Very harsh Simon! I sat alongside David in a Metro 6R4 on a Rallytrack/Corporate Day some years ago, he seemed quick enough to me then. He was also very surprised, and impressed I think, that I remembered the Agent project to him (he probably thought 'what a sad pratt this bloke is...).

Hope to see him tomorrow evening??

I have a vague recall of David's first race in the Sana being a libre event at Oulton. Could that be it?

David, do you remember?

I think that it could have been a Libre race (as I don't remember ever doing an Atlantic race in it although I do remember doing one of those combined G8 races, but that could have been in the Brabham) and I think I retired after hitting someone that I was lapping - don't laugh Arron!! And as for the Croft incident, what made it 'historic' is that it was the first time that a pace/safety car had EVER been used in the UK!

Picblanc et al:

Any idea who prepared Wes Dawn's Atlantic car in England? I'm trying to trace the history of my 741. He's the one who bought it to the US along with a 742.

Thanks everybody.

I think, if my memory serves me correctly, but please bear in mind that I was only 10 at the time! That David's quite right, I think the photo of his Sana and my dad was a libre race, THis was the final race that Ken took part in: pole, won the race, fastest lap and lapped most of the field! A proper way to retire!!

Ken's penultimate race was also a libre race at Oulton where he was again on pole but it was teeming down in the race and he finished 2nd to a guy in an F3 car I can't remember his name I'm afraid. I think Davina Galica was also in that race too.

Ken didn't take part in the final Indyatalntic race at oulton, I remember watching with him at old Hall and again if I'm right didn't Ted Wentz break a drive shaft on the line as the flag fell?

Ken didn't compete at all in 1977 having sold the car at the end of 1976 to one Eddie Jordan Esq.

Hi David

Thanks for your input. I think the correct answer, then, is probably the MCD Open Single Seater race at Oulton Park on October 2 1976. I can't find the programme, but the pic below confirms your dad's presence in Chevron B29 #62 (car park looks busy).



Judging from the largely blurry images my 15-year-old fingers captured, rivals included Janet McPherson (McLaren M19), Kim Mather (March 742), Jim Evans (Chevron B24 - or possibly a B28, I probably couldn't tell even if the picture was properly sharp), Warren Booth (Lotus 69), Ian Stronach (McRae GM1), José de Uriarte (March 752) and, obviously, the oft-mentioned Mr Winstanley.

Cheers,
Simon

Hi David, welcome to TNF...............I think you should get Ken involved, get his fingers working on that keyboard. I've told him that we WILL meet up this year, the sooner the better. My best wishes to him and of course you and family. For those that don't know, Ken was incredibly under rated, but far too nice to do anything about it........a true Gentleman on and even more so off the track.

Cheers,

David is obviously following his fathers footsteps as he is too modest to point out that's he's the 2007 NW Pre 90 Formula Ford Champion

Good to have you here and congratulations for such a good season.

Cheers,

Alan Raine

Ken Bailey has a unique distinction for me - he was the first racing driver I ever saw wearing a baseball cap. And at Rufforth too - a double distinction, if you like. Probably the first one seen at that windswept venue.

Very good driver too, of course, and one I always enjoyed watching in all kinds of cars. I hope he's keeping well these days.

What a memory you have Ian!

It was white, wasn't it? And I'm sure Ken used to smoke a pipe as well.

Still does.

Might be wrong, but I seem to remember blue or dark red. Perhaps Ken had a wardrobe full of the things. It was the novelty of it that surprised me - one of those great "what the hell is that?" moments.

Ken told me a few years back that he'd fall over without his pipe in his mouth! He had to drive quickly to stop his head dropping!

Cheers,

Back to that great pic of Simon's for a second. So if we think the race is the Libre on October 2nd, could the car following Ken and David be Warren's Lotus 69. Looks like one anyway. 3 F5000s, 2 old F2s, some Atlantics, and no doubt the odd F3/FSV/FF2000. What would we give to go back to those days!

Slightly off topic, anyone know why Mike King was entered by "Bruach Racing"?

It was actually a Winstanley-supplied pic, sadly, rather than one of mine. The Booth Lotus was red and black, though, rather than white, so it wasn't that. It might have been John Bicht getting in a bit of practice ahead of the Indylantic meeting, perhaps?

OSS events used to feature everything from FF1600 cars to F1 cast-offs. I'm sure we'd all love to go back to those days, except 1) my 10-speed Raleigh Scorpio has probably rusted, 2) my sandwiches will have gone mouldy and 3) I'll no longer be old enough to get served legally in The Red Lion.

Cheers,
SA

Going back to a time when Mr Arron’s sandwiches were still edible and Indylantic was launched on an unsuspecting public.

Did the Series not begin with plans to parade the cars through the nearest major town the day before each race? I am sure I remember a picture of the cars driving through the centre of Darlington before the first round of the Championship at Croft.

