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fines
Top job! up.gif
Gabrci
Hi

First, thank you so much for this excellent effort.

There is one thing I noticed and it's about Piet de Klerk.

The Piet de Klerk on this site:

http://www.steyr-motors.com/distributors/h_world.htm

is not him, although unfortunately I don't know what the real de Klerk is doing these days.
Richie Jenkins
Originally posted by Gabrci
Hi. First, thank you so much for this excellent effort.

There is one thing I noticed and it's about Piet de Klerk. The Piet de Klerk on this site:
http://www.steyr-motors.com/distributors/h_world.htm
is not him, although unfortunately I don't know what the real de Klerk is doing these days.


Thanks Gabrci. up.gif Again, I was given that info in good faith, so apologies. I think de Klerk is pretty much taking it easy nowadays isn't he?
Gabrci
I don't know, but I thought I'd add that this Piet de Klerk (or to be exact his PA) knows the contact (just a PO box address) of the real Piet de Klerk.
fines
Dunno if this is the right place to inquire, but maybe Richie has a ready answer. Recently I have been paying attention to autographs to check the spelling of names, which is quite fruitful by the way, and I found an autograph by Frank Luptow which said "Lueptow". Now I'm well aware that this is the original spelling of his name, but I was surprised to find him autograph like that, I was under the impression that he had changed his name legally. Now what of that, is "Luptow" after all just a typo that has simply outnumbered the correct spelling? confused.gif
Richie Jenkins
Originally posted by fines
Dunno if this is the right place to inquire, but maybe Richie has a ready answer. Recently I have been paying attention to autographs to check the spelling of names, which is quite fruitful by the way, and I found an autograph by Frank Luptow which said "Lueptow". Now I'm well aware that this is the original spelling of his name, but I was surprised to find him autograph like that, I was under the impression that he had changed his name legally. Now what of that, is "Luptow" after all just a typo that has simply outnumbered the correct spelling? confused.gif


One would presume it was a "brainfade" from Frankie when signing - signing his real name, rather than his nom de plume.

SSDI indicates it is Lueptow - "Frank Luptow" on Ancestry brings up nothing.

I was under the impression that Luptow was only his racing name, and never his actual name. I thought his case was akin to Duke Dinsmore, aka Carlyle Dinsmoor.
erkelly2
Although you do not show fatalities of "riding mechanics", it might be worthwhile to mention in Arthur Thurman's notes that his riding mechanic, incorrectly identified as Nicholas Mollinard, was actually Nicholas Molinaro, and the riding mechanic survived his critical injuries.

Molinaro was born on 28 July 1885 in Montclair, New Jersey (WW-I Draft Cards).

1920 Census shows him living with his parents in Newark, New Jersey, with wife Rachel.

1930 Census shows Rachel, divorced, living with her parents, Joseph and Jenny Dormi, in Newark, with her three children, Peter, Nicholas and Eugene Molinaro. Could not find her ex, Nicholas.

Rick Kelly
Oklahoma City, OK
Nanni Dietrich
I'm searching about the fate of Wolfgang Schütz, a rough German driver, one of the prominent racers of the early seasons of the Renault Europa Cup. He won the title in 1981, seem to remember that edition of the series was held with Renault 5 Alpines (or Turbo ?).

Wolfgang Schütz had a huge crash during a race in 1989 or 1990 and it was reported he had been hospitalized in a coma and was in very critical condition.

I do not know what happened to the unfortunate guy, if he eventually recovered.
ReWind
The crash happened at Le Mans on June 16th, 1990. Wolfgang Schütz survived.
There's a thorough account by Rainer Braun. I will type it - wait a minute.

