NASCAR snubs roots

Well the Southern 500 is being moved. In what they are calling 'schedule modernisation" the traditional Labor Day date of the fall Darlington race is being moved to November 14th so that Fontana *blegch* can get a second date (at night) on Labor day weekend.


There's been a surprising lack of outrage in the racing world which I find odd. There's been more stink over the lack of tradition in allowing in Toyota than in moving around one of their foundation races. It'd be like moving Indy. You simply do not move events where they are as synonymous with their date as the track and series that runs them.


Im so sick of these D-Shaped high banked ovals, and multiple races at the same track. There's allways talk the schedule is too big as it is, so instead of having 36 races at 25 tracks or whatever, why not have 30 races at 30 tracks? Why two Fontana's when you can go to Portland and open up the NW market, or Kentucky or Nashville or any of the othre tracks dying for an event and have had awesome Busch races?

Can't say I understand it either. I don't think you should mess with the roots of that sport. I can't claim to be a Nascar fan per se, but the short track races are a treat to watch.

I think they should move Busch and Truck races to the other venues to the new tracks and make some new traditions.

I think moving the Southern 500 is a bad idea too for traditional reasons and I also cannot see the logic behind giving Fontana a second date when there are other regions of the US that could use it to help grow the sport. However, NASCAR is not totally in the dark on these issues. They do utilize demographic data from tickets sales at their other tracks to determine good areas for a Cup date or additional Cup date. This is why ISC built a Speedway in my area, Kansas City, and why we got a Winston Cup date because so many ticket sales to the Daytona 500, Pepsi 400, Talladega Cup races, etc. were from Kansas Citians or people from nearby areas. NASCAR probably has info that people from Portland or Seattle areas go to Fontana or Sears Point for Winston Cup events and road races for NASCAR are less profitable than superspeedway events.

Three words - Los Angeles market.

But, I agree about sacrificing history for sake of marketing. Then again NASCAR is more about marketing than racing...and has been for close to a decade now, so I can understand the lack of outrage. It's even less surprising when you consider the newby fans that NASCAR sought and attracted don't have the attachment or deep sense of history as the long-time fans that they don't seem to care about.

Southern California supported three NASCAR GN races for more than 12 years, so there's a history there as well (though the June Riverside date rarely had the crowds the January date did - before dropping January in favor of taking Ontario's November date). All of this even pre-dates "the modern era" Dick Berggren often pointed to the final Ontario race as an example of how much the sport grew, but that's toe-ing the company line as gale force winds kept the attendance down. Riverside and OMS had far better crowds years *before* the OMS finale. Selective statistics on Berggren's part (I notice he never used any of the crowd figures for the final 8 years at Riverside ).

There's no way NASCAR wants another road race (which is too bad IMO). I'm sure they'd love to be in the Northwest...but only if it was on a superspeedway, and I'm not aware of any being on the horizon (and IMO, it's not bloody likely either). And obviously, Portland and Seattle aren't nearly as important markets to NASCAR and it's advertisers.

And don't overlook television's role. Perhaps Labor Day was the only spot on the schedule they could attract NBC to place the race in prime time.

I'm with you Ross, boring tracks, boring races. Bruton Smith's "McTrack" design being the pinnacle.

NASCAR gave up on tradition a long time ago...


Jim Thurman

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SOUNDS LIKE THE ALMIGHTY $$$$$$$$$$$$ WIN,S AGAIN .HEY WHAT,S NEW

Quote from ehagar;
I think they should move Busch and Truck races to the other venues to the new tracks and make some new traditions.

Quote from;Jim Thurman
There's no way NASCAR wants another road race (which is too bad IMO).

Maybe they ought use the Truck or Busch on the Road courses. It certainly would be different!
M.L. Anderson

No one can say we weren't warned. Recall that something along these lines were floated earlier this year. When the hue and cry didn't develop, it was California Here We Come and see 'ya Rockingham....

Of course, the reason that NASCAR has been successful is that it has few qualms about doing what is best for business. Unlike most series out there, NASCAR is booming and the others aren't. However, let us not deceive ourselves that history is very important in motorsports. Most series pay lip service at most to Clio, but rarely does history stand in the way of a business decision. Indeed, it seems that an eye on history is often the flaw which can be fatal or at least very damaging when business operations are involved......

