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Minardi M188B-Subaru

Started by Rainer Nyberg , Apr 19 2002 15:54

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35 replies to this topic

#1 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 15:54

For those who are interrested in obscure F1 cars, you can find interresting pictures of the Subaru powered Minardi test car at :

http://www.carclassi...m/html/CP58.HTM

Posted Image

#2 Geza Sury

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 16:39

Wow Rainer, this is simply great! What a rarity! Do you know anything more about this car? Was it ever tested? By whom? When were these pictures taken? Where? Why did Subaru end up with Coloni instead of Minardi? I'm so curious to find out more!

#3 Gary C

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 17:29

well it certainly says Jose-Louis Sala and Pier Luigi Martini on the cockpit side in the pic...............

#4 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 17:35

My records shows that Paolo Barilla, Pierluigi Martini and Gianni Morbidelli all tested this muletta at Misano during Jun-Aug 1989. As the name M188B suggests, the car was a year old Minardi adapted to take this Motori Moderni designed flat-12. I don´t recall the circumstances around these tests, but maybe the testing convinced Minardi that this engine was not the way to go...

#5 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 17:36

Luis Perez Sala might have also tried the car, I have no notes about that.

#6 marglar

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Posted 21 April 2002 - 01:28

I can't see the picture or access the site. Are they having problems?

On the subject of obscure Minardi's, i have a pic somewhere of the teams truck entry in the 1985 Paris/Dakar Rally. If anyone is interested in seeing it i could have a look around and try to find it. No promises though.

#7 ghinzani

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Posted 10 December 2002 - 05:46

Anyone know where I can get a picture of the whole car? Google came up lumps..

fanks!

#8 quintin cloud

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 18:25

Great Photo Rainer :up:

#9 Vilcornell

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 09:30

I can't remember that Minardi, but I saw the Coloni-Subaru tring to pre-qualify in Imola 1990 (7:30 am); it was really slow, and have had no chance to entry the grid........

#10 Felix Muelas

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 10:14

Originally posted by ghinzani
Anyone know where I can get a picture of the whole car?

There´s one on page 199 of Oscar Orefici´s "Carlo Chiti: Sinfonia ruggente"
It´s in colour, shows Martini at the wheel and it´s incorrectly labeled as "1983"!

fm

#11 Geza Sury

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 12:42

Originally posted by Felix Muelas
There´s one on page 199 of Oscar Orefici´s "Carlo Chiti: Sinfonia ruggente"
It´s in colour, shows Martini at the wheel and it´s incorrectly labeled as "1983"!

fm

You can buy this book now in English it's called the "Roaring Symphonia." I'm just considering the purchase of this book. Felix, could you describe it?

#12 Felix Muelas

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 14:19

206 pages, quite big format. One inch shorter than an A4 and 2 inches wider.

I´ve just counted 146 pictures in BW and, from the Brabham-Alfa period onwards, the majority of the rest are colour (41).

A bit hagiographic, in my humble opinion, Mr Chiti is portrayed in 84 pictures of the 187 of the whole book what is more than enough if you want to have an idea of how he looked when young and then see how he goes on dealing with age...

Some interesting pictures, mainly from the early sixties, the most curious part of the book is 10 pages under the heading "I piloti di Carlo Chiti" where he writes two or three paragraphs about drivers that he likes, either because they drove for his "creatures" either because he feels they should be acknowledged : Baghetti, de Adamich, Depailler, de Cesaris, Nannini, Baldi, Martini, Senna, Galli, Pace, Ireland, FArina, Zeccoli, Pescarolo, Merzario, Ginther, G. Hill, Gurney, P. Hill, Giunti, Frere, Hermann, Watson, Bell, Peterson, Gendebien, Stuck Jr, Ligier, Hawthorn, von Trips, Vacarella, R Rodriguez, Ada Pace, Bandini, Sergio Bettoja, G. Colombo, Collins, Prost, Arnoux, Alboreto, Trintignant, Fairman, T Hezemans, Allison, McLaren, Mairesse, Rindt, Portago, Musso, Bonnier, Chapman, Behra, Brooks, Clark, Piquet, Giacomelli, Fangio, Taruffi, Mass, Patrese, A Campos, Stommelen, BArilla, LAuda, Hunt, Reutemann, Moss, Brabham, E. Fittipaldi, Laffite, Scheckter, Andretti, Gilles, de Angelis, Brambilla, Cheever, Ferrari and Piero Mancini.

It wasn´t my original intention to type them all, but I failed miserably when trying to find the connection between some of them and its place on the list!

Another chapter deals with the technical details of all the engines, with quotes from magazines and reviews appeared all over the world. Interesting.

Of course the bigger interest in my opinion come from the coverage of the ATS period...and that is why I bought it in the first place. Some interesting and not very well known period pictures, mainly of Italian origin and, as opposed to what we are used with British sources, pretty unaccesible too...

Should you buy a copy? I can´t see why not.

un abrazo

fm

#13 Geza Sury

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 14:38

Wow, that's great, thanks a lot Felix. :up:

I think I'll have to get a copy of this book. Hopefully I'll find some info about the Motori Moderni and the Subaru projects in it as well.

#14 ghinzani

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 15:20

Originally posted by Felix Muelas

There´s one on page 199 of Oscar Orefici´s "Carlo Chiti: Sinfonia ruggente"
It´s in colour, shows Martini at the wheel and it´s incorrectly labeled as "1983"!

fm

A book on Ing Chiti - bet thats a good book, especially if it has a chapter on his legendary animal collection!!!

Dont suppose you have a scanner??

#15 Patrick Italiano

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 17:51

I've got a copy at discount price by the Libreria dell'Automobile in Milan. See below.