Here it goes [taken from „25 Jahre Renault-elf-Pokal – Chronik eines Erfolgs“, 1998, p. 106]:
Die sportlichen Geschehnisse im Europa-Pokal werden überschattet durch den schweren Unfall von Wolfgang Schütz beim dritten Lauf am 16. Juni in Le Mans. Kurz nach der Startfreigabe kollidiert der Italiener Fabio Santaniello mit Larrauri, der Argentinier stellt sich sofort quer und reißt den unbeteiligten Deutschen mit. Beide biegen rechtwinklig ab und krachen in die Boxenmauer. Bei der anschließenden Massenkollision mit sechs weiteren Teilnehmern wird das Schütz-Auto voll in die Fahrerseite getroffen und bis zur Mitte zusammengestaucht. Ein aufflammendes Feuer kann zwar schnell gelöscht werden und ist nicht relevant für die schweren Kopfverletzungen, die Schütz durch einen harten Schlag gegen die Verstrebung des Überrollkäfigs erlitten hat.
Er wird bewußtlos in die Klinik von Tours eingeliefert und muß künstlich beatmet werden. Das betreuende Ärzteteam vermutet, daß am Unfallort sofortige Schockbehandlung und Sauerstoffbeatmung versäumt wurden.

Rolf Schmidt steht in ständigem Kontakt mit den Klinik-Ärzten, kann aber auch nicht viel tun, da der Patient nicht transportfähig ist. Heinz Becker kümmert sich vor Ort rührend um viele Dinge, um Wolfgangs Frau Marion so gut es eben geht zu entlasten. Nach einer Woche gibt es endlich Entwarnung, alle atmen erleichtert auf. Wolfgang hat das Schlimmste überstanden und kommt ganz langsam wieder zu sich. Er kann jetzt nach Deutschland verlegt werden, aber es steht noch ein langer Genesungsprozeß bevor.
Wolfgang Schütz erholt sich zwar im Laufe der Zeit von den Unfallfolgen, muß aber seine Rennfahrer-Karriere beenden. Als er sich nach langer Zeit erstmals wieder als interessierter Gast im Fahrerlager zeigt, wirkt er im Gespräch ernster und im Bewegungsablauf bedächtiger als vor seinem Unfall. Die Schütz-typischen Merkmale des schwäbischen Originals gibt es nicht mehr. Aber er ist wieder da, und er ist einigermaßen gesund. Das ist die Hauptsache.
Maybe someone else will find the time to do a summary in English.
eukie
Another text from Rainer Braun on Schütz, from 2001, once again in german:
http://www.dunlop.de/de/daten/motorsport/p...tz_wolfgang.pdf
bigears
I haver managed to contact Dave Scott as part of my Birmingham Superprix research.

His only F3000 appearance was a DNQ in his Peter Gethin Racing car at the Birmingham Superprix.

Thankfully, I have been aware of this thread and I have kindly asked him what happened after his brief F300 career and what he do now for a living.

He will reply in due course. smile.gif
Richie Jenkins
After a brief, but unavoidable delay, the latest updates are now on the WATN site - these updates were originally done in mid-December, so they won't reflect the most recent driver market moves, and the sad deaths of Stewart, Rolt & Harvey. That update will be coming shortly, probably around the time of the 1st GP of the F1 season.

But there's an awful lot in this one to keep some people happy!

2007/2008 Season
Alonso, Angelelli, Bourdais, Biagi, Boullion, Brawn, Briscoe, Bruni, Campos, Collard, A Costa, Dumas, da Matta, Doorbos, de Castro, C Fittipaldi, Fama, N Fry, Giroix, Gosselin, Glock, M Gene, Haywood, Hakkinen, Henzler, Hornish, Herbert, Herta, Hynes, Junqueira, Kinser, Kovalainen, Karthkeyian, Kristensen, J Kane, M Lauda, Lehto, Mallya, Mikola, Mutoh, Mol, McNish, Monteiro, Nielsen, K Nakajima, Pagenaud, Pescarolo, Pruett, Prost, Papis, Raikkonen, Rosa, Rydell, Roth, H J Stuck, Schneider, G Smith, Ro. Sperafico, Terrien, W Taylor, van der Poele, Wallace, Wurz, Wendlinger, Zonta

General WATN updates
Boesel, Cordts, Campeau, Castroneves, de Klerk, Frere, Bubby Jones, Knycz, Matsubara, Migeot, Nardozzi, Jim Stewart (written before his recent death), Dale Whittington, Zollner, Walther (more trouble, sadly frown.gif )