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld

Im so sick of these D-Shaped high banked ovals, and multiple races at the same track. There's allways talk the schedule is too big as it is, so instead of having 36 races at 25 tracks or whatever, why not have 30 races at 30 tracks? Why two Fontana's when you can go to Portland and open up the NW market, or Kentucky or Nashville or any of the othre tracks dying for an event and have had awesome Busch races?

Originally posted by Don Capps
No one can say we weren't warned. Recall that something along these lines were floated earlier this year. When the hue and cry didn't develop, it was California Here We Come and see 'ya Rockingham....

Of course, the reason that NASCAR has been successful is that it has few qualms about doing what is best for business. Unlike most series out there, NASCAR is booming and the others aren't. However, let us not deceive ourselves that history is very important in motorsports. Most series pay lip service at most to Clio, but rarely does history stand in the way of a business decision. Indeed, it seems that an eye on history is often the flaw which can be fatal or at least very damaging when business operations are involved......

But the Labor Day Southern 500 wasnt historic, at least not until the Friday announcement; it was very much apart of NASCAR.

As someone who lived for many years near Darlington and attended many a Southern 500, I am not a happy camper about this in any way, shape, or form.

That being ahistorical is good for business is not exactly an accolade in my book....

I wonder if this isn't an attempt by NASCAR to escape its Southern image. Think about it, NASCAR races on three major holiday weekends each year: Memorial Day at Charlotte, North Carolina; Fourth of July at Daytona, Florida; and Labor Day at Darlington, South Carolina. These weekends probably have higher viewership than your average race weekend so when Joe American turns on the tube and sees the same races on Southern circuits, it reenforces the NASCAR Southern stereotype.

And if you are Joe Blow who has trouble getting time off from work, the three day holiday weekends would be your best bet for attending a race. If you live on the west coast with all of these holiday events being in the Southern portion of the U.S., it makes driving to an event pretty much out of the question and airfares are higher.

But what about the other arguement... that the wealth of your sport is based on TV ratings. I don't know about you guys, but the most entertaining racetracks in Nascar aren't thse stupid 1.5-2 mile cookie cutter ovals. What was that race with the smash at the line? Watching the tyre wear and cars step out lap after lap made this non-Nascar fan watch the whole friggin race.

Darlington

Go figure :

Its the NFL's fault. Until they get a franchise back in LA, these things are liable to happen. The greed of NASCAR far, far exceeds anything anywhere even F1!

Originally posted by Joe Fan
I wonder if this isn't an attempt by NASCAR to escape its Southern image. Think about it, NASCAR races on three major holiday weekends each year: Memorial Day at Charlotte, North Carolina; Fourth of July at Daytona, Florida; and Labor Day at Darlington, South Carolina. These weekends probably have higher viewership than your average race weekend so when Joe American turns on the tube and sees the same races on Southern circuits, it reenforces the NASCAR Southern stereotype.

NASCAR gaining wider exposure has accomplished two things...

Have the stereotypes re-inforced more incessantly and more often than ever before.

And convince the ignorant that NASCAR is the *only* form of racing. It's all NASCAR. Gil DeFerran...NASCAR driver.

Around 20 years ago, sportscasters and sportswriters used to label NASCAR races as "Indy" races, now it's the other way around. Ahhh, progress!. You know, when one considers the wretched coverage motorsports receives in the U.S. media, it's a wonder anyone becomes a racing fan. I guess the *right* people become fans, they have to seek it out.

NASCAR could put a quick end to these stereotypes (slander and libel come to mind), but then they wouldn't be "media friendly" and we'd have to hear the wailings over "freedom of speech" They'd much rather promote the crashes, cater to the media and take the cash.


Jim Thurman

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Its the NFL's fault. Until they get a franchise back in LA, these things are liable to happen. The greed of NASCAR far, far exceeds anything anywhere even F1!

David,

Reminds me of a conversation my brother and I had over dinner a few years ago. We were discussing our alienation with NASCAR. I pointed out some of the things they do that I simply couldn't support, and yet, I couldn't understand why I still followed F1.

He said: "They're just as greedy, but at least they're honest about it."



