With Red Bull, Mclaren, Ferrari and Mercedes all looking fairly close in terms of performance, full fuel loads and the importance of tyre management....which drivers do you think will excel at making the most of the package and 2010 regs and whom might struggle?

A long time friend and motor racing enthusiast suggested to me that he thought Schumacher and Button might have the advantage and benefit most out of the top 8 due to their driving styles. What do you think? Will Hamilton struggle? Will Ferrari struggle to heat up their tyres? etc etc. You get the gist.

Discuss (nicely and without indulging in your least favourite driver bashing)

It's more complex than that. Efficiency of the engine is vital as you can carry less fuel. Qualifying is vital as you can hold up a more efficient car or get held up by a less efficient one.

The first few races will be interesting.

Yes I realise its more complex than that Alfisti

I just wondered which drivers do you think will adapt best to the regulations and be able to use it to their advantage during the race weekend....

Totally agree that the first few races will be very interesting though I can't remember looking forward to a season quite as much as this one

MMmmmm, I don't know why anybody would suggest Schumacher would benefit from no refueling. IMHO, the re-introduction of refueling in 1994 fit him like a glove. Of course, his experience will certainly come in handy, maybe that's what he meant.

Having said that, I think Button certainly has a chance to show something, he seems to be able to go fast enough without stressing too much the car, parts, or tires, I guess Hamilton will modify himself though, to be able to cope with it, just as well, but will he be as effective? I don't know.

I think Massa certainly has a chance to be good in these conditions, guessing from his driving style, but I've never seen data on wether he's rough on his tires or not, his style certainly seems adequate.

Alonso.....well, if you ever saw him karting live, you'd know he's one of those guys capable of going extremely fast without much apparent effort, which would suggest he'll be good at this, I mean, he looked so smooth you'd think he was "breaking in" an engine or something, BOOM! when you clocked what you thought was a bad lap, it's actually a blinder!

Vettel I think will have to hold back a bit, but not as much as Hamilton, I think, might be interesting.

Rubens has a very classic driving style, should suit him fine.

One of the weakest points of Hamilton, and it is a HUGE weak point, is the tyre management. Remember that Bridgestone decided his strategy in Turkish GP 2008, and in 2007 he had a puncture there.

And one of the strongest points of Alonso is precisely the tyre manegement.

So there we have an advantage for the spaniard.

Besides Hamilton "I like to fry my front tires when I go fast style", Alonso has also a fairly aggressive turn in style that I suspect will not go well with a heavier car. Schumacher, Barrichelo and DeLaRosa are the oldest and most experienced, so I reckon they will struggle the less of all.

However, although a smooth driving style is great to SAVE the tires, once they are SHOT useless, I think Hamilton will make the most of it. In those conditions, sliding everywhere, etc. Hamilton will suffer less than would I guy who depends on a balanced car to drive fast. So although Button might save his tires 5 more laps equivalent, for instance, Hamilton could drive faster when the car does not suit him, or anybody for that matter (due to the crap state the tires are then in). Who would finish in front of the other would depend how fast one could go then the other when in difficulty. Alonso too, did amazing drives on shitty Renaults, I think he has the potential to drive around bad tires too.

Also, a late braker, point and shoot driver like Massa may benefit more with the new regs than a driver who makes a difference by his great cornering speed, like Schumacher, which might stress the tires too much, heavy car, high speed, high forces on the carcass etc. Massa OTOH makes much of his lap times from slow corners (at least compared to Raikkonen, Schumacher), and as long as there's no heavy braking involved (say a sequence of slow corners), I can't see how he is going to be penalized much for being heavy (relatively speaking of course).

Finally a driver with a history of complaining too much will likely have a great, irresistible excuse on the tire issue: Button, Alonso, Barrichello, Trulli...

that's quite a narrow view. in the same car in his rookie year hamilton was a match for alonso
a few years later....who knows?

didn't one of the bridgestone guys say hamilton was managing his tyres much better than button?

Tyre management is not NOT a huge problem for LH, in fact I'd go as far as to say it's no problem whatsoever. You only have to look to last season for the evidence of that.

In Autosport Print it says that Hamilton was doing much better with the tyres than Button.

Bizzarly.

Hamilton and Michael have very similar styles IIRC.

Tea Chiara?

This is not the Louis vs. Alfred thread

Thanks

Bridgestone have turned the old Lewis/Jense assumptions about tyre use upside down. Also we saw/heard in testing that the driving style needs to evolve as the fuel load comes down and Jense can only drive one way.

We saw Massa throw away a place last year through not listening to Smedley to manage his fuel and just racing on emotionally at full pelt, arguing about it, that doesn't bode well for him.

Vettel, well he must be maturing but we saw him setting fastest laps with nothing to gain in the middle of an engine shortage, so a question mark for him, I'd say.

Dunno about Webbo and Nico. Schumi, Hammy and Fernando are thinking drivers, versatile and aware, they should have an advantage.

what on earth is this about?

