Bob,
to clear a few things up.
I count Sussex as one county. It's harking back to the old border/counci things but unless people feel otherwise, I'm keeping it the same.

As I've also said before, my listings have to be in basic. I can't do umlauts etc. on my computer sorry, so Scarfiotti, Riess etc. remain just like that.

Spellings - cheers & Taylor, you are correct after checking some other sources.

Robson will be changed, I list them as Canadian but they spent a long time in America. Hal was born in Canada & George WAS born in England.

Cheers

oh, and re. Templeman, yes, I believe so.

Richie

Are you sure you need to change the John Taylor date? His Times obituary has him dying in Coblenz on Thursday 8th September 1966.

Nice to have the old "traditional counties" question rear its ugly head. :\

West Sussex didn't really exist as a county until 1974 so isn't it more accurate to say that Purley was born in Sussex and died in West Sussex.

...though a West Sussex County Council had been in existence since 1888
Confused? You soon will be...
Apparently eastern and western administratve regions were set up in 1888, each with its own county council, though there were not separate counties until 1974...

Regards Sussex, I'd ideally (although I'd appreciate this is hardly an ideal world) like to keep it one way or another. I'd prefer to keep it Sussex, but will kowtow to the majority.

Ken, I checked the sources listed on Motorsport Memorial. They include David Holland & Adam Ferrington, both of whom I trust without limitations, but both of whom haven't flagged it recently, I must admit. Recent obituaries, especially back then, have the habit of being unreliable - Lance Macklin's in Motorsport being a classic example. However, this one hasn't cropped up recently - anyone else want to help put the record straight??

Richie

My vote is for Sussex.

Regarding the Times obit, it appeared in the 10th September 1966 edition of the newspaper, so if it is a mistake - which I agree is quite possible - at least it is a contemporary mistake.

By the way although Motorsport Memorial lists its sources, it doesn't actually specify who supplied what piece of information in an article. It's quite possible that neither Adam or David were responsible for the date of death in the Motorsport Memorial article. Infact I've now gone and checked the Holland/Hayhoe's big yellow data book and that too has 8th September.

Richie,

Re. the Sussex question.........
When I check any pre-1974 birth/death certificates which I have (which doesn't include Lewis-Evans or Purley) they generally do refer to the County of East or West Sussex.
However, coloquially, I agree that just Sussex seems right.
Isn't this somewhat similar to Yorkshire, where coloquially people would say they were born in Yorkshire (as WATN does), but were actually (pre-74) born in the North/East or West Riding?
I think that Lincolnshire fals into a similar category.

Re. John Taylor's death I have not seen a death certificate, so my records have, up to now simply taken what WATN and others have given. I hadn't noticed the inconsistency in Higham's book.
As Ken says, the Times is normally reliable.
I will obtain a copy of the Consular Death certificate, which will give the official date.

Unfortunately John Taylor's death doesn't seem to have been registered with the British Consulate, so no official record of his death date is available.

If the Times says he died on 8th September, I believe we should regard that date as correct until primary information is found which contradicts it. (MSM's date seems to come from Peter Higham).

I've noticed the Pedro Chaves entry in the Where Are They Now page still has him racing GT's. He quit the FIA GT Championship before the end of the 2003 season to accept an invitation to drive the works Renault Clio S1600 in the Portuguese Rally Championship, where he's been driving since.

I checked this out and he has appeared in Spanish GT's on & off since 2003. Admitted, he is an irregular, but he has raced GT's which is why I've kept it in. I am fully aware he has left the FIA GT championship some time back.

1960 Indy 500 starter Wayne Weiler died on Thursday, October 13th, 2005 from a heart attack.

And to add a correction to your list, Wayne Weiler actually made two Indianapolis 500 starts:

1960
Finished: 24
Started: 15
Car#: 32
Name/Entrant: Ansted Rotary
C/E/T: Kuzma/Offy
Qual. Spd.: 143.510
Run/Out: Accident
Laps: 103
Winnings: $4,200

1961
Finished: 15
Started: 12
Car#: 15
Name/Entrant: Hopkins Coral Harbour
C/E/T: Watson/Offy
Qual. Spd.: 145.340
Run/Out: Wheel
Laps: 147
Winnings: $5,040

Very sad news. As one of the youngest drivers remaining from that World Championship era, his death is a big blow. Thanks for this & I will update it & the starts when I'm back in November.

