From Don Ridell twitter (CNN).



Article with more stuff.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/motorspo...o.f1/index.html

So nothing new




i couldn't agree more.

All the usual 'teams working together' nonsense we hear from Ferrari, when we know they'll be the first (along with Williams) to break ranks for an extra $50m.

So Ferrari aren't winning, therefore the state of F1 isn't good therefore breakaway.

Tell me, what there is even faintly original?

This «we want more power and more money or we don't sign» is becoming old. A breakaway will not happen, it was clear from last time that all sides were aware that splitting up would do more harm than good.

I wish Luca would, just for once, say clearly what we are already reading bettween the lines.

Video is here: http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/sport...?iref=allsearch

The one thing the teams cannot do is go into the negotiations saying 'we'll take whatever you offer.'

There has to be a credible alternative. Credible means possible.

The question is merely about what it would cost to rebrand the circus from Formula 1 to Grand Prix 1 or something. And rebranding goes on all the time...

I can't criticise what he has actually said here with regard to the '3 options' but yes, Ferrari have betrayed the other teams before in this type of situation.

I never met LDM, but for some reason I very seldom (if ever) disagree with this man. He is dead on on every issue. Love it, and I would not be dismissing this as merely a marketing/negotiating plot; that would be rather simplistic and silly understanding substance behind his words. BE sold F1 several times, F1 teams should take over the sport governance.

Well ... the last breakaway threat was a ploy, to get Mad Max out of the FIA so ...

No, the other teams beatryed Ferrari. Go back for example to meetings in the Brasil and London several years ago - about Ferrai and without Ferrari. Peter Sauber was the only one who had appologised to JT. I think BMW was also not impressed by underhandness some British teams went about it. Ferrari has their side to tell about it.

In new age and BE in retirement, what do teams own to anyone, but to people who invest in the sport. It works in NA, it should work with F1.

"The only thing he has not mentioned is the extra money Ferrari get above all the other teams and all the extra things Ferrari have had for years, the general help they are considered to have had in Formula One.

Ferrari get so much more money than everyone else. They know exactly what they get, they are not that stupid, although they are not that bright, either. They get about $80 million more. When they win the constructors' championship, which they did this year, they got $80 million more than if McLaren had won it."

"They were the only team that broke ranks with the other manufacturers why did they break ranks? That's where the $80 million comes in. We 'bought' Ferrari. We 'bought' Ferrari's loyalty. Our deal with Ferrari was that we 'bought' them so they would not go to the others."

- Bernie Ecclestone


I know you have a penchant for having (ahem) alternative views and would be more than interested in how you would explain away the above.

Oh come on your worshipping of Ferrari is colouring your vision.
It was ferrari who agreed with the FIA to split with the other teams for their blood money when the teams really could have changed F1 for the better.
do you really think the other teams will ever trust or respect the back stabbers in Ferrari ever again?
or do you ignore the fact they (Ferrari) got extra money and extra rights ( read secret veto) for their back stabbing of the other teams.
Clearly your role model is someone i would berate my children for for trying to aspire to.
With Ferrari its all I, ME, MY not US, WE, OURS but i don't expect you to understand morals you follow Ferrari

and your taking Bernies word for it thats it? They (Bernie/Max) gave them money because they knew that if Ferrari sided with the rest of the teams they'd lose, which happened later in 2009.

I will not be surprised if one of the teams or more don't try and under cut their 'brothers' in negotiations over the future of F1

Didn't HRT already get a (admittedly meager) payday from Bernie ?

I am not only taking Bernie's word for it, his comments are just the most explicit.

The reason for such a deal being offered to Ferrari are not in question. It is the fact Ferrari accepted it on that occasion which will be the biggest impediment on the teams having anything like a unified approach in what looks like being a very messy process.

It's an interesting interview with lot's of things to read between the lines and Luca doing what he does best and that's looking out for Ferrari's interests.

I don't think they will settle for an extra $50m.
The more I hear about EXOR, News Corp and now Mubadala moving in on the commercial rights to F1 the more I suspect that's where Ferrari (FIAT) are going to make their extra profit and that way it could be a helluva lot more than $50m.