Jim Thurman

On several sports reports I've heard on the radio this morning, they've mentioned how NASCAR is "replacing a cigarette company with an electronics company," from the context it seemed to me they were suggesting that NASCAR was trying to disassociate itself from tobacco, which kind of fits what Joe was suggesting above.....

So will the Cup become the "Nextel Ring?"

Thats more to do with the impending tobacco bans more than anything else.

Isnt it going to be the Visa Cup?

Ross, what makes you think people arent upset about this? From what I can tell, there is definately alot of fans who didnt want to see this happen. Its also been brewing for quite awhile, so it is no big shock.

I cant say I agree with it, but Joe Fan brings up a good point about NASCAR trying to change their image, and what better way than having the Labor Day race at Fontana. Its sad, but it happens. Im more disappointed that they will only be gong to Darlington once now.

NASCAR seems to be the lazy mans (The fans that is) answer to motor racing. The whole race can be watched from one spot etc, etc. But then thats good marketing at work. It fits in with tennis, ball games and now golf (cough, hawk, spit).

I live on a piss-pot little island off Vancouver. For 5 years (no kidding!) I lobbied the local cable company to get Speedvision on our cable lineup. I had responses such as "We're sorry sir, we don't carry extreme sports"!(Imagine Lilley Tomlin saying that line and you get the picture). Finally after threatening to get a satellite dish they agreed to my demands; I got Speed! Only in the meantime NASCAR had taken over the channel so now most of the time all I get is a group of guys sitting in a circle talking in funny accents! I was looking forward to historical stuff....

Last night was an exception, I'm probably way behind on this but they had J.P. Montoya and Jeff Gordon swap cars at Indianapolis Speedway. Gordon seemed to do very well indeed-only about a second and a half off qualifying for the GP. A racer, is a racer, is a racer. Interesting stuff.

Perhaps NASCAR type events are the future of motor racing. Easy tv coverage. relatively safe, cars can be kept close together, hard for spectators to sneak into etc, etc etc. But jeez, I hope I'm wrong.

Originally posted by Mat
Isnt it going to be the Visa Cup?

Ross, what makes you think people arent upset about this? From what I can tell, there is definately alot of fans who didnt want to see this happen. Its also been brewing for quite awhile, so it is no big shock.

If they are NASCAR is doing a standup job of keeping it quiet

Originally posted by marion5drsn
Maybe they ought use the Truck or Busch on the Road courses. It certainly would be different!
M.L. Anderson

Well, the Busch series used to run at Myrtle Beach, which was a pretty tight short track. And the Truck series used to run the road course at Topeka. Both were fun races to watch on TV.

NASCAR seems content to standardize all of their tracks to the 1.5 mile high banked D-shape oval and ISC and Bruton Smith are more than happy to keep building them.

Quite honestly, the IRL is almost as much to blame as NASCAR in all of this. The NASCAR schedule is packed. There is no room for any more races. If a new track can manage to pry its way into the schedule, there is virtually no way that their getting TWO dates on the schedule. And a track needs more than one weekend a year to stay in business. Plus, you can't even think about putting in less than 50,000 seats (100,000+ is more realistic). Therefore, you've got to add things like an IRL race (or build an infield road course) to better utilize the track. Not that the IRL can ever seem to draw more than 20,000. You're not going to find anybody willing to build a 1/2 mile short track or anything as quirky as Darlington anymore.

As sad as it is to see the Southern 500 go away, I can see NASCAR's point-of-view. It's fair to say that the L.A. area has just a few more people than the Florence-Darlington area. And Darlington is only a couple of hours away from Rockingham and Charlotte. It's within driving distance of Atlanta, Bristol, and probably a few more). The area already has a high concentration of races. And I believe that Darlington has difficulty selling out.

It's unfortunate that a "driver's track" like Darlington has to lose out to a "gas-and-go track" like Fontana.

It will be interesting to see what the TV ratings do. I find it hard to stay awake watching these superspeedway races. The only action is when there's a wreck, when there's a round of pit stops, or when there's 20 laps to go.

I just reread my post above and realise it does not have the tone that I intended at all. I apologise if I offended any NASCAR fans.