According to his Arizona Birth Certificate, Jimmy Bryan was born on January 28, 1926.

Rick Kelly
Motorsport Memorial

I have just completed research on "G. Charles Cox" who I believe is Charles C. Cox. He died the day after his accident, on the 4th. See the complete results and Sources at Motorsport Memorial's web site: http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus.php?db=ct&n=483&p=y.

I welcome any additional information or corrections to the information presented.

Rick Kelly

Piero Carini was born in Sondrio not in Genova as said.

It’s been a while but the latest update to the site is now up. I believe it’s the largest ever yet still may get eclipsed by the next update, probably some time in January, although timing depends on work. Before I do the updates, I will say that the other projects haven’t been forgotten – in fact they are all ready in skeleton format.
A heck of a lot of updates here AND a lot of mysteries solved – with more on the way!

2005/2006 Updates
Yeley, Warwick, van der Merwe, Vilamill, Tracy, HJ Stuck, Tarquini, A Suzuki, Takagi, T Stewart, Schiattarella, Pirro, Paffett, N Piquet, Meira, Monterio, Mansell, Lavaggi, Lancieri, Janis, Giebler, Heylen, Hornish, Herta, Gavin, J Gene, Hakkinen, P Friesacher, Castroneves, Dixon, Caffi, Danner, J Bell, Briscoe, Albers, Bourdais, Ayari, Bertuzzi, Baumgartner

General W.A.T.N. updates
A Unser – sadly has been ill lately but improving
P Rice
Lederle
C Lawrence
Crombie
Campbell-Jones
Ashdown
Brock

New Information
Zengel birthplace
Wayne Weiler, as you will all know, died recently.
Whitehouse – revised & corrected birthplace
Dl Whittington – birthplace
Wall – year of birth & birthstate
J White – birthplace
Wilcox II – year of birth & state of birth
Van Ranst
Van Gorder – full birthdate & place
Bob Schroeder – NEW ENTRY! DD has told us that Bob & Rob Schroeder are different men, so… new birthdate & place for Bob, whilst Rob’s entry revised.
Ji & Ja. Stewart – revised & correct birthplace
Shattuc – full birthdate, revised state of birth
Strang – year of birth
Mel Stringer – full birthdate & partial deathdate
Toft – full birthdate
Thiesen – birthplace
Tower – birthplace
Sauce – full birthdate
Rooney – full birthdate & place
Rogers C – full birth & death dates
Romano birthdate
EE Rawlings – full birthdate, place & what EE stands for!
Patterson – birthstate & year
D Paul – birthstate
Prentiss – deathplace
Ordstrander revised spelling to Ostrander
F O’Neal – full birthplace & date & virtually full deathdate & place
Madden - full details
C Moran – I was going to say full details – PLEASE IGNORE ENTRY DATES – I have since found out that is not our CM, but I have CM’s real details. It was a choice of two, I chose wrong!
Monahan – revised real surname & full birthdetails
Monterio – revised expanded birthplace
Mais – full birthdetaisl
Marquette – full birth & death details
Matsubara – year of birth plus info
Mauro – birthplace
R W May – full birth details – have since discovered his full death details but that’ll be in the next update!
Mazzucco – full birthdetails
Mertz – partial birthdetails
Langley – full details
Le Cocq – full birthdate
Le Cain – full birthdate, real name but another who has been “solved” since this update!
Bubby Jones – birthplace
Sh Kinser – deathplace
Dee Jones – birthdate
Klien A – birthdate
Johnson A - birthyear
Gregory – revised deathplace
Gaze – revised birthplace
C Gardner – full birthdate
Gelnaw – full birthdate
Roy Graham – full details
N Hall – birthplace
H Hill – full birthdetails
H Hunt – birthyear
R Howard – birthplace
CG Howard – full birthdetails
Ellingboe – full birthdetails
L Frayer – full brithdate
Malcolm Fox – birthdate & deathdate/place
Ellis – full birthdate
Engle should be Engel - birthplace
Farner – birthdate
Endicott H – deathplace
Fernic – deathdate & place
D’Alene – virtually full details
Curtner – deathplace & rough birthyear.
Delaney – birthplace & info
Comer birthdate & revised deathplace
Clum – deathplace
D Davis – revised birth & death places
GC Cox – virtual full details
Cariens & Cortner birth detauils
Belcher – revised birthplace
WW Brown – revised birthdate & place
Brubaker – full details
Ansterberg – info & full birthdetails
B Bonner – birthplace
Baumann – deathplace & how
N Brown – birthplace
Aitken - deathplace
L Allen – nearly full info
Bragg – birthdate
Bryan – revised birthdate
Bergdoll E – birthdate
Billman – birthdate
Belt – deathdate & place
Brandfon – year & country of birth
Belt – birthplace
H Butcher – full birth details
Broeker – deathplace
Burbach – birthdate & deathdate/place

