D.M.N.
Jun 12 2010, 19:59
http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/06/12/hamilto...hreat-from-fia/QUOTE
The FIA is looking into Lewis Hamilton’s actions on his in-lap after securing pole in qualifying in Montreal.
Hamilton was told by the team to stop on the circuit because he was so marginal on fuel that he was in risk of not having enough left for the FIA sample at the end of the session. The car must have at least 1-litre in the tank for scrutineering purposes.
He stopped on the straight before the pits and after coasting for a while, got out and pushed, before being picked up by the medical car and given a lift home.
The question mark is over the fact that drivers are given a lap time within which they have to return to the pits during qualifying, a legacy of the fuel saving days of several seasons ago.
The FIA view is that if a driver suffers a genuine problem and has to stop, it would be treated as force majeure, and that does not apply in this case.
Furthermore, in the two sectors that he completed he was well over the prescribed 30% limit. His first sector was 33s, and the middle sector was 55s. In other words he would not have made the time even if he had finished the lap.
One chief engineer from a rival team told me: “It’s definitely illegal, they took advantage by cheating. Otherwise next time we’ll all put one less lap in the cars.”
While clearly there has to be some provision for drivers suffering a genuine mechanical problem after setting a time, it would seem that McLaren has some explaining to do. It’s thought they told the FIA there was a miscommunication in the team about the fuel level in Lewis’s car.
Hope he isn't dropped, but if he is, then hopefully only his fastest time will be deleted.
Pharazon
Jun 12 2010, 20:01
QUOTE (D.M.N. @ Jun 12 2010, 20:59)

http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/06/12/hamilto...hreat-from-fia/Hope he isn't dropped, but if he is, then hopefully only his fastest time will be deleted.
i guess this is the first test of the does the 'new' fia hate mclaren theory....
i'm sure if he does get panalised it will be a 5 places on the grid
phil1993
Jun 12 2010, 20:03
If the FIA do find a fault, surely it should be McLaren who are fined rather than Lewis penalised
Jack Burton
Jun 12 2010, 20:04
From the sound of it his last time should definitely be excluded.
Otherwise you're going to start having drivers park immediately as they cross the finish line.
phil1993
Jun 12 2010, 20:05
QUOTE (Jack Burton @ Jun 12 2010, 21:04)

From the sound of it his last time should definitely be excluded.
Why?
BinaryDad
Jun 12 2010, 20:06
QUOTE
ne chief engineer from a rival team told me: “It’s definitely illegal, they beat us and there was no way we could match them. Otherwise, they will win the championship at this race and that just plain sucks. It should be us.
Fixed it.
Puhoon
Jun 12 2010, 20:06
QUOTE (Jack Burton @ Jun 12 2010, 23:04)

From the sound of it his last time should definitely be excluded.
I think so too. If that doesn't happen, then why not always fuel the car so that it runs out of fuel on the in-lap.
LoudHoward
Jun 12 2010, 20:06
What would be interesting about it to me would be that if he is penalised, it would've been because of a rule brought in because of what Hamilton (and others) did at Malaysia '08! Funny.
Jack Burton
Jun 12 2010, 20:07
QUOTE (phil1993 @ Jun 12 2010, 16:05)

Why?
Because he didn't have enough fuel to complete the lap and he wasn't lapping in the required time. Pretty simple really.
If this is allowed then all the drivers should be able to stop immediately after crossing the finish line. That's ridiculous.
schuey100
Jun 12 2010, 20:08
QUOTE (phil1993 @ Jun 12 2010, 21:05)

Why?
If the rules say that you need to have enough fuel to get back to the pits then he needs to be punished. If not they don't then good job to McLaren, they found a loophole that needs to be closed for the next race because otherwise no cars will put in enough fuel to get back to the pits.
Grenada
Jun 12 2010, 20:08
It's never boring with Lewis is it? Sometimes I wish it was.
KateLM
Jun 12 2010, 20:09
Looking at the rule about laptime back to the pit, then McLaren are almost definitely in trouble. You can bet that the stewards are going to argue that if they were that marginal on fuel then they shouldn't have told Hamilton to do another lap.
I'm in two minds over this one. You can see how some teams will argue that they got an unfair advantage, but I would really feel for Lewis if they did decide to penalise him as its the team's error, not his, and it would be such a kick in the teeth to both him and the fans if his brilliant display was all for nothing.
sw6569
Jun 12 2010, 20:10
I did have a feeling that this would happen. The rule does make sense in that otherwise all the cars would do that in order to gain a tiny amount of lap time. Lets hope its not deleted though, i think he deserved pole! (and also the red bulls will totally walk it with the harder tyre...!)
Anomnader
Jun 12 2010, 20:10
Wierd that they are looking into it, but nothing said about being called to the stewards like they usually do.
Wonder how long they look at something before they make a decision, I remember the Shuey parking was about 9 hours or so.
phil1993
Jun 12 2010, 20:11
If they do find a fault, punish the team, not Lewis and make a stance that it mustn't happen again
Yorkie
Jun 12 2010, 20:12
I wont be too surprised if Lewis doesnt get penalised, sounding like another McLaren screw up to me
Jack Burton
Jun 12 2010, 20:12
QUOTE (KateLM @ Jun 12 2010, 16:09)

