Hello addicted race fans! I´m too addicted very very long time ago (look at my signatue). but i have plans about a half of a dozens very cheap series they much cost maybe an 0,1 of this was the buck today are you have to pay, but here it´s:

1. F5000 alias f6200 with the ls3 (correct i mean the 6.2 with the 436 dopple exhausted for the corvette) this engine cost by a the cheapest dealer in U.s ca. 5.200 but enough i know myself it is unrealistic. My price whom i looked were ca a litlle about 6.000 $. This engine has 6.200 ccm or 376 cubic/inch has 436 HP stock! And without the generator ( you must only have a 200 $ battery perhaps a second for shure) you can drop easily 20 hp to that 436 HP. Exhausted they can with dyno and a few experimence hold (think no catalysator only this make 5-10 hp). You have than at least 460 Hp. Dynoed it (you find cause you have a point to find were the torque come al little bit earlier) another 2 or 5 Hp or nothing but maked at a differece? than you have ca. 465 Hp. Ohhh forget not the intake system, easily 5-10 Hp add more, not a single problem. Than you have beetween 470-475 HP, no blueprinting (to much cost). think you have an garantuee at least of 12.000 miles of the sensitives system on the engine. With 475 HP that is really a stock block, believe me my beloved racing addictes and forumfriends. The company they were built such a engine had a rebuilt system with at least 8000 almost 10.0000 miles. I guareented that why? 'This engine ist one of the best for cheapest racing excet Fvee from south africa, (unfortunate toomuch power 20 HP lesser were for the reliable engine very better, but´s another story) The best machine ist the Mazda rotary 13b rebuilt 250 hours or 300 hours that were not stories that was the absolutely true, but i underrated the realibity from the engine most of them have many more hours ont their engine (requirement is absolutely hold the defaults) than you have no rebuilt perhaps all 400 hours or 10 years of long racing or more i don`t know it. Maybe 15 years depends track time you need yearly. This engine is a ball for all addicted racer they have not so´much money like the rich kids. There job ist son of the rich father....But i and the most other here have not the opportunity and that is the truth. oHH: i have developed (not so good like the pros. I´m a amateur but i know so much in the about 40 years i have interest of racing and especially since 10 years this ideas let me not in peace! In the nights ( i need only 4 hours sleep than i´m fit and enjoys the next day). I can´t silent again and i have a very little segment about my ideas to write on this wonderful place!
A other idea: the absolutely entrance formula for amateurs and a entrance for spec touring cars ( i favourite the formula with open wheels)
You know the old f500 in the 40-years and 50-years. Thinking: you can´t make a almost identical formula they want never allowed those dangerous cars and i have much to do to built or developed the cars a lot of more shure for driving.
A 1 cylindre 4 valves in stock form can produce 50 Hp, with a little working on this machine again no blue printing, dyno again, no genearator adds ca. 5 Hp more, than you have 55 Hp, enough for an entrance formula with amateurs!
115 mp/h is very fast for an entrance and only the hard thing is to buy the two suspension in Poland or such states in the East i research on internet you have to pay about 200 € only you have extra brakes for the front. But the cheapest brakes cost al little more than 150€. The engine Honda is a very special engine you know 100 ps/litre ís for a one cylindre engine very much and the engine have ca. 6.800 U/min to become the power. But you have a dyno, this wonderful thing of tool!
The weight from the car without driver is 275 KG with all the updates i have to make, the car have a lot to be save than the original, but with driver the max, weighth is 360 KG and you have with lesser than as 6000 € an dream with not so much money but i want to work on this ideas more in the next week, there is much more potential than mine and i hope you enjoy a littel bit this, what i´m writing to you and if you have no interest delete simply the thread. I can imagine here a lot of boys they have no
money problems and that is for me absolutey ok, but i must write this letter for all why I have the ball found and i know it needs countlees more.

So enough from this: Spec Miatra is only for the touring fans wich have to much fair for open-wheel. But that is today with correct work on safety not problem, but one thing i will no compromised: HANS is for me not only a must it´s a Basic !.