Thanks
David Hayhoe, David Holland, Mike Tanney, Donald Davidson, Indy Richie, Bob Simbel, Rick Kelly, Sheryl Belcher (great-great grandaughter of Fred), Mischa Bijenhof, Allen Brown, Bill Hughes (grandson of Ed Madden)


Also all the GP totals have now been updated to end of season 05 & Speed & Rosberg have been added to the F1 list. There have also been spelling checks & other small amendments


Phew!! I think that’s it – a lot of Indy mysteries solved in this one & the update currently on now – it’s only been recently that I’ve had the time to do this kind of research.


Finally, Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to everyone – one hopes 2006 will continue solving the mysteries of racing past!

Excellent job Richie Sorry I wasn't able to contribute to this round, you folks have done fine without me

I've been busy digging into the same area for NASCAR drivers.

I can confirm Mike Hiss and could probably put you in contact with him .

Jim, that's fine - maybe there'll be a crossover.

For those who specialise in birthdates, Rewind included, there are a few more I missed off my update page as there were simply too many!! I still might have missed some but I would suggest checking all those updated last time out & see the differences - anyway - Al Aspen has been sorted & John Boling's birthdate likewise & I think Curtner's details were complete.

By the way, although I have spent time on this, I wouldn't have achieved half of much if it wasn't for ancestry, where most of this comes from - their two new databases - the complete 1920 census & the complete WW1 Draft Cards has been absoluety invaluable & likewise, rock solid sources.

All I need now is an Indiana births & Indiana deaths 1911-2005 & I can retire.

One quickie from a recent Octane magazine - Enrico Bertaggia of Formula 1 DNPQ fame is now an instructor for Ferrari; he is the Ferrari Maserati UK’s Chief Driving Instructor and is going to teach rich chaps and chapesses who join the We're Rich Bastards Who Can Afford Ferraris Club or whatever it's called how to drive them flat chat.

Right, another update & this too has turned out to be the largest. I’m pleased, personally, to see so many mysteries being solved. Possible new project on the way this year, if all goes well, but for now, here’s what I hope will be the last update for a little bit, only to give myself some breathing space & allow some to digest new information.
@ Reinhard: I still think a general update like this is good for your “Birthdays Database” but if you want a list of new information with the information on, let me know.

NEW DATA:
Albertson, Burt, Dempsey, J Russo birthdate & place (Russo revised deathplace)
Belcher – birthyear, revised birthplace & deathplace & more W.A.T.N. info
Bonadeo, Buzane, Hubbard , Threshie, C Burton, Basle, G Benson, de Tommaso, Hitke, H Knight, Danny Jones, Leighton, B Jourdain, JC McDonald, Opperman, Tramison, Wearne, West, Weatherly, Willman – full birthplace
Christiaens – full deathplace, working on his birthdate – birthplace amended
Coulthard, Flockhart, Carini, M Jones -revised birthplace
J Cooper, Fernic, Sheffler, Baumann, Denver, - full birthdate (and revised birthplace Cooper)
B Endicott – revised birthdate, place & other info – H Endicott’s birthplace likewise amended
Giba - deathplace
S Hudson, Drollinger, H Jones, Momota, B Miller, Strang, Snyder, H Shaw – birthyear (and place in Miller, Strang & Drollinger’s case)
DeFraties, Light, Le Cain – full deathdate
M Sailer, Dan Cain, Franchi – deathyear
T Chamberlain, Kreiger – FULL (and revised) birthdate, place & deathdate & place.
C Crawford – revised birthplace & date
F Davidson, Hickey, Moran– full birth details & almost complete death details (missing the day only) (Moran’s is now CORRECT)
Foley & B Pearce – full death details & almost complete birth details (I know the year, but not the date)
Loquasto – full birthplace & deathplace
McKenna, W May, H Sharp – full death details
Monahon – birthplace, deathplace & partial death details
McNay – partial birth & death details
Dickie Reese – full details
Sherman – full birthdate, deathplace & interesting news of what his real name is!
Wilcox II – date of death amended