I watch NASCAR occasionally and enjoy it. It must be incredible to watch live. What I was concerned about was if ALL racing became like NASCAR. If the marketing guys have their say that is, I think, what would happen.

And I think they should show more racing and less talking on Speed Channel.

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


If they are NASCAR is doing a standup job of keeping it quiet

Well they certainly have the commentary crew towing the company line. It's amazing what those guys willsay to back up NASCAR. When they were showing Schraders big crash over and over again during the clean up, Darryl Waltrip goes, "look how safe these cars are, notice how the flames are kept well away from the inside of the cockpit". Meanwhile, the whole car is in flames!

The thing I dont get is Darlingotn has two dates. Why not give up the spring date which really has no value. Its not an 'anchor' race of any importance. Granted Fontana #1 is in the spring too, but better shuffling could have kept the Southern 500 on Labor day.

Fontana sucks btw, but all they want to do is bank the planet. Hell they're adding high banking to Phoenix and Homestead! Give it 5 years and there wont be a flat oval left for OW to run on.

Oh come now Ross. What's wrong with those wonderful dinky little in-field road courses like Indy and Daytona?;)

Neil

they're infield road courses and not ovals?

Originally posted by Mat


Well they certainly have the commentary crew towing the company line. It's amazing what those guys willsay to back up NASCAR. When they were showing Schraders big crash over and over again during the clean up, Darryl Waltrip goes, "look how safe these cars are, notice how the flames are kept well away from the inside of the cockpit". Meanwhile, the whole car is in flames!

Following ESPN's lead of company line-ism. Other than when Schrader spun backwards (much like what happened with Sterling Marling at Bristol in the early 90's), the flames did stay out of the cockpit. Now, Ryan Newman's was a different issue entirely. What gets me is I constantly hear race announcers and commentators point out the safety features of the cars and safety precautions being the reason for time consuming rescue efforts...but they don't need to tell us, the fans, they need to tell the screaming, yammering yokels that are local sportscasters.

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
The thing I dont get is Darlingotn has two dates. Why not give up the spring date which really has no value. Its not an 'anchor' race of any importance. Granted Fontana #1 is in the spring too, but better shuffling could have kept the Southern 500 on Labor day.

Fontana sucks btw, but all they want to do is bank the planet. Hell they're adding high banking to Phoenix and Homestead! Give it 5 years and there wont be a flat oval left for OW to run on.

Exactly, the Spring race at Darlington, though also a long time fixture, isn't of the same signifigance. But, then NASCAR (and likely NBC and it's advertisers) want the Labor Day date, so it wouldn't have made any difference.

As far as the last passage, I hadn't heard about Phoenix...but what makes you think that wasn't the idea in the first place?

No one ever mentions the funds France Jr. funnelled into the IRL, or the meetings with Tony George. How come no one even broaches the thought that NASCAR was attempting to de-stabilize CART? I mean c'mon, they tried to buy IMSA, they tried to buy USAC, they did buy out a couple of smaller touring Stock Car associations. These are not the actions of a group that believes there's plenty of the racing pie to go around. Corporate raiders is more like it.

Yeah, yeah...I know, throw out all the CART stability jokes you want, but remember when this money exchange happened what the landscape was like. Even with that Clabber Girl fortune and the money made from the '500', you think TG could have done this entirely on his own?

Of course I can answer my own questions about why it isn't brought up. Some in the racing media are busy either following the company line, lambasting CART (or the IRL) and some of them are as clueless as the "regular" sports media, which isn't capable of putting together anything on racing short of "the cars go fast and people get killed all the time."


Jim Thurman

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
Now, Ryan Newman's was a different issue entirely.

Jim Thurman

Im assuming you mean Dale Jarret? I thought both incidents at Pocono were pretty. They certainly didnt merit any 'see how safe our cars are' comments. I thought it was very ironic that during the Winston Special a few weeks ago and there was a big multi-car crash late in the race. There was footage of Bill Elliot limping out of the car with a broken foot and the commentators are using it as proof these cars are fantastically safe.

Im not here to turn this into a NASCAR safety bash. I agree Ross, when I first heard about the possibility of Darlington losing one of its dates I would have thought it would make much more sense to lose the lesser date. But I guess the crux of it is that Labor Day weekend is a big weekend, and they dont see the need in using it in the Southern States. I would much prefer them swap the Winston Special to another track, that would be more suitable instead of having 3 races at Charlotte.