I don't think LDM really wants last four teams in, unless they substantially change from "also run" to "competed well".

I love how Ferrari thinks F1 needs them more than they need F1 lol

Ferrari are throwing their toys out of the pram again! I bet if they were dominating like Red Bull you would not see such immature statements from them.

I'm sorry, where are the immature statements? Luca has revealed the possible options for the future of F1, that Ferrari have been too conservative, that Massa will be there next year (although that can be taken with a pinch of salt).

He also talked about there being too much tech in F1 taking away from the driver ability, buttons on steering wheel, DRS etc. Also mentioned was the sports expansion to new places, and the return of testing.

All of which is what people are either wondering or know about.

What bothers me a little is I suspect a lot of what Luca rants about is due to the particular issues damaging Ferrari. Alonso loses the title because he can't pass Kubica.. the circuits are rubbish. F1 is too complicated.. in a year Ferrari are not winning. If Ferrari were dominating the sport in the same way Redbull are, would he be complaining like he is here?

You can lol all you want but F1 does need Ferrari - much more than you care to acknowledge. How else do you explain the other teams agreeing to the extra money that Ferrari gets (as cited above)?

I don't think they other teams had anything to do with it to be honest, it was a private agreement between Bernie and Ferrari

Alonso lost title because he couldn't pass Petrov

It's the same old crap from Montelzemelo - "If we aren't winning, F1 is crap, we're not getting a fair share, we're going to lobby for rule changes, or pull out, set up an alternative series" etc....

Wave $50m in his face and a veto over rule changes and he soon changes his mind.

His sabre rattling worked well when the well known Ferrari apologist, Max Mosley was in control of the FIA, but the Scuderia don't enjoy that advantage now.

It is also quite interesting to read Todt's proposals for the re-introduction of testing. Several team principals have voiced their opinion saying that (in general) they do not agree with the idea. I didn't have to scroll to the bottom of the page to find out who was in favour of the idea.

Ferrari are bad losers, always have been, always will be because it's never their fault. They are a great team but they haven't a clue or any concept of how to be gracious in defeat.

Did Ferrari deny what he said ?

Very well then, the lack of revolt from the other teams about such a deal between Bernie and Ferrari equates to acceptance by them. So we'll change the wording to my previous post. The other teams accepted that Ferrari would get more money than they.

LDM is just being more vocal than other bosses. Maybe because being the boss at Ferrari gives him that sort of leverage. And then, of course, he has his own opinions about the direction the sport should take, such as do away with the aero craze, let drivers focus on driving a cars rather than managing buttons, and bring the sport where there is a fan base. I tend to agree.

Some people argue that the circuits in faraway lands are a way to develop the sport in other countries. I... don't think that is the reason Bernie and CVC are happy to race in the middle of the dessert. What CVC wants is to start profiting from its investment ASAP. It will bring the cars to the north pole if they had enough cash to pay for the race. They only care about their bottom line, even if it hurts the long term prospects of this show.

The sport has struggled in the last few years due to the huge costs constructors have to face every year. Honda, BMW, Toyota, Renault already left (Renault team, as far as I know, it is little more than a name). Instead of renegotiating a bigger share of the pie for the teams, the answered from CVC-Bernie was Virgin, HRT and Lotus... How pathetic is that? It is not about making a killing, it is about sharing the burden. CVC is asking constructors, promoters and spectators to pay big time just to make CVC whole. It is leaving the sport out of breath.

I am no enthusiast of News Corp and the possibility of the BBC being replaced by other channel, but just look at the ill-contained joy shown by many bosses and team managers when they talk about these rumors... It is obvious that LDM is not alone in this one.

I never said F1 doesn't need Ferrari. I just said Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari. Ferrari have not been a dominant force in F1 for a while now and the sport is just as strong as ever

The team with their own test track and known for testing day after day around it when it was allowed are in favour of testing, well there is a shocker.

It's all about two things, Money and new 2013 Engine regulations.
Ferari wants more of the first and discard the second.

We'll never be able to prove or disprove your statement unless Ferrari does break away but I would rather that things don't go that far just in case you're wrong.

Say what you want about Montezemolo, but these are still very valid points that he makes.