05/06 WHERE ARE THEY NOW
Alonso (07 update!), Mi. Andretti, Angelelli, W Taylor, Barilla, Bjork, Doornbos, Campos, Dana, Corradi, Haywood, Giebler, F Giaffone, R Gordon, Haberfeld, Kinser, Montagny, Massa, PJ Jones, Julian, McNish, Magnussen, Meira, A Muller, Nissany, Paffett, Panis, Pescarolo, T Scheckter, B Rice, Rosenblad, Schrader, S Sharp, Scasellatti, Theys, J Villeneuve jr., Viso, Van Hool, Van Hooydonk, Tuero, Wheldon, Zonta, Wurz

OTHER WHERE ARE THEY NOW
(quite a bit this time, some interesting ones)
H Lewis, Meyer E, Alliot, Ahrens, Bagley, Byrne, Baldi, J Bailey, S Arnold, Ballabio, Belso, Berg, Bertaggia, de Villota, Cottaz, de Adamich, Carcasci, Dacco, P Carter, Cheli, Comas, TCarlson, Erwin, Eyckmans, Dismore, Bob Evans (F1), Elford, B Frey, Fabre, Henton, B Hunt, Gache, Godin, Ja. Guthrie, Garza, Hesnault, Hytten, Ickx, Jarier, Lohr, Kempton, Milton, Katayama, Lucchinelli, B Johns, Ligier, Marko, Mancini, Mansell, McGehee, PL Martini, Posey, Olivier, Panychrz, Nissen, S Robertson, Stirling, Spataro, T Sneva, N Simon, Rutherford, Rupp, G Ray, Ribbs, Santal, Sullivan, Raphanel, Al.Ribeiro, HJ Stuck, E Thompson, Unser Jr, Velay, Tarres, Terrien, Tassin, Varano,
Tolsma, A Unser, B Unser, Witherill, S Watson, Wilds, Warwick, Yoong

Ruby – very sadly, in ill health but Pavicevic much much better, to balance it out a little


OTHER
Cantlon – amended. Not Andrew at all. Likewise, John Vance is definitely NOT Aaron Vance.
Gibbons – basic information
Woodford – hometown (not birthplace-note!) & initials
Clerico – corrected spelling of first name
“Ned Meyers” is, I’ve found out, Eddie Meyer, brother of Lou. I suspected it, but wanted to make sure.
Red Roberts is a mistake by a newspaper. It should be FRED Roberts of Danville, Illinois!
Numerous updates, refreshing, tidying-up etc.


THANKS
Reinhard (Rewind), Adam Ferrington, Sheryl Belcher, Ensign14, Alessandro Silva, Jimmy Piget, Rick Kelly & Antonella, Tony de Tommaso's PR Girl.






Right, I'm bloody knackered & that was just writing out the updates!!!! Time to rest me thinks!

Yes, please!
That list should be very useful (and spare me a lot of time).

I'll PM you later with these updates in list form, then, once I've sorted some other things out first. It's just the dates you need, yes?

So you thought you were finished with corrections??

Dick Atkins' date of birth is 23 April 1936 (not 1938).

Sources: Social Security Death Index;
California Birth Index, 1905-1995;
California Death Index, 1940-1997.

Full name: Richard Charles Atkins.

On 12 November 1966, Don Branson, a two-time sprint car champion, lost it in a corner at Ascot Park (Gardena) and was unavoidably hit by Atkins when Branson's car came off the wall and into the fast lane. Branson was killed instantly. Atkins died the next day from what at first was believed to be burns from the flames of the wreck. An autosy revealed that he had received minor burns, easily survivable; cause of death was from a fracture to the rear of his skull.

Atkins was an emerging talent. Only three weeks earlier he had won his first USAC Championship race. He had qualified 33rd at the 1966 Indy 500, but was later bumped out of the race. With movie-star good looks and a terrific smile, he had become a big favorite with California enthusiasts.

His close friend and team-owner, J. C. Agajanian, called on USAC to require rubber bladders in fuel tanks, so this accident might be the genesis of a major, life-saving safety improvement that has since been adopted by most racing organizations.

Dick was survived by his wife, Shelly Jean; two sons, Richard Charles, Jr., 11, and Ronald Frank, 9; and seven-day-old daughter, Michelle Marie.