I have ideas about the Nissan 350 Z look at the very popular, I have so much tell you about so hot Fvee clone about the best Fvee in my eyes the best compromise in the world and it is here never the end of my story. I will my whole live working on 5 entrance series, and two for entrance and amateurs but pros
Pricen all what i say (Only exception ist Starmazda, there will be not for amateurs, entrance). But believe me or not I had in the last 5 month every minute i had for this thema take my time . Since 10 years i have the vision why i knowed instantly that is all too expensive, think ff or fvee european or stock hatch. I forgot a little to say about stoke hatch, but if you want you will hear a littel about my stock hatch version...
A very, very requirement is a rich man he will a very better situation for grassroot-racing but i believe i will never find such a wise and rare man... but than it was only dreams but the hope dies at last...

You shared a little bit of my work?

Than you has the right boy for many, many countless exchange of ideas and perhaps many more....!!!
in the way of a good sunday and wish you all (negative or positive answers if i have become replys--)

thomaskomm

sorry for much mistake on my pc but my keyboard ist not more ok and i have to buy a new one( tomorrow is a good day) Please forgive me against the mistakes but is was never, really never a joy for wrote on this damned thing! The keyboard is perhaps too old or perhaps i´m to little exciting to write this wonderful board! I wanting to work on this problem tomorrow again! Promised!
thomaskomm

The keyboard might not be okay but you could still hit Enter/Return a few times to make your original post more readable. You started nicely with "1." but I kept waiting for a "2." and it never appeared.

Anyway I like your idea of using production motor, LS3 crate motors would be great. As are LS7 and LS7.R. AFAIK these are the best bang for your buck motors available to anyone with the required cash. I am not sure where you are getting a cheap open wheel chassis though. Also, certain expenses cannot be avoided no matter how cheap the car, gearbox and engine: travelling and lodging, transporting cars to track, tires, replacing damaged bodywork, a qualified mechanic etc.

It would be difficult to have a series that is significantly cheaper than F2. You might be able to undercut them by a hundred thousand max. But then you would have to spend so much more to make the series visible (and viable) since you do not have support from FIA.

The LS engine is a great idea.

It sounds so cool.
Would have gained some popularity to the lower Formula series if they used one of those corvette engines.

The LS2 is a bad idea, people will spend fortunes cheating it because your starting with a low stressed engine that has large margins for gains. Far better to go to a high stress engine that even if people improve it the difference is marginal percentage wise - one reason why bike powered anythings are so popular in the world at the moment, a $2000 used good stocker can stay in touch with the hottest $20,000 engine on the track because the standard motor is already near it's limit.

The other problem with LS2 is the power and weight it has requiring more expensive everything else to house it, chassis through to brakes.

An ideal engine would be something like a standard spec Honda K20 Type R engine for the same reasons, say a 260hp spec (that will last a season) and if someone cheats well they will only be 10 odd hp up on you. Obviously the chassis would be about halfway between a BEC and a LS powered one. Oh and that would be a transverse setup too so none of those stupidly priced transaxles neede for a longitudal setup.

Hi cheapracer, i talk not about the ls2 but the ls3, this a absolutely better engine have rev limit from 6600 U/min and they were careful about this limit a had read manytimes the engine can much more running easily about 7000 U/min, it´s complet another engineconfigartion like the ls2 with 5,7 350 cubic per inch and thiking of the Ls7 with small block 505 HP. they give avery long garantuee about the engine (but you have the not full idle if the engine is cold or absolutely high shifts.! Buth with 427 cubic per Inch I don´t know if this can handle with such a leightweight car. In my calculation with driver you have ca. 1500-1540 pounds. But the price difference beetween the ls7 and the ls3 is significant. then egine (Ls7) is almost doubled. And then you need anyway a dry-sump. More cost and a little more power than a wet sump! You have than stock-block like about 550 HP. Oh my God! too much for my mind!