Deaths
Don Freeland, Jesse "Ebb" Rose

New Information
Amended or New Birthplaces for: G Congdon, J Larson, Rae

Death Places for: H Ormsby, Rae

FULL Birth & Death details for: Johnny Vance Sr.
FULL death details for: Hennerici
FULL birth details for: Gil Andersen (note spelling), Frank Elliott, Nino Frison (note spelling), Frazer-Nash, Headley, Matson, McDonogh, MacKenzie
FULL amended Birth & Death details for: Limberg
Partial birth details for: Hennerici, McCall, Robinson

NEW ENTRIES
Jay Howard, Nelson Piquet Jr.

OTHERS
The usual correction of spellings has been done, plus other formatting.
Switched the old CART to CCWS, where applicable. I had still been calling in CART even now, when it is now the CCWS. Old habits die hard....

THANKS
Rick Kelly (especially so, this month), Michael Ferner, Jim Thurman, Peter Higham, Mike Thomson, Frank Verplanken, Gabrici
percysgd
As one of Percy J. Ford's granddaughters, I'd like to post corrected birth and death dates for him. He was born in Chicago on March 15, 1888, and died in Kansas City, Missouri, on March 8, 1962. Thanks!
Richie Jenkins
Originally posted by percysgd
As one of Percy J. Ford's granddaughters, I'd like to post corrected birth and death dates for him. He was born in Chicago on March 15, 1888, and died in Kansas City, Missouri, on March 8, 1962. Thanks!


up.gif Thanks for this info - can you tell us a little a bit about what your grandfather did after racing, as I must admit I don't have an awful lot on him?
percysgd
When it comes to genealogy, I'm like you guys are with the subject of auto racing: where do we start, and why must we stop? But since my dad, Jim Ford, an amateur racer himself, didn't even meet Percy until my dad was going off to war in the 1940s and apparently didn't have any further contact with him afterwards, most of what I know about my grandfather has come from the Internet, and it's been mostly about his racing career.
His death certificate states that he was a salesman for Packard Motors, and the most recent census available, from 1930, indicates that he was a salesman for a motor company. By then he was living in Kansas City and was married to a woman named Julia, who had been an amateur golf champion, and I know that Percy played golf himself because that's what he was doing when my dad looked him up and met him.
My grandmother saved some newspaper clippings about Percy, but they all had to do with racing. I will continue to search for info about him and will let you know if I find anything that might interest the readers of this forum. Perhaps all he did was sell cars and play golf.
Oddly enough, racer John Cannon is also on my family tree, having been married to a descendant of David J. Behrendt, brother of my great-grandfather Arthur Behrendt. (See, I told you I don't know when to stop! biggrin.gif )
Richie Jenkins
Originally posted by percysgd
I will continue to search for info about him and will let you know if I find anything that might interest the readers of this forum. Perhaps all he did was sell cars and play golf.
Oddly enough, racer John Cannon is also on my family tree, having been married to a descendant of David J. Behrendt, brother of my great-grandfather Arthur Behrendt. (See, I told you I don't know when to stop! biggrin.gif )


Nowt wrong with only selling cars & playing golf! biggrin.gif

All the above is extremely interesting & should you find anymore, it'd be much appreciated. Thanks again.
rateus
Sad news from America - 6-time Indy 500 starter Jerry Karl died in a car accident on Saturday cry.gif

Full details can be found on www.trackforum.com nostalgia forum.
erkelly2
Re: BILL BOYD

Full name: William Myscal Boyd

Death date: 18 February 1984 [NOT December] (Source, California Death Index, 1940-1997.)

Death place: unknhown city, Los Angeles County, CA. SSDI says that Long Beach was his last residence, which is also in LA Co.

Birth date information is correct according to Kentucky Birth Index, 1911-1999.

BUT

Place of birth, Ballard County, KY, is 90 miles west of Muhlenberg County, the location of Drakesboro. Probably raised in Drakesboro, but born in Ballard County.