Thanks

Many thanks, Richie! Yes, it's sufficient. Much appreciated!

From a biography written by Steve Butler's son at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Butler. Steve Butler was born September 26, 1956 in Amarillo, Texas. I know he raced out of Kokomo, Indiana, but Amarillo, Texas is his birthplace.

Thanks! Amarillo, Texas, is famous here for being in a quite brilliant song by Tony Christie

Okay, the latest updates are up – most of them relate to either new drives for 2006, or some Indy 500 information found.

2006 Updates Alesi, Aguas, Ayari, Briscoe, Barron, T Bell, Camathias, Cochet, J Davies, Euser, Erwin, Deletraz, Guerreri, Giroix, C Fittipaldi, Gabbiani, Glock, Freisacher P, Firman, AJ Foyt & AJF 4, L Foyt, Gollin, Gomez, A Garcia, Fernandez, N Hattori, Horner, Hearn, Henzler, Herbert, Hoshino, Helary, Lemarie, Jourdain, Junqueira, Lazzaro, M Lauda, Lopez, Karthikeyan, Kerr, B Lazier, Kristensen, Janis, Julian, Lammers, Kiesa, Meira, Morbidelli, Montagny, Meneghello, Manning, Montermini, Menu, McGehee, O’Connell, Pizzonia , Roth, Piquet, Rangoni, Pruett, Rostan, Policand, Ruberti, Rydell, Schneider, Scheckter T, Scassellati, Tracy, Vasser, Tinseau, Theys, Tielemans, Wheldon, Wirdheim, Weaver, Wurz, Yoong, M Wilson, J Ward

General News Berger back in F1
Benson – on his boat
Some famous names have retired & some have returned!
Those who have retired & are trying something else: Bernard, Brack, Croceri, T Fabi, M Smith
Those who are back – Moreno, Unser Jr, E Cheever, Heyer(!), Needell, Nakano
Gaze now an OAM to go with his DFC
M Roe back in Ireland.
Salazar – driver manager to go with his racing

New Information Atkins birthdate corrected
Butler birthdate & place corrected
Deathdates (some of these amended) for Butcher, Brock, Cobe, C Crawford, Chittum, Duff, Decker, Disbrow (corrected), A Duray, W Endicott, Jagersburger, A Johnson, Kohlert, A Klein, , LeCain, Kilpatrick, Z Meyer, Morton, E Miller (I), Ormsby H, R May, Patterson, Palmer, Shambaugh, Shoaff, M Sailer
Maynard Clark, Sam Hoffman, George Mason – info changed, please disregard old information.
Birth year for Devigne
Lee Drollinger, Jesse Rose & obviously Paul Dana have died.
Gilhooly, (note spelling), Pullen, Yeager (again, note spelling) – NEW, CORRECTED, COMPLETE INFORMATION
Fountaine & Whalen – birthdates, places found
Galvin – still waiting for full details, but birthplace not Dublin.
Hutchinson – made his bio entry correct
Langley – new dates
Nemesh, J Rathmann, Spangler – corrected birthplace
Cy Marshall – at last, at long last, his birthplace!
C Moran – new (and sad) info
Fred Roberts – complete B & D Info

Others
Two bits of new info & new entries here:-
Percy Ford only raced in 1921, Roscoe Ford was the relief driver in 1929, so he’s the one added.
Likewise, Rollin Walt May & Walt May were two different men!
GP drivers totals updated & Yuji Ide added.
Any blank countries filled in as USA unless otherwise known.
Continued tidying up where possible.
Rodee instead of Rodeghier – as someone pointed out, it’s better to have the name they raced with in this case.

Thanks
Rick Kelly, Edward Fitzgerald, Allen Brown, Indy Richie, Mike Thomsen, Arcarace, Adam Ferrington

Sad News!

Bob Veith passed away Wednesday, March 29 at Sutter Hospital in Santa Rosa, Calif.

And now, in many recent articles and even on the ESPN broadcast of the IRL race at St. Petersburg today, Paul Dana birthdate is listed as April 15, 1973. Not 1975, even though that's what his website states. Maybe he did this so he could get a ride a little easier, because of his age. We know he wouldn't be the first one to do this. But I don't know for sure if it's true or not.