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
they're infield road courses and not ovals?

Yeh, I know. Sorry, it was meant to be a joke - didn't work too well obviously. Anyways, the basis was those banked ovals have courses for OW racing. They just happen to be crap courses.

Oh well, nothing to see here. Move along now.

Neil

Originally posted by Mat


Well they certainly have the commentary crew towing the company line. It's amazing what those guys willsay to back up NASCAR. When they were showing Schraders big crash over and over again during the clean up, Darryl Waltrip goes, "look how safe these cars are, notice how the flames are kept well away from the inside of the cockpit". Meanwhile, the whole car is in flames!

The biggest joke of all is they say how safe the cars are as they race back to the line... that rule HAS to go.

Originally posted by Mat


Im assuming you mean Dale Jarret? I thought both incidents at Pocono were pretty. They certainly didnt merit any 'see how safe our cars are' comments. I thought it was very ironic that during the Winston Special a few weeks ago and there was a big multi-car crash late in the race. There was footage of Bill Elliot limping out of the car with a broken foot and the commentators are using it as proof these cars are fantastically safe.

Im not here to turn this into a NASCAR safety bash.

No, I was referring to Ryan Newman's blown engine and resultant fire the next week at Michigan.

I agree that they oversell "how safe", but it's an even more hypocritcal constrast when the same networks spewing that line make the video available for satellite uplink where it finds it way to local sportscasters around the country who take incidents far less signifigant and exaggerate them terribly...so imagine what they do when an accident is signifigant.

And a NASCAR safety bash could go on a bit, and be a legitimate discussion.

I also like the idea of moving the third Charlotte date, but again, the Labor Day date is what NASCAR, and I'm quite sure - TV, wanted. Every other move is moot with that being the true issue.


Jim Thurman

Saw this today and thought this might be the only current thread to place the material. Interesting reading.

Henry


Lloyd Moore – racked up one win, 13 Top 5s, and 23 Top 10s in a five-year career in Strictly Stock – better known today as the Nextel Cup series.

Western New York state resident Lloyd Moore is the last of the ‘49ers.

Not the gold-rush ‘49ers – at age 95, Moore is about a hundred years too young for that.

Nevertheless, Moore is a pioneer of sorts. He raced cars in the Strictly Stock series – predecessor of modern-day NASCAR – in its very first year of competitive racing.

Talking with Lloyd Moore is like chatting with your grandpa or a long-time neighbor. He instantly puts you at ease with his friendly manner and makes you feel like a member of the family.

Despite the passage of time – over half a century since he first took to the track – Moore’s memory is crystal clear as he recalls the series of events that led to his start as a race car driver.

“Of course, we had jalopies around here,” he said of his humble beginnings. Lloyd was working as a garage mechanic and racing jalopies on local dirt tracks when a nearby resident asked him for a favor. “Bill Rexford wanted to borrow my helmet, and I asked him what he was going to do, and he said he was going to drive for Julian Buesink in NASCAR.”

Buesink owned a car dealership in the area and was preparing to launch a NASCAR team. “Well, that was a good start,” recalls Moore. “I was working at the Studebaker garage in Jamestown. Julian had a used car lot up the street. One noon hour, I walked over there and Julian’s brother-in-law was there, and I told him to tell Julian to stop down at the garage sometime. Just a couple of days later, he comes wheeling in and he says, ‘I hear you want to drive a race car,’ and I said, ‘Yeah, I do.’”

Julian told Lloyd that he was getting ready to field cars at an upcoming race in Pennsylvania. “They were going to Heidelberg (PA), and he said, ‘If you want to drive, that’s a good place to try it.’ So we drove down there and tried to qualify, but the car wasn’t exactly what it should be. I got in the race and it went along pretty good. When it was all over, I took sixth place.”

That race was the seventh race of the inaugural Strictly Stock season in 1949, making Lloyd the oldest living former NASCAR driver in the world.

With a bit of a chuckle, Lloyd adds that he was victim of “one of the worst things that could have happened” in his first NASCAR race: “A woman beat me out by one spot.”

