I've just read this suggestion by Heikki, and I have to say its not as crazy as it sounds (to me at least) There is obviously a great laptime difference between any front-runner and the car they are about to lap, so they could pull it without blue flags, but it would be way more entertaining to watch. Is he going to go for or wait a lap or two to play it nice and safe (and let the car behind catch up in the process), is he going to overtake at some impossible place or wait for the long straight. Of course it also brings up some concerns, like blue-flags being a traditional part of racing, and how would we react if a backmaker takes a front-runner out (I still hate really hate Jos for what he did with JPM in Brazil, but then again, that was Jos:D) So awyway, what do you think?


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aFPmW8VtMobY

Please no! I want a fight for position, not some incompetent backmarkers joining in a fight they don't belong.

Interesting that this idea comes from someone who will see enough of blue flags over the season. He's clearly bored at the back.

if the championship goes down to two drivers say Lewis and Fernando, with the rest out of the running.... what is stopping Mclaren or Ferrari from deploying Jenson/Massa to become a legitimate moving chicane

Blue flags are more than historical remaints. To artificially create more overtakings because you are lapping a 4s per lap slower car 12 positions behind is obviously not going to solve the underlaying problem.

(it will look pretty on the statistics sheets though, and since according to bernie F1 is not a sport but an entertainment, heck, go for it...)

Would be great in Monaco...

Or if YOU were in the HRT and Driver X and Y were fighting for the championship. Driver Y's manager says to you that in the event you could help out you will recieve a $250,000 gift for your troubles. $250,000 is nothing over the course of a lifetime of being a F1 WDC....you'll always be a F1 WDC. The lure of fame does strange things to people....just watch these reality TV shows as proof. Seriously though see Schumacher or Vijay Singh as examples; two very talented individuals at their sport, both more than likely to suceed at a very high level, and both of them took the easy road that appeared before them - Schumacher w/traction control/fuel rigs/spearing others/parking on the track - VJ with erasing a bogey w/his pencil rather than his clubs. It happens all the time - temptation is a bitch.

When was the last time we saw a fight for the lead?

I say yes, get rid of blue flags! Even Martin Brundle said it was more challenging without em for him...

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think obligatory obeyance of the blue flag has only been around for a few years. It used to be a warning, without penalty for not obeying.

Thats a really, really bad idea.

Maybe Kovalainens only possiblility to race with anyone this year ;)

“Case of champagne from Ferrari to Sauber,” said Walker.

“Because the Argentinian newcomer Norberto Fontana, up from Formula Three, really, really, helped Michael Schumacher on his way there,” he added.

“What engine have they got in that Sauber, Murray?” said Brundle.

“Isn’t it a Ferrari?” he said.

“Well, it is, yes,” said Walker. “Martin you are a cynical chap.”

Just last Sunday - didn't you see Fernando make that dramatic pass on vettel?


last I recall off hand was Kimi/Fisi Suzuka ('05?) tho I'm probably forgetting a more recent one.

can you imagine Monaco without blue flags with these long cars.... it will be ridiculous

a HRT, Lotus or Virgin car will become a safety car after the first 25 laps or so....You could easily have the whole grid bunched up behind a backmarker on such a track...

although it will be unfair, that could actually be fun....and totally ridiculous.

Bah! I mean a true fight for the lead not candy from a baby kind of stuff lol

Watch the 1999 CART race at Nazareth (the first and only one they ran with superspeedway-style skinny wings) for an example of how backmen work when it's virtually impossible to overtake. For a seasoned race-watcher, it's curiously exciting and utterly bizarre.

Yeah, it changed in 1999.

The concept of punishing lapped drivers for blocking has been around for longer, though: the earliest occasion I'm aware of is when Pierluigi Martini was given a stop-go penalty for persistent blocking at the 1991 Monaco Grand Prix.

As sick as it sounds, it will be fun to watch... well for us atleast

Alonso and Hamilton down the straight at Indy? There was no overtake but it was a fight. Quite briefly.

Fisi supporters (are there more than 1? ) will beat you for that!

I can not believe that Heikki was serious suggesting that. He is fully aware that he will be lapped quite often this season.

el Fist shaker, right!

Doesn't everyone want more overtaking, or a better chance for lower grid teams to get involved in the action? Make it happen.

Maybe have a 5 lap delay on the blue flag. The approaching driver would decide whether to attempt a quick pass or wait for the blue flag. The driver would have to assess his strategy vs the condition of his tires vs his passing skills and then live with his decision. This would also provide a role for the slower cars and would keep the leaders closer together at the end of the race.

last i remmber was hamilton at german gp (in the dry), it was something like 3 years since the previous one i think

there was kimi/fisi at spa but that's abit dubious cos of safety car and did kimi go off the circuit?

the guy who used to run loews motor speedway said that motor racing is racing for the lead, or something along those lines

and hes right

I don't get blue flags at the Kart track and I have to work my butt off to slice through the field. Makes for good racing.