Indy Richie - firstly, thanks for the very sad news about Bob Veith. Whilst in Europe we're doing well recently, a lot of Indianapolis drivers seem to be passing away recently

Secondly, yes, I did notice that too. What I'll do is check his SSDI information next month, along with Drollinger's. That should answer it - to use a non-racing case, Al Lewis, the actor, always claimed to be 95, when he was only 82, which the SSDI found, so we'll see.

Of course, that was the case with Ratzenberger, too.

One more correction. A few days ago, I watched a tape of the 1998 Bump Day and the pit reporter for ESPN talked to Brian Tyler who was in his driver's suit and was getting ready to make a qualifying run in the Jonathan Byrd's Cafeteria #10t. He did not qualify. But he tried again in 1999 on Bump Day, but never got the chance to qualify before the rains came and washed away the day. He practiced in the morning in the Genoa Racing/Delco-Remy #36.

On your list, it has him only being there in 1999. It was actually 1998 and 1999, and DNQ's in both of those years.

This site states the the birthdate of Ed Crombie as October 13, 1945.

Latest updates are now up - the next WATN, all being well, will have two new sections! More of that later.
For now:


2006 Updates
Couciero, Glock, Hornish, Marques, van Hooydonk, Bouillon, T Bell, J Bucknum, Caffi, Carpentier, Colciago, Corradi, da Matta, Enge, Eyckmans, Derichebourg, Dare, C Fittipaldi, E Fittipaldi, Filip, Foyt IV, Gidley, Giebler, Gounon, Gregoire, Hesnault, Heylen, Hancock, Herb, Ide, Johansson, Janis, PJ Jones, M Jourdain, J Lazier, PL Martini, O Martini, McGarrity, Montagny, Manning, Perez Sala, Papis, Nielsen, Pantano, Plata, Roth, Salo, Simmons, Schwager, van der Poele, Toccacelo, Theys, Verdonck, Yasukawa, Zoboli

General News
M Taylor, D Hill, Krisiloff, Leclere, Matson, Trucco

Deaths/Driver Wellbeing
Kay, Oakes - ill-health
Serrurier
Servoz-Gavin
Drollinger
Veith


New Information
O'Brien - tentatively going with full dates
B Adams, Clemens, B Evans, Wa Jones - birthplace/year
Aguas, C Bigelow, Gibbons, Herr, Keene, Lanier, Mais, Paul, C L Rogers, Shattuc, B Turner- birthplace
E Bergdoll, Disbrow, B Endicott, Z Meyer- deathplace
Christiaens - amended deathdate/added birthyear
Crombie, de Andrade, Delaney, Filhol, Farr (and place), Dan Murphy (and place), Painter (and place), Stokes, Sherwood (and place), Willmann - birthdate
Cain, R Ford, Grecco, Wi Jones, Melcher, Ed Miller (I), Sparks - FULL birth & death information
M Clark - full birth & death information (not after I "changed my mind", more poor information from a normally reliable US source, Reinhard! ) & Stockman - which is correct, and different from before.
Dana's birthyear amended
Hickey full deathdate
Lytle - deathplace & date
D Thomas - birthdate amended, birthplace added
Woodford - full name, birth year, place & full death details.

Others
Lammers - Bas & Jan no relation
All the new Indy 500 qualifiers added, and totals updated, likewise Grand Prix totals updated
Bits & pieces of new information re. Indy drivers where known
Charles Arnold & Rudolph Wehr have been removed. After poring through newspapers etc., I can't see that they actually attempted a lap around Indy.
Buxton nationality changed
ADDED Eckerle (full details),Green and Melaun (partial details) - both Indy 500 attemptees not already listed.
other minor mistakes/spellings corrected, incl. Jesse Rose, still alive!

Thanks
Reinhard, Rainer Nyberg, Richie Murray, J-P Cunha, Hieronmyus, Ensign, Rob Ryder, Richard Armstrong, Mike Tanney, Mike Thomsen, Indianapolis Star, Norm Stokes (son of Wally), Jim Mulligan, Gerr, Jim Michels, Joris Mueffels

Good evening gents,

Jim Michels has brought to my attention that the date of birth of Eddie O'Donnell is in error.

According to the California Death Index, Edward O'Donnell, age 33 , died in Los Angeles on 26 November 1920. Place of birth is not given. Spouse's initial is D or C.