Indeed, Sara Christian finished the Heidelberg race in fifth, one position ahead of Lloyd. The winner that day was a young driver whose name also might be familiar – Lee Petty, father of Richard and grandfather of Kyle. Moore remembers him as the best driver he ever competed against. “There were a number of good drivers, but Lee Petty is the one I kind of looked up to.”

Lloyd Moore was 37 years old when he started competing, a farm owner and father of a young family that eventually grew to include six daughters. But he had been bitten by the racing bug and was determined to compete as often as the constraints of time, money, and responsibilities back home would allow. “I went on to race at a number of different tracks in the north here, through the central states, and in Florida,” Moore said. “I wound up down there at Daytona Beach and at a number of race tracks throughout the state.”

Racing off and on for the next several years, Moore competed in a total of 49 Strictly Stock and Grand National events, earning 13 Top 5s, 23 Top 10s, and one victory. His lone win came on October 15, 1950, at Funk’s Speedway in Winchester, Indiana; at the time, Lloyd was driving a 1950 Mercury owned by Buesink.

“We did a lot of traveling,” said Moore. “We did night traveling as well as daytime. But we drove our cars to the track. Now, they have big vans that haul all the cars. We used to drive our cars and they had the number on the side, and that wasn’t too good if you passed a police officer,” he laughed.

Eventually, the balancing act between racing and family demands became too hard to sustain, and Moore was forced to hang up his helmet for good. “I started in about 1950, and I had about five years of it. I had a big family, and we lived on a farm with animals, so I couldn’t spare myself,” said Moore, who still lives in the Frewsburg, New York, house that his father built in the 1890s. “I had too many things going on here. At the end of five years, I just called it quits.”

Of course, it wasn’t as financially feasible then, either; being a race car driver didn’t pay much in the early days, especially when compared to today’s purses. The idea of a pension plan for drivers has been bandied about for years…but Moore is not a supporter. “When a driver gets what they get for one of those races (today), I don’t know that it’s necessary to have a pension plan. When they can get a million bucks for a win, that’s a lot of dough, especially compared to what I got.”

Moore chats with Lee Petty before the Daytona Beach road course race in 1950. Another difference between racing fifty years ago and today is the cost and availability of gasoline and other natural resources – a topic which Moore thinks about often. “As far as the gas situation, why waste all the gasoline and the tires and everything when some people can’t even afford transportation?” he wonders. “But, I don’t think they would cancel any of the races on that account.”

Like any race fan – especially one whose involvement in NASCAR dates back to the beginning – Lloyd has his favorite and not-so-favorite drivers. “Anybody that drives a Ford, I’ll go along with that,” says the lifelong Ford fancier. “Carl Edwards, I think, is an all-around jolly person. He’s good for the sport. I like to see when he wins a race, he’s really happy.” And the back flip? “There’s nothing like it. I get a kick out of that. I kind of go for that.”

On the other hand, Lloyd has reservations about some of today’s biggest NASCAR stars. “Something I don’t really get into is Junior,” he said, noting, “He’s had a lot of family trouble. I’m not really a fan of Jeff Gordon either, but he’s done good and he’s in a good position for the ‘shoot-out’, you might say.” And Tony Stewart? “I think if he’d race more with his hands and feet than he does with his mouth, he might get somewhere,” Moore quipped.

The world’s oldest living NASCAR driver also has a bit of advice for the guys in charge of the sport. “I’m just a teeny bit disappointed in NASCAR,” he admits, “the way they’ve played it like Hollywood. If I had charge of it, I would make each driver put on a plain suit. They’ve got advertising on their cars – why do they need it all over their clothes? It looks kind of silly to me. I guess maybe the fans like it, but I don’t. They don’t need to decorate themselves up like Christmas trees.”

Moore also voiced concerns about the way races are broadcast on TV these days: “There’s too much monkeying around before the race. They schedule a race for three o’clock, and when you turn it on, you get a whole hour of just baloney. I guess they have to have a certain amount of advertising, but an hour of it before a race – that’s too much.”

“But it’s a good sport,” he continued. “I watch it. We have television. Well, I’ll watch maybe the first ten laps, and then the sandman comes,” he laughs. “I don’t like the long races. You can go take a shower and wash your feet and come back and it’s still the same.”

