

Heikki wandered around - and didn't hold a particular line. Every other start on the grid today from 2nd was poor as well - and you're blaming him for the pitstop issue as well.

Perhaps one of the most mentally lazy posts in these forums - full of predictable mental vomit. A pointless ill informed post hardly worth a response.

Great drive by Seb.

BS plain and simple.

Boxed out = boxed out.

Next time to take pole by .025s instead, just need to squeeze that extra tenth over "i've won the world cup and/or superbowl hooray - what it was a dreary processional motor race where I had no competition? - huh interesting" Vettel ;)

I suspect he outbraked himself and went wide heading down to the bridge - the car looked really loose in the first few corners. Whether he lost too much heat out of the tires waiting on the grid or ran offline and covered them in dust I don't know...

Jenson mentioned something about him, Mark and Kubica being three abreast at one stage, so I'm guessing Mark was the loser in that exchange and that it cost him the positions to the Williams as well.

All in all a race to forget.

I agree and today I even yelled with excitement "great start from Webber" as he moved really quickly but then the others came breezing past! I wonder if the clutch slip was delayed? I've no idea. Trying to go round the outside of Massa/Alonso was a huge mistake as that invited a string of cars through on the inside.
Think he was boiling with adrenaline after that.
It's very hard -when someone drives into the back of another - to put the blame on the driver infront, but what the fcuk was Kovalainen doing?? Weeving and he appeared to me to brake very early. Reminded me of Alonso/DC Nürburgring '03. Nasty accident and the third time Webber has flipped around!

I guess I was assuming that the whole dimension of the race would have been changed, maybe others would crash etc. Completely different things could have happened without the long safety car period.

Also Webber lost 4 seconds on his pitstop when the front left wouldn't come off...

Webber boxed himself out.

Once he was overtaken by Lewis [or alonso], he should have tried to defend his spot finding a place behind Lewis to stabilize his position in the race.

MW just freaked out due to his bad start and lost himself and the track references, dropping positions one-by-one.

Who else in the race lost 3 places off the line?



How is it "clear" that something happened between Mark and Jenson when we didnt even see it?



Why was he confused? He chose to follow Kova left to pick up the tow, lost awareness of the closing speeds and the fact there was a corner to brake for, and caused the accident.

How does Kova wandering around cause Mark to run into the back of him at 190+ mph? He followed Heikki right, then he followed Heikki left, then bang.

Mark constantly loses his head when things dont go right for him, and at this point he starts making really bad driving decisions. The accident with a Lotus, of all cars, is just another example of making a bad driving decision when Mark has lost his cool. Its not the first time its happened either, in fact, its actually very synonymous with Mark's driving history. The inability to be mentally strong enough when it counts.

Btw when did I blame him for the pitstop issue? I said the issue was one of the reasons Mark saw red today, and when he sees red he starts driving erratically cf. Melbourne.

I decided to post no longer because so much bull crapped a lot of threads but I have to say what a huge relief to see Mark get away from that horror crash. He must be the most experienced flyer in racing after that one.

Pretty sad to read some stuff after my heart almost plunged after I saw Mark flying away and crashing into the barrier.

Well done FIA and RBR and that safety cell.


H2H