The Los Angeles Times, 26 November 1920, page I1 and 2, states the following about Eddie O'Donnell:

"Eddie O'Donnell is a native of White water (sic), Wis., 31 years old. In 1912 he began his racing career as a mechanician and drove in his first race at Kalamazoo, Mich., in 1914, winning second place in the 100-mile contest. He took second place in the Corona (Cal.) road race the same year. In 1915 he tarted in ten races and finished in nine, much time in the money. Twice he won first place and three times he was second. Twice he was third and twice he won fifth place. He won the Ascot Sweepstakes, the Corona and Fresno road races in 1916. At the Kansas City race, July 22 1917, one of his arms was shattered in a smashup. In efforts to have it set right, it was rebroken on the operating table several times. He did not race again until last year when he drove in two races at Sheepshead Bay, New York. He came in fourth in the one, July 4, and second in the one in September. This year O'Donnell was placed fifth in the 250-mile inaugural race on the Los Angeles Speedway, February 28, and third at Uniontown, June 15. In the Elgin road race, August 23 (28? - illegible), last, he finished fifth, and fourth in the Uniontown race on Labor Day."

- - - -

The difference between age 50 and 31 or 33 is significant.

Frome the 1920 United States Census:

I have found Edward O'Donnell (age 33) and his wife, Ollie O'Donnell (age 29), renters in Los Angeles. Edward was born in Minnesota. Ollie was born in Wisconsin. Edward is shown to be a mechanic by trade.

- - - -

According to an article in the Boston Daily Globe of 27 November 1920, page 9, datelines Nov. 26:

"O'Donnell died in a hospital early today, about 16 hours after the accident. He did not regain consciousness.

and:

"...plans for O'Donnell's funeral depended upon the wishes of his parents, whe reside in Whitewater, Wis."

- - - -

From the Los Angeles Times of 27 November 1920, page I15:

"A. S. Duesenberg, owner of the squadron of racing cars, stated last night he will not leave Los Angeles until definite arrangements have been made for the disposition of O'Donnell's body. The dead man's parents live in Whitewater, Wis., and though it is probable the body may be shipped there, it is the desire of Mr. Duesenberg and Mrs. Ollie O'Donnell, the widow, to have the funeral services and burial take place in Los Angeles where O'Donnell had so many friends. A telegram was sent last night to Mr. and Mrs. O'Donnell, the parents, asking permission to conduct the burial services here."

- - - -

Thus, although we do not have Eddie O'Donnel's birth date, we know that he was born in Minnesota, and was 33 years old on 08 January 1920, the date the U. S. Census enumerator, Martha Glusband, took the information.

- - - -

What say thee?

E. R. Kelly, Motorsport Memorial
erkelly2@cox.net

I suppose so, yes. Certainly some learned people on here have said his birthdate is wrong in the past.
I think I know where the other date gets its credence.
It was already "up" when I started searching, but when I checked the Wisconsin Birth Index 1820-1907, there is only one E O'D - b. 1 May 1870, in the same county as Whitewater. That seemed to verify the earlier information already in public use.
But, of course, if E O'D wasn't born in Wisconsin, but grew up there, that makes all the difference.

So, yeah, I'm happy with the change, even if it does add to the long list of mysteries to be solved.

Three notes to the Eddie O'Donnell info:

1) Jim Thurman was Jim Michels' source regarding the fact that O'Donnell was 33, not 50 years old.

2) The World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918, show more than 90 Edward O'Donnells, in many variations of first and middle names.

One stands out as a likely hit on our subject:

Edward Thomas O'Donnell; Birth Date: 20 December 1886; born in Minnesota; Registration place: St. Paul, Ramsey County, Minnesota.

3) The Edward O'Donnell, 50 years old, from Whitewater, Wisconsin, did exist as shown; I wonder if he might have been an uncle, given that our Edward's parents were in Whitewater, Wisconsin in 1920?

Rick Kelly
Motorsport Memorial
erkelly2@cox.net.

It's not him. This O'Donnell was an admin clerk for Minnesota Transport. Besides, I don't think THE E O'D was living in Minnesota at this time.

You are correct.

He and spouse also had four children. It just didn't seem logical for the two adults to not have their children with them.

ERKelly

From this thread

Marty Roth has qualified for two Indianapolis 500's: in 2004, finishing 24th and in 2005 finishing 31st. He also attempted to qualify in 2006 but hit the wall on Bump Day.

And Brian Tyler also made appearances in 1998 and 1999 during qualifying runs but never got up to speed in either year in the Jonathan Byrd Racing #10 car in 1998 and ISM Racing's #36 in 1999.