Rick Kelly
Oklahoma City, OK
kasey
RE Joachim Luthi

Came across this site and was looking at the where are they now items. It might interest some to know that Joachim Luthi was charged and convicted in the state of Arizona for distribution and possession of child pornography. He also per the F.B.I was here on an expired Swiss ID card and expired passport. He also was re portably connected to various frauds involving silver, gold and nanotechnology in California, Arizona and Nevada. Verification can be obtained, I am sure, through the FBI and the court case specified in this link. You can go to the az US court site for and see all the ensuing court appearances. I am sure of this as i was employed by a business partner who lost close to a million dollars partnering with him in some nano technology project.
http://www.azd.uscourts.gov/azd/callive.ns...41?OpenDocument
F3000man
Philippe Adams, belgian F1 driver.

Now he works as a sales manager for Seat in Tournai, Belgium. In August 2005, drove a Chevy Sedan in the Legends Master race in Zolder.
Richie Jenkins
Cheers for both the above info - Adams particulary so, because I was having a lot of trouble finding out what had happened to him recently. up.gif
fines
I love dragging up this thread! biggrin.gif

It's about Mel Kenealy and Johnny Kreiger, and the way their names are spelt - I've seen it done differently at times, but this had always been my accepted version. But now, I find numerous contemporary sources spelling them Keneally and Krieger, in fact they are pretty much consistently spelt that way. Can we perhaps nail it, once and for all?
Jim Thurman
Originally posted by fines
I love dragging up this thread! biggrin.gif

It's about Mel Kenealy and Johnny Kreiger, and the way their names are spelt - I've seen it done differently at times, but this had always been my accepted version. But now, I find [b]numerous
contemporary sources spelling them Keneally and Krieger, in fact they are pretty much consistently spelt that way. Can we perhaps nail it, once and for all? [/B]


I can help with one.

Both the California and SSDI have it Melvin Kenealy (BTW, b. May 17, 1903, d. June 29, 1985). I checked this last year when Don Radbruch queried frown.gif

Don asked as he was preparing a feature on Kenealy for National Speed Sport News (scroll down to the one on Mel Kenealy) :

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.com/feat...es-don-radbruch
Richie Jenkins
Originally posted by fines
I love dragging up this thread! biggrin.gif

It's about Mel Kenealy and Johnny Kreiger, and the way their names are spelt - I've seen it done differently at times, but this had always been my accepted version. But now, I find [b]numerous
contemporary sources spelling them Keneally and Krieger, in fact they are pretty much consistently spelt that way. Can we perhaps nail it, once and for all? [/B]


Already nailed.

The SSDI, the Californian Death Index, the 1930 Census, all spell it KREIGER.
fines
Thanks! smile.gif
Richie Jenkins
Latest updates are now up - quite unusual in this case as there are more WATN updates than biographical info, so for once, Reinhard & the others, no new information of that kind.

However, plenty of the other kind:

2007/2008 WATN
Albers, Bachelart, Barnard, R Byrne, Barron, Boldrini, T Bell, Caffi, Couceiro, Durand, Enge, Deletraz, del Monte, de Ferran, Duno, Erwin, Fisichella, Figge, L Foyt, Frentzen, Formato, S Fisher, Furlan, P Friesacher, Gilardi, Gianmaria, Gollin, M Gene, Gregoire, Hancock, Haberfeld, Ide, N Hattori, Hunter-Reay, Heveron, Jani, Kasemets, Kiesa, Krumma, Klien, Lopez, Lazzaro, Leinders, Legge, Manning, Mikola, C Montanari, S Mayer, McGarrity, Monfardini, Matsuura, McDowell, Martinez, Mazzacane, Morand, Martin J, Noda, S Nakajima, Piccini, Panis, Pantano, Plata, Power, D Richards, Ruberti, Rugolo, J Robinson, Ranger, Roth, B Rice, T Stewart, Shuman, Servia, S Sharp, Schneider, M & R Schumacher, Serra, Schie, Salazar, T Schecker, Stoddart, Scassellatti, Tredozi, Tracy, R Unser, Verstappen, Wurz, Wickham, Walfisch, Wirdheim, Mrks Winkelhock, Wiggins, Yamamoto