@ an primer: clear i talking about relatively cheap racing. You have the big bang for the southafrican Formula vee and perhaps the biggest bang in Europe is Formula two, but that is an relatively old formula based on formula Palmer but nevertheless a relativ cheap entrance for pros. congratulation (unfortunately one of the best talents lost his life this is a live-long lost) Henry Surtees was a racer if he had more luck he would be one of the greatest, im´m shure. Since he drive carts (year 1999?) i´have noticed him and was sure one day we will many hear about him! R.I.P Henry. But back to the theme. I talking about a space frame chassis not a normal space fram but a little bit more development like the new Formula Mazda 2.0 Or if this not work a carbon-fiber-tube. But the cost were higher. It´s only for the pros not for amateurs. almost 500 Hp in a formula car with an weight ca. 1300 pounds is not for everyone freetime driver..(g)
But i understand every word primer, This engine is born for stock block racing!

thomaskomm

Yeah thomas, I'm sure your hearts in the right place but if you consider F2, FPalmer or FMazda etc. anything but extremely expensive then we are on different planets.

cheapracer it does not matter how unstressed the engine is, people cannot spend anything and modify anything if it is a spec engine in a spec series. The series operator can keep the engines under control, no one is going to stop the car on the side of the track and try to sneak in lighter pistons during practice. . Go further and circulate the motors amongst the grid.

thomaskomm: about affordability, do you have any target (annual budget) for a season in your hypothetical series with LS3 motors? It would be better idea to decide on a desired racing budget first, and then put together a car and regulations that can be made to work in that budget. Techincally there is little challenge to what you are dreaming, the real challenge for any such series would be economic.

- stop it, my guts are hurting!!


That must be one warm and cosy rock you've been hiding under for the last 100 years.

Well you can make cheating very, very expensive with a low-ball claiming rule.

An open-wheeler class with 500hp and a claiming rule - I'd like to see that!

So whats new?

Not only that you can then protest the Guy who bought your engine because you know what's illegal about it

Around the late 60's when Triumph won at Daytona one other Triumph competitor wanted to buy the bike under the rules and Triumph ended up buying him a new road bike and giving him a heap of factory spares rather than let that winning 'standard' bike get into his hands.

NASCAR is obviously where we know where the most expensive cheating/improvement has gone on for a "spec" class followed closely by F3 and FF I guess.

Spec motors as the "FIA" has the motors and then they get picked at random to the teams by lottery 1 or 2 days before.

Given the now widespread use of "fly by wire" throttles I wonder if there is an easier way of producing a Spec. engine series than all the detail engine rules and tear downs. Basically build an interface between the throttle pedal unit and the ECU which analyses the torque from a driveshaft sensor and moderates the real throttle level gradually over the race distance so as to equalise the cumulative power in the race. The car/engine builders would be required to have the necessary interfaces on the cars harness and the actual "torque intergration" electronics would be plugged in by the scrutineers on the grid. That should minimize cheating and if the control packages were removed at the end of the race before leaving the track then any cheating could be double checked.


The engine transmissions could either be standard or a choice of several mfrs. As long as the torque is measured at the drive shaft that doesnt really matter. It would certainly encourage smooth effiient Prost/Clark/Button style driving for sure. It would also encourage smart driving by letting drivers kep some torque capacity in reserve until the race ned, that might even help overtaking.