Yeah I read that too.

I think the more adaptable drivers will benefit. The ones that can drive around problems. With that in mind out of the big 4 teams the ones that spring to mind are (in alphabetical order) Alonso, Hamilton, Massa and Schumacher.

Not sure how it will work with Button as he tends to have the car very specific and struggles a bit with changing conditions.

I cant place Vettel and Webber we dont really know much about the tyre performance of the Red Bull. Saying that later in the year last years Red Bull didn't seem to have a tyre issue. Vettel appears to be the one who works the tyre's harder but over the latter half of last year he didn't have any issues, so not sure if it was the car or Vettel handling his tyre management better. Vettel had 3 major problems last year and they were in the early part of the season.

Rosberg I have absolutely no idea.

What I will say (and I'm going out on a limb here) is that if anyone was in a backmarker team at any point last year and got to grips with a heavy fuel load and staying out long enough with the same set of tyres for a long time may have an advantage. The rules would have suited Fisi well if he was in this years Ferrari, if you get what I mean.

Ok I'm waffling. I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about.

Spain. When the car was supposed to be running out of fuel when it actually wasn't. There was a technical glitch which was reporting that the car had less fuel in it than it actually had.

Spain last year. They had a faulty fuel reading, 14 laps to go Smedley said slow down or you'll run out, Felipe wouldn't, kept racing IIRC Vettel, saying "so I can't keep racing that's not fair" 2 laps to go with Rob getting more and more desperate he finally did and had to slow down a lot to get to the finish, consequently let IIRC FA through as well.

I think this question comes up each time there is some big changes, like for instance when the banned tire changes. There was theories like "this driver have a smother style and will benefit" and of course the opposite. End the end the best drivers managed it the best. Or rather, the best teams managed it the best because nowadays a driver does not make so many decisions of when to push, when to save. He get into his rhythm, that hopefully is quite good, and from that the team tells him to push or save depending on how things are developing. A good driver that is using a lot of tires is usually also fast, if he is not he is not in F1.

Webber was strong on long fuel runs last year. Jumped Vettel a few times with a long second stint...

If i remeber correctly it was a system mistake and there would of been enough to get to the end of the race am sure that was repoted. Nothing to do with driver error.

I said it was a faulty reading, but anyway Felipe didn't know that. So as a predictor for how smart he's going to be this year...

I'm beginning to think that you are thinking that tyre changes are not allowed....

Yes they do

Narrower front tyres will play into the hands of those that are more tailhappy, Hamilton and Schumacher spring to mind. But overall I fear it will be more about quali than racecraft/preserving tyres

the driver who better adapts to changeable conditions would prevail...and I think that alonso's got certain advantage here, martin brundle and james allen seem to agree with me...that's more than enough regarding their hatred towards fernando,

then michael and webber, button will struggle when the car doesn't suit to him and hamilton and vettel ...well I have to see who these two handle the tyres on the first laps, hamilton used to fry his tyres just in the first corners....I reckon he'd change this year otherwise...let's see

sorry, but those two mentioned have no hate towards Alonso whatsoever, both have said great things about him and his abilities, if they don't praise 100% off the time don't make the mistake of thinking that they hate him.

well, felipe we be another benchmark.

I understand that, I should have been clearer, but I think my point still stands. I assumed nobody would like to change tires too early with a heavier car, but maybe some will.

I'm amazed people keep talking about tire issues with Lewis. Did they not watch the last two championships.

Guys, it's not all about conserving the tires, some people are thinking one dimensionally here. It's also about being able to go fast without killing them, or within an "acceptable" level of wear.

Some drivers simply have this ability, Prost was a master at it, Alonso strikes me as somebody who can go fast while preserving. It's not necessarily about being smoother either. Some drivers can be aggressive and still very good at conservation, Senna was like that, though, not as good as Prost I have to admit.

So, don't only look at weather they slide, or are smoother, there's lots more to it than meets the eye. Somebody could be very smooth, yet, hard on equipment, and vice-versa, there is a correlation, but it's not 100%.

Alonso is an aggressive driver, yet, he looks incredibly smooth from the outside. Schumacher is aggressive, yet, looks, well, aggressive, Hamilton is smooth, yet, looks spectacular from the outside, and so on.

I don't think any of these top drivers will struggle at all with this, but I'm sure some will have to re-learn a few things, the question is, will they loose their effectiveness? and then, will ones that were not so effective find something? we'll see....

If I only had a penny for every uneducated person on this board that thinks Lewis has bad tire management......

I don't think Schumacher has any advantage from his no refueling seasons. That is over 15 years behind.

Last season the cars were tailhappy. This season the front tyres have less grip and the cars are more prone to understeer.

No no, he simply has bad management.