Can anyone confirm I am not going mad ….and if indeed this was a pre –race ritual did it continue all season?

Kind regards

Phil

I think you're spot on Phil, it was one of many groundbreaking ideas Mr Wardle came up with. Not many survived the first few races though IIRC. Perhaps he was a man ahead of his time, perhaps not...

Shame though, cos FAt had just had its best year over here, 1975, the Indylantic experiment seemed to kill it as a serious Formula for thrusting young drivers. Though given that F3 was on an upward trend from '75 onwards, perhaps Atlantic would have struggled anyway?

The Indyatlantic promotion was certainly different for the time. I must admit at being quite excited by it, but getting disappointed when it fizzled out. I seem to remember the Autosport revue showing a semi topless picture of Fiona Richmond with the comment along the lines of "Fiona dropped a boob and the organisers dropped a few more"

Sad in a way. As much as I liked F3 at the time, Atlantics seemed more powerful and spectacular - they just couldn't get the grids.

thanks guys for all your kind words: I will pass them on to Ken. You're right Geoff, we will get together this year, I will see to that: can't wait to get the 2 of you together again after all these years and hear all the stories from the "good old, bad old" days! Ken is very well and comes to virtually every race meeting that I take part in: driving the stopwatch these days. At least I managed to achieve a life long ambition last season, and that was to win a race at Oulton whilst he was there.

As to whether or not I can get him on the forum....we'll see, he is on the web so I'll see what I can do. The next best thing is that I'll have a rummage through his scrap books and see if I can come across any bits of info or photos that you'll all find interesting. I'll also see if i can get him to recount any tales that I can post,always a bit difficult with Ken as Geoff pointed out: he's so modest even when he's talking to me!

However, in the meantime,a little tale that he did tell me about: this goes back to an Indyatlantic race at Croft in '76. I understand that it was quite common to have various "publicity" events leading up to race day in the nearest town. This day was no exception: there was some sort of a display/concours event lined up and (more interestingly) it had been arranged for the cars to be driven on the public roads around Darlington as a sort of "demonstration"!

Were the roads closed to the public?Er...no! but it was decided that they would have some sort of a police escort.After all, we couldn't have 20 odd Atlantic cars let loose on the public highway with no supevision could we?! because the designated route the drivers were given crossed from one police authority to another, the first part of the run was carried out with police motorcycle outriders who would duly pull off as they crossed "the border" where it had be arranged for another set of motorcycles to take over and finish the route. With me so far?Anyway, as you've probably guessed by now, when the first set of riders departed, the second set couldn't keep up with them! So, you had the sight of a field of Atlantics blasting through Friday's rush hour traffic at highly illegal speeds dodging in and out of Darlington's law abiding motorists on their way back to the circuit!!They must of wondered what on earth was happening to them!!

Anymore tales like this, I'll keep you all posted.

I do seem to remember that we were paraded to a crowd of distinctly underwhelmed spectators at Brands Hatch one time. The problem is that 1. British fans took a lot to get excited in those days and 2. The names David Winstanley, Steve Carvell and Peter Wardle don't exactly make you go weak at the knees do they?

Don't remember any parades though the streets in the London area before the Brands rounds,but the opening 'launch' ceremony was in the piazza area in the Euston Road between the then Thames TV and Capital Radio.

Great to catch up on this thread after a few days away.

David confirmed on another thread that his car went to Andy Barton. As Dan has said, Andy bought this mid 1977 and first raced it at Croft on 10 July. Motoring News (21 Jul 1977 p6) said that the car had been "built in a rush from a box of bits labelled 'Sana' - the car having F2 rear suspension and F3 front". The week before this race, Motoring News (7 Jul 1977 p16) noted that Barton had "acquired an old Sana F2/Atlantic chassis for the rest of the racing season". He'd wrecked his Chevron B35 at Ingliston on 8 May.

The latter 2 make me feel a little queasy...

Dan, you are at it again You have a one track mind ......and I don't mean Mallory Park!!

Kind regards

Phil

While sorting through some boxes that have remained unopened since we moved house some five years ago ...... I came across an old autograph book

As you can see from these two adjoining pages from the book even in 1975 Geoff and Ted’s contributions were in sequence. (Ted has kindly both dated his autograph and given Formula Atlantic a name check!)



Kind regards

Phil

Which one was standing on their head?

Probably me, I never could write proper!

Cheers,

A couple of shots from 1972:


Above: Del Bennett in the Huron - Brands Hatch - April


Above: Ray Allen in the RP12 Royale - Brands Hatch - April

Smashing photos Stephen, is it me or do all the cars these days ALL look the same!!? back in "ye olde days" there was such a variety in the manufactures body shapes etc, even now those old cars just look so right!