Hi an all, i know the formula two is one of the biggest ball why? It´s an old formula basic formula Palmer. they have an Aud engine with turbocharger. But i will yet you tell a different story about my amateurs conception about the new formula 5000 (alone the name thrills many old racing friends) the engine need no tuning only detuned to ca. 475 hp to 480 hp by 6600 U/min . All the secrets is a correct dyno. You must no buy an expensive gearbox, it gives 5 speed transmission in US. not Hewland they have very cheap transmissions or gearbox. My conception have no carbonfiber-tube but a very good space frame with cheap and good developed fiberglass body. but the crashbox is very important and the side-pods they must carbonfiber, alone for safety grounds. The suspension is not the expensive carbonfiber but look at the friend of Jack Brabham, he could very good suspensions (his name was Ron Tauranac, he was a genius about suspensios) but this is the way i think, ok it´s perhaps 70-years technick, but look at radical they have good suspension with her patent. You have to ideas that is the only way to make racing cheapier than yet, believe me! You need paddle-shifter? Ok, let´s do it!
But no more digital instruments, only watertemp, oil-pressure, battery and a tacho, oh i forget the tankpressure. Here we have it! What is a livespane for this Ls3 stock block for 6600 U/min HP peak and a redline 7000 U/min about 15.000 km racing? Then you have carful to say the engine to open and look to this! but you must correct driving the engine must idle slowly and you haven´t to interconnect the paddle shifts. Don´t often possible. the cost? Oh that is depending which tyres you need, goodyear (every race), Avon (20 heat cycles) that were maybe 4 or 5 races. And what have you do in the most time? change oil, look at the gearbox at ever 5 races (please not a hewland) You must built an adapter for the gearbox. but for the technicians no problem! Brakes pads you have to change. Track fees and byuing Pizza for your team! but i can´t imagine handle 475 hp with 376 cubic per inch at 6600 U/min! This is for pros not for me. I want a love for the new F500 with the 50-55 Hp engine 1 cyl. and 4 valves no differential and the old Polish Fiat 126 suspensions.... fast enough for me! If not to fast..... you have to pay for the new F2 366.000 €(inclusiv VAT) a very good concept compares with the f3. Very better and very faster! They have 425 HP and until for seconds 480 HP. Great ball! but the F 50000 ( the new) will be cheaper, believe me. maybe i assume no bigcrash highest price 135.000 € pro season with a tracktime beetween 35and 40 hours (with test 8 rounds) ca. 7000 km/year and all 2 years a rebuilt ( i don´t know if this works, why it gives no company they do it).
but it´s an very short overview about a concept with "relatively" cheap racing..

Thomas

I know you are all about cheapness, but would it really kill you to splurge on some 'Enter' keystrokes every now and then?

And again, what percent of F2 budget is due to cars themselves? There are many other costs, cars and their initial engineering is not the only thing that makes a series expensive. Your idea is good from technical viewpoint, but I hear nothing about how you are going to manage and control the costs in other areas. Racing is not just about cars.

And who's going to pay for all of this handling?

Keep 'em coming but it's all going to end in a dead lane every time (read "dollars").

Without doubt in my mind, one of the fastest, competitive, exciting bang for buck in the world at the moment (and very popular) is Jedi Racing in England.

http://www.formulajedi.com/series.php

Someone ought to do something similar to that series but at half the cost and with beam axles.

Very expensive is only relatively cheap to ridiculously expensive as it all currently is.

Why beam axles?

cheapracer, in my mind the biggest bang for road racing is formula vee in southafrica. A new Fvee cost about 85000 rand. this is the aquivalent about 7000 €. The southafricans are masters in that. They are witching with their cars. Price standard in southafrica is nevertheless very low. but the idea to import Sets of Fvee (the Rhema or Rhema 2) are absolutely fantastic cars! I can´t imagind that here in the word are "cheaper" cars open wheeler with g-force about 1,8 corner and braking force more than 1,1 g-force it give nothing more in this world. Oh the highspeed are fantastic 220 km/h and this are only yunkieyards engine vw Polo...... but the budget with my concept (amateurish i know it myself) 150.000 € are with the car. but this was an high estimate. i´m not a expert with damage and other things, but what i know is the radicals are one of the greatest racing cars in the world (they have space-frame chassiswith crash-box)! And the company makes so much money with their overhighed prices... that´s for me personaly a shame!
good day and greetings to cheapracer (i know the formulajedi is a very great and "cheap" but mostly hillclimb races (i have to correct sorry road races too, very interesting series allright) and this was always the cheapest racing not road racing. This is the expensives racing over all..