GENERAL WATN
Auinger, Adams, Alesi, Artam, Andre, B Ashmore, Boss, K Brack, J Brabham, Battistuzzi, Belmondo, Boesel, Cagle, Coughlan, F Coppuck, Danner, Earle, Favre, Fabre, D Gurney, Gabbiani, Giacomelli, Gloy, Hillesnburg, Heger, Helary, Hesketh, Alan Jenkins, Jabouille, Davy Jones, A Jones, K Johnson, B Jourdain, Kessler, Lanier, N Lauda, Minardi, McGehee, Roger Mears, Melgrati, T Marsh, Nearburg, Nguyen, Nichols, Nunn, Parsons, Pollock, Piquet Sr, Ralph, Rinland, J Rathmann, Rees, Spence R, Stromberger, J Unser, van Connett, van Rossem, Velay, J Villeneuve Sr, Walkinshaw, Whitesides, Warwick, Wilds, T wright, Zakowski

BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION
Ahmed - change of birthplace; I Burgess - revised birthplace; P Burgess - new birthplace, revised date of birth, B Boyd, death & birth place changed, date of death changed, P Ford, Date of birth & death changed (WATN added as well), Stockman changed birth date & place of death - all of these were reported in this thread or on this site.

DEATHS
5 sadly, as we well know, Frere, Harvey, Karl, Rolt & Jimmy Stewart. frown.gif

NEW ENTRIES
Perera

OTHER
Due to the IRL merging, it has rather inconvienently wink.gif meant a change round of current terms. So CCWS has become IRL, CART became CCWS etc, with all that updated. Likewise Busch & Nationwide....

THANKS
Mike Thomsen, Rick Kelly, Barry Boor, Jim Thurman, Raoul leDuke, "F3000 Man" & to the grand-daughter of Percy Ford.
fines
Frank Galvin is not on your list of Indy drivers, but should be (1915) - anyway, I need help from you "professionals" as I'm stuck in my research of his personal particulars. He is often described as an Irishman, and I've even seen him listed as German, but I believe this is all just the usual (for the times) humdrum "colour" that was dished out by race promoters. What I know is that his initials were J. F., and that he apparently came from Connecticut - he is mostly listed as living in New Milford or Hartford, and after his fatal accident it was reported that his body was being send back to relatives in New Milford, CT.

He was a well known bicycle racer, and apparently made quite a bit of money running Six-Days events. He's been quoted as riding since 1895, and the first mention I've found of him is from a road race in June 1900, so I'd guess he'd be born somewhere around 1880. A curious fact, one Six-Days promotion in 1908 listed 16 teams running under various names, like "French Team", "German-Holland Team", "Danish-Italian Team", "Australian Team" etc. I'm pretty sure most of the nationalities of the riders were fake anyway, but it's interesting to note that Galvin ran in the "Farmer and Messenger Boy Team"...

Later on he did appear in an "Irish Team", so that may be the source for one of the claims. Another may be a an extended tour of Germany and France that he apparently undertook in the summer of 1910, after which he took up flying and autoracing, but a year later he was again running Six-Days events - needing the money? A former pugilist himself, he took up boxing management, and in 1913 made another trip to Europe (3 months). Two years later he was announced as the third driver of the Peugeot team at Indy, a veteran of "47 six-day races in all parts of the world" and of "Scotch parentage, he is a naturalized German citizen, and would now be fighting for the Kaiser if there were any way to get back"! eek.gif

The Indy adventure was a short one, for on the second day of practicing he crashed his EX4 racer on May 8 and was "severly injured, and will probably die" - that was the usual headline in those days, but Galvin left the hospital nine days later. Anyway, the crash was widely blamed on the inexperience of the driver and he was out of racing for the rest of the year, apparently. Somehow he managed to get another top seat for 1916, however, and with the new 6-cylinder Sunbeam finished a surprising 5th in Chicago, to set out on a successful campaign which saw him finish 9th in the National Championship, and then die from the injuries sustained in the dreadful Uniontown desaster, "about noon" on December 4. frown.gif

So, will anybody take the baton, and run? cat.gif
Richie Jenkins
The 1900 census has a Frank Galvin of New Milford, CT, born 1881 & ALL the family are of Irish ancestry, with the father, Edward, being born in Ireland.
That's about as much as I can find so far.
fines
clap.gif

I'd guess you nailed him! up.gif
erkelly2
Re the shooting of Elmer George:

Guy Trolinger (one L, not two Ls) was released from all charges after a grand jury determined that the shooting of George was justifiable homicide after George burst into Trolinger's residence and started shooting.