Hey, NASCAR, is anyone listening?

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
“As far as the gas situation, why waste all the gasoline and the tires and everything when some people can’t even afford transportation?” he wonders. “But, I don’t think they would cancel any of the races on that account.”

Like any race fan – especially one whose involvement in NASCAR dates back to the beginning – Lloyd has his favorite and not-so-favorite drivers. “Anybody that drives a Ford, I’ll go along with that,” says the lifelong Ford fancier. “Carl Edwards, I think, is an all-around jolly person. He’s good for the sport. I like to see when he wins a race, he’s really happy.” And the back flip? “There’s nothing like it. I get a kick out of that. I kind of go for that.”

On the other hand, Lloyd has reservations about some of today’s biggest NASCAR stars. “Something I don’t really get into is Junior,” he said, noting, “He’s had a lot of family trouble. I’m not really a fan of Jeff Gordon either, but he’s done good and he’s in a good position for the ‘shoot-out’, you might say.” And Tony Stewart? “I think if he’d race more with his hands and feet than he does with his mouth, he might get somewhere,” Moore quipped.

The world’s oldest living NASCAR driver also has a bit of advice for the guys in charge of the sport. “I’m just a teeny bit disappointed in NASCAR,” he admits, “the way they’ve played it like Hollywood. If I had charge of it, I would make each driver put on a plain suit. They’ve got advertising on their cars – why do they need it all over their clothes? It looks kind of silly to me. I guess maybe the fans like it, but I don’t. They don’t need to decorate themselves up like Christmas trees.”

Moore also voiced concerns about the way races are broadcast on TV these days: “There’s too much monkeying around before the race. They schedule a race for three o’clock, and when you turn it on, you get a whole hour of just baloney. I guess they have to have a certain amount of advertising, but an hour of it before a race – that’s too much.”

“But it’s a good sport,” he continued. “I watch it. We have television. Well, I’ll watch maybe the first ten laps, and then the sandman comes,” he laughs. “I don’t like the long races. You can go take a shower and wash your feet and come back and it’s still the same.”

Hey, NASCAR, is anyone listening?

Why would anyone listen? His regrets are what comprise the success of the series. Drive away the sponsors, shorten the races, dial back the commercial aspects of the tv package....and you have any of those stock car series where drivers prove themselves and there isn't any national TV coverage. Nextel Cup is the top series because of the things he doesn't like. I enjoy commercial breaks and driver's spewing sponsor lists as little as anyone, but that is the price of success. NASCAR may use gas and tires, but several thousand families CAN afford tires and gas because of the intense commercialism of the sport.

Originally posted by Todd


Why would anyone listen? His regrets are what comprise the success of the series. Drive away the sponsors, shorten the races, dial back the commercial aspects of the tv package....and you have any of those stock car series where drivers prove themselves and there isn't any national TV coverage. Nextel Cup is the top series because of the things he doesn't like. I enjoy commercial breaks and driver's spewing sponsor lists as little as anyone, but that is the price of success. NASCAR may use gas and tires, but several thousand families CAN afford tires and gas because of the intense commercialism of the sport.

If his regrets are what drives NASCAR then the fans are morons, and the series is pathetic greed based dung
dumbed down but the lemmings keep coming.
As a leading Democrat said when Billy Clinton was running for president, "America is as dumb as ****, and getting dumber every day."

Originally posted by Bob Riebe


If his regrets are what drives NASCAR then the fans are morons, and the series is pathetic greed based dung
dumbed down but the lemmings keep coming.
As a leading Democrat said when Billy Clinton was running for president, "America is as dumb as ****, and getting dumber every day."

I'm not convinced. His complaints stem very closely from the success of the sport. If he wants to watch guys without sponsorship racing with cars they built in the gas stations they work in, then all he needs to do is visit his local dirt oval. Maybe if the fans were the morons, he'd have said he enjoyed local Friday night short track action instead of attacking the things that make NASCAR Nextel Cup big business. And this is coming from someone who appreciated Bill Clinton taking Arkansas from 47th to 49th in standard of living during his tenure as governor and asked if he was elected because the guy from West Virginia wasn't available.