Cheapracer, how much cost an race-ready Formulajedi! This is an absolutely fantastic racecar with the 600 Motorcycle engine and the 1000 engine! My dream but i had always fear about the cost for rebuilt and maintaining the cars! How long the engines works before an overhauling? Man, i´m astonished. I had only read about hillclimbing not road races and they are so damned fast!!!!!!!
Please,please give me more information. I´m fall in "love" with the formulajedi!

Thomas

I like it too, but its not so much a crowd pleaser as a V8 tho.

MatsNorway, have you the bucks to get ready the idea? I don´t know why on earth the real pros don´t think on such a formula! It´s not a unrealistic scenario! but superior if this were working! I was myself very astonished how muchpower you can get from this ls3 engine you get! You have to retune not to tune the engine! Stock in a corvette for al little about 6000 bucks plus VAT you get a ready engine without gearbox than you have to added a dry sump, not a great deal for the most. Then you get with the 436 HP the generator back in the garage then you have 450+ hp think on ram with air dyno and without Katalysator. What have you power? With a little experimental exhaust? A little about 480 HP at least! Then you must exactly set the point to stock rpm`s. I don´t know exactly but with correct dry sump and more oil you have a very reliable engine with perhaps 80+ hour to racing. The next problem is the gearbox. don´t take the old hewland 5 gears. Today there are very better options with good gearboxes. I know Shift paddles is not the best for the engine. More with a little slower shifting than what today is the standard. But who cares? Old Formula Vee Colonel Smith said it about the old beetle engines...

thomas

Hello Race fans and addicted fans! lol, but i have a problem, i have no clue (it´s my amateurish thinking i know it myself) what gearbox you have to take for the engine?I know the original gearbox must be heavily tweaked and the hewland dg 300 is so expensive it gave no advantage for a much cheaper formula with ca. 480 hp, i had think a nascar gearbox with 5 speed is a opportunity but this is only for front engines! That was again heavely tweaking ! I have absolutely no clue what cheaper gearbox, diff and so ? Have you any ideas what a ball is for a cheaper "relatively" cheap formula 5000 of new design? I search search and search but i´m not the expert for gearboxes and the other stuff depended on this. A little i know but i have no clue... But more i writing and thinking about this ls3 engine i´m absolutely of mine that were a very very great formula. The most advantages is the engine. Cause is it a correct stock motor with stock block and no blue printing and with no modyfiying the engine although the generator must be out of the engine. One and one Battery is absolut enough for power. It gives many more tweaking this stock block to generate more power i know but why? cost are higher and 480 hp with ca. 650 KG (1430 lbs) and with driver 740 KG (1628i lbs) is more power most driver can handle! I think on the chassis on all what i think in my knowledge of the new tube frame chassis.
A nascar type of chassis with safety (i look ath the new Fmazda Challenge very good chassis). You have to add for the front a crash box similar to the radicals with by an accident take the force of the crash. No problem. Good mens they know what they make understanding that and could make a very good crashbox. The side pods have to be a must of Kevlar only safety grounds! Expensive but a must.
Think they were driver and they can´t handle the power, the torque.... all the other suspension it most no the newest ball of kevlar materials. Only a front suspension similar or style of the late Tauranac a welded piece it´s enough with testing to give good handling, again i feel it..... may be 80 years suspensions but who cares? only the sound of the Ls3 is a life for his own! thinking again 6600 rpm i have researching made by 480 hp is not a dream but it´s a real thing! Redline stock 7000 U/min. Not a dream it´s reality. you know of yourself how much cost this engine. But the greatest problem is the gearbox....I can look research and research but i don´t know how to take you a good oppotunity. sorry, but i have must help from the enthusiast abot f5000 for a new idea. I´m very confident that this formula could or would work with great sucess, only find a guy with the convincing about this idea and concept. How the helll why came no other of this idea? It lies on the street! You must only take the penny and have to be a genius and developing. but i´m not a genius only a idea-finder, maybe this don´t work but with that budgets today i have the cost with the old dg 300 add. and i must say, that is a unbelievable "relatively" cheap formula 5000! Alone the live span from this engine is unbelievable! i estimate of 40 hours track time a year with 8-9 rouns 3 and a half hours track time per round and 10 hours testing, You can forget the new Palmer Formula 2! And if you crashing you know the advantage from a space tube frame chassis, with cheaper repairs, think on a carbon chassis the cost... on my gosh! 375.000 € incluseve VAT it´s a compare with f3 a cheap formula but with a new F5000 (respective 6200 LS3) it´s about half cost with crash damage i calculating in my amateurish thinking. Maybe 35-45 % of the cost of you own. But you have a litte slower car with more weight but a engine this is practically undestroyble. two years with no oppening the engine is here a normal thing! you will at least 90-100 hours track time, if you not make many failures, but the gearbox i desperate on this thing, I know Xtrac have a Grandam gearbox similar with power and torque but this is expensive gearbox.
any ideas?