Rick Kelly
Oklahoma City
Peter Horsman
Ian Ashley has now purchased Mac Hulbert's LDS Alfa, and races in HGPCA pre-66 events. Did rather well last weekend at Donington........
erkelly2
The nit picker appears from tornado alley -

Roger Frank McCluskey was born in 1930, not 1928.

Sources:

Does not appear in the Social Security Death Index.

Texas Birth Index, 1903-1997: Date of birth shown as 24 August 1930. Parents were Jack M. and Zelma Margerite, nee Porter.

1930 United States Federal Census show Jack and Zelma living in San Antonio, Texas (also known and Baja Oklahoma). No children living with them at the time of the Census report, dated 18 April 1930.

The New York Times article of 30 August 1993 is headlined: "Roger McCluskey, 63; Car-Racing Champion".

Even Wikipedia shows dob as 1930 (I do not use W as a reliable source).

Rick Kelly
Oklahoma City
Richie Jenkins
This again, was one I was advised to change from the original (correct) date. But fair's fair & I'll move him back to 1930. Cheers up.gif
Jim Thurman
I'm trying to find out exactly where this came from, and if I was instrumental in creating this error :\

Apologies for any role I had in this. Since it's not in the SSDI, I wonder exactly how I could have come up with it?...or even if I did confused.gif (sorry, that was during my protracted illness...not an excuse, but a big factor).

Again, sorry for any role I had in this one blush.gif
Richie Jenkins
I'm sure there was a number of people who said about 1928 - personally, this isn't a blame game we play anyway - I have got one driver's info (Peter Hahn, as it happens - he ain't from NJ & he ain't still alive) badly wrong, but when I confirm it soon, I'm not expecting Reinhard, or you, or Michael, or anyone else that uses my info to go "Oh, that bloody Jenkins - he's done it again!" blush.gif (Least I hope you lot don't lol.gif )

So, I'm certainly not blaming anyone with this, let alone you Jim, because I don't think you were responsible for a start.

But I do distinctly remember putting 1930 down & being told, no, no it's 1928. I actually think it was a normally very reliable historian (who shall go nameless) that said it too.... Story went that he fudged his age at start of his career & stuck with it, that I distinctly remember.
Jim Thurman
Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
But I do distinctly remember putting 1930 down & being told, no, no it's 1928. I actually think it was a normally very reliable historian (who shall go nameless) that said it too.... Story went that he fudged his age at start of his career & stuck with it, that I distinctly remember.


That sure sounds like me wink.gif blush.gif

Well, obviously McCluskey did fudge his age at the start of his career. That much is clear now. Perhaps that is where the 1928 came from - his "given" d.o.b.

I feel like I'm in the old Abbot & Costello routine "Third base!..." biggrin.gif

In the revived Disappeared into 'thin air' thread, you mentioned Jim McWithey. Still seeking him?

If so, drop me an e-mail or a pm.
indy500autographs
Sad to say Jim McWithey is not well in Florida after a stroke.

I have several "disappeared into thin air" Indy drivers

Dick Ferguson, Billy Scott, Carlos Guerrero, Brad Murphey, among others.
erkelly2
According to the World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918,

Joseph Crooke Dawson was born at Odon, Indiana, on 17 July 1889.

Dated 05 June 1917, Dawson was employed as an Automonile Experimental [illegible] at the Chalmere Motor Co. in Detroit, Michigan.

He was married.

- - - -

According to the 1920 U.S. Census, he was an automobile dealer in Baltimore, MD. Wife's given name was Jeanette.