Looking at the rule about laptime back to the pit, then McLaren are almost definitely in trouble. You can bet that the stewards are going to argue that if they were that marginal on fuel then they shouldn't have told Hamilton to do another lap.
I'm in two minds over this one. You can see how some teams will argue that they got an unfair advantage, but I would really feel for Lewis if they did decide to penalise him as its the team's error, not his, and it would be such a kick in the teeth to both him and the fans if his brilliant display was all for nothing.
To him and his fans? This is a sport not a social event.
If you get caught taking advantage of the rules you get penalized. McLaren and Hamilton were taking advantage of the rules and they should be penalized as a result. Shouldn't be anything drastic, but there is no way his pole time should stand considering he didn't have enough fuel to lap in a reasonable time or make it back to the pits.
PassWind
Jun 12 2010, 20:13
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Jun 12 2010, 21:10)

Wierd that they are looking into it, but nothing said about being called to the stewards like they usually do.
Wonder how long they look at something before they make a decision, I remember the Shuey parking was about 9 hours or so.
Brundle mentioned it straight off that they might be in trouble when it happened
Anomnader
Jun 12 2010, 20:13
If wrong I think the team needs a big big arse kicking but it'll damage the show to penalise Lewis.
Onyemaechi
Jun 12 2010, 20:13
Just heard a rumor Lewis pole is being investigated on FIA Article 31.6
"Any driver who stays on the track or unnecessarily impedes another driver unnecessarily, can be punished"
Any news on that?
schuey100
Jun 12 2010, 20:14
QUOTE (KateLM @ Jun 12 2010, 21:09)

Looking at the rule about laptime back to the pit, then McLaren are almost definitely in trouble. You can bet that the stewards are going to argue that if they were that marginal on fuel then they shouldn't have told Hamilton to do another lap.
I'm in two minds over this one. You can see how some teams will argue that they got an unfair advantage, but I would really feel for Lewis if they did decide to penalise him as its the team's error, not his, and it would be such a kick in the teeth to both him and the fans if his brilliant display was all for nothing.
Kinda agree with you but what if the team put Nox in his car and he did 400mph down the straight to get pole? Would it be fair to the other teams and drivers if the team was punished and Lewis kept pole?
I think Lewis did a great job and I HATE seeing things changed after a race or Qually but I do feel that if Lewis had an unfair weight advantage then his lap time was unfair and he should have that time canceled out and be allowed to keep his second best time. There's certainly no need for a massive 10 place grid penalty or anything like that.
PassWind
Jun 12 2010, 20:14
QUOTE (sw6569 @ Jun 12 2010, 21:10)

(and also the red bulls will totally walk it with the harder tyre...!)
This year its been other teams advantage having the Redbulls 1 and 2, they will find a way to **** it up.
OneAndOnly
Jun 12 2010, 20:15
QUOTE (phil1993 @ Jun 12 2010, 22:03)

If the FIA do find a fault, surely it should be McLaren who are fined rather than Lewis penalised
Then they should give him V8 turbo engine, car with ground effect and in the end pay fine or just give away their WCC points.
If he gained some advantage against the rules he should be penalised. It's simple as that.
Jack Burton
Jun 12 2010, 20:15
QUOTE (phil1993 @ Jun 12 2010, 16:11)

If they do find a fault, punish the team, not Lewis and make a stance that it mustn't happen again
Lewis set his pole time with a car that wasn't able to make it back to the pits or run within the required percentage. Why should his time stand?
KateLM
Jun 12 2010, 20:15
QUOTE (schuey100 @ Jun 12 2010, 21:14)

Kinda agree with you but what if the team put Nox in his car and he did 400mph down the straight to get pole? Would it be fair to the other teams and drivers if the team was punished and Lewis kept pole?
I think Lewis did a great job and I HATE seeing things changed after a race or Qually but I do feel that if Lewis had an unfair weight advantage then his lap time was unfair and he should have that time canceled out and be allowed to keep his second best time. There's certainly no need for a massive 10 place grid penalty or anything like that.
That is my view too

The first bit is what makes me in two minds about it, even though I can see that they should probably be penalised from a sporting point of view.
smartie_f1
Jun 12 2010, 20:15
Adam Cooper's updated his blog with a bit more info
Jayman
Jun 12 2010, 20:16
Lewis would have benefited to why shouldn't he be punished if it's illegal? Other wise it's not fair on the rest of the drivers.
Bonaventura
Jun 12 2010, 20:16
QUOTE (Grenada @ Jun 12 2010, 20:08)

It's never boring with Lewis is it? Sometimes I wish it was.