The Huron is a very pretty car, methinks. Lovely photos, Steve.

Not only cracking pictures .......... but look how close the barriers are to the track at the top of Paddock


Kind regards

Phil

Good job that chap down in the dip (why do I think it's a Brabham BT28?) spun then...

Was Del Bennett's Huron the first venture into racing sponsorship for Pinch Plant?

I reckon 1972 was the most varied season, chassis-wise. Quite wonderful.

Lovely photographs Steve.

I think the guy down in the dip came off at Bottom Bend (aka Graham Hill Bend or whatever they call it now!)

Thanks for the nice words guys, I will see what else I can find as I trawl through the zillions of slides!

I think they realigned Paddock and the bit you can see there became the run off area.

Nice to see some older Atlantics

In Post #425 Picblanc shows a photo of Wes Dawn's Gil Nickle sponsored March. I understand from Chris Townshend that this car was run by the late Roger Hurst out of Lenham Racing of Kent. Does anyone know how I can reach any of those guys?

Thanks!

I finally unearthed just a few more pictures of the Sana. Interestingly after seeing the first one I realised that I hadn't been wearing my Bell Crash Helmet properly and promptly pulled it down a bit further over my head. Little did I realise at the time what a big head I had!!



This third picture merely confirms the history of the car that we were actually using as reported in Autosport

David tell us more about the mirrors and their mountings. A bit different to anything I've ever seen before.

Wow! My picture I do believe David. At least you still have it - I certainly don't. Can't find any of the damned things....

Never mind the mirrors, I want him to explain why he's wearing Rod Stewart's hair...

Crikey when I was looking at it I was wondering what had happened to you!! Never thought for a minute that MCS was Mark Scanlon, which just about sums up my thought processes doesn't it? Sorry for using your shot, does that mean I'm nicked?

And Simon, as for the Rod Stewart hair - I always was a bit of a hippie, and even now at this moment I'm listening to The Musical Box by Genesis, Peter Gabriel at his most bizarre, and I have about the same amount of hair as him now!

Followed by Suppers Ready!

....or maybe "Watcher Of The Skies"?.....superb music

"Time Table" from Foxtrot has just played on my itunes - Spooky or what?

I find iPods quite intuitive. Mine often selects Squeeze (or Chris Difford) when I'm passing through Deptford on the DLR. My first iPod expired in the middle of The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging (although it tends to play quite a lot of early Genesis, simply because there's rather a lot of it - everything from 1969-1976, basically - on there).

Does anybody have a copy of the Blaster Bates tune about the naming of Knicker Brook?

Sorry this is sooo O/T we could start a Genesis only club.........Anybody seen The Musical Box? The Canadian tribute.....if you get the chance, do, they are unbelievably good, I saw two shows "The Lamb Lies Down" and "The Black Show" (S.E.B.T.P.) just amazing gigs to see in 2006/7

My i-Pod has got nearly all Genesis on it

We've waded through about 473 posts concerning Stephen Choularton's March 73B, Vern Schuppan's Palliser and Winstanley's Sana, so one or two about Can Utility and the Coastliners won't hurt.

Yrs listening to Steve Hackett (Highly Strung),
SA

..... for interested parties......The Musical Box, "A Trick Of The Tail" 23/24th October, nights to remember

http://www.fairfield.co.uk/

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Simon Arron
[B]
I find iPods quite intuitive. Mine often selects Squeeze (or Chris Difford)

..... Saw Squeeze at Salford University as the second band in a line up that also included Radio Stars ( I will be surprised if anyone can remember them) and Eddie and the Hot Rods

Kind regards

Phil

My iTunes is on my iMAC that I work with all day so it stays in one room but it's weird how it picks up tunes that are relevant to what I'm doing!

I've been trying to find Blaster Bates for years. I saw him at the Roebuck Hotel in Stevenage many years ago. Fred Dibna with attitude

Blaster Bates, or whatever his real name was, used to be a copper in Sandbach, Cheshire when I was much younger, not a real copper but someone with real police powers, I forget what they called them. Special constable or something? I remember him pulling a bloke who had parked on double yellow lines in Sandbach Town Centre and gone into a shop just for a minute. The fella said 'but I only stopped for an ice cream' and Bates said, 'well that ice cream just cost you a fiver' or whatever the fine would have been in those days, but god he was funny! If you saw him live you just couldn't stop laughing. Anyone remember 'The shower of shit over Shropshire' or his 'they called it Safari yellow but it was just shite coloured' Volvo'?

And as for Peter Gabriel. Somewhere in my collection I did have pictures of him dressed as a flower and a box, but I can't find them just at the moment. They were taken about 30 years ago and the last time I saw him a couple of years ago he spent time either hanging upside down from the stage or bouncing around in a big ball that seemed to be made out of bubble wrap. So he's still crackers.

Sorry to go so OT.