According to the 1930 U.S. Census, he was a resident of Lower Marion, Montgomery County, PA. Wife of three years was named Helen M. He was an automobile service manager.

- - - -

Where did date of birth of 19 April 1889 come from?

Rick Kelly
Oklahoma City, OK
Richie Jenkins
Originally posted by erkelly2
According to the World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918,

Joseph Crooke Dawson was born at Odon, Indiana, on 17 July 1889.

Where did date of birth of 19 April 1889 come from?



From way back - it wasn't one I found, it was one that was in the public domain (ie Johnson's Indy 500, I suspect, but that's not to point fingers).

However I have checked with Donald Davidson on this matter & it is 17th July.
erkelly2
The Johnson page is not very reliable - if it can be found now. Several of its race "deaths" have been discovered to have happened decades later.

- - - -

Tommy Milton died on 10 July 1962, one day earlier than shown. Most of the newspaper reports were published on the 11th, with datelines of the 10th, "body was discovered today", at his home "near Mt. Clemens, Michigan". He was shot in the chest twice with a .22. Apparently he was in miserable health. He had arranged for his funeral before pulling the trigger - twice.

He was blind in one eye from early childhood. He was the first to win the Indy 500 twice, and was very successful on many types of tracks.

Rick Kelly
Oklahoma City
fines
Shot in the chest... twice???? Hmm, doesn't really sound like suicide... Strangely, I had the same feeling when I first read an account of the alleged suicide of Dave Lewis, in The Miller Dynasty :\
erkelly2
Who was it that said "Truth is stranger than fiction?

I would have been really suspicious if both shots were to the head.

A sad ending for a driver who was called "the Babe Ruth of auto racing".

- - - -

By coincidence I came across another sad ending.

Lora Lawrence Corum, called L. L. or "Slim", committed suicide.

Date of death should be 05 March, not 07 March. Dr. Joseph H. Jewett, deputy coroner, termed the death as suicide. The body was discovered by Corum's mother on Monday, 07 March. Dr. Jewett said Corum had been dead for ~48 hours before discovery. Corum had been in poor health for several years.

Corum is best remembered as the first driver to win the Indy 500 without driving the car at the finish. Joe Boyer relieved Corum from lap 112-200. The rules stated that the driver who started the car was to be the winner, even if the relief driver finished the race. At least he drove more than half the distance, and was running a creditable fourth place when he turned the car over to Boyer. I believe that this was a decision of the Duesenberg team.

The same thing happened in 1941, with Floyd Davis being declared the winner, even though Mauri Rose drove much more than half of the race as a relief driver.

Rick Kelly
Oklahoma City
Richie Jenkins
Add to that the recent discoveries that Billy Leisaw & John Vance Sr. also committed suicide, then there's quite a few Indy 500 drivers who died by their own hand. (Although in the above two cases, as well as Vance's (and possibly in Leisaw's) case, they were all hurrying up the inevitable.)
Racer.Demon
Please don't shoot the messenger, Richie, but I was asked by one of Carel Godin de Beaufort's best friends at the time why Carel only gets one line in his WATN profile...

I replied that WATN focuses on what (retired) drivers are doing these days, which in the case of those who paid the ultimate price sadly isn't really much. But is it 'standard WATN policy' to keep to the single 'Killed etc...' line in those cases?
Richie Jenkins
Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Please don't shoot the messenger, Richie, but I was asked by one of Carel Godin de Beaufort's best friends at the time why Carel only gets one line in his WATN profile...

I replied that WATN focuses on what (retired) drivers are doing these days, which in the case of those who paid the ultimate price sadly isn't really much. But is it 'standard WATN policy' to keep to the single 'Killed etc...' line in those cases?


As it happens, this is something that has (and is) being looked at. Allen brought it up that, even though there are some people without any information (mainly due to being utterly obscure), others are left blank, but have more relevant biographical information to those still alive, for eample.

Paul Emery, for example, I scandalously had nothing for. This has been amended, but with about 250 gaps to fill (and some of them quite full lives), it will take a while.