I came home & heared Lewis on pole, and was happy
but now??
I' ve gets penalised it will be the 4th team error this season for which he has to pay painfully
I hope the penalise McLaren not Lewis if they do it.
Baddoer
Jun 12 2010, 20:17
I saw there was Ron Dennis in McL pit box so this just beginning...
Augurk
Jun 12 2010, 20:17
Strip his final time. Only one done with too little fuel.
stevvy1986
Jun 12 2010, 20:18
It's not just about a possible weight advantage, it's also the fact that if you have to lap within a certain time in the 3 sectors, and get back to the pits within a certain time, and if you don't do that, then.......as much as it'd be good to have Lewis up there, realistically, if they are penalised, it surely has to be a penalty for Lewis, rather than just a fine for the team (a fine for the team will mean nothing, they weren't driving the car, and other teams would do the same thing, knowing they'd only get a fine). If they do penalise him, just delete his fastest time, and let him use his 2nd fastest time.
KateLM
Jun 12 2010, 20:18
Out of interest, what was Hamilton's next quickest time and what position would it give him? (I imagine its in the region of 3rd-5th...?)
Watkins74
Jun 12 2010, 20:19
QUOTE (phil1993 @ Jun 12 2010, 21:03)

If the FIA do find a fault, surely it should be McLaren who are fined rather than Lewis penalised
That is crazy. Lewis benefited from a light car. The car and driver are one.
phil1993
Jun 12 2010, 20:19
1:15.500 - 4th
Bonaventura
Jun 12 2010, 20:20
QUOTE (Augurk @ Jun 12 2010, 20:17)

Strip his final time. Only one done with too little fuel.
What was his 2nd best time?
QUOTE (KateLM @ Jun 12 2010, 22:18)

Out of interest, what was Hamilton's next quickest time and what position would it give him?
1:15:500 P4
PassWind
Jun 12 2010, 20:20
QUOTE (KateLM @ Jun 12 2010, 21:18)

Out of interest, what was Hamilton's next quickest time and what position would it give him?
4th I think, it was a 15.500 dead where is that at?
Jayman
Jun 12 2010, 20:20
QUOTE (Augurk @ Jun 13 2010, 06:17)

Strip his final time. Only one done with too little fuel.
While I agree that would be the fairest option... just like Michael in Monaco where positions could have been reversed... I don't think they'll do it.
Anomnader
Jun 12 2010, 20:20
QUOTE (Watkins74 @ Jun 12 2010, 21:19)

That is crazy. Lewis benefited from a light car. The car and driver are one.
Sorry, no matter the legality what you have said is technically wrong. As long as it weighs ok then it can't be illegally light.
CaptainJackSparrow
Jun 12 2010, 20:20
To be fair, it is a bit of an advantage.
How can McLaren be so consistently dumb, it boggles the mind.
KateLM
Jun 12 2010, 20:21
QUOTE (phil1993 @ Jun 12 2010, 21:19)

1:15.500 - 4th
That would give him 5th (Alonso 1:15.435, Button 1:15.520)
Thanks
Anomnader
Jun 12 2010, 20:21
QUOTE (Jayman @ Jun 12 2010, 21:20)

While I agree that would be the fairest option... just like Michael in Monaco where positions could have been reversed... I don't think they'll do it.
Totally different scenarios.
Fastcake
Jun 12 2010, 20:21
I seriously hope not, not just for being a Macca fan, but more because this thread will reach at least 50 pages over the next few weeks
Augurk
Jun 12 2010, 20:21
QUOTE (Jayman @ Jun 12 2010, 22:20)

While I agree that would be the fairest option... just like Michael in Monaco where positions could have been reversed... I don't think they'll do it.
Yup, they seem to be applying "fair" penalties at random.
QUOTE (KateLM @ Jun 12 2010, 22:21)

That would give him 5th
Jense is 5th with 15:520.
phil1993
Jun 12 2010, 20:22
QUOTE (CaptainJackSparrow @ Jun 12 2010, 21:20)

To be fair, it is a bit of an advantage.
How can McLaren be so consistently dumb, it boggles the mind.
Such a dumb team to be leading the WCC
BinaryDad
Jun 12 2010, 20:22
QUOTE (Watkins74 @ Jun 12 2010, 22:19)

That is crazy. Lewis benefited from a light car. The car and driver are one.
Did his car fall below the minimum dry weight laid out in the FIA regulations? If not, then Hamilton wasn't benifiting from a light car. The question is, does the in-lap rule still apply after qualifying has finished?
The rule was designed to stop drivers impeding other drivers who were setting their flying laps. Since there were no flying laps being set at this point, I wonder if the stewards will try to enforce the letter of the law or the spriit of it?
phil1993
Jun 12 2010, 20:22
QUOTE (KateLM @ Jun 12 2010, 21:21)

That would give him 5th (Alonso 1:15.435, Button 1:15.520)
Thanks

No, it would give him 4th, as Webber, Vettel and Alonso would move up one place each
Jack Burton
Jun 12 2010, 20:22
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Jun 12 2010, 16:20)

Sorry, no matter the legality what you have said is technically wrong. As long as it weighs ok then it can't be illegally light.
It was illegally light on FUEL - it couldn't make it back to the pits in the requisite time with the requisite fuel. That was the point.
KateLM
Jun 12 2010, 20:23
QUOTE (peroa @ Jun 12 2010, 21:21)

Jense is 5th with 15:020.
Its 1:15.520 according to the live timing.
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