Your thinking Thomas

'Cause wheels weren't mean't to fall over then have a stupid set of dumb linkages try to figure out how to get them straight again.

beam axles? no problem look at the Fvee, they have the zero roll no but really no fall over. It´s so simple or take a flat iron beetween the rear wheels and the gearbox. And you have nothing dump linkages and you can with them oversteer withouth this great problems...

Thomas

So we have a Chev motor, beam axles and a steel tube chassis. How about a spool diff to save money.

spool? is that like a solid non differanciating rear axl?

I say no diff if no.

More sliding about that way, and more fun.

'cause spools are expensive, how about we just weld it up instead. 500 flbs of torque why would you want a diff anyway.

A modern steel tube chassis is a very great deal and a diff. way to a carbon chassis. Nascar had since 1965 developed with the Ford (hoolmann and mody) a halfframe chassis, until today the stuff is a completley other story...

Best Greatings thomas

Quote Thomas Komm

"Only a front suspension similar or style of the late Tauranac a welded piece it´s enough with testing to give good handling, again i feel it..... may be 80 years suspensions but who cares"?

Ron T. was bemused today when I told him of his passing

One good thing was he asked for the web address so he could see for himself...I have finally persuaded him to visit TNF . Next challenge is to have him register and let us hear the myriad of memories he has.

Thomas,
English is not your first language, so you might not understand what I wrote.
Ron Tauranac is alive and well and living in Sydney. I speak with him at least once a week. He is still designing cars at the age of 83.

Pat

Should try some laxatives.

Some what?

Poo lube? Like lacerol?

HI Pat Clark!

Oh i have him murdered? (lol) sorry, but i have to laugh too it´s a mistake... Ron T. is one of my greatest race car engineers. Again sorry that i´d said he were passing.......

Don´t know to many smoke in the air??? But you´re right he don´t quit with this work

Thomas

There are already lots of cheap racing categories about, although "cheap" is strictly relative. It's a lot more expensive to go racing than to ride a skateboard.

Cheapest of all single seater formulae is F Vee of course. Good second hand 1200 cc ones start at around $4,000 Australian. The rules haven't changed much over the years, and there's a bloke locally racing a 20 year old chassis very competitively indeed. Sealed engines, etc, low stress. You can do a season without any pulldowns.

Then there's Formula Ford, more expensive, but faster. Sealed engines again. And there are equivalent European formulae.

There's nothing cheap for seriously big engined single seaters because size is expensive. An F5000, even if a stock standard engine with 4 bbl carb and original cam was mandated, still needs a hugely expensive transaxle and some pretty potent brakes. And big, made-to-order uprights and driveshafts, too. And big, fat, expensive racing tyres. $$$$

Maybe a V8 version of the Lotus Super 7, with a sealed "crate" 5-litre, off-the-rack 5 speed box, and live rear axle?

As for touring cars, there are several low-budget formulas, too. Here in Australia we have something known as "saloon cars", a spec series which uses specific models of Holden and Falcon 4-door sedans (about 9 years old now), which use their own bog-standard six-cylinder EFI engines, ooriginal 5-speed gearboxes, original suspension, and original brakes. Cars are gutted out and fully caged. Just about the only major mod is the use of racing cogs in the gearboxes, because the production boxes don't last long, while the special gears will last the season. No aero aids allowed. Both these cars are rear drive. You can get a competitive example, ready built, maybe a season or two old, for as little as $25,000. Which is cheaper than the car was new!