Initially, though, my thinking was along the lines of "there are enough sites/books about what people were like/did - I don't need to add to that" and, somewhat, I still believe that this is the case - information about C G d B can be found in many places. Those in the know don't need me to add to what they already know

But, on the other hand, some great characters & lives are being blotted out by either dying young, or simply being long dead, and for those NOT in the know & visting the site to learn more, they learn nothing. Although I'll hardly produce a full biography, I might stretch to a few lines (maybe three at most) for some of the more notable, but tragic people on the list - if all goes well, I aim for this by October/November time.
Racer.Demon
Excellent, Richie, I agree that anything above three lines would be outside of WATN's scope. I really like its snappy, condensed form.

Or you could just link to some of those sites that tell about what people were like/did... Or is it against orc.com policy to include outside links? wink.gif
Jim Thurman
Richie, I would make the same suggestion in adding a simple line or two to some of the U.S. drivers (some quite obscure) that lived lengthy post-racing lives...though I realize that information can sometimes be difficult to find.

Some of them, it's been difficult enough to find anything much on their racing careers, let alone what they did afterwards :\
Richie Jenkins
Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Or you could just link to some of those sites that tell about what people were like/did... Or is it against orc.com policy to include outside links? wink.gif


Disgraceful suggestion lol.gif
It's probably difficult as most of what I type is via database & doesn't allow for that many links - but see what Allen says.
Allen Brown
No policy against it - it's just a matter of Richard and I finding an easy way to do it.

(not sure I have any policies)

Allen
fines
I have this sort of "lying around on my desk", so to "get it off my chest" here goes:

- Joe Thomas at Indy in 1931: like everyone else, presumably, I had assumed this to be the former board track star on a one-off comeback drive, but recent findings have made me reconsider. I have only a photocopy of a very small picture to go by, but I am sure this isn't the California Joe Thomas. Reason for the investigation in the first place was my finding of a Joe Thomas of Hammond (IN) as an entry for the June 14 Wisconsin State Fair Park race in 1931, which was apparently a AAA/IMCA co-sanction - yes, of all things!

I remembered reading about the board track Joe Thomas that he retired to live in Fresno (CA) for the rest of his life, so this didn't sound like being him. Of course, he still could have relocated and stranger things have certainly happened, but the photograph check has me now convinced. Unfortunately, so far I wasn't able to find out more, and now my question is: can someone of you "professionals" take this titbit of information and run with it?

- Barney McKenna: in the course of my Joe Thomas investigations I tripped over some interesting info about McKenna, who drove the same car one year later (hence my interest). He is also generally listed as living in Hammond (IN), and was apparently quite active on the Midwestern Fair circuit of the IMCA in the twenties and early thirties. By 1933 he was retired as a racing driver and began appearing regularly in newspaper accounts of traffic accidents!

Apparently, DUI was most often the cause for these accidents, and unfortunately one of these accidents caused the death of a young boy (variously reported as 11, 12 and 14 years old) who was trying (unsuccessfully) to save his pet dog from being run over by Barney. frown.gif Ironically, a pet dog was the center of another newspaper report that had McKenna refusing to go to gaol (on account of imbibing, it was said) without the animal, which he allegedly loved more than his wife, who duly filed a divorce some time later. Not all lives are glamorous...

- Francis Quinn: DUI is the cue for me to remember a recent investigation into the circumstances of Quinn's fatal accident - somehow I had it in my mind that he was hit by a lorry in the night after turning around halfway on a trip to a rained-out race at Oakland. Turns out I had several "half facts" mixed up: for one thing, Quinn and his entourage (which included racing mechanic Claude French, and AAA official Art Pillsbury in another car) had gone all the way to Oakland, and in fact started off on the return trip rather late in the afternoon, with the accident happening around 6:30 pm - I guess that's dusk in mid-winter, even in So. Cal.?

Anyway, the driver of the other vehicle was indeed a truck driver by profession, but, this being a Sunday, he was driving a road car. From reading the reports of eyewitnesses and the police, it seems clear that the driver was DUI, but, like McKenna, he was later acquitted - different times, one gathers. No one was hurt much in the accident, except for Quinn, but French (and Pillsbury?) tried to sue the driver for damages, results unknown.
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