Nope, he's a well known tyre-fryer

Lewis showed improvements in that area last season. It will be interesting season in alot of ways. It would have been interesting to see Lewis in 2005 one tyre for the race regs. Webber ate his tyres a bit in that season in some races, but last season long stints and some fast times at the end of the stints gained him some podiums and were one of his strong points. At the end of last years Spanish GP, Button talked about how hard it was to manage the tyres for the long middle stint which helped him beat Rubens, but Webber's stint was even longer.

Alonso should be good this season, but in Monaco 05 he ate his rear tyres massively just like Fisi. They were beyond bald. The car does play a part.

Who knows what will happen, but it should be good. Especially if there are different phases of the race where teams are weak or stronger.

Prost ranking for 2010:

Alonso
Webber
Button
Schumacher*
Hamilton
Massa
Vettel
Spears

*Due to inexperience with current Rubber.

Its the same old pre-season guessing game. One thing is guaranteed, one of the top 4 will be quicker than estimated by the pundits, and one car will be slower than estimated by the pundits. Beyond that pre-season has never been so tough to judge IMO, that I'll wait until FP2 is over to give a judgement. 3 hours of watching the practice sessions will give me a good impression of what the cars are like. Until then I'll keep my powder dry.

There was a poster who wrote an excellent post of Lewis' driving style through trackside observation. He noted that Lewis was making a conserted effort to manage his tyres in the first of 2 stints and tried to manage the tendency of the car to 'wobble' when exiting low speed corners. He noted that in the second stint Lewis' driving style changed with less emphasis on managing the 'wobble' instead going for outright speed.

My guess from this observation is that the drivers will need to manage the tyres on full tanks, thereafter their natural speed will come to the fore. Lewis, Nando, and Schumacher have the spare capacity to be able to manage a race in this respect. Schumacher will be particularly difficult to overtake when on full tanks so trying to avoid being stuck behind him in the early stages will be a plus.

Button is new to the car and regs so will not feature early on. Vettel will be a quick learner while Massa could be a dark horse.

From what Bridgestone have said, particularly about Sauber and Renault, it seems that having a CAR that looks after its tyres is more important than having a DRIVER that looks after his tyres better. The former appears fundamental, the later, a small advantage.

The other thing to bear in mind is, its all very well looking after your tyres, but if that is at the expense of serious pace, its worthless. I think Button is a good shout, but the two Ferrari boys are pretty handy in this area too, particularly Massa.

As in Alain Prost? Got a source mate?

Sunday is 31C and sunny so the track will be a lot warmer than at the testing days.

I really don't have a clue how it's going to pan out over this weekend and subsequent ones, I do know I am really looking forward to it all. Sauber though, perhaps Famous 5 than Fab 4?

Andy

It isn't so much about tyre management itself as it is about adapting driving style to achieve optimal tyre management. In this I think experience will play a big role as I am a hundred percent sure someone like Schumacher has had experience adapting his style (corner entry/exit,braking points etc) over the course of a race to stay as quick as possible under the circumstances (worn tyres,slicks on a damp track etc). Drivers with less experience aren't necessarily going to be slower,but might find a different approach unnatural-and may thus be slower in the earlier on. Again,it's commonly believed Button is easier on his tyres than most,so I do think his natural style is close enough to what may be considered necessary.He's probably got less adapting to do than a driver like,say,Hamilton. Meaning Hamilton won't necessarily be slower or anything,but will certainly have to adapt to a less natural style than Button.

Are the regs only new to Button?

Of course they're not, but having to adapt to a new car and new regs is not going to be easy. The likes of Scumacher and Nando have spare capacity when driving an F1 car - Button doesn't imo - but we will see.

Every driver has to adapt to a new car every season whether they change teams or not.

This list is wrong on so many levels, I stopped counting them.

Alonso is OK, but Button will struggle badly because of the lack of adapting skills. Webber will struggle too. And why Britney is on the last place? He had the best experience within these drivers how to run a heavy car in races.

My list:
Alonso
Hamilton
Rosberg
Shumacher
Massa
Vettel
Webber
Button

Wet weather racing is a good guage of adapting ability because every lap the corners the drivers face can be different. A river that can cause aqua planing can be deeper or shallower, the track might drying and easier to push or the rain might be getting worse and every lap you need to be more careful. Rosberg is a bad wet weather driver.

The older drivers have more experience with adapting to new regs every season.

The drivers used to having bad cars are used to carrying heavy fuel loads. Glock was one that is good with heavy fuel loads.

It's impossible to make a list, too many factors.

It was my list of 'Prostness' aka looking after the car, and I agree that the more experienced drivers, and those that have often run heavy 1 stops will do much better than the newguns.

Rosberg's bound to struggle, if it rains at the start of the race he may as well stop.

I think guys like Webber, Schumacher & Button, good in the wet and thus good with managing their car in tricky conditions, will do surprisingly well.

It's actually about adapting your driving style over the course of the race (as many on here have repeatedly said). And by all accounts that was exactly what Hamilton was doing during his race sim in Barcelona.

The result? The best overall pace of the winter and tyres that lasted.... unlike his teammate.