If I was in my 20s and starting out, I'd go for one of those 3 groups.

(Even cheaper in touring is the HQ Holden series, mandating the use of a specific model of Holden built in the 70s, using the ancient 3.3 litre inline six and 3 speed box. Again, tightly controlled. Just about the only mod allowed is fitting a floor shift if you prefer, but still on the 3 speed box.)

Terry, the brakes on Saloon Cars are much larger than original...

These cars are further from original spec than you obviously think. They have a 'control' chip and 'control' tyres, but they have bigger wheels and brakes and more power than the original cars. It isn't necessary to run the 'control' gears, you can run standard ones, but they will break occasionally.

What about Clubmans? Well, it used to be a terrific and very fast low cost category. But they wings they've grown, the engine options they've adopted and all that stuff has led to them becoming way more expensive than they have to be. And they're not much faster!

The local boys disapproved of the recent changes to the Saloon Class, persisted with the older rules, and renamed themselves. Those are the only ones I've had a good look at. I admit it's a couple of years since I talked to one of the drivers, but he did say then, that like the HQs, the brakes were a bit on the dicey side at the end of the races.

I think the local boys have accepted the changes and rejoined the fold. As of this season they seem to be calling themselves Saloon Cars again.

Clubmen were fun, but as you say, they've become more and more unaffordable. Here in WA we run Production Clubmen, PRBs and Westfields. Mostly Westfields.

Exactly.


OMG no!

V8's are the best way to transform an agile Seven into a sluggish understeering pig*. Even the Rover V8 which is relatively lightweight for a V8 doesn't work in it. A Chevy V8 in a Seven = car rape.


*apart from the extremely lightweight RST-V8, of course.

I wasn't thinking of dropping a 5-litre V8 in an actual 7 - I agree, vandalism - but rather a 7-like clubman design which would be built around V8-sized parts the way the 7 was built around small 4-cyl Ford parts. A sort of Texas-sized job using, say, NASCAR running gear. I guess I was unclear. There was something mighty similar, but with full width body, in the le Mans Series, a front engine beastie whose name escapes me, and which went like the wind.

The Panoz LMP1?

http://www.gt-eins.de/Bilder/alms2k/panoz1brabham.JPG

That's it - the Panoz.

Hello! Oh my pc i have to rebuilt for a few days! @Terry Walker: yes fvee in Australia ist very good formula i watching since 15 years this formula and there is a great rebirth of course the ffirst. Really Great. But the cars are year to year more special and not cheap, think on the tyres or the newest goodies there built in in the wonderful cars. I have despite the rebuilt make my ideas but i come to an end: it´s almost imposible for a relative great big formula with relatively cheap racing. A new Formula 6200 cost too much. Times there changes and that is the way it is. Since many years i thinking and thinking how in the world you can give an inspiration for guys with talent and enthusiasmus, but it gives here many cheap racing series, they are not big; An new F3 with the Yamaha 600 XT engine built around similar the jedi. From 47 HP to 55HP stock. Think on the Formula Easter with all the stuff from the Lada. A mix beetween Fvee and F3 with an motorcycle 1 cyl. engine it´s possible or with the Fiat 126 Poland suspension, you can all do if you have talent, can welding and you know the right guys. Clubman racing is not the same like the f6200 (res. F5000) But there is an relatively cheap formula called Cobras replica with the 225 hp 5,o ltr. Ford engine. The engine is an engine you can´t destroy... Oh i forget the name ahh. Spec racing called their baby. Stock hatch is very popular. But not an open wheeler. Many, many ideas and racing series. Thanks for our input. It´s refreshended. But the greatest problem are often the gearbox, drivetrain and big brakes of course and safety standard!

Thomas