Gents,

Chester L. Gardner was not born in Colorado. He was born in Missouri.

The other three brothers were:

Ray Alva Gardner, born in Missouri

Paul Theodore Gardner, born in Missouri

Dean Orville Gardner, born in Colorado.

The parents were Charles E. Gardner and Rozella J. Gardner.

Sources:

1880 United States Federal Census
1900 United States Federal Census
1910 United States Federal Census
1920 United States Federal Census

Date of birth of Chester L. Gardner was in March of 1898, so the information on his date of birth is probably correct.

Rick Kelly, Researcher
Motorsport Memorial
erkelly2@cox.net

Thanks, Rick.
From the WW1 draft card, Chester Leroy Gardner b. 16/3/1898, Grant, Missouri.

Love the site. You guys have done a brilliant job with collecting and recording all the information that you have. A lot of hard work and time must have gone into it,But I'm telling you that its worth it for a racing fan like me .I found it very useful when trying to find out more information about certain drivers I like. Got a lot out of it. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, DF

Okay, the latest updates are there now, plus other sections as well. But I'll cover the other sections elsewhere on TNF. The updates this time deserve a bit of mention themselves. In future, this'll be where all the updates go:

2006/2007 Updates
Mi. Andretti, Marco Andretti, Artam, Briscoe, J Bucknum, S Fisher, Giebler, Ide, Kanaan, Kite, Langhorne, B Lazier, Liuzzi, C Mears, Meneghello, Mikola, Montagny, Montoya, Patrick, Papis, Pirro, de la Rosa, Schiattarella, A Speraficio, Van der Merwe, Verstappen, Villeneuve, Webber, Wurz

General News
Bucci, Boldrini, Cleberg, Crooks, Cordts, D'Orey, de Riu, L Foyt, Favre, A Ferte, Goudchauz, F Giaffone, Jim Guthrie, Lehto, Knycz, Lawrence, Miles, Monti, Palmroth, G Rees, Schwelm-Cruz, Trolle, Tacchino, E Thompson, van Lennep, Walther, Zimmerman.

Deaths/Driver Wellbeing
Dacco & Serrurier have died.
da Matta is still in ICU.
I Stewart has been ill. (Get well soon, Ian!)

New Information
FL Adams, W Butler, Edmunds, B Jones, Mourre, Matson, Stringer, Tesini, Voulaz (and amended nationality) - birthplace
Ainslee - full details & corrected surname.
Boling, Buzane - full death information.
Chittum, L McCoy, Scotti - deathplace (and WATN info for McCoy)
Engel - full birth details & WATN
Dudler - birthplace & WATN
T Duncan - full name, corrected birthplace & full deathdate.
Donaldson - full birth & death details, corrected WATN info & added new WATN info
Frayer, Knipper, Thiesen - full death details (and amended birthplace - Thiesen)
Franchi - birthplace, deleted deathdate.
Goode, Kreis, G Mason, Shackleford, Wilcox II - full birthdate
A Klien - full birthdate, and deathplace.
M Jones, Patterson, S Palmer - full birthdate & birthplace
MacDougall - corrected surname spelling and full birth & death details
E Meyer, Mertz, Ostrander - full birth & death details
Thiele - birthyear amended.
Vukovich (1) - birthplace amended.

Others
Kubica's in F1 & added. Likewise, Yamamoto.
Salazar's protege is Scuncio, not Sciuto.
GP totals updated
O'Donnell's birth info removed, and amended.
Larry Wall's info removed.

Thanks
Nanni Dietrich, Indy Richie, Eugen, Leo, Earl Ma, Don Wooley, Rob Young, PCM, Rick Kelly & David Holland.

To Richie
A little quick update for your new North American...WATN section.
John Richards is american - born Oct.27 1951,Waco,TX. Residence(at least in 87) listed as Seeley Lake,MT.
Nicola Marozzo`s residence usually given as Zumpano,ITA.
Sources: This time CART media guides.

Thanks Malvi! Wow, that was quick!

By the way, I've only just noticed your post now - on the other CART thread about Harry & Barry Ruble. Which is good, as thanks to your information, I now have Barry Ruble's details, but not good as it'll say Harry Ruble for a bit!

Just for your, and anyone else's information, John Richards was another to fudge his age, apparently. I have just checked the Texas Birth Index with your information, and he was actually born on the same day in 1948.

Does anyone tell the truth about their age?

He apparently still lives in Seeley Lake.