Maybe Ferrari could run a parallel series. One where they run their cars with V8, V10, V12 engines to promote their super cars. And then also participate in the new peewee I4 engine F1 series. Maybe Ferrari can create an econo version of their cars for under 100K and use the new F1 to sell it.

Everyone wins.

More importantly ferrari can win every race. They will then be the bestest team outside of Luca's fantasy world too.

LDM always sounds like an idiot to me. He should have give in to Italian pressure last year and quit after his teams' Abu Dhabi fiasco.

Bravo Luca! Bravo Bravo!!

Just when it seems that f1 is headed down a dark alley of stupidity as is f1 in 2011 the voice of the Scuderia Ferrari rises and declares that a return to f1's racing soul must be discussed and acted on.

And where Ferrari go, so goes the core of f1 such as Monza and Monte Carlo.

I hope the breakaway goes forward if it means that REAL racing will return and the DRS and stupid areo confifurations such as the super ugly cars and gimmicks of today, including the bad quality tures to order.

Breakaway! Breakaway! even in 2012 if it were possible.

I do not have much time to do so now, but I am fairly certain that if someone took the posters who have bashed LdM in this thread, most of them have probably agreed with him in other threads.





I totally agree with this.

He might not be the best "head" around and for some he could be the son of the devil himself, but, tell me, what has he actually said that is not an opinion shared by many in this forum and other ones?

Or can we bash ferrari any chance we have?

If it was up to me i would go back to Le Mans whit a LMP1,LMP2 & LMPC cars &
start a indycar engine & body kit program for 2013.

And i would drop Ferrari as a F1 constructor and change it to Fiat or Alfa Romeo or Lancia and sell Fiat or Alfa Romeo or Lancia engines to other teams.

I am a McLaren fan but I totally agree with his statements that F1 has been made far too artificial. I want to see racing on the track not in the pit stops and it has destroyed my interest to the extent that I can't be bothered to watch the races now and just check to see the results. I pray that we get back to some proper racing so that my excitement returns.

Pistops have dominated the sport since 1994 when refueling was reintroduced, what we have now is much closer to the pre-94 racing when the teams\drivers had to manage their tyres.

Had to laugh at this line. Didn't he say something similar regarding KR?

So Ferrari will pay massa and take Rosberg or Kubica ? Lol... Bashing Ferrari and Montezemolo is a sport very appreciate in this forum, as always.

The more you learn about the future of F1, the more I agree with Ferrari. The engines can't be agreed upon. The aero regulations won't be changed (or will be the same, just cut down abit). DRS should have just been a stop gap solution until 2013 with bigger KERS and Pirelli Tyres making the races.

F1 is just going down the totally wrong path right now. I see no reason for Manufacturers to be involved, I'm sure Renault would have pulled out entirely if Red Bull hadn't been competitive since 2009 and them having a better 2010. I don't know what the **** Mercedes are doing coming into the sport as a 'factory' team in the worst possible era for anyone who is involved in anything except aerodynamics.

They're saying the cars will be 5 seconds slower in 2013. I mean come on.

Don't take Montezemolo's word for it. Massa's start this season isn't too shabby. The'll only remain at Ferrari for another season so long as he collects points helping the team win a precious WDC. That's currently Massa's only purpose in team. Helping the team win the WDC while breathing Alonso's exhaust. Ferrari has a volatile emotional core. The team can love you today but decapitate your head tomorrow morning. If Ferrari finish far behind Mclaren in the constructors standing due to Massa not carrying his weight then I can assure you that he'll be sacked ahead of 2012.

Surprise, helping the team win a WDC is a Ferrari driver's purpose in the team! Maybe nobody told Felipe? (And I very much disagree about the number 2 stuff, if Massa was consistently faster than Alonso and mounted a credible WDC challenge, Ferrari would certainly be happy to accept a WDC from Felipe's hands)

Exactly. They had no problem getting their highly paid and unofficial #1 driver to support Massa in 2008 when the latter proved to be the contender. Luca also had no problem getting Schumacher back from his injury to support Irvine back in 1999. If Massa starts outperforming Alonso, I can see Ferrari requesting that of him as well.

I can't see the first neither the second. The near future of Ferrari has one name: Alonso.