Being an Alfa nut, I must say I haven't been impressed by that book, even if there are a few good pics.

But at that price I wouldn't have missed it.

http://www.libreriadellautomobile.it

CARLO CHITI: SINFONIA RUGGENTE

Autore: O. Orefici

Profilo di uno dei più importanti progettisti ed elaboratori di motori sportivi cominciando dalle sue prime esperienze presso l?Alfa Romeo all?inizio degli anni 50 fino alla collaborazione con la Subaru nel ?90.

Testo in: Italiano/Inglese
Tipo di copertina: Rilegato
Pagine: 206
Formato: cm. 27x27
Foto COL: 48
Foto B/N: 150

euro 61,98
in offerta a euro 24,79

Usual disclaimer: no link nor interest and so on...

#16 Felix Muelas

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 20:34

Originally posted by Patrick Italiano
...I must say I haven't been impressed by that book...but at that price I wouldn't have missed it.

Very much my feelings...

Originally posted by Patrick Italiano
...Foto COL: 48
Foto B/N: 150

I am really concerned about somehow having missed up to 7 colour pictures in my manual counting, whilst the 4 BW missing from my list...well, I can accept having overlooked the smaller ones! :lol:

Originally posted by ghinzani
... if it has a chapter on his legendary animal collection!!!

No trace of a picture gallery for that, except of course a gremlinesque-looking dog on the front cover...

Originally posted by ghinzani
...Dont suppose you have a scanner??

Obviously you are joking, my dear friend...does 8W ring a bell to you? :rotfl:

Which is the picture that you want, the Martini one? I´ll be delighted, just tell me via PM which email address I should use.
un abrazo
Felix

#17 ghinzani

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 21:52

Patrick thanks for the link - 98 Euros, I will have to see whats in the piggy bank... having bought complete year collections of Autosport for 1974 and 1977 off of E-bay and charged them to various family members I am running out of potential Xmas present donors!!

Felix - thanks very much for the offer, a picture of Piero in the car would be great! I will Pm you my address. And of course I am aware of 8W - how would I get thru night shifts if it was'nt for 8w, Atlas and 10/10ths ??? :lol:

pulgares encima

Ghinzi

#18 Patrick Italiano

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Posted 13 December 2002 - 11:46

Originally posted by ghinzani
Patrick thanks for the link - 98 Euros,

??

The discounted price is 24 euros and some cents:

in offerta a euro 24,79

Sounds better, eh? :cool:

#19 karlth

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Posted 13 December 2002 - 12:58

Subaru Flat 12 with its creator Carlo Chiti

For more information on Subaru's F1 venture with Coloni, click here

#20 petefenelon

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Posted 13 December 2002 - 13:03

Originally posted by karlth

Subaru Flat 12 with its creator Carlo Chiti

For more information on Subaru's F1 venture with Coloni, click here

By 'eck that's a big lump of metal! Doubt there's much change out of 200 kilos in that! I think it's only the third photo I've seen of it (the second being further up this thread, and the first in Motoring News when the engine was "competing" in F1.

#21 Bob Amblard

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 22:32

Hy,

I have never heard about this Minardi-Subaru. Has somone a pic of this test car ?

Gracias.

#22 macoran

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 00:02

Did anyone save some pics from that site ?

#23 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 16:13

Here they are again:

Posted Image

Copyright unknown

#24 RTH

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 16:21

I seem to remember it was a long way off the pace .

#25 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 16:46

The "big lump of metal's" were perhaps better suited for Off shore Powerboats, where they saw use after their brief F1 career.

The rights to the engine was later bought by Swedish supercar manufacturer Koenigsegg.

However, the plan to but it in their car was shelved, they took the much easier Ford V8 (albeit much modified) route instead.

Posted Image

#26 supergrobo82

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 17:01

I was just about to say that Rainer, the Subaru F1 motor was suppose to be in the Koenigsegg. I read about it in the Koenigsegg book that came out several months ago

#27 macoran

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 18:40

Thanks for that Rainer :up:

Snazzy front suspension layout !

#28 Bob Amblard

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 19:05

Gracias Rainer Nyberg.
:clap:

#29 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 09:03

Originally posted by supergrobo82
...the Subaru F1 motor...

It was strictly a Motori Moderni engine, Subaru threw in some money because of the flat/boxer layout (still supporters today of this layout!), so it was co-badged with Subaru, but no technical input, to my knowledge...

#30 fausto

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 09:11

The same engine was also used on the Alba AR20 in 1990 SPWC, the car never qualified, until it changed the engine was changed with a 4.5 Buick V6...on the Subaru engine subject I've a piece from SportscarsInternational about the 1996 Koenigsegg, if someone is interested...

#31 ghinzani

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 23:29

Are those exhausts under the engine???? cant have done much for c.o.g.

#32 Graham Clayton

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:13

Apparently after Minardi finished their relationship with Subaru, the Japanese company then used their engine with a Coloni chassis, which was equally unsuccessful:

http://www.suite101....ormula-1-a75510

#33 Graham Clayton

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 21:55

Here is some footage of the test session of the Motori Moderni-powered Minardi at Misano in mid-1989:

#34 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 22:20

Here is some footage of the test session of the Motori Moderni-powered Minardi at Misano in mid-1989:

Absolutely brilliant!

:cool:

#35 barrykm

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 05:09

Unsuccessful yes, great sound absolutely :up:

#36 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 06:29

Given the fact that Carlo Chiti was involved with Motori Moderni, I have always wondered how many parts of those MM(Subaru) Boxers were of (mid 70's) Alfa Romeo heritage and/or origine....

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