In F1? I'm on the fence, but have my legs dangling on the no blue flags side.

ridiculous.....you can get race fixing moves legally this way. let him pass and hold the other one for 5 laps => 30 seconds
race overwhat happens in monaco? you get a train of cars, one or two manage to get passed....what would the backmarker do, act as a safety car for the rest? how hard would he race everybody else.

sorry, but with cars so slow today like hrt and the rest you are just asking for trouble. it's fine they are allowed to race even though they can't even turn a wheel in testing or they lose more hydraulic oil than an oil field...now also have them mixed in racing the top cars...

Its not a totally ridiculous suggestion. Its not in a lapped drivers interest to purposely hold up a faster car as he's compromising his own race. At the end of the day blue flags arent there to tell the slower driver to 'pull over' as most people expect, they are there to warn the slower car a faster car is approaching so getting rid of them completely is a bit daft. I would say getting rid of the dont pullover in 3 corners and you get a penalty rule is a better approach.

gee I wonder who implemented this rule.

he wouldnt have said this last year. stupid idea in my opinion, their at the back for a reason, they shouldnt interfere with the other people

Remember ah yes remember DC being held up by that arrows driver at the 2001 monaco gp? He wasn't a lapped car but dc couldnt pass him till he pitted and it was so much fun to watch! We need that for lapped cars lol

I don't think Kova is saying that. Just that w/o blue flags they wouldn't necessarily see the leaders closing so they wouldn't pull over like they do know.

One thing is certain is that the teams would have to make mirrors that were useable, instead of an aero device that has reflective value.

once a car goes a lap down they tend to not make it too difficult for the other chaps

I guess I'm selfish and want action all through the field and the commentators to be out of breath due to it!

I just have one thing to say:

LOL

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8oalf_fo...villeneuve_auto

It was so blatant... These days you'd get a drive through for even attempting such a thing whilst racing for position.

Only because they will be penalised if they do, remove that and you would see a different picture. Someone who is a lap down shouldn't be allowed to interfer in the lapping drivers race.

im talking about nascar etc, there the last guy is battling to stay on the lead lap, or first guy a lap down for the lucky dog

While blue flags to advise slow drivers has been around since forever, and leading drivers had to have an extra skill set to negotiate them, its only in more recent years that the lapped driver is commanded to leap out of the way like scared bunny rabbits.

I'd prefer a rule somewhere in between these two extremes.

While it may or may not be a good idea (It would, I think, have to be accompanied by a geological shift in thinking in both fans and participants that will never happen), its amusing that heikki never thought to suggest this while driving a mac. Amazing that eh?

I'm so glad Michael and Ferrari got their come-uppance in that race!

Last time? Hamilton agains Kimi in Spa... The stewards did not like it...

Not a good idea. In fact, it´s a ridiculous idea IMO.

Depends on the context, IMO. In motorcycle racing, having a guy running a few seconds a lap slower than you, right in front of you on what he thinks is the racing line, is obviously something that should not ever happen. In short track racing (or any oval racing, to an extent), moving over for a faster car is impractical and really quite dangerous. It's well-known that the action in World of Outlaws or at the smaller NASCAR tracks only really begins when the leaders catch the back of the field. I'm not sure where the line falls in high-speed prototype open-wheel racing.

Personally I'd only want the move-over order to be given in cases of blatant blocking; having to negotiate lapped cars safely and efficiently should be an important part of an F1 driver's craft. I enjoyed the variation in styles between Senna and Prost, for example, with one slicing quickly and almost recklessly through traffic, and the other being more circumspect and cautious. 9 times out of 10 it would help Senna build up a lead, but every once in a while it caught him out, like at Monza in 1989. Still, when a lesser mortal tried to be as decisive, as Berger did one year at Adelaide (1988?), they usually came off with a worse rate of success.

Indeed, although it does have to be noted that after the race Ferrari went to the stewards to try to get Villeneuve, Hakkinen and Coulthard disqualified for collusion and race fixing. "Oi! Kettle! You're f**king black mate!"

I think he's completely right. I'd even take it a step further and scrap the whole "impeding" stuff in qualifying.

Finding a clear lap in qualifying and dealing with backmarkers in the race should once again become a natural part of the game, a valuable skill in the drivers armour.

All in all it would be far more fair that way, same for everyone, instead of random penalties getting dished out by the officials.

I disagree. It would be all too easy for a backmarker to ruin Q or the race for one driver while giving a clear path for another.

Heikki, drive faster!

Now in reality, why should a driver do that? The occasions were the teammate of a leading driver will get lapped will be very, very rare. Normally we're speaking of the respective Hispanias and Virgins of the grid, why should the drivers of those teams get out of their way and help Massa / disturb Button or somesuch?

And even if it really happens, so what? As I said part of the game - just like oil on the track, rain, or lose manhole covers. As with every other obstacle, the better drivers will deal with it better than the lesser ones. IOW, as it should be.

It's happened in the past with teams holding up driver just because of who was their engine supplier, it could be something as simply as being friendlier with one driver over another. IMHO drivers being lapped should get out of the way and should not be allowed to influence the race. If they are that far behind they have simply